f13.net

Get your predictions in here. Let's do overall, then readjust round to round.

WC
Chiefs over Texans
Bengals over Steelers (esp if Dalton plays)
Seahawks over Vikings
Racial Slurs over Packers

Divisional
Patriots over Bengals
Chiefs over Broncos
Seahawks over Panthers
Cardinals over Racial Slurs

Championship
Chiefs over Patriots
Seahawks over Cardinals

Super Bowl
Seahawks over Chiefs

Mmmmm this is some good crack.

WC
Chiefs over Texans
Bengals over Steelers
Seahawks over Vikings
Skins over Packers (who just look god awful)

Divisional
Bengals over Patriots
Broncos over Chiefs (it's the Chiefs for god's sake, and in Denver)
Seahawks over Panthers
Skins over Cardinals

Championship
Bengals over Broncos
Seahawks crush Skins by 20+

Super Bowl
Seahawks obliterate Bengals by 30+

Panthers v Bengals would be an entertaining game if it goes that way.

WC
Chiefs over Texans
Steelers (because Marvin Lewis in the playoffs :awesome_for_real:)
Seahawks over Vikes
Packers over Washington FC

Divisional
Steelers
Chiefs
Seahawks
Cardinals

Championship
Steelers over Chiefs
Seahawks over Cardinals

SB
Seahawks over Steelers

WC
Chiefs over Texans
Steelers over Bungles
Seahawks over Vikings
Packers over Skins

Divisional
Patriots over Chiefs
Steelers over Broncos
Panthers over Seahawks
Cardinals over Packers

Championship
Steelers over Patriots
Panthers over Cardinals

Super Bowl
Panthers over Steelers

Cam gonna dab on em the whole way through.

WC
PIT over CIN
HOU over KC
MIN over SEA
GB over WAS

Divisional
NE over KC
DEN over PIT
CAR over MIN
ARI over GB

Championship
DEN over NE
CAR over ARI

Superbowl
DEN over CAR

A bit homerism, of course, but I think it's valid, given Defense, and the hindsight of SoS.

WC
Chiefs over Texans
Steelers over Bengals
Seahawks over Vikings
Packers over Racial Slurs

Divisional
Patriots over Chiefs
Steelers over Broncos
Panthers over Packers
Cardinals over Seahawks

Championship
Patriots over Steelers
Cardinals over Panthers

Super Bowl
Cardinals over Patriots

Fuck Tom Brady.

WC
Texans over Chiefs
Steelers over Bengals
Seahawks over Vikings
Racial Slurs over Packers

Divisional
Texans over Patriots
Broncos over Steelers
Panthers over Seahawks
Cardinals over Racial Slurs

Championship
Broncos over Texans
Cardinals over Panthers

Super Bowl
Cardinals over Broncos

I think I did that right as a Broncos fan living in Houston.

WC
Chiefs (pretty damn sure)
Steelers (most sure)
Seahawks (least sure)
Packers (almost least sure)

Div
Pats
Steelers
Panthers
Cards

AFC
Pats

NFC
Panthers

Panthers over Pats

WC
Chiefs over Texans - because texans have no qb
Steelers over Bengals - That offense is too damn good
Seahawks over Vikings - Seachickens and Wilson are playing awesome
Packers over Racial Slurs - I hope, but f both those teams

Divisional
Denver over KC - Defense wins this and KC D has injuries
Steelers over NE - Pitts has one hell of an offense and NE can't shut down anyone
Arizona over Seattle - Have to think they recover
Carolina over GB - They have no answer to Cam

Championship
Arizona over Carolina - Zona has too many weapons
Steelers over Denver - Steelers will low blow the Qb and take a win (sweep the leg)

Super Bowl
Zona over Pitts - idk just cause they due and I hate the Steelers

WC:

(6) Steelers over (3) Bengals
(5) Chiefs over (4) Texans
(6) Seahawks over (3) Vikings
(5) Packers over (4) Redskins

Divisional:

(1) Broncos over (6) Steelers
(5) Chiefs over (2) Patriots
(1) Panthers over (6) Seahawks
(2) Cardinals over (5) Packers

Championship:

(1) Broncos over (5) Chiefs
(2) Cardinals over (1) Panthers

Super Bowl:

(2) Cardinals over (1) Broncos

I look forward to seeing how wrong I am.

Gonna go short and second WAP because I am just that deep in the dream sauce.

Predictions!

WC
Chiefs over Texans
Bengals over Steelers
Seahawks over Vikings
Packers over Washington (DC) Football Team

Divisional
Patriots over Bengals
Broncos over Chiefs
Panthers over Seahawks (2 best teams, in playoff field, here, in this game)
Cardinals over Packers

Championship
Broncos over Patriots
Panthers over Cardinals

Super Bowl
Panthers over Broncos (Peyton still can't catch little brother)

Fuck it.

WC
Chiefs
Steelers
Vikings
Packers

Divisional
Pats
Steelers
Panthers
Cardinals

Championship
Pats
Panthers

SB
Pats

Edit due to messing up the seeds, same result though

AFC
KC over Hou
Pit over Cin
Den over KC
Pit over NE
Pit over Den
Pit over Den
NE over KC
Pit over NE


NFC
Sea over Min
Was over GB
Car over Sea
Ari over Was
Ari over Car


Pit over Ari for the title.

Wish I would have seen this earlier, to let you know that... well, you know now, PIT goes to DEN, not KC.

Yeah, I came back to edit as you were posting this. Still, same result/guesses. Of course I'm all sorts of messed up and just not putting things where they go :oh_i_see:

I would like to lodge a protest. My pick of Cincy was predicated on Dalton playing and the Bungles not literally winning the game for the Steelers.

One must always keep the Bungles factor in mind. Dalton starting would not have changed that.

Well, considering the matchup can't happen how you are forecasting them, it does change things significantly.

Lol not really. I'm still predicting a Pit vs Ari superbowl for the same result of correct seeds or mixed up seeds.

Boring games with flashes of "what the hell just happened." Seahawks looked sleepy and won on a fluke play but it is being characterized as skill. Vikings played very well and executed a great game plan.

I am glad the Packers finally woke up. The NFC playoffs still have a chance at being interesting now.

Wondering where you are seeing skill being presented as the winning factor. I have not seen this from the team themselves, the local sportscast or any organized fan club. Sure there are going to be uberfans where the hawks can do no wrong, but all of the major voices I heard were saying it was pure fucking luck.

Could be the fluke play being mentioned is the bad snap that went 15 yards behind Wilson?  Which may or may not have been something you could skill, but it was fucking amazing regardless.

KIRO radio called it a "Christmas miracle" right at the end of the game.

I am not claiming skill but at the time of Wilson's scramble and bomb the commentators went off the rails.

I think after what I've seen that next week in the AFC is much more up in the air then I expected. Not that the Chiefs should get a ton of credit beating the Texans who aren't a real football team if they can't fake a run game but the Pats might be tested more than I had expected. OTOH I think the Broncos ought to and better win especially if any of the damage lingers on two of the Steelers best players. Its clear the League isn't even going to think about any suspensions for anybody including coaches but if the Broncos lose after a week rest against a team that was beat up like that... They are the Broncos I think they are. Because I certainly wasn't expecting a badly mauled almost beaten emotionally drained Steelers going into that game. Rather an easy-route, full swagger mode Steelers.

Then again they are one Shazier blitz (god he's a beast, so fast) from Manning being easily knocked out of the game. Beyond that I think my picks still look pretty damn good.  Helps that they are all chalk but for a Broncos upset.

I just realized I never went back and edited KC over HOU, even though I have them moving on in the DIV round. Derp.

Here's my revamped version for this weekend.

Divisional
NE over KC
DEN over PIT
CAR over SEA
ARI over GB

Championship
DEN over NE
CAR over ARI

Superbowl
DEN over CAR

I was right on all my WC picks so I'll just stick with what I got.  :grin:

Same here.

Mine are basically the same, minus the MIN/SEA. Either way, CAR was (is) going to win that next game.

I am waiting until Friday night or Saturday morning to post mine, so I have a better idea of who the hell is going to be playing.

Both Antonio Brown AND DeAngelo Williams will miss the Steelers/Broncos game and yet I still don't feel compelled to change my pick.

Holy crap the AFC sucks.

Chiefs
Broncos
Seahawks
Cardinals

Um. Patriots have got this locked up. Unfortunately.

Terrible clock management by the chefs.

Hello. My name is Andy Reid. 

Pats looked good.  Edelman looked good. Be worried. :)

This. I was hoping Andy could hold off until the Super Bowl to shit his pants. Sigh. And Mike McCarthy makes AR look like Vince Lombardi. Is there a worse game day coach that makes it to the playoffs all the time?

4 hours of sleep. Jersey on, Irish coffee in travel mug, about to head over to Furiously's house to cheer on the Seahawks.

Cards looked really sloppy. Lots of bad Palmer throws that Seattle would have eaten for lunch.

The only good football of these playoffs is going to be Seattle - Carolina. At least I hope. NFC is a mess.

This is funny since up until yesterday I thought the AFC was a complete mess. The Pats showed that they are that team capable of competing with SEA, CAR and ARI. Can you imagine Denver or Pit in the shape they are in competing with any of those teams?

Still not convinced about the Pats either. The Chiefs were not that good of a team. They beat a lot of bad teams to get to the playoffs.

The Patriots with Gronk, Edelman and Brady can beat anyone.  It doesn't necessarily mean they will, but they at least can. The Bronco's are a good team, and if Manning can somehow manage to will himself through 3 games at a high level they could beat the NFC teams also.  Pittsburgh is too beat up.  Lots of talent, but they are limping here.

Nice start.  :awesome_for_real:

Fixed that one for you.

The product the NFL produces is pretty much absolute garbage these days.

Seattle is back to the team I know and love. Make playoffs on miracle horseshit, blow it out their ass in the first game. Good to have the planet back to normal.

Oh my.

Good news is I decided to drink.  Bad news is I have blown through most of a fifth of Jameson's well before halftime.  Whata ffucking  clusterfuck.

Well I won $20  for 1-0 2nd quarter.  Hurray.

Yeah, what the actual fuck. If we were closer, I'd bring over a refresher on that drink. It's cool we're a second half team, but that shouldn't mean we don't play the first. Fuckity boo.

Up 14-0 since I switched to mimosas.  I am not proud.

Cue magical Seattle bullshit time.

Why can't magical bullshit Seattle time start in the first half?

Well, that was something.

Funny how spotting  15-1 team 31 points at home makes it tough to win.  Should be a different looking team next season.  Okung will be gone,  Lynch will be gone,  Graham will be back... Hope they invest on the offensive line.

Different yes. Better? Meh.

God what a snoozer this game is. It would be totally different if Manning could get people who could catch these ducks he is lobbing right into their hands.

 :awesome_for_real: :awesome_for_real: :awesome_for_real: :awesome_for_real: :awesome_for_real:

Super late pass interference flag leads to this ending  :why_so_serious:

Change my Steelers to the Pats winning, and I stick by my pick of the Panthers to win it all.

Sticking with this.

Missed one finally though it was a predictable miss after the surprise beat-down the Bengals put on the Steelers.

Welp, I apparently had my NFC matchups all wrong (as to who would play whom) but my picks of who wins stand because I knew neither the Packers nor the Seahawks were advancing. I think if Antonio Brown or DeAngelo Williams had played, I'd have gotten ALL of my picks right instead of whiffing on the Steelers/Broncos game. And again, my picks stay the same.

The Packers did a lot better than they should have, but that's because they had Sam Shields back. He is apparently just that damn good compare to the rest of their secondary. They got a pass rush and held up the Cardinals attack. But like all year, they got gashed on the big play, likely when Dom Capers decided to forego what was working (man2man) because... reasons. Fuck, I hate Dom Capers. He can do so well with a defense but he cannot make any adjustments worth a fuck. Oh well, I'll be rooting for the Cardinals from here on out.

The Panthers going 31 points up... I was expecting to hear news from Seattle that Way was out on a ledge. But the second half is exactly why I don't trust the Panthers to win against Arizona. The domination they were putting on the Seahawks (and the Giants a few weeks ago for that matter) in the first half should have continued into the second half. Instead, they let both those teams back into it for no good reason. Their offense sputtered and their defense couldn't cover receivers. Maybe Dom Capers was handling their second half DC duties. I expect the Panthers to get stuffed next week, home game or not.

The Chiefs are not a good football team. Sure, they won 11 straight, but dear GOD, watching their offense is like watching old people fuck. THEY ARE SLOW, PONDEROUS AND BORING. I'm not sure how they scored 20 points in any game ever. The Patriots were clearly the better offense and their defense was good enough.

And then there's the Broncos, whose offense is also like watching old people fuck, only with more fumbling. Kubiak's offense are slow and boring, but it doesn't help that their best receivers drop the ball ALL THE TIME. Demarius Thomas should have twice as many receptions as he does, but he drops balls left and right in every game I've seen him. And as good as their defense is, it still almost got beat by a Pittsburgh team without its best receiver and with a QB whose arm was probably hanging onto his shoulder with fucking chewing gum. If Tom Brady has Edelman and Gronk at 70% health, the Broncos will not win because the Pats defense isn't great but it's better than the Steelers and Brady's arm is still attached to his body by actual flesh.

I'm going to (as a lot of people have been) going to call bullshit on the Rothlisberger shit. Dude played great yesterday, and that shoulder injury didn't slow him down. And their other receivers did great. CHJ's worn down, especially with dealing with the shoulder injury now too.

Don't get me wrong, it ain't gonna br pretty, and NE is NEVER a walk in the park.

I'll go ahead and predict the Broncos will have 4 dropped passes, and will lose by 3-7 points.  :why_so_serious:

only 4? I think the over under is set at 12.  :why_so_serious:

Oh sorry, I was just thinking of D Thomas's drops.  :why_so_serious:

 :thumbs_up:

Did anybody else notice that the refs were calling these games completely differently than any regular season game this year? There were some pretty obvious pass interference/illegal contact calls that just weren't called at all in most of the games I saw that would for damn sure have been called in the regular season. I'm not sure there were any that were just total bullshit that decided a game but it's pretty obvious to me that the refs were instructed to let some things go.

Okung has been injured enough its like he isn't there. And Rawls is better than Lynch(maybe not in his prime, but right now, if he can stay healthy). We will draft O-Line and probably be just fine
The Packers will continually be held back by their terrible play calling.

You're down by 1 and you have the chance to "guarantee" a tie or go for 2. What do you do?

A: You go for 2 because a single goal line play has better success rate than a full drive and you only get the full drive chance to win 50% of the time on a coin flip. And momentum is against you because you just had to throw two Hail Mary's to get there so good luck getting down the field again. And you have a 50% chance to not even get the ball and have to stop the Cardinal's offense with an even more tired defense. And through all of that the extra point isn't even guaranteed! Its a 94% chance right now. So even if you think you have a 50% chance to win in overtime which you don't as the underdog then the probability of winning if you kick is less than the probability of converting the 2-pt

A(Mike McCarthy): You know what? Lets go to overtime. I don't trust Aaron Rodgers on the goal line.


Panthers will probably lose to Carolina. While Seattle is the better team of the three in DVOA the Panthers have both the offense and defense type to stymie the Seattle style. They protect very well against big plays and have a great pass rush. And well, we tend to go for big plays and eschew the intermediate routes that have a chance of punishing that. Their brilliant linebacker spy is basically the worst thing for us since its so much harder for Wilson to get away from it, even if he is going to pull from his bag of tricks. Similarly we play a similar defensive scheme as Carolina with great pass D that prevents big plays until the line can force something to happen. But it doesn't protect against intermediate pass plays; especially when designed QB runs or scrambles are on the table.

Arizona on the other hand is all about those intermediate passes which will drop in front of the Carolina defenders and too far away from the spys for them to do anything about it. And their defense is all about letting someone try to make the long pass by defending the intermediate and not giving them enough time to get the long throw. Against the Hawks this does not work because Wilson is a magic man and we will eventually get that long pass down. And Palmer is not mobile enough or willing to do designed run plays in order to not have our d-line make his day difficult.

I expect the Cardinals to beat the Panthers. Whether or not they can beat the Patriots is another question (Patriots are almost a shoe in unless Denver nuts up and plays Osweiler) but i would say that Arizona has the best chance against either team.

They almost always are. But i am not sure what you're referring to. The only game i watched particularly closely(Sea/Carolina) looked fairly clean(well besides my unhappiness wanting to flag carolina on every play) and i didn't see anything particularly worthy of being called that wasn't except for a few instances of Carolina defenders turning over on Wilson.

This is one of the reasons I LOVE the Cardinals offense. They play the pass the way NFL teams USED to before all the bubble screens and West Coast dink and dunk offenses became so prevalent. Yeah, great your QB has 70% completion rate - did any pass travel more than 5 yards? Most of those passes are reliant on the wideouts making yards after the catch because defenses no longer know how to fucking tackle in the open field. That's one of the reasons Seattle's defense has done so well over the years and especially in that Super Bowl win. Their defensive backfield could actually tackle those fast wideouts in the middle.

It's one of the things I HATE about the Packers offense especially this year. Their pass plays are all dink and dunks with almost nothing in the intermediate. Their wideouts couldn't get open on those short routes because of a lack of quickness and our shitty OC and McCarthy never figured out that Rodgers can throw the ball accurately 10-15 yards down the field. I would kill for Bruce Arians as our HC.

I think he's talking about the Steelers vs Broncos game. I wish to god every football game was reffed in the secondary like that game was. That was real bump and run coverage like before the Pats complained and then when the nfl didn't change the rules enough they just mugged the fuck out of the Colts WR's every play in that one playoff game and then the nfl changed the rules or calling emphasis in the off-season.

Yeah, that's about what I mean. I also saw some in a few of the other games that normally would have been called even though they were pretty minor contact. My point is that the refs in the regular season call the shit out of ticky tack interference calls but they suddenly disappear when more people are watching.

I'm going with Arizona this year because southwest and they have Mickey Rourke as a HC.  Arians is a damned cool cat.

Fuck it. McManus late FG to bring it to 26-24, Broncos. I can't even pretend to not be fanboying out.

Cardinals
Patriots

What the fuck was that roughness call? Nobody'd touched him.

Odd that the Patriot's Tablets don't work in Denver.  :oh_i_see:

A convenient excuse for pats fans to cling to if they lose and something to harp about if they win.

The Bronco's edge rushers are having a field day. The score is a lot closer than this game has looked to me.

Guess that's revenge for headsets having mysterious malfunctions in New England all these years. Seriously. Fuck the Pats. Hope the team bus crashes on the way home.

Von Miller is going to get PAID this offseason. Him and Ware are basically winning this game for Denver.

And the Pats are not going to the Superbowl.  :awesome_for_real:

And it was a gostowski missed pat that was the difference. Bizarre.

Yeah.

Denver's D is just ridiculous. But it has to be because that O is really lacklustre.

It would have been 19-20. So... no.

That being said, his terrible onside kick did more damage.

Also, I AM GOING TO BE SO DRUNK.

 :awesome_for_real: :awesome_for_real: :awesome_for_real: :awesome_for_real: :awesome_for_real: :awesome_for_real:

No, it would've 19-20 after the TD, which then Gostowski could've converted the PAT for a tie score instead of going for 2. (I mean the PAT he missed at the start of the game, ends up being a 2 point swing)

Also lol the Pats had 3 trips into the redzone in the 4th quarter, failing to convert on two of those. If they'd just kicked 3 field goals they win.:P~


Oh and that missed PAT, his first in 9 years. Wow.

WTF are Arizona doing? Running the Wildcat with Palmer as a Wideout on First and 10, then trying to use Fitz as a QB on 2nd and 8?

Carolina looking dominant right now, but Arizona seems to be trying to give it to them.

Well, you can only guess what could have happened. I still don't see that as being "what it came down to". What it came down to was the Broncos D playing just as well this year as they have been and holding them in place, getting pressure and beating the Pats.

What would've happened was that they'd be down one point instead of two after the last TD and wouldn't have to go for a two point conversion.  One doesn't have to guess anything; it's math.

Yeah, seems pretty straight forward.

I think it ended up influencing a number of their decisions throughout the game. Funny that. Seriously 9 years without one.

At the end of the day though kudos to the Broncos defense. The player the Pats have really missed all season? Nate Solder.


I'm going to enjoy watching the Panthers crush the Broncos in the Superbowl.

Fuck Tom Brady and Fuck the Pats. And Super Fuck Josh McDaniel because he just cannot seem to understand that when your Hall-of-Fame QB is getting murdered with extreme prejudice, you do something silly like keep extra blockers in to protect the motherfucker. I didn't expect Manning to be as sharp as he was and I sure didn't expect the Broncos' receivers to actually have so few drops.

And holy shit, Arizona Cardinals. Talk about a supreme choke job by Carson Palmer. But kudos to Carolina and Cam Newton for not stepping on their own dicks. Somehow we have a Super Bowl where both #1 seeds made it. And it might actually be an interesting game.

I'd love to see Peyton retire with one last Super Bowl win, but honestly, I don't care who wins at this point. I'm just glad Brady will spend Super Bowl Sunday watching it on TV.

Cam Newton is America's Quarterback. I want to see some glorious manning face in two weeks

I expect we will. The Panthers D is much better than the Pats.

One last try for Peyton vs. the young up and comer. Eh, at least its a minor storyline to care about.

No Pats and no Steelers were all I wanted out of this postseason. I'm happy.

But, we're assuming everything played out the same later in the game. The game plan could very likely be different from that point on. That's what I'm getting at. Saying something that early in the game was the "reason" is simplistic.

Just because something happened early in the game doesn't make it less important.

I never said it wasn't important. It was important. I just don't agree it was the decisive thing. Nor that there was any single decisive thing.

And no Seahawks.

I didn't enjoy watching us get mauled, but hey, like it isn't the Seahawks at least.

Wish it could have been someone else besides the Bronco's. Really wanted to see the Chiefs or Bengals. But they were a long shot. On the NFC side happy with Panthers, would have been with Arizona as well, since it couldn't have been the hawks. Good to see new blood in the NFC title games.

Shame the Cards went out like they did. Nice of the Broncos defense to rescue us from another Brady SB.

You have no idea how upset I would be if hordes of New England fans were coming to town. Second worst fanbase in the nfl (behind the eagles if you are wondering) easy.

Will be rooting for the Broncos, but they are going to get destroyed in the SB again.

I think Peyton Manning is generally likable, so I'd like to see him get a win here and then just go out on top. I like Cam Newton too, but he has some more shots at this left.

If it means Peyton retires instead of putting us through another season like this one, I'd be fine if the Broncos win. I'm fine either way really because for whatever faults Cam may have, the sheer amount of fun he seems to be having on the field is worth celebrating.

He's only got 1-2 games to tie/take the wins record. Not sure how much that weighs on his decision after the season.

It will be amazing if Peyton gets the trophy, being the second Colts-drafted QB to win a superbowl for Denver.  :why_so_serious:

I am, of course, not at all biased.

I have to imagine that if he wins he will definitely retire.  I mean, at that point why not? Just ride into the sunset. And by sunset, I mean the next nationwide ad campaign.

First-round draft picks no less. They just need to bring over Andrew Luck for the hat trick.

I think the Panthers destroy the Broncos. Their defenses are in the same league, and the offenses aren't at all.

SURE OKAY IM FINE WITH THAT.



The only caveat is that the Panthers had a much softer schedule this season than the Broncos did. BUT, It's going to be tough no matter what. I don't think we'll get destroyed, but I can see us easily losing.

We very well might get a really close game dominated by the defenses.  However, if we don't get that kind of game, I think we have a shot at a Panthers blowout.

Panthers have blown out everyone so far in the playoffs early. They did let the Seahawks back in the door a little.

And that's where I wonder if we have a shot at capitalizing. Our Defense is playing out of their minds. Forcing a couple of turn overs and Special Teams is where the REAL meat will be. I'll be drunk either way.

I didn't know that Oher from The Blindside played for Carolina now. I think that fact alone may swing my Superbowl 50 fandom to the Panthers. Rooting for the crippled, old, white QB was too easy otherwise.

Anyone want to back me in some football bets? I obviously know a lot about the game  :uhrr:

My Panthers all the way pick is still alive while the rest has gone tits up.

Sticking with Broncos, barring any weird injury in practice.

Its going to be "how good can Broncos edge-rush" versus "how many passes can the Broncos receivers drop": the game.

Based on that, and last week's performance... we're fine then!

If the Panthers don't try to assassinate Miller I have no idea what their blocking strategy will entail

They have a better front for one thing, and they use six/seven men more often. Plus, Cam is actually hard to tackle, and can run on top of that.

Calling the Panthers, but rooting for the Broncos. Manning seems to be a pretty swell guy, and I think it'd be cool for a dude like him to go out on a nice win.

The NFL are actually going to 'investigate' the claims that Manning may have taken HGH. I will eat a shoe if the report concludes that he did or even was 'generally aware' of HGH being shipped to his house.

IMHO, it doesn't matter. HGH was not tested back then so we'll never know if he did use it, only if it was sent to his house. Even if that is true, a man coming off neck surgery? I can give him a pass for using HGH to get back up to speed.

It doesn't matter because the "source" in the original story walked back his claims anyway and admitted to lying. He also didn't even work at the clinic at the time.

Yeah, the story sounds like it's either 1) total bullshit, or 2) the people making claims got paid and walked those claims back.

Still not quite sure why HGH is banned by the various sports authorities but the older I get, the less I think we should be banning the use of these things. Let these roided up fucktards bash the snot out of each other for my amusement!  :why_so_serious:

Die from cardiac complications from steroid use or tumble down the mental ladder with CTE. Decisions decisions. . .

Does HGH cause that? I know other roids can cause some serious shit but I don't know enough about HGH to make a decision on it.

Also, yeah the CTE thing kind of kills the argument that "steroids destroy your body in later life!" Because fuck, just taking 10-15 disco biscuits to the head per game apparently turns your brain to mush.

It's more a case there of steroids destroying the other dude's body.

Skipping our yearly trip to Vegas for the Super Bowl this year.  I would be the guy openly rooting for the Broncos, with a $1000 win bet on the Panthers in my wallet.  Color me conflicted.

Come down to Muck and watch. Super Sunday FTW.

Broncos win 26-24

The Broncos beat up on a average offensive line AT HOME and still only won by two points. Carolina has something of a run game plus a mobile quarterback. I'll be surprised if the Broncos win.  I think you can't discount how playing at home helped the Broncos pass rush. 

My god the level of product placement whoring is so bad. I turned on CBS for about two minutes. Two commercials for Turkish airlines that were tied to the batman/superman movie, and then they had the analyst desk people doing a horrid pitch for some new Pizza Hut thing.

I had to turn it off, not sure if I am even going to watch the game at this rate.

I think the panthers win this by six.

I waited until 6 minutes before kickoff to turn this on, and they still managed to annoy the fuck out of me.

I think the companies who spent $5 million for a commercial spot should have spent more on decent ideas.

Welcome to the National "what the fuck is a catch?" League.

That keeps up, and that is all the stories tomorrow will be about.

They need a Yellow/Red card system in the NFL. Grabbing someone by the facemask and whipping them around by it should be more than just a yardage penalty.

Talib's given up 35 yards in penalties alone so far

Panthers need to get some stickum.

Von miller is doing his best to singlehandedly win this game

It has been "almost  time" for the halftime show since two minutes into the first quarter...god I hate the product the NFL and the SuperBowl have become.

EDIT: Though I can always enjoy a lineman getting an interception  :drill:

Kind of a boring game. So far.

I like a good defensive game, I think it's good. Feels like it could go either way still.

A good defensive game is the best, but this is two ridiculous defenses mauling on a pair of offenses which can't find any momentum.

The grimmest stat I've seen so far is that Denver is 1/11 on 3rd downs and Carolina is something similar, maybe 1/9 or 2/10 at this point. That's ridiculous

Has there ever been a Superbowl without an offensive TD?

No and there won't be tonight (Carolina scored theirs on offense).

Doh, yeah. Although if the game ended now I think it would be the first where the winner didn't score one.

It's not the lowest-scoring Superbowl, I think that was number 9, which ended 16-6.

Currently Panthers are 3/13 and the Broncos are 1/12 on third downs  :ye_gods:

4/27 between both teams on third down.

And we are going to see a defensive player as MVP.

Gotta be Miller

Does a penalty giving you an auto first count as a 3rd down conversion?  :why_so_serious:

If it isn't there's something wrong with the universe.

I think we've set a record for both punts and sacks in a superbowl now.

Pretty sure that's game

Farewell Peyton Manning. Holy shit is Denver's defense good.

Both of these teams have ridiculous defenses.

Manning retires with his final pass being a completion for points in a SuperBowl win.

Well there ya go. The NFC/Panthers weren't so good after all. This Pats fan will go mumbling into the night about missed opportunities to play that AFC championship game in Gillette. Which makes you realize that Peyton maybe owes his season to the defense AND Brock Ostweiler. Good times.

Cam looked like he was allergic to the football.

141 yards and an INT, and that was Manning.

I didn't watch much of the game, just how bad was it?

Manning was bad. Especially bad late. He really was running on fumes. But man, that defense. I can't get over how good they were.

Denver's defense was dominant. Neither offense really did anything.

Nice, Von Miller did get the trophy as expected. It would have sucked if they gave it to Manning since the only thing he did well was dodge the retirement question with a scripted quote. 'Gonna kiss my wife/family, drink Budweiser, give thanks to the man upstairs.' :uhrr:

Overall, I liked the game. I like defensive games, but this was better since Car was trailing and they're capable of scoring at any time so it kept the game interesting. At least until the last couple of mins

Both defenses were brutally good.

In many ways getting injured and sitting out the last six or so games of the season might have been the best thing that happened to Peyton this year; he looked a lot less broken than two years ago, when he played the whole season. He did have issues staying on his feet though. Agreed with the feeling that Cam looked flat right from the get go. Maybe it was nerves, or some bad chicken he ate or what. I don't think he quit on that team, but he never seemed to find a rhythm.

Glad Von Miller got MvP. That kid is going to get PAID.

Now I'd be quite content if that means the Bears could snag Trevaythan.

I was yelling at my TV over that bullshit.

Man, what a painful game to watch. I'm all for good defense but I'd like to see SOME offense. Like you know, any? I really hate that Gary Kubiak is now a winning Super Bowl coach, when what really won that game was Wade Phillips' defense. Because holy shit, that offense is terrible. Hey, let's run CJ Anderson directly into the line for a 1-yard gain another 20 times, that'll be fun. Third down and forever? Don't even bother trying to get the first down, just run the ball and punt.

Cam looked terrible which is kind of understandable based on how much turf he had to eat. Their OC had about as much ingenuity as Gary Kubiak and the only reason they weren't as conservative is because they were always behind.

Von Miller is a beast.

The NFL is a fucking joke, however.

 :drill:

The problem with these defensive games is every botched playcall and foul is magnified 10-fold.  I thought the Panthers made a lot of stupid mistakes, but in a game like that you can't have the refs lose focus either.  They seem to have on a few plays against the Panthers which may have cost them the game.   That said, the Panthers did not have the discipline necessary to play against a defensive powerhouse.  In games past they could chew on the opposing defenses just fine, even after making pretty bad mistakes.  This time?  No such chance. 

That, and Shula's playcalling was just horrid.  With a QB like that, the playbook should have been more utilized.  Instead, the Panthers just seemed stubborn with their gameplan.

I enjoyed watching the game but I was rooting for the Broncos. Hopefully Peyton and his noodle arm retire from the league while he's on top. My God some of his throws were just cringeworthy. I admit I did not think Denver's D was THAT good but they showed they're the best unit in the NFL hands down. They could have carried Brandon Weeden to a victory. How do you stop a team with both Miller AND Ware from getting to your QB? It's impossible. Newton got absolutely assblasted that game. I felt a little bad for him at the end even but he's young, if he's any good he'll be back as long as they keep that defense strong.

I think (?) one of Carolina's guards got injured and it seemed to me that as soon as he went out of the game the pressure on Newton went from 'high but manageable' to 'oh god run for your life.'

I also still can't figure out how that catch in the first wasn't a catch.

Glad to see Von Miller get the MVP nod.

But man, the Panthers could just not hold on to any ball that was thrown to them, and that includes on the defensive side where there could have been a couple more picks easily.  Miller and Ware pounded the nails into the coffin, but Carolina put themselves there by not being able to catch the football.  In the fucking Super Bowl, no less.

Because no one knows what the rules for a catch are in the NFL these days.

My guess is that when he went to the ground, it looked like the nose of the football touched the ground and the ball moved slightly in his hands. It was one of those plays that no matter what they called on the field it was going to be a "call stands" review, because you couldn't really tell what happened.

(https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/uGC9kRJ8mOntMh_T0GQhTikaF6A=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6008403/jcatchery.0.gif)

In this case - a completely irrelevant 1 yard penalty. NFL rulebook is so full of stupid holes. I could spear your QB in the small of the back and knock him out of the game - you run up and knock me over in response. Net result, offsetting penalties, nothing happens.  The idea that a 15 yard penalty resulting in one yard being marched off because it happened on the two yard line is just another example.

He caught it but when the ball goes from one side of your body to another the refs are going to say you didn't have control of the ball. But Cam threw like shit that game. Like shit. I could count with my hands his completed passes and he did the exact same shit against arizona. Once they figure out he'll just over throw his receivers 80% of the time anyway they did man to man and dared him to run.

Still feels good. Did not sleep well at all last night. Copious amounts of high ABV beer and wings... but what a glorious day.

(http://cbssports.com/images/blogs/Von_Miller_Suspended_Broncos_Peyton_Manning_Fine_Brinson.jpg)

Lots of babies named Von in 9 months.

According to the NFL.

Except that you could. QUITE CLEARLY. The man never ever lost possession of the ball even when it touched the ground and he came up with the ball in his possession. He made one helluva a catch that got overturned by idiotic rules and officials who are either idiots or chose to follow really shitty idiotic rules despite the clear evidence. But then the Dez Bryant catch from last year's loss to the Packers was also a goddamn catch and fuck the NFL for it even being a question.

EDIT: Also, I'm totally down with the NFL implementing the yellow card/red card rules from Rugby for shit like Talib's attempt to twist off that dude's head like it was a fucking beer bottle. Because that shit was completely ridiculous and he's lucky the dude didn't snap his fucking neck. Also, the offsetting penalties thing is really bullshit.

But they wont do that because a character in Buffy made a joke about AF being rugby in Armour

It wasn't overturned. The ruling on the field was incomplete and was upheld.

I like defense. That was a great defensive game. It's a terrible game when the plays are there and the offense just can't make them because they suck. The defenses didn't allow the plays to be there, and that's the hallmark of a great defense.

Same result. A catch that should have been a catch was ruled as incomplete. The call on the field was understandable - not overturning the call is what was completely idiotic.

Same result, big difference. Words/process matter. Have to have irrefutable evidence to overturn, and there was enough evidence in there to say it's possible that the ball wasn't secured as it moved when he hit the ground. To me, this is not a good example of the "What Is a Catch" storyline from the last few years. Plenty of much much MUCH better examples than lumping this one in as well.

I'm convinced that the replay process should include consulting an 11 year-old boy, one who has played backyard football and could easily spot what was a catch and what was not.

But there wasn't inconclusive evidence EITHER WAY, that it was a catch. Otherwise they would've said "ruling on the field is -confirmed-". It wasn't it was upheld, because it wasn't really conclusive either way. Likely if it was called a catch on the field, it would've similarly not been overturned or confirmed by replay either.

I was honestly more upset that Jericho Cotchery wasn't doing more catching like that (and the ones with Panthers) when he was with the Jets.

Cam Newton seriously looked like his arm was hurt and was out of his element all game. Part of it definitely was defense, and Von Miller getting MVP was well deserved.

I didn't watch any of the game but Cam Newton has horrific throwing mechanics. Assuming he wasn't injured Denver presumably figured out a way to make that even worse by disrupting his timing and/or not allowing him to use his inredible arm strength to make his normal throws.

Edit: disrupting

Absolutely agree with both of these. To me, it looked like the nose of the ball touched the ground, combined with the fact that the ball came loose a couple of times means the call of "play stands" instead of "play confirmed" was the right call. However, if the play was called a catch and then challenged, "play stands" would have been the right call there as well. It was that close where an overturning wasn't possible.

Meanwhile, there's fuckall being said about the non-called intentional grounding calls on Cam (there's mention of two to three, but I only clearly remember one that was undeniably IG). Or even the late hit called on Den when Cam was still on his feet.

I tried to not get caught up in missed calls, because they usually cut both ways. That Late Hit thing was the only thing that made me think "WTF WAS THAT".

The officials only threw flags on obvious false starts and a few (of the many) obvious unsportsmanlike/unnecessary roughness penalties. Saying "oh they missed this or that" is ignoring the issue that the officiating sucked. But that is pretty much the NFL these days: shitty product that is all about pushing more and more advertising and jingoistic chest thumping at the audience to distract people from the fact that the product is shit.

Gotta name them Vonnie B'Vsean though. How the fuck do you spell that middle name? Bofshon?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XamRGIDWOZk

Never had control till the end. Touchdown. Off his ass.

Cam was rattled all game... that challenged "no-catch" deflated things early.

The difference there is that the ball didn't touch the ground at all.  The ball can touch the ground only if it doesn't influence your control of the ball. If it hits the ground and it causes you to bobble the ball it doesn't matter if you regain control.

The ball on the catch in question last night never touched the ground, his arm was under it the whole time.

2015 was Cam's 2 standard deviation event. He has never been a good passing QB. Last year was a fluke and the luck of an easy schedule. The real Can Newton all fantasy football players know came to work on Sunday. 

That's the point of dispute, surely. It looked to me like the tip of the ball touched the ground as he was rolling over the top of it, causing it to come a bit loose. That is what they called on the field, and because the replay doesn't show it clearly, the call stood.

Hooo boy, were Carolina not prepared for this game. This is why you don't believe your own hype people, and do your research.  :oh_i_see:

I think more than any indictment of Cam's ability, last night (and the playoffs) showed just what a HUGE fucking gulf in class there is in the NFL between some teams. I mean, Denver didn't win 15 games (mainly because Kubiak's offense sucks so much ass no matter who the QB is) and Carolina did. Not only that, Carolina won 15 games by a margin of a metric fuckton. One of the differences is that Carolina was playing on a schedule that was based on a 7-8-1 record from the previous year while Denver had a 12-4 record to base their games off of. Denver's SOS was .500 while Carolina's was .441. Carolina's strength of victory (based on the winning percentages of the teams they beat) was .438 to Denver's .479. That's how shitty the NFC was this year. Denver scored almost 200 fewer points this year and gave up only 12 less than Carolina.

I think I'm really beginning to hate the parity-based scheduling.

0:15 of the butt catch is questionable as you do not see the ball buried in Barnidge's leg. Could be on the ground, might not be... call was a touchdown so it would have to be overturned, but point remains. Ball is all over the place and it might have touched.

Either way.. Peyton rides off into the sunset and Miller is getting paid.

You're right - in fact, I'd say that even before the stats, just looking at personnel can be a good indication. I had a feeling about Carolina, because while they had a few good players on defense, their O was essentially all 'who?' + a QB with a big arm and not much sense. They won a whole bunch, but against a soft schedule. Whereas Denver scraped past NE on a rare tactical mistake by Darth Hoodie & Co, and had an overall tougher time before that, including not having their best QB for a stretch. However, their defensive player selection is monstrous, and their offensive lineup is also very very good, even with their choice of broken / newbie QBs. In that, the superb owl reflected the matchup; Carolina defense held up for a while, but were eventually tired out and slowly picked apart, while their offense ran repeatedly into a brick wall.

Eh. The Panthers beat both the Hawks and Cardinals, the No 1 and 2 teams in the league by DVOA. While the Bronco's barely squeaked by the Patriots(and the Steelers with Rapelsburger more injured than Manning) and the vast majority of their offensive power coming from a player they benched.

They went in with the number 2 defense and 5 offense against the number 1 offense and number 24 offense[in reality even worse].

They got wrecked by turnovers/Von Miller and co playing out of his/their mind.

I mean really. The Bronco's converted 1 third down and got like 3 first downs all game. The Bronco's had overall worse offensive stats for the game. They just got all of the breaks and the Panthers didn't*. That is just the way games with low probability turnovers go.

Trying to list it like it says anything about the Panthers is foolish. This isn't superbowl 48.

*I saw one bad late hit call against the Bronco's. But i also saw some pretty blatant hits by the Bronco's not called and when things did break the broke against the Panthers.

Ed: that being said that should have been a catch(though i can see why it was ruled incomplete on the field and why it wasn't overturned). His hand was under the ball at the point the ball might have hit the ground, and so even if the ball technically hits the ground i am not really comfortable saying that isn't a catch. It would be like laying out and having the ball hit the ground before you catch it because the grass is longer than the width of your hand.

edit: Strength of Schedule stats after the season don't mean much. Because the Panthers beating on everyone lowers their strength of schedule. Basically the Bronco's had a "high" strength of schedule because they didn't win that hard, and because everyone else in the AFC sucks kinda equally except the Patriots, (and maybe the steelers and Bengals were actually decent this year)

Well, the main point about SoS surely must be that it is generally a bit unfair that the first place team must play a first place schedule the following year.  If you play in a competitive division, it is quite a handicap.  That's in fact exactly what it is - a handicap system.  I dislike it immensely.  Watch the Panthers next year revert to form.

Will also be interesting to see what happens to the Broncos next year.  Including the Super Bowl, they won something like 9 or 10 games as a result of huge defensive plays.  I am not arguing that the defense wasn't great, only that the lucky breaks and bounces are unlikely to continue like that and they will need to generate some offense. 

Win the Super Bowl, people still bury the Broncos.  :why_so_serious:

No, not at all - they earned it.  Or at least their defense did.  I just think it will be interesting to see how it plays out.  As a Seattle fan, you could see some of the same effect after their win a couple of years ago.  The defense remained more or less just as solid, but the bounces didn't seem to be going their way anymore. 

Let's put it another way:  there is practically no chance that the Bronco D will be so directly responsible for as many wins next season, in the form of last minute heroics (really, it was pretty extreme was it not?).  It doesn't mean they won't be every bit as good, they'll just be a bit less lucky.  If their offense does not take steps in a positive direction, it stands to reason that they would regress a bit overall.  Or am I wrong about all the close games decided by huge defensive plays?

The same exact argument can be made about Carolina, but on the opposite side of the ball.  I think this season was an anomaly for Cam where everything seemed to just go their way, and he will personally regress a bit.  Also, they are one Greg Olsen broken leg from being a sub 500 team again. 

The NFC was really really bad this year. Just look at competition.

The NFC South had Carolina trouncing 3 teams with 8 wins or less, and all of them probably deserved worse except they played each other.
The NFC East was a horrific joke that had an AWFUL Redskins team emerge as the winner with 9-7. Over 3 teams with a sub-.500 record.
The NFC North featured a busted Green Bay team still managing to win games, and a one-dimensional Vikings team cleaning up on a crap schedule. Seriously, the Vikings had no wins against playoff teams except GB at the end.
The NFC West had Seattle, who we watched completely wreck the early part of the season before getting some semblance of balance, and a good Arizona team.

Basically it was Carolina and Arizona wrecking the rest of the conference. The other teams if you really dug into their issues had ZERO shot of winning a title. Maybe an outside change of Seattle simply because of their composition, but nobody really took the other playoff teams seriously.

Meanwhile the AFC was very competitive. Steelers, Bengals, Chiefs, Broncos, and Patriots all had a shot at winning a title this year. All were viable teams to advance to the Super Bowl minimum. Even a team like the Jets had a good season, and they were better than 85% of the NFC teams.

Both conferences were shit, the NFL is shit.

 :why_so_serious:

Based on their offense, I would not say the Chiefs were a viable Super Bowl contender. Their offense was fucking terrible and slow and I have no fucking idea why the Eagles picked the Chiefs OC as their new head coach. The Steelers defense would probably have lost them games against good offenses in the playoffs, but the only offense they played in the playoffs that was worth a fuck was the Bengals, who were playing their backup QB with a grand total of 3 starts including the postseason. Also it was the Bengals. The Jets had Fitzmagic as their QB and while he was a HUGE upgrade over Geno Smith, he is a human turnover machine. The next best teams were the Bills, the Texans (no QB and got beat 30-0 by the Chiefs), the Colts (with Methuselah at QB, and no O Line) and the goddamn Raiders.

There were 4 good teams this year. Denver, Carolina, New England and Arizona. That's it. Everyone else either played terribly (Packers), were one-trick ponies (Vikings) or were deeply flawed or injury-prone or just plain fucking terrible. Denver's offense was a really bad joke, Carolina had garbage at wideout and were carried by their MVP QB playing out of his mind against a shitty schedule (and their defense was good but did just enough not to lose in many games where they were dominant), New England was a rolling MASH unit and Arizona - Arizona was I thought a good team that apparently just couldn't hold up under playoff pressure. I mean, they barely beat the Packers who were terrible this year.

I'm just going to go out on a limb and say that the last CBA is a significant reason why the NFL product has been so bad the last few years, as well as their utterly insane set of pedantic rules like the no-catch thing and the over emphasis on pass interference calls. The CBA ensures that we'll have more players with less than 5 years experience on the field per team, the lack of expanded roster size means injuries can utterly fuck a team and the rules against hitting helmet to helmet are causing more low tackles leading to more players getting their leg bits shredded like pulled pork.

As others have pointed out, the NFC was a shit show. Strength of Schedule DOES matter as it's not just an indicator of how that single team played, but how the teams they played played. NFL Scheduling has been shitty lately.

Also, it WAS NOT just late game heroics. Broncos defense played solidly for all 60 minutes in almost every single game. Saying it was last second heroics is undermanning just how god damn good those guys played and the great gameplans that Wade Phillips put together. They carried early when Manning was lame, kept leads when Oz was in, and played solidly well at the end of the season and played out of their minds in the postseason. Yes, there were several moments of "thank god that happened", but you know what, that's great. The defense was that good. We knew they could dig deep, and make something happen.

Do not forget, this is the defense that beat up on Brady twice and kept Aaron Rodgers to SEVENTY SEVEN yards. Yeah, I'm a homer on this topic, so I'm biased.

And I say all of this knowing VERY WELL we were in the same boat as Carolina was two years ago. All Offense and a defense that shined mostly from beating up on weak divisions, especially the AFC West.

In short, the offense did what they needed to, especially while Manning was out, while the defense kept rolling.

The Broncos defense and offense will likely look very differently next year. There's no way we're going to afford everyone, and I expect some big names to leave. (Danny Trevathan especially) Von Miller's contract is going to make JJ Watt's look like sunday morning matinee pricing.

I mean, seriously, look at this shit (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/denver-broncos/). We're fucked payroll wise!

That's probably the best defense I've ever seen in my time alive in the playoffs. They took down the best of the best QBs in the AFC, and then the number one scoring offense in the league.

Oh my fucking God. I didn't realize it was that fucking bad. That's borderline criminal financial mismanagement.

You better hope Peyton retires quietly and doesn't try to force the Broncos to keep him another year. Even so, you are still going to have to pay Osweiller decent money or get another QB. Von Miller is about to become the highest paid defensive player in the league... somewhere, even if it's not Denver. And good thing you decided to keep D. Thomas (and his drops).  :why_so_serious:

Jeez, even if you remove the $21 million cap hit you'll take with Peyton retiring, you're still only about $30 million under the cap. Normally that'd be a good number but with that list... yikes.

Denver played it perfectly in my mind by the cap. They have a bunch of expiring contracts and they won a championship. Now they get to spend a couple of years redoing their roster with a new QB while they draft up some more talent and shed payroll.

Dynasties hardly exist in the NFL anymore under the new cap rules. You have a window of about 2-3 years, and then it implodes and you spend 3-4 more years rebuilding your shit. The Patriots are an exception to the rule as long as Brady is around, but once he leaves they will be just like everyone else.

That doesn't mean you can't make the playoffs while you figure it out, but it rarely means you have a Super Bowl caliber team while you rebuild.

The problem is going to be making the playoffs for Denver, and a lot of that's going to depend on who is QB. The AFC West has gotten much better even if San Diego was a burning dumpster this year. The AFC playoff field was a good bit more competitive this year and there was only one top-to-bottom shitty division (AFC South) as opposed to the NFC's two really shitty divisions. They better hope they 1) sign/draft/resign a decent QB that stays healthy, 2) get a stud RB, and 3) can sign at least half of those defensive free agents. Otherwise it may get ugly.

Brady is a very very very special case. He takes paycuts all the time. Reminder, his wife is worth a helluva lot more than he is, so he can afford to do that.

Peyton is very likely going to retire. Everything seems to point towards that. Unfortunately, Osweiler could easily fetch 12-15M someplace else. We could very easily find ourselves in a situation where we have no QB orhter than Trevor Siemian, who they do like. Honestly, what I would like to see is a trade/situation where someone like Matthew Stafford is available.

Defensively, Trey is gone. He'll end up in Chicago with John Fox. We have a tremendous amount of young talent coming up, so while I could see Ware playing another season (because honeslty he was a BEAST this year), I think we end up trading/cutting him for cost measures, UNLESS he agrees to a paycut to keep this defense together. We NEED to keep Mailk. Miller ain't going anywhere. He'll get tagged and a deal will be worked out. He's too special to let walk. Miller is a once-in-a-generation player. Let hillman walk, Keep CJ with a good deal. Sign Kapri Bibbs to the roster.

Honestly, I would not be too suprised to see Emmanuel Sanders or even DT traded if a good deal comes across. DT has drops, but not at any more progressive rate than WRs of his tier, especially with the targets. He does seem to give up a little more, where as HEMAN will give himself up and go for the big play. The next two year are crucial. Draft well, and we're set for 5-7 years. Anything goes wrong and this house of cards comes tumbling down.

Well the good thing for Denver is that their offense will be going in a positive direction because

1) Osweiller is better than Manning. A lot better. Osweiller is about middling in terms of QBs(and only having played a handful of games that is actually really good) but Pey Pey is the worst(literally the worst QB in the league in every statistic)

2) Osweiller didn't play in the playoffs and so doesn't have performance pay on his free agency year.  *

*That is, Denver should have played Brock throughout the playoffs. Because they didn't I expect him to have less competitive offers and that will allow Denver to pick re-up cheaper than they would have otherwise

Also, Brady took no paycuts (he sometimes restructured for smaller cap hits, but always got paid more in the end, and at the time of his signing was always the highest payed QB in the league, with contracts not out of line with current ones, he looks underpaid now, but that is because we are at the end of a massive pay stream and that is just what that looks like)

Paycuts/restructuring is all semantics at the end of the day. The point is he has continually reworked his contract to free up money for the team.

The broncos made the perfect decision to play Manning. Manning is "the worst" due to A) Injury (which apparently he hid from way back in preseason practice) and B) Age. Osweiler's production was slacking off towards the ned of his runand showed some rookie level issues. That will work itself out with experience, and the kid is going to be good. However at the end of the day, I'd rather have Manning in the general role, being able to check in and out of plays than the inexperience of someone like Brock who was showing flares of bad decision making. It's not like he was "benched" for no reason.

Also, again, Oswieler is ALSO a UFA. Don't be surprised if someone else offers him $12-$15 and he walks. I'm not sure I've seen enough to think he's worth that much.

Free up money for the team now, in exchange for more money later does not a paycut make. Brady is the only player who will restructure in this manner and have it called a paycut when lots of players do such things

And Brock was not benched for Football reasons. He was benched for money reasons.

You think a team that is on track to win a Super Bowl is just going to say "fuck it, we'll put the guy who we think gives us a worse chance to win in the game to save us money next year"?

Jesus christ, you want to get hung up on paycut versus restructuring. Fine, I used the wrong damn word. The point is he works with the team to be able to afford the players they need. I'm giving him props for that, for fucks sake.


And yes, yes he was. But, what do I know. I only watch each game a few times and pay attention to the team very closely.


Edit: Quoted what I was responding to, for clarity.

This is a given. Someone, whether it be Denver or otherwise, will give Osweiler $12-$15 million easy, just based on what he did when he played. He wasn't bad, he wasn't great but these days just not tripping over your own dick at QB is worth $12 million. Houston would probably shank a bitch for him, as would St. Louis. Hell, Kirk goddamn Cousins is going to make that kind of money off what he did this past year. I'm betting Chicago fans would be interested as well.  :why_so_serious:

 :uhrr:

Not sure what you're boggling at.

Most people, if they watch a game, only watch it once. So "only watch each game a few times" is atypical.

I may have exaggerated slightly, or at the very least, mislead. The other viewings are often specific situations or the condensed replays. I don't sit there watching it in real time three times. Fast fowarding, etc.

Especially leading up to the end of the season, going into the post season, and having a legitimate "qb controversy", and just wanting to know more about play styles and formations leads to watching stuff more than once.

I only watch one sport, Football. I tend to go all in on that. But I also watch ridiculous documentaries on fonts and shit. To each his own.

I'm also not sure how watching the game three times, fast forwarded or not, tells you anything about the coaching decisions made about the QB. Brock Lobster might damn well be better than Peyton Manning at this point (he is), but he certainly doesn't have the playoff experience that Manning has and a big part of marching through the playoffs to a Super Bowl is having something like that at the helm.  It just strikes me as crazy that you're just matter of factly stating that the Broncos willingly gave themselves a worse chance to win the Super Bowl because they thought benching the guy would save them some money in the future. It's not like the team was tanking, so let's just save money and go into some kind of rebuilding mode here. They've been kind of all in on winning the Super Bowl for several years, why would they cheap out now?

Uh, i didn't. That was Groum.

Edit: I see where you got confused. My "Yes yes he was" in was response to Groum, not you. We just happened to be putting responses in at the same time.

Yes. Yes you will. Not only because you're paying your other QB 20m/year [and so have to justify benching him to the media] but also because you want to stay on his good side for potential coaching positions (if he decides to take any)

Because otherwise there is no downside to playing Brock. He has room to grow, will want/need playoff experience and he is a better player right now. Shit at the very least he can hand the ball off just as well as Peyton can.

In the regular season, Peyton threw 9 touchdowns and 17 interceptions on 331 attempts. His Interception rate was worse than Blake Bortles. Nearly twice as bad. 5% of the time Peyton threw the ball he was intercepted. In 7 games Brock threw more touchdowns that Peyton did in 9. And he did so on fewer attempts. He even had a tougher overall schedule than Peyton when doing it. And none of the games lost were his fault. Against Oakland he had multiple dropped passes which turned would be touchdowns into field goals. Against the Steelers the defense gave up 27 points[or 34 if you're unkind]

True, Peyton didn't fuck it up in the end. But that is more luck than anything else. (especially if we go by Peytons history in the playoffs)

Saying that Brock was benched for football reasons is stupid. That or the Bronco's managerial staff is stupid.

The Broncos could always let the Lobster walk and trade for Jay  :why_so_serious:

As a Bars fan I'd love to have Trevaythan, he'd fill a real need on our roster.

Also, I may have misunderstood the article on overthecap.com, but I think Denver could afford to franchise Von Miller for three years and he'd still be making less than Suh (don't quote me on this, I may have misunderstood). I'm not sure this would be an ideal arrangement though.

Peyton was injured during that entire first part of the season. Plantar Fasciitis is a SONOFABITCH thing for a QB to deal with. Hard to throw when you can't effectively plant your foot.

He did better on the backside because he was rested for... what, 3 months?

And stop peddling the stupid stat of "playoff performance". The guy has been there than most people. He has a .519 record in the playoffs. And rarely did he have as complete a team as he did this year, especially on Defense. Yes, Brady has a better record. I would even argue that Brady is a better QB in general than Manning! But the Patriots also have had a much better system for grabbing/building talent. And they have one of the greatest coaches of all time.

Goin into the playoffs, with a team centered around game-mangement rather than chucking it downfield, I'll take Peyton over Brock 10/10 times.


I would not be entirely against this in his stage of his career, and the system we're running.


This move is very likely, given the connection the staff.


It will look worse and worse if you keep using the Franchise tag on Miller. As much as he loves Denver, that would sour things. They'll tag him to give time to get a new deal done. He will be a long time Bronco, as JJ Watt is for Houston.

.519 is a coin flip and Peyton did not improve after his rest.

And. i don't know of you know this. Buy Peyton Manning doesn't play defense. Brock would have had all the other advantages that Pey pey got.

Except that he is a better QB right now.

You missed my point. But, okay. This is a dumb circular argument. We just vastly disagree.

I do not think Peyton had a complete team this year. Yes, he had a better defense than he ever had (arguably than ANYONE ever has or a whole bunch of teams) but his offense was pretty crappy despite the talent on that team. D Thomas turned out to be inconsistent though a decent #1, and their line was a mess much of the season. Also not sold on their running backs or tight ends. Also, LOLKUBIAK.