Captain America: Civil War

[Velorath]

I love how personally Velorath takes it when people don't like the same movies he does. It's so precious.

No, you just have a combination of smugness and stupidity that bothers me. Even now you had to resort to writing this rather than acknowledge that your previous post didn't actually argue with anything I said. I'm not sure why you'd even try arguing with what I said in the first place mind you, because my point was that I probably won't like Cap 3 as much as Cap 2 as I think Civil War is a bad story to use as a framework. That you felt (and continue to feel) the need to argue that kinda makes you the one who takes it poorly when people don't like the same stuff you do.

This new angle you're taking though, telling me I shouldn't have liked a lot of other movies I liked I'm sure is going to work out great for you.

[shiznitz]

telling me I shouldn't have liked a lot of other movies I liked I'm sure is going to work out great for you.

Margalis never claimed you shouldn't like something. He just wrote that you shouldn't be surprised by some of the things Hollywood does that piss you off.

[Velorath]

telling me I shouldn't have liked a lot of other movies I liked I'm sure is going to work out great for you.

Margalis never claimed you shouldn't like something. He just wrote that you shouldn't be surprised by some of the things Hollywood does that piss you off.

In direct response to saying I prefer good writing and consistent characterization as opposed to handwaving stuff away he said, "If you want these things you're watching the wrong movies.", which implies that those things aren't present in the MCU movies and thus I shouldn't like them if that's what I'm looking for. That I think he's wrong that many of these movies lack good writing/characterization is almost besides the point, but just to address it, his examples are either small parts of the movie like his GOTG example, or some of the most widely disliked movies in the series like his IM2 example. Drastically changing a core concept of a main character (and again this is only speculation since the movie isn't out yet and I've already said they could surprise me) impacts my enjoyment more than a scene with an energy net made out of spaceships. I can say "well that scene was kinda dumb" and still enjoy a movie.

I'm not surprised at various things that Hollywood does that piss me off and I'm not sure why that would be a response to anything I've said. Given that Civil War hasn't come out yet, it's not like I'm responding in shock to something that happened, I'm saying that I'm expecting some things about the movie I'm not going to like because I'm expecting it to be written around the idea that Cap and Iron Man need to fight at some point. Margalis argues that "What happens in these movies is just whatever needs to happen to get to a set piece.", but I doubt that they started off the GotG script with "Guardians fight Ronan on Xandar" and then worked backwards from that. Of my favorite MCU stuff (IM1, GotG, Cap 2, Avengers 1), I'd say only Avengers feels like it was written around the set pieces.

Beyond that, near the beginning of my initial post I said "I trust the Russo bros. to make an entertaining movie". I'm not arguing that Civil War is going to be shit or that I won't be able to enjoy it on any level.

[Margalis]

I love how personally Velorath takes it when people don't like the same movies he does. It's so precious.

No, you just have a combination of smugness and stupidity that bothers me.

You're doing it again.

You really need to get a grip and realize that we're talking about movies, not your life's work. You aren't writing these movies, you're just a nerd who watches them. You seriously need to chill out.

You got very angry because...I snarkily wrote some dialog illustrating how Marvel will handwave away the actions of IM. That's it. Rofl.

I'm not surprised at various things that Hollywood does that piss me off and I'm not sure why that would be a response to anything I've said

You're being disingenuous. Let's review what happened here:

1. I poked a little fun at Marvel writing
2. You sperged out and said that I don't know what good writing is, making the discussion personal for absolutely no reason
3. I pointed out that my example dialog wasn't SUPPOSED to be good writing, just Marvel writing

Do you still not get that the dialog I proposed is not the dialog I would write if I were writing a Marvel movie from scratch and is instead a cynical "this is how Marvel handwaves away everything" point? I thought it was very clear when I brought up that Marvel handwaved away the end of Thor 1 with ONE line of dialog.


This is how you responded to my silly post:

Handwaving something away doesn't somehow make it good writing or consistent characterization. Good to see that all these years later you still haven't grasped that point.

See the problem? Why are you getting so personal and butthurt about a post that was just taking the piss out of Marvel movies a bit?

Maybe you should grasp the point that we're talking about silly movies here and can your baby rage.

[Pennilenko]

 

[shiznitz]

can your baby rage.

Using that line might actually be worth getting slapped in the face by my wife.

[Evildrider]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43NWzay3W4s

1st official trailer dropped.  My god that looks awesome. 

[Trippy]

Chris looks kind of wimpy.

[RhyssaFireheart]

Oh wow.  Hype train incoming!

Sebastian Stan. 

[sickrubik]

YUP OKAY ON BOARD.

[eldaec]

Didn't look so much 'civil war' as '8 guys fight about what their annoying friend did' . But I'm reasonably confident it'll work out.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Didn't look so much 'civil war' as '8 guys fight about what their annoying friend did' . But I'm reasonably confident it'll work out.

Having no investment in the comic storyline the scale of this is just fine for me because it's to scale with the MCU.  All aboard the hype train!

[eldaec]

Is that Black Panther at about 1'50"?

[Khaldun]

Yup. Costume looks really good.

[RhyssaFireheart]

Looks like BP was fighting the Winter Soldier, so my guess is he's on Iron Man's team.  Interesting to see what appear to be the teams, too.  Cap, WS, Scarlet, Falcon versus IM, War Machine, BP(?) and who else?

[Lakov_Sanite]

Looks like BP was fighting the Winter Soldier, so my guess is he's on Iron Man's team.  Interesting to see what appear to be the teams, too.  Cap, WS, Scarlet, Falcon versus IM, War Machine, BP(?) and who else?

Hawkeye was with cap, I think Widow is with IM.

[RhyssaFireheart]

Looks like BP was fighting the Winter Soldier, so my guess is he's on Iron Man's team.  Interesting to see what appear to be the teams, too.  Cap, WS, Scarlet, Falcon versus IM, War Machine, BP(?) and who else?

Hawkeye was with cap, I think Widow is with IM.

I knew I'd forgotten someone on Cap's team.  Now I'm wondering how each person ends up on what team. 

[jgsugden]

Pending side switching, the teams are found earlier in the thread.

[Stewie]

Apparently Spiderman will make an appearance as well. And yeah, I think Widow is on IM/the governments side

[jgsugden]

The 'core of the sides' in the Civil War seem to be clear based upon some poster: http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/captain-america-concept-art-draws-up-the-sides-for-marvels-civil-war-825

[Merusk]

So the plot is "America's Son" decides to abandon the US because they're trying to kill his friend?

I guess it works but seems weak.

[sickrubik]

So the plot is "America's Son" decides to abandon the US because they're trying to kill his friend?

not... quite. America decides to register super powered people and Cap sides with the group that think that's un-american, given what he saw during WW2 and the Jewish people and Japanese-Americans.

[Merusk]

I get that's the plot of the comic book, but it only had brief mention in the trailer which sets things up as I described.

Cap: "Hey they're going to kill Bucky! I have to save him!"
Fed: "You can't just run around like a vigilante!"
Cap proceeds to act like a vigilante
IM: "Dude, you're acting like a vigilante and a bad bro."
Cap: "He's my friend though!"
IM: "So am I, bro, wtf!"

*Geriatric Beatdown*

[Riggswolfe]

So the plot is "America's Son" decides to abandon the US because they're trying to kill his friend?

not... quite. America decides to register super powered people and Cap sides with the group that think that's un-american, given what he saw during WW2 and the Jewish people and Japanese-Americans.

That's the comic plot. The trailer at least implies that it is more personal in the movie version.

[sickrubik]

Watch it again. The whole premise is centered around his best friend, but they also drop a BIG volume that is likely hte Registration Act on him and saying something to the effect that supers have been running around unchecked, but that time has come to an end.

I'm guessing the actions of Bucky and the events from Avengers 2 are going to jointly get us to this point.

It definitely personalizes it a lot more, but I think it's simplistic to say it's JUST that.

[Soln]

That was terrific. Here's hoping it's an inch as good as Winter Soldier.

[eldaec]

Trailer left me thinking they'd they be better off naming this for Bucky rather than for a shitty comic series with a different plot. Something like " Captain America : Winter Soldier ".

Also, kind of intrigued as to the fig leaf explanation for Black Panther getting involved. Assuming he is Wakandan in this version, and on the US Government team for some reason...

[HaemishM]

Watch it again. The whole premise is centered around his best friend, but they also drop a BIG volume that is likely hte Registration Act on him and saying something to the effect that supers have been running around unchecked, but that time has come to an end.

I'm guessing the actions of Bucky and the events from Avengers 2 are going to jointly get us to this point.

It definitely personalizes it a lot more, but I think it's simplistic to say it's JUST that.

The name of the registration legislation he drops on Cap is the same name as the village that Ultron almost turned into a floating extinction event in Age of Ultron. I'm gathering that the big building explosion in the trailer is blamed on Bucky/Winter Soldier and thus Cap tries to defend his friend, and everything snowballs from there.

[sickrubik]

Watch it again. The whole premise is centered around his best friend, but they also drop a BIG volume that is likely hte Registration Act on him and saying something to the effect that supers have been running around unchecked, but that time has come to an end.

I'm guessing the actions of Bucky and the events from Avengers 2 are going to jointly get us to this point.

It definitely personalizes it a lot more, but I think it's simplistic to say it's JUST that.

The name of the registration legislation he drops on Cap is the same name as the village that Ultron almost turned into a floating extinction event in Age of Ultron. I'm gathering that the big building explosion in the trailer is blamed on Bucky/Winter Soldier and thus Cap tries to defend his friend, and everything snowballs from there.

Ah, good point. Plus, there will likely be another acting agent that is likely the reason behind the scenes.

[Threash]

Looks like BP was fighting the Winter Soldier, so my guess is he's on Iron Man's team.  Interesting to see what appear to be the teams, too.  Cap, WS, Scarlet, Falcon versus IM, War Machine, BP(?) and who else?

Hawkeye was with cap, I think Widow is with IM.

I knew I'd forgotten someone on Cap's team.  Now I'm wondering how each person ends up on what team. 

Vision is supposed to be on Iron Mans team also, otherwise the team with SW would win easily.  I Imagine the effects simply aren't done to have him in the trailer.

[Velorath]

Trailer looks good (especially the beat down at the end), but I'd like to know where jgsugden ranks this as far as MCU trailers go.

[eldaec]

Watch it again. The whole premise is centered around his best friend, but they also drop a BIG volume that is likely hte Registration Act on him

The name of the registration legislation he drops on Cap is the same name as the village that Ultron almost turned into a floating extinction event in Age of Ultron.

Watching again I notice the 'legislation' is has a UN stamp on it and describes itself as an 'accord'.

Which probably helps solve some script issues around why Captain America is against it and Iron Man doesn't object, as well as why Black Panther gives a shit. Could even be an interesting angle if Disney are willing to include a thread about American exceptionalism or open the question around where institutions like SHIELD get their authority (yeah, I doubt it).

[Velorath]

Presumably they get their authority from the vaguely defined World Security Council we've seen in some of the movies.

One would think that Superheroes being allowed to act unrestricted as vigilantes across the globe would have been addressed immediately after IM1 given that he was operating in countries outside the U.S. (and of course the fact that there is no reason that superpowers or advanced technology should put you above the laws every country already has in place). I don't think there's anything the Civil War script can do to make it any less of a dumb plot point.

[Ironwood]

Tony getting his ass fucking kicked.   

[Evildrider]