Star Wars : Into Spoilers - The Spoiler awakens.

[Surlyboi]

Your brother's a moron.

That said, watch Rian Johnson's directorial debut, "Brick". Film noir as performed by millenial high schoolers. Priceless for the dialogue alone.

[TheWalrus]

Just got to see this. Still pretty wowed. For a couple hours, I got to be a kid watching a Star Wars movie in the theater again. Pretty damn cool.

[eldaec]

The Star Wars subreddit has people defending the prequels and ranking TFA below them because "they're denser and have more memorable scenes."

Time to kill all the 20-somethings. 

Tbh I've heard this same argument from my brother, who is a Gen-Xer.  Some of his points are valid, as he prefers a more "epic" presentation rather than Abrams' quick-hit filmography.  The prequels just felt a lot bigger with a lot more coverage of the IP (regardless of quality), and for some this is a deciding factor.  Let's be real, Abrams has never been good at scale and pacing with any of his projects.  It's just his style to make large movies seem small and twisty, which works at times for certain IP but not necessarily something like SW.

I think this is why I enjoyed the first third of TFA the most.

When the focus is on individuals navigating something bigger, the style works great. When JJA has to work with a story in which heroes influence the world (or even just travel around it) it unravels a bit and I'd blame direction for that. Same can be said of the new Star Trek movies.

Important note: I enjoyed this film.

[Rendakor]

Your brother's a moron.

That said, watch Rian Johnson's directorial debut, "Brick". Film noir as performed by millenial high schoolers. Priceless for the dialogue alone.

A friend recommended this to me a few years back, and I couldn't get through it. Came off somewhere between weird and pretentious.

[Malakili]

As someone who loves noir, I thought Brick was just great. Yeah, it's weird, but lots of good movies are weird.

[HaemishM]

Your brother's a moron.

That said, watch Rian Johnson's directorial debut, "Brick". Film noir as performed by millenial high schoolers. Priceless for the dialogue alone.

He did "Brick?" Oh that was a damn good film. Very stylish and not that similar in tone to Looper, which tells me the guy has some writing talent. My confidence in the next movie just went up a notch.

[murdoc]

I really liked Brick, Brother's Bloom and Looper. I rewatch Brothers Bloom every couple of years or so and it still makes me laugh.

[angry.bob]

You love being wrong. After the prequels this movie had a lot to prove. The wrong director would've killed Star Wars dead as the prequels very nearly did.

Yes, those prequels that nearly killed the franchise by making as many inflation adjusted dollars as all the other Star Wars movies except for the original? The prequels that damaged the franchise so badly that theaters were sold out for months ahead of time sight unseen, to a movie that could have been an East German art piece featuring a stream of jism saturating photos of the last 10 Soviet Premiers with Darth Vader helmets PhotoShopped in for all anyone knew?

Please, do go on about how this movie had to deliver on all counts to pre-sell all those tickets. The prequels, despite nerdraging, did not damage the franchise in any way whatsoever. Maybe they used fucking Looper time travel technology to send happy viewers back in time to buy tickets for their past selves or some shit like that. That would certainly explain why the daily numbers keep getting bigger and bigger. Oh, wait...

Seriously, just face it. This movie could have had literally anybody writing and directing it, starring literally anybody, with literally any story at all and it would have made the exact same amount of money the opening weekend.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Seriously, just face it. This movie could have had literally anybody writing and directing it, starring literally anybody, with literally any story at all and ....

...People would bitch about it on the internet.

[Velorath]

Yes, those prequels that nearly killed the franchise by making as many inflation adjusted dollars as all the other Star Wars movies except for the original?

Ep. 1 was fairly close to Empire and Jedi for domestic inflation adjusted box office numbers. Eps. 2 and 3 are quite a bit lower.

Edit: One note that should be made about Ep. 7's box office grosses though is that Disney required theaters to not accept various kinds of passes nor allow theater employee see the movie for free until today. It's the only time I've ever seen a studio restrict that kind of stuff.

[Shannow]

Yes Ep 7 would've made a lot of money no matter who directed it. But when you've paid 4 billion dollars for an IP there is a huge difference between a lot of money and a METRIC FUCKTON OF IT. Plus you also want to make a mft with the next two movies and the spinoffs, a Phantom Menance effort would've significantly hurt the take from those efforts. Plus when you make a good movie (which Ep VII is, not great, but good) vs. a mediocre, good enough, effort you attract non Star Wars fans as well. A colleague of mine was asking me today about the movie, he's never even seen the OT, but he's going to see it , partly based on the fact that I said it was a good movie..That's the difference right there.

[Margalis]

Star Wars is basically immune to shitty products. If you make a terrible Star Wars thing maybe the direct sequel won't do as well, but beyond that it's a teflon brand.

Think of it this way: if you add up all the movies, TV shows, specials, etc, there are probably 200+ hours of Star Wars content and out of those maybe 5 hours are good. Yet people still get excited.

[Velorath]

I think under Lucas we were already seeing diminishing returns, and while a Lucas-made Ep. 7 might have seen a substantial bump compared to 2 and 3 if he had also decided to bring the original cast back, I don't think the numbers would have been what we are seeing now. I agree that it probably doesn't matter who Disney ended up getting to direct Ep. 7, but I think what ultimately mattered here almost as much as the Star Wars brand was Disney itself. These guys know how to develop and market the shit out the properties they have.

[lamaros]

Only major complain for me was the movie was way too rushed. Also I worry how they will back up without Ford and pulling the strong homage/remake angle.

That said, I probably enjoyed it more than any other Star Wars movie I've watched... at the time. However it doesn't have the space and scope in feel that made the originals as epic, and doesn't capturey imagination afterwards to the same extent.

My GF said that it felt very Disney, and I agree. A very decent film, but not as unique in its character as it could have been. No auteur edges, wve if they were stupid ones.

[Riggswolfe]

Star Wars is basically immune to shitty products. If you make a terrible Star Wars thing maybe the direct sequel won't do as well, but beyond that it's a teflon brand.

Think of it this way: if you add up all the movies, TV shows, specials, etc, there are probably 200+ hours of Star Wars content and out of those maybe 5 hours are good. Yet people still get excited.

I'd say we have about 7 good hours in the movies. Most of the Clone Wars and Rebels have also been very good.

Seriously, just face it. This movie could have had literally anybody writing and directing it, starring literally anybody, with literally any story at all and it would have made the exact same amount of money the opening weekend.

Opening weekend sure. But once word spread it wasn't any good its numbers would have gone down. The prequels made decent money but they also badly damaged the brand. Star Wars was seen as sort of limping along with awful novels and only the Clone Wars being good. Hardcore fans were even getting discouraged.

So, yes, anyone could have directed it and it would have made a ton of money in its opening weekend but you wouldn't see what is happening now with it on track to possibly dethrone Avatar as the highest grossing movie of all time. (in actual dollars, not accounting for inflation.)

[eldaec]

Only major complain for me was the movie was way too rushed. Also I worry how they will back up without Ford and pulling the strong homage/remake angle.

That said, I probably enjoyed it more than any other Star Wars movie I've watched... at the time. However it doesn't have the space and scope in feel that made the originals as epic, and doesn't capturey imagination afterwards to the same extent.

My GF said that it felt very Disney, and I agree. A very decent film, but not as unique in its character as it could have been. No auteur edges, wve if they were stupid ones.

Personally I think without JJA directing and without Han Solo, the next one is likely to be better.

This film had to have Solo, and had to have a safe pair of hands like Abrams. But both limited what the film could do.

I liked Ford in this, but on reflection the scenes with a genuine sense of threat are all those without Han Solo in them. Rey and Finn escaping Jakku was as exciting as any action sequence I can remember, and the misdirect on Rey and Finn's roles kept the part after Solo dies fresh. Will be interesting to see if post-Solo stands up to a second viewing, pre-Solo certainly will.

[Speedy Cerviche]

Saw this last night, overall decent, entertaining movie. The thing that bugged me the most was also the worst thing about JJA New-Trek, the way he throws away long established technological conventions of these universes seemingly on a whim, like they are no big deal. In Star Trek the transporters are supposed to be a big deal, finicky things with all kinds of limitations, but in new-Trek he just blows through them by having them transport someone off a planet while passing it warp speed, and then a guy transports a multi-sector distance from Earth to the Klingon home planet. Now he is doing the same in Star Wars where in Ep. IV there was a big, cool scene where Solo won't blast to lightspeed because the calculations aren't done because it would be suicide so they have to hold off a fighter squadron while its done, now in Ep. VII he light jumps out of a hanger on a whim with seemingly no calculations. The lightspeed jump into a planetary atmosphere seemed pretty absurd too but at least we can say he gave that one some forethought.

I get it's a movie for kids so the plot doesn't have to be air tight but he leaves gaping holes. It was also pretty stupid to watch in both films the way these guys with all this future tech seemingly have zero radar. How does the Falcon escape Jakku so easily when the Imperials are doing a space supported critical search operation? Aren't there covering spaceships supporting it? During earlier Star Wars movies escaping Imperial covering ships was difficult, creating memorable scenes, now in JJA land the top line Star Destroyers don't notice ships like the Falcon (even though it just escaped Stormtroopers on the ground, who presumably have radios), but Han's dumpy freighter has no problem capturing it in the same scene? Then during that battle around the jungle lake you had a large imperial raid so how does those rebel squadrons get in so easily with complete surprise? You would assume there is an Imperial task force in orbit, with Ren's Flagship and other escorts who could have at least warned the fighters who were covering the transports. You had the same in Star Trek 2, first when Khan steals a gunship and then attacks the Starfleet HQ building with zero local security response other than Kirk jump kicking, then later there's also a long space battle near Earth and Starfleet doesn't notice. We have better airspace tracking & response tech now, and also did in the 1960s when these universes' tech were spawned.

Really just seems lazy and irresponsible of the writers & directors to break the rules and then leave these holes. All these issues could have been pretty easily dealt with and none are essential plot elements. I guess I am just disappointed to see this when the people responsible are paid a lot of $$$ and can't even keep this kind of thing tight, especially when they are carrying very valuable story franchises that is trying to run for decades.

Edit: Just remembered, kinda weak how no political background was given. What planet did that super death star blow up anyway? How come no one seemed to care? Was it Coruscant? What exactly was the Republic? It's capital? How was it supporting the "resistance"? And how seriously given that they only seemed to have a grand total of one squadron of x-wing fighters and one transport shuttle? How much did the 1st Order control? Just that one planetkiller and a few destroyers? Or entire sectors?

[UnSub]

Saw this again and it hasn't changed my opinion - it's a solid Star Wars film that relies too much on "A New Hope" and nostalgia.

I left wondering if Snoke is going to turn out to be the Dark Side equivalent of Yoda and if Luke Skywalker is going to get killed in Ep VIII so he can force ghost advice in Ep IX ala Obi-Wan Kenobi. Or if they'll kill Leia off because she's really not being given things to do.

Or if Finn will turn out to be Lando Calrissian's kid, because the Star Wars universe has a very narrow gene pool.

[jgsugden]

This wasn't just a rehash of New Hope -  Empire and (to a lesser extent) Jedi moments are echoed. 

Atmosphere battle on a cold world?

A father and son have a conversation on a bridge where the father tries to pull the son to his side - and then the hero falls?

The heroes go down to the planet so that they can take out the defenses of the big laser and the heroes can destroy the bitg laser with Space Ships - by flying inside and shooting up the exact right thing.

A mission to rescue a captured hero?

This movie was a rehash packed with all three of the original trilogy's key moments. 

[Speedy Cerviche]

To be expected, but I hope they are just dumping them in to try and create the most nostalgist thing possible for Ep. VII to play it safe, since a lot was riding on it.

Atmosphere battle on a cold world?

Always funny when characters complain about the cold but don't even have cold breath. Is it just that they are too lazy/cheap to CGI it or that everyone who makes these films is in such a SoCal bubble that they have never exerted themselves in sub-freezing temporatures?

[eldaec]

The references are part of what what makes it space "opera".

Starkiller base was also a horrible overliteral rehash. Hopefully they'll stop doing it badly.

But father and son on a bridge over a literal and figurative chasm is the sort of thing that defines the genre.

[MediumHigh]

Saw this again and it hasn't changed my opinion - it's a solid Star Wars film that relies too much on "A New Hope" and nostalgia.

I left wondering if Snoke is going to turn out to be the Dark Side equivalent of Yoda and if Luke Skywalker is going to get killed in Ep VIII so he can force ghost advice in Ep IX ala Obi-Wan Kenobi. Or if they'll kill Leia off because she's really not being given things to do.

Or if Finn will turn out to be Lando Calrissian's kid, because the Star Wars universe has a very narrow gene pool.

Good movie making but terrible star wars film. Basically you get 2 hours of movie with about 10 minutes of actual plot.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Keep chasing that brass ring you crazy dreamer.

[lamaros]

Very much a tell, don't show movie. If you don't wear underwear in space you don't need to have anything under the surface.

I agree that the first third was the best bit, there was no escalating sense of scope to really carry the later parts.

I could nit-pick a lot of other things to pieces, but I'll just stick with I enjoyed it, which was a surprise, and that it was good but not very good or great.

[lamaros]

Also, seems clear that Finn is going to be a Jedi, or at least be the balancing side of Rey's force power. Unlike Rey he doesn't get as angry, and is much more motivated by love. He doesn't shoot defenceless villagers, and he comes back from running away only to save Rey. He is fearful, but it is handled with introversion and determination, not anger and rage. Obviously he is going to be the 'light' side, while she is a badass who can kick ass but struggles with her anger. She manifests her force powers more strongly in response to agression and fear - it's only her moment not selling the driod that really demonstrates some sort of selflessness (and even then it's pretty obvious that someone offering you too much for a driod means it's worth even more).

Rey also has all the major roles locked down, being both fighter and smuggler, and I doubt they're going to write Finn out of the series, so he needs a further arc.

And there's a slight pause in the bit where Maz is talking about Finn's eyes that suggests she's seen something other than just cowardice in him.

Edit: Can't help myself. This also reminded me of one of the stupid things that I think is symptomatic of JJ's flaws as a writer and director. There's this tension about Finn lying to Rey about being in the Resistance, and it's built up for about 10 mins, and then just dropped as nothing. He doesn't know how to build and hold narrative tension. Stuff just appears instantly and is forgotten as quickly. He doesn't have any patience; hence instant travel and other pacing issues that undermine both this and his other films.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I agree with the travel but the impatience of the Finn resistance thing was perfect for me because I hate secret keeping tropes like that.  You could argue to not have it there in the first place but I'm just glad they got past it fast and didn't drag it out.

Ep8 is gonna have the 'twist' be they try and redeem Kylo but Rey too angry about Han will kill him instead and become the main antagonist that Finn(jedi) will have to stop/redeem.

[lamaros]

I'm not keen on the trope, however it was one of the main points of relationship development between Finn and Rey and they just dropped it without any consequence. "Oh well, we don't need that anymore, lets dump it". There's no cause and effect, it's just writing and direction borne of convenience, with a bit of heavy pointing to the audience telling them what they're meant to be feeling now. That point was about when the movie needed to change up pace and scope, and draw some new stuff out, but instead they just hit the 'action sequences' button, and quick cut all the way through to the end.

[eldaec]

Regarding Finn, I assume he is the new heart character / Han Solo. The effort to reference Luke Skywalker has fairly superficial, my take was that it was simply a misdirect to play on how easy it is to make the viewer assume main character will be a man. On reflection I can't see any real foreshadowing that he might become a jedi, and I don't see much narrative advantage in having  both Rey and Finn be jedi.

I expect Poe emerges as the new straight man / Princess Leia, and clearly Rey is main character / Luke.

[MediumHigh]

The marketing through the idea of "storm trooper to jedi" to at least avoid people not seeing it because the main characters a girl. Don't know why they bothered because the longer I watched this movie the more and more I didn't want Finn to touch a light saber and rolled my eyes when Rey decided to run from destiny so Finn can complete his marketing cycle.

[lamaros]

There's not much foreshadowing for Finn to be anything at all - but they have to take him somewhere. He certainly can't be Han. He is closer to Luke than Rey, as Rey is closer to Aniken.

[MediumHigh]

He's closer to Jar Jar than anything.

[eldaec]

End of tFA only leaves 4 characters we can expect to follow, Rey, Finn, Poe, Chewbacca.

Rey is clearly main character going on heroes journey. I assume Poe is Rey's link to the struggle against the empire and the true believer in the cause, while Finn is Rey's sceptical friend, and link to her humanity and the audience. If Finn is also a jedi you have no one left to be relatable to the audience or play foil to Poe. I'd guess the next film develops Poe and Finn as a double act. If it works well you could even use it to explore Finn's fear of the rebellion turning out like the empire (I accept this is probably over optimistic)

Also I don't understand why Finn didn't go to see Luke if they were hinting at Jedi.

Probably right to say he is closer to what Jar Jar was supposed to be than anyone else in the saga. But I think Lucas was aiming for Jar Jar to grow into the relatable sceptic that Han provided in the OT as well as whatever the hell else Jar Jar was supposed to be.

Naturally I could be completely wrong - but that's how I'd do it.

[eldaec]

Also, by the end of their arc, Jedi are basically Gandalf.

Having the two most significant of three leads turn into Gandlaf doesn't sound like good planning.

[lamaros]

Maybe they'll go off script and Rey won't be a Jedi at all! 

[Speedy Cerviche]

Also why did they cast Rey as a British accent when no one else in Star Wars has one? Since there is no England planet, and she actually grew up in a scrapyard on a remote desert planet, how did she acquire this pretentious British accent? Is that actually a Jakkuian accent?