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Author Topic: NFL Playoffs 2016  (Read 7938 times)
sickrubik
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Reply #210 on: February 09, 2016, 11:24:40 AM

Brady is a very very very special case. He takes paycuts all the time. Reminder, his wife is worth a helluva lot more than he is, so he can afford to do that.

Peyton is very likely going to retire. Everything seems to point towards that. Unfortunately, Osweiler could easily fetch 12-15M someplace else. We could very easily find ourselves in a situation where we have no QB orhter than Trevor Siemian, who they do like. Honestly, what I would like to see is a trade/situation where someone like Matthew Stafford is available.

Defensively, Trey is gone. He'll end up in Chicago with John Fox. We have a tremendous amount of young talent coming up, so while I could see Ware playing another season (because honeslty he was a BEAST this year), I think we end up trading/cutting him for cost measures, UNLESS he agrees to a paycut to keep this defense together. We NEED to keep Mailk. Miller ain't going anywhere. He'll get tagged and a deal will be worked out. He's too special to let walk. Miller is a once-in-a-generation player. Let hillman walk, Keep CJ with a good deal. Sign Kapri Bibbs to the roster.

Honestly, I would not be too suprised to see Emmanuel Sanders or even DT traded if a good deal comes across. DT has drops, but not at any more progressive rate than WRs of his tier, especially with the targets. He does seem to give up a little more, where as HEMAN will give himself up and go for the big play. The next two year are crucial. Draft well, and we're set for 5-7 years. Anything goes wrong and this house of cards comes tumbling down.

beer geek.
Goumindong
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Reply #211 on: February 09, 2016, 12:45:55 PM

No, not at all - they earned it.  Or at least their defense did.  I just think it will be interesting to see how it plays out.  As a Seattle fan, you could see some of the same effect after their win a couple of years ago.  The defense remained more or less just as solid, but the bounces didn't seem to be going their way anymore. 

Let's put it another way:  there is practically no chance that the Bronco D will be so directly responsible for as many wins next season, in the form of last minute heroics (really, it was pretty extreme was it not?).  It doesn't mean they won't be every bit as good, they'll just be a bit less lucky.  If their offense does not take steps in a positive direction, it stands to reason that they would regress a bit overall.  Or am I wrong about all the close games decided by huge defensive plays?

The same exact argument can be made about Carolina, but on the opposite side of the ball.  I think this season was an anomaly for Cam where everything seemed to just go their way, and he will personally regress a bit.  Also, they are one Greg Olsen broken leg from being a sub 500 team again. 

Well the good thing for Denver is that their offense will be going in a positive direction because

1) Osweiller is better than Manning. A lot better. Osweiller is about middling in terms of QBs(and only having played a handful of games that is actually really good) but Pey Pey is the worst(literally the worst QB in the league in every statistic)

2) Osweiller didn't play in the playoffs and so doesn't have performance pay on his free agency year.  *

*That is, Denver should have played Brock throughout the playoffs. Because they didn't I expect him to have less competitive offers and that will allow Denver to pick re-up cheaper than they would have otherwise

Also, Brady took no paycuts (he sometimes restructured for smaller cap hits, but always got paid more in the end, and at the time of his signing was always the highest payed QB in the league, with contracts not out of line with current ones, he looks underpaid now, but that is because we are at the end of a massive pay stream and that is just what that looks like)
sickrubik
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Reply #212 on: February 09, 2016, 12:52:22 PM

Paycuts/restructuring is all semantics at the end of the day. The point is he has continually reworked his contract to free up money for the team.

The broncos made the perfect decision to play Manning. Manning is "the worst" due to A) Injury (which apparently he hid from way back in preseason practice) and B) Age. Osweiler's production was slacking off towards the ned of his runand showed some rookie level issues. That will work itself out with experience, and the kid is going to be good. However at the end of the day, I'd rather have Manning in the general role, being able to check in and out of plays than the inexperience of someone like Brock who was showing flares of bad decision making. It's not like he was "benched" for no reason.

Also, again, Oswieler is ALSO a UFA. Don't be surprised if someone else offers him $12-$15 and he walks. I'm not sure I've seen enough to think he's worth that much.

beer geek.
Goumindong
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Reply #213 on: February 09, 2016, 12:59:17 PM

Free up money for the team now, in exchange for more money later does not a paycut make. Brady is the only player who will restructure in this manner and have it called a paycut when lots of players do such things

And Brock was not benched for Football reasons. He was benched for money reasons.
Malakili
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Reply #214 on: February 09, 2016, 01:15:49 PM



And Brock was not benched for Football reasons. He was benched for money reasons.

You think a team that is on track to win a Super Bowl is just going to say "fuck it, we'll put the guy who we think gives us a worse chance to win in the game to save us money next year"?

sickrubik
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Reply #215 on: February 09, 2016, 01:17:51 PM

Free up money for the team now, in exchange for more money later does not a paycut make. Brady is the only player who will restructure in this manner and have it called a paycut when lots of players do such things
Jesus christ, you want to get hung up on paycut versus restructuring. Fine, I used the wrong damn word. The point is he works with the team to be able to afford the players they need. I'm giving him props for that, for fucks sake.

And Brock was not benched for Football reasons.

And yes, yes he was. But, what do I know. I only watch each game a few times and pay attention to the team very closely.


Edit: Quoted what I was responding to, for clarity.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 03:09:41 PM by sickrubik »

beer geek.
HaemishM
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Reply #216 on: February 09, 2016, 01:27:44 PM

Also, again, Oswieler is ALSO a UFA. Don't be surprised if someone else offers him $12-$15 and he walks. I'm not sure I've seen enough to think he's worth that much.

This is a given. Someone, whether it be Denver or otherwise, will give Osweiler $12-$15 million easy, just based on what he did when he played. He wasn't bad, he wasn't great but these days just not tripping over your own dick at QB is worth $12 million. Houston would probably shank a bitch for him, as would St. Louis. Hell, Kirk goddamn Cousins is going to make that kind of money off what he did this past year. I'm betting Chicago fans would be interested as well.  why so serious?

Malakili
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Reply #217 on: February 09, 2016, 01:32:40 PM


And yes, yes he was. But, what do I know. I only watch each game a few times and pay attention to the team very closely.

 swamp poop
sickrubik
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Reply #218 on: February 09, 2016, 01:57:22 PM

Not sure what you're boggling at.

beer geek.
Trippy
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Reply #219 on: February 09, 2016, 02:01:25 PM

Most people, if they watch a game, only watch it once. So "only watch each game a few times" is atypical.
sickrubik
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Reply #220 on: February 09, 2016, 02:06:03 PM

I may have exaggerated slightly, or at the very least, mislead. The other viewings are often specific situations or the condensed replays. I don't sit there watching it in real time three times. Fast fowarding, etc.

Especially leading up to the end of the season, going into the post season, and having a legitimate "qb controversy", and just wanting to know more about play styles and formations leads to watching stuff more than once.

I only watch one sport, Football. I tend to go all in on that. But I also watch ridiculous documentaries on fonts and shit. To each his own.

beer geek.
Malakili
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Reply #221 on: February 09, 2016, 02:15:50 PM

I'm also not sure how watching the game three times, fast forwarded or not, tells you anything about the coaching decisions made about the QB. Brock Lobster might damn well be better than Peyton Manning at this point (he is), but he certainly doesn't have the playoff experience that Manning has and a big part of marching through the playoffs to a Super Bowl is having something like that at the helm.  It just strikes me as crazy that you're just matter of factly stating that the Broncos willingly gave themselves a worse chance to win the Super Bowl because they thought benching the guy would save them some money in the future. It's not like the team was tanking, so let's just save money and go into some kind of rebuilding mode here. They've been kind of all in on winning the Super Bowl for several years, why would they cheap out now?
sickrubik
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Reply #222 on: February 09, 2016, 02:29:32 PM

It just strikes me as crazy that you're just matter of factly stating that the Broncos willingly gave themselves a worse chance to win the Super Bowl because they thought benching the guy would save them some money in the future.


Uh, i didn't. That was Groum.

Edit: I see where you got confused. My "Yes yes he was" in was response to Groum, not you. We just happened to be putting responses in at the same time.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 03:00:57 PM by sickrubik »

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Goumindong
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Reply #223 on: February 09, 2016, 04:15:54 PM



And Brock was not benched for Football reasons. He was benched for money reasons.

You think a team that is on track to win a Super Bowl is just going to say "fuck it, we'll put the guy who we think gives us a worse chance to win in the game to save us money next year"?



Yes. Yes you will. Not only because you're paying your other QB 20m/year [and so have to justify benching him to the media] but also because you want to stay on his good side for potential coaching positions (if he decides to take any)

Because otherwise there is no downside to playing Brock. He has room to grow, will want/need playoff experience and he is a better player right now. Shit at the very least he can hand the ball off just as well as Peyton can.

In the regular season, Peyton threw 9 touchdowns and 17 interceptions on 331 attempts. His Interception rate was worse than Blake Bortles. Nearly twice as bad. 5% of the time Peyton threw the ball he was intercepted. In 7 games Brock threw more touchdowns that Peyton did in 9. And he did so on fewer attempts. He even had a tougher overall schedule than Peyton when doing it. And none of the games lost were his fault. Against Oakland he had multiple dropped passes which turned would be touchdowns into field goals. Against the Steelers the defense gave up 27 points[or 34 if you're unkind]

True, Peyton didn't fuck it up in the end. But that is more luck than anything else. (especially if we go by Peytons history in the playoffs)

Saying that Brock was benched for football reasons is stupid. That or the Bronco's managerial staff is stupid.
K9
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Reply #224 on: February 09, 2016, 04:22:02 PM

The Broncos could always let the Lobster walk and trade for Jay  why so serious?

As a Bars fan I'd love to have Trevaythan, he'd fill a real need on our roster.

Also, I may have misunderstood the article on overthecap.com, but I think Denver could afford to franchise Von Miller for three years and he'd still be making less than Suh (don't quote me on this, I may have misunderstood). I'm not sure this would be an ideal arrangement though.


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sickrubik
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Reply #225 on: February 09, 2016, 06:38:39 PM

True, Peyton didn't fuck it up in the end. But that is more luck than anything else. (especially if we go by Peytons history in the playoffs)

Saying that Brock was benched for football reasons is stupid. That or the Bronco's managerial staff is stupid.


Peyton was injured during that entire first part of the season. Plantar Fasciitis is a SONOFABITCH thing for a QB to deal with. Hard to throw when you can't effectively plant your foot.

He did better on the backside because he was rested for... what, 3 months?

And stop peddling the stupid stat of "playoff performance". The guy has been there than most people. He has a .519 record in the playoffs. And rarely did he have as complete a team as he did this year, especially on Defense. Yes, Brady has a better record. I would even argue that Brady is a better QB in general than Manning! But the Patriots also have had a much better system for grabbing/building talent. And they have one of the greatest coaches of all time.

Goin into the playoffs, with a team centered around game-mangement rather than chucking it downfield, I'll take Peyton over Brock 10/10 times.

The Broncos could always let the Lobster walk and trade for Jay  why so serious?

I would not be entirely against this in his stage of his career, and the system we're running.

As a Bars fan I'd love to have Trevaythan, he'd fill a real need on our roster.

This move is very likely, given the connection the staff.

Also, I may have misunderstood the article on overthecap.com, but I think Denver could afford to franchise Von Miller for three years and he'd still be making less than Suh (don't quote me on this, I may have misunderstood). I'm not sure this would be an ideal arrangement though.

It will look worse and worse if you keep using the Franchise tag on Miller. As much as he loves Denver, that would sour things. They'll tag him to give time to get a new deal done. He will be a long time Bronco, as JJ Watt is for Houston.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 06:41:53 PM by sickrubik »

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Goumindong
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Reply #226 on: February 09, 2016, 07:41:55 PM

And stop peddling the stupid stat of "playoff performance". The guy has been there than most people. He has a .519 record in the playoffs. And rarely did he have as complete a team as he did this year, especially on Defense

.519 is a coin flip and Peyton did not improve after his rest.

And. i don't know of you know this. Buy Peyton Manning doesn't play defense. Brock would have had all the other advantages that Pey pey got.

Except that he is a better QB right now.
sickrubik
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Reply #227 on: February 09, 2016, 07:51:01 PM

You missed my point. But, okay. This is a dumb circular argument. We just vastly disagree.

beer geek.
HaemishM
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Reply #228 on: February 09, 2016, 08:33:20 PM

I do not think Peyton had a complete team this year. Yes, he had a better defense than he ever had (arguably than ANYONE ever has or a whole bunch of teams) but his offense was pretty crappy despite the talent on that team. D Thomas turned out to be inconsistent though a decent #1, and their line was a mess much of the season. Also not sold on their running backs or tight ends. Also, LOLKUBIAK.

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