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Author Topic: Star Trek: Beyond  (Read 33461 times)
BobtheSomething
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Reply #105 on: July 23, 2016, 10:53:23 AM

The film is about terrorism and overcoming it via unity, Er, cultural imperialism.  The new character is a poor foreign orphan who loves American Rock and Roll and brings valuable technical skills to the Federation melting pot.  The villain is a discharged US soldier who felt neglected by his country and radicalized in a foreign land only to return and attack a civilian target.  He is defeated by American Rock and Roll corrupting his hold over his adherents. 
It's a bit silly, but there you have it.
HaemishM
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Reply #106 on: July 23, 2016, 03:06:41 PM

Jesus, can you just NOT for fucking once?

I just got back from seeing it and I think it was easily the best NuTrek film which should tell you about the level of it. It was worlds better than Into Darkness and most of the TNG films besides First Contact. I think Elba was a bit wasted behind all that makeup. The twist to that whole thing was given away in the last trailer I saw a bit and the explanation was meh.

Worst, most cringeworthy, saw-it-coming-and-begged-for-them-to-just-not moment:


Justin Lim, Simon Pegg and other screenwriter did a decent job of giving every major cast member screen time and something to do, which some guys just cannot pull off. If they continue on with this crew in this vein, I'm ok with it. Heavy action, a little light psuedo-Trekkian philosophy.

It was much less braindead than the panoply of fuckstupid that was the trailer cavalcade before the movie.

Khaldun
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Reply #107 on: July 23, 2016, 07:16:27 PM

The use of Sabotage was just silly. I think if the whole movie had been tonally that way, like the whales film, it might have worked ok. But it wasn't, so it just felt dumb.
Evildrider
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Reply #108 on: July 23, 2016, 07:19:31 PM

Intergalactic Planetary should play every time they go to warp.   awesome, for real
BobtheSomething
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Reply #109 on: July 23, 2016, 09:28:46 PM

If you are talking to me, Haemish, I was just replying to the people who said the film isn't about anything.  It totally is.  It's a progressive view of humanity, et al, where we come together in multicultural splendor to build Space New York for Space Immigrants who love Space American music and motorcycles.  Sure, Space Colonialism created Space Terrorists, but we can overcome them by working together each in our own diverse capacity.  I'm making it sound silly, but I am talking about a film where a future space ship won a space battle with a little help from the Beastie Boys, so silly fits.

My opinion is that it is the only NuTrek film that feels like TOS, and I love it.  It is easily better than any Trek film since First Contact.
Furiously
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Reply #110 on: July 24, 2016, 01:35:16 AM

It's definitely one of the best 4 trek movies.

Ghambit
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Reply #111 on: July 25, 2016, 03:17:04 PM

As Haemish said, this was the best NuTrek film, and I'd probably put it 3rd best overall; maybe 4th.  It had a bit of everything, but didn't overdo any particular trope.  All the while it was a wholly new experience.
I liked Pine's toungue-in-cheek reference to his life being "episodic."  It was almost like Abrams was directly giving me the middle-finger.  I lolled.

The hearkenings back to ToS (both direct, en memorium, and philosophically) were also pretty tasteful; I appreciated that.

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Abagadro
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Reply #112 on: July 25, 2016, 03:29:13 PM

Enjoyed it. Only complaint is that the movie only seems to have one speed and I think there needed to be a bit more character development here or there.

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Reply #113 on: July 25, 2016, 04:59:41 PM

Saw it on Saturday. It was enjoyable and didn't feel like a waste of money. White alien girl, however, was a bit of a waste beyond the couple of lines of her complaining about the crcew wrecking her house.

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Evildrider
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Reply #114 on: July 25, 2016, 05:48:12 PM

Enjoyed it. Only complaint is that the movie only seems to have one speed and I think there needed to be a bit more character development here or there.

I haven't seen it yet, but they've had 2 movies to delve into the characters.  I'm not gonna be upset if there's not too much more growth there.  As far as the pacing are you saying the movie was too fast and furious?   awesome, for real
Abagadro
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Reply #115 on: July 25, 2016, 07:17:34 PM

I don't mean the main cast. It would be spoilery to really get into it but the motivation of the bad guy and the "new sidekick" roles are kinda underdone.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Khaldun
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Reply #116 on: July 25, 2016, 07:31:09 PM

Yeah. Two hours, they should be able to give us a memorable antagonist.  They really don't.
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Reply #117 on: July 25, 2016, 08:14:00 PM

He's angry, yells a lot and sucks life force. There's your bad-guy.

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Margalis
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Reply #118 on: July 25, 2016, 08:43:47 PM

Yeah. Two hours, they should be able to give us a memorable antagonist.  They really don't.

I feel like this could be said of 90% of big summer movies these days. Where is Hans Gruber when you need him? (Yes I know he's dead)

Maybe there is something to the theory that so many bad guys being CGI / mo cap makes it hard for the actors to do much with the characters. So many bad guys these days are the same blueish dude or LOTR troll guy. Not only can they not emote well, but they also tend to look very similar to each other.

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Surlyboi
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Reply #119 on: July 26, 2016, 08:42:46 AM

Saw it on Saturday. It was enjoyable and didn't feel like a waste of money. White alien girl, however, was a bit of a waste beyond the couple of lines of her complaining about the crcew wrecking her house.

White alien girl was hot, that's enough.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
Khaldun
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Reply #120 on: July 26, 2016, 06:14:55 PM

I know TNG basically did a Die-Hard-on-the-Enterprise episode, but honestly, a nuTrek film that was essentially dealing with a dangerous criminal gang up to serious bad shit would be an awesome change of pace. Or have the Enterprise have to team up with a kind of Dirty Dozen of Spaceships for some desperate mission. There was a good animated episode with Orion pirates who have the bad luck to pull a heist on a ship that the Enterprise is scheduled to rendevous with in order to get life-saving medicine for Spock--it leads to some Wrath of Khan like cat-and-mouse stuff in the chase.

Anything but "generic unexplained alien asshole who is going to destroy a base/planet and then maybe the entire Federation". Especially since they've clearly decided that saving the Enterprise from destruction and not losing most of its crew is insufficiently exciting and motivating for the cast.
Mac
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Reply #121 on: July 27, 2016, 07:32:00 AM

This movie was enjoyable, but it just doesn't feel much like Star Trek to me for some reason. I can't put my finger on it, maybe they need to put some (real) Klingons in it next time or some shit.

(I know they were in the reboot and in Darkness but they sucked).

« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 07:35:26 AM by Mac »
HaemishM
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Reply #122 on: July 27, 2016, 07:46:15 AM

I didn't think the Klingons sucked in Darkness, they were just immaterial. It could well have been any alien race in that situation. Them being Klingon had no bearing on the plot other than to make the Enterprise have to be stealthy, and invading a moon near the Klingon homeworld had no repercussions.

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Reply #123 on: July 27, 2016, 04:22:25 PM

You could say Ricardo Montalbán was the only good enemy in all the films.

Khaldun
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Reply #124 on: July 27, 2016, 04:48:52 PM

The Borg are ok, though TNG fucked them up more and more over time. The Queen kind of ruins it but it's not the worst thing ever.

The Klingon that Christopher Lloyd played was somewhat decent, and rather amusing in some ways. Christopher Plummer's Klingon too. Other than that, yeah, the movies have never really been able to establish a villain able to hold the screen meaningfully.
Soln
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Reply #125 on: July 27, 2016, 08:29:45 PM

I swear one of the best Trek's was the one where there was no crew or bad boss to reason with. Just a ship.


Edit: linked fixed
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 07:27:47 PM by Soln »
Sir T
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Reply #126 on: July 27, 2016, 10:22:00 PM

The Klingon that Christopher Lloyd played was somewhat decent, and rather amusing in some ways. Christopher Plummer's Klingon too.

If you've ever played Klingon Academy, Plummer reprised his role as Chang. Did a fantastic job, best thing about the game imo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1JRMJXut8I <-- Trailer for the game and Intro. Worth 6 mins of your time.

If that whets your appititle all the cutscenes are in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqVlSNP1jEI
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 10:27:12 PM by Sir T »

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Margalis
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Reply #127 on: July 27, 2016, 11:30:38 PM

I swear one of the best Trek's was the one where there was no crew or bad boss to reason with.  Just a ship


Your link is broken, but I can see you're referring the episode in which the Enterprise meets Unicron.

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Surlyboi
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Reply #128 on: July 28, 2016, 05:35:38 PM

The music in that ep is also some of my favorite.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
BobtheSomething
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Reply #129 on: July 28, 2016, 06:22:19 PM

Yeah. Two hours, they should be able to give us a memorable antagonist.  They really don't.


He's a discharged soldier who felt neglected by his country and self radicalized.  If they dwelled on his character any longer, the film would have been a downer.  Besides, there is nothing truer to TOS than a rogue Starfleet captain, except maybe for a godlike computer.
Khaldun
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Reply #130 on: July 29, 2016, 09:16:40 AM

Completely true--though don't forget crazy admiral. (But they did that in Into Darkness, and it might have worked ok if it weren't for the dumb Khan bullshit.)

If you think about "crazy captains" though--there's some who really work and are memorable in TOS and TNG and some who are just forgettable loons. Decker (the guy in the Doomsday Machine) is great. The guy in the Yangs and Kohms one is too silly. I think they could have risked him just being a rogue captain from the beginning--that would have let Kirk build up to a real burn by the end after starting somewhat sympathetic to the guy.
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Reply #131 on: July 30, 2016, 02:10:19 AM

Completely true--though don't forget crazy admiral. (But they did that in Into Darkness, and it might have worked ok if it weren't for the dumb Khan bullshit.)

If you think about "crazy captains" though--there's some who really work and are memorable in TOS and TNG and some who are just forgettable loons. Decker (the guy in the Doomsday Machine) is great. The guy in the Yangs and Kohms one is too silly. I think they could have risked him just being a rogue captain from the beginning--that would have let Kirk build up to a real burn by the end after starting somewhat sympathetic to the guy.


My son asked me last week, "Is Decker from the Motion Picture his son?" I told him I don't think so, then I looked it up and told him yes, yes he is.

Decker was great because he'd seen his crew die and had gone full Ahab crazy.  I think another 10 minutes of him though and you would be rolling your eyes at him. That being said, if there was any episode turned into a JJmovie I'd want to see, it would be The Doomsday Machine.  Plus it wouldn't be Enterprise blowing up for once.

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Reply #132 on: July 30, 2016, 06:19:03 AM

Plus it wouldn't be Enterprise blowing up for once.

I wouldn't be so sure. My gut tells me they would find a reason to have it blow up. It is almost at mythical trope level now.

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Khaldun
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Reply #133 on: July 30, 2016, 08:48:11 AM

The movies have turned the Enterprise into the ultimate red shirt, after the shows treated it as being as unkillable as a main cast member.
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Reply #134 on: August 11, 2016, 06:08:20 AM

To be clear, the ship's "influence" practically never died in the film.  Which I thought was a nice touch.

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jgsugden
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Reply #135 on: August 11, 2016, 06:34:38 AM

This was horrible. Absolutely horrible. Bob referenced the heavy handed underlying 'message' that just screamed 'Look how socially conscious we are',  the alien ship tech made no sense, the McGuffin made no sense, the music was stupidly used, the characters were disjointed... there was really nothing good there at all. I was very disappointed and I had low expectations. It really felt like some 12 year old's fan fiction was used for the script.

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Reply #136 on: August 11, 2016, 07:41:11 AM

This was horrible. Absolutely horrible. Bob referenced the heavy handed underlying 'message' that just screamed 'Look how socially conscious we are',  the alien ship tech made no sense, the McGuffin made no sense, the music was stupidly used, the characters were disjointed... there was really nothing good there at all. I was very disappointed and I had low expectations. It really felt like some 12 year old's fan fiction was used for the script.

Sounds like the 2nd or 3rd best Star Trek movie ever then.

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Reply #137 on: August 11, 2016, 02:17:45 PM

This was horrible. Absolutely horrible. Bob referenced the heavy handed underlying 'message' that just screamed 'Look how socially conscious we are',  the alien ship tech made no sense, the McGuffin made no sense, the music was stupidly used, the characters were disjointed... there was really nothing good there at all. I was very disappointed and I had low expectations. It really felt like some 12 year old's fan fiction was used for the script.

Sounds like the 2nd or 3rd best Star Trek movie ever then.

It's actually a really good movie and probably the best of the reboot films. I'd put it at about 3rd or 4th best Star Trek movies though to be fair, TNG only had one good movie, TOS had 2 and a half (the whale movie hasn't aged well) and the reboot has 2 good movies. So it's not a huge amount of competition.

I'm not sure what the heavy handed message he's referring to is. Probably the bit about the soldier who didn't adjust well to post war life or something? The rest of his rantings seem to indicate he didn't pay attention to the movie. In short, Furiously, judge for yourself but I had more or less the opposite reaction he did. Disclaimer: I tend to be less harsh and jaded than most of the people on f13.

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Reply #138 on: August 11, 2016, 11:34:02 PM

Oh, I've seen it. It was great. I think it really showcased Justin Lin's ability to highlight a ensemble cast much more than the previous two films. I thought it was fun. And it's definitely one of the best four trek movies ever. I am sick of the enterprise being a punching bag, it's almost a joke at this point.

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Reply #139 on: August 18, 2016, 07:47:25 AM

Saw this last night at the local premiere. I liked it even though the ending was very, very silly indeed. Jaylah was cool and I didn't think that she was irrelevant at all. As well as having a hidden spaceship, she also had fairly extensive knowledge of the bad-guy's base, some tech to help Kirk with his distraction and gave important context for the rescue. The fight scenes were awful and I tuned them out so as to avoid getting a headache from the combination of strobes, shakycam and rapidly shifting perspectives. Likewise, the editor really fucking liked rotating camera shots to emphasise a circular element or movement on screen to the point where I actually started to feel somewhat motion sick after a while. Having said that, the long shots of the Enterprise and then the Franklin flying underneath the canals on Yorktown were really nice and the shot where the Franklin is flying through the swarm and it looks like a collapsing surf wave tube was excellent. I'd easily put it at the top of the list for the new Trek films and probably above a bunch of TOS and TNG movies too. Wrath of Khan is probably better and so is Undiscovered Country but this is way better than Into Darkness or the first reboot Trek film.

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