Captain America: Civil War

[jgsugden]

We're close enough to release that this deserves discussion outside the Marvel thread.... I'm agreeing with others that we probably don't need threads for a Marvel movie until we get filming underway.  My bad on the Dr. Strange thread...

Recent rumor:

[Hutch]

Honestly, does this movie need more characters? General Ross, if present, will probably be in the end credits. Or maybe he's General Ross in the actual movie, and Red Hulk in the credits. Either way, he's probably just setting up a not yet announced Hulk sequel.

[Evildrider]

Well, Sam Jackson isn't scheduled to be in the movie.  Which seems pretty strange for him to be left out.  Also that Red Hulk stuff is really probably people just reaching for rumors.  If they were to introduce another Hulk, it should be She Hulk.

[HaemishM]

Let me guess... this rumor comes from a "reliable source" (otherwise known as Latino Review)? 

[Lakov_Sanite]

Rumor or not, they need to learn the lessons of Avengers2, that thing was a bloated mess.

[jgsugden]

Ross is confirmed through Marvel casting.

Hulk sequel is off the board for a while.  Although Marvel has rights to a Hulk solo movie, the distribution rights for a Hulk solo movie are not Marvel's.  As such, they'd be giving their pie to someone else.  Why do a movie where you give up a portion of the profits when you can do a different movie and get all the profits - and still use the character you have limited rights to as a selling point because it is not a solo film.  It is unclear, as far as I know, how long the distribution rights are screwed up.

[Velorath]

I think Red Hulk is a horrifically dumb character and hope to never see him in the movies. I don't really buy into this rumor anyway because I don't think the audience wants a rehash of the Hulk/Iron Man fight only a year later.

[Lantyssa]

There are going to be opposing sides.  They need an anti-hulk or else he's an "I win".  Without something like the Red Hulk then you get the exact same fight again, because what besides the Hulk Buster can stand up to him?

[Ironwood]

I'm still a bit annoyed that the Hulk Buster worked.  Since it didn't seem to right up until he fell over.

[Rishathra]

I was actually rather pleased that it worked.  I'm tired of the worn out trope of "thing designed to beat something fails spectacularly at beating it."  This is especially true regarding Iron Man's -buster line of suits.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the comics, don't they stand at or near a 100% fail rate?

[Lakov_Sanite]

Also in avengers one the hulk actually gets tired of killing aliens and smashing loki to the point of exhaustion at the end.  The simple answer is that the MCU power levels of the hulk vary from the comics, he's just not an unstoppable god in the movies like he is in the comics and I'm fine with that.

[Ironwood]

Not sure I read that scene as exhaustion, more of getting shot at by every fighter the Chitauri had.

The easiest way to read the Hulkbuster scene, of course, is just to say 'Hulk wasn't in his own comic at the time'.  If he had been, he'd have won.

[Trippy]

Well Banner did help design it.

[Evildrider]

[Khaldun]

The problem in the comics has always been that if a certain thing can be used to beat the Hulk, it's like kryptonite only in a universe where everyone wants to beat Superman--you'd have to have lots of scenes where the Hulk outthinks or outwits the user of whatever it is, which breaks the character. Even the "strongest one that is" has to have some things that can seriously threaten him, otherwise he's boring, but most of the things that can risk become boring in their own right.

[Ironwood]

Well Banner did help design it.

Also, Ultron.  How'd that work out ?

[Trippy]

Pretty good if you factor in the creation of the Vision?

[Ironwood]

Unless, like in the comics, Vision is just the Trojan Horse for Ultron later.

CHECKMATE.

[Lantyssa]

Or he bothered to make a backup disk.

[Evildrider]

Although Stark is credited as the one who made Ultron, is it really his beyond the name?  It appeared to me that he just completed what Strucker had started.  He wasn't even the one that really did too much, it was more the AI mixed with the mind gem that ended up becoming Ultron.  Even Ultron's army was already in the process of being made at the Hydra base.

[Ironwood]

Yes.

[jgsugden]

I'm still a bit annoyed that the Hulk Buster worked.  Since it didn't seem to right up until he fell over.

I read that as Hulk stopped being influenced by the Witch, he started to calm and become less Hulky, and then Iron Man sucker punched him.  You see the Hulk go slack jawed before he gets hit that last time.

[kaid]

The problem in the comics has always been that if a certain thing can be used to beat the Hulk, it's like kryptonite only in a universe where everyone wants to beat Superman--you'd have to have lots of scenes where the Hulk outthinks or outwits the user of whatever it is, which breaks the character. Even the "strongest one that is" has to have some things that can seriously threaten him, otherwise he's boring, but most of the things that can risk become boring in their own right.

The hulks biggest thing that threatens him is himself. He is such a wild card that he is nearly as often an opponent as he is an ally simply because he normally is such an out of control rage beast he has a very tenuous grasp of friend and foe. When they make him smart enough to overcome that is where the problems come in. In the form he is in the avengers movie he is about perfect. Some slight control but overall you only want to stir the pot of crazy if the situation is so bad and its such a target rich environment that he simply has a higher likely hood of punching enemies than friendlies.

[Ironwood]

While true, he is at least shown in the movies to be able to control himself and (when not mind controlled) regards the other Avengers as 'Not Targets'.

[HaemishM]

I think the Hulkbuster scene in AoU worked and made perfect sense. They wore the Hulk down but the Hulk also finally got enough of a sense of the damage he'd been doing that he calmed down enough to be put down by the sucker punch from the Hulkbuster armor. The MCU has done a very good job of making the Hulk beatable while still making him insanely powerful enough to be a threat to everyone and everything. Hence the reason he's only used on a "Code Green" level threat.

[NowhereMan]

I now really want a scene near the beginning of A3 where, at the end of the opening fight as everyone is starting to calm down after the victory Thor goes up to the Hulk to congratulate him and an exhausted Hulk just reactively punches him full force and sends him flying. As well as opening scene comedy I think it would be cool to see that Hulk really is unpredictable and potentially as dangerous to his allies as everyone else.

[MahrinSkel]

Didn't they do exactly that in Avengers 1?

--Dave

Edit: Yes; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrDXseJRJIk

[Trippy]

I never noticed Thor drove the spike deeper into the beast's back. I need to watch that movie again.

[Ironwood]

Yes, he did.  Say what you like, but Avengers 1 and 2 were VERY good for powers stunts during the fight scenes.  It really, really, really looked like they spent ages training to be a proper team.

Which, of course, is ironic, because according to the timeline of the movie, they really, really didn't.

[Lantyssa]

Edit: Yes; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrDXseJRJIk

Hulk knew it was Thor though.  It was payback/teasing because of their earlier fight on the helicarrier.

[Fordel]

Yea that wasn't about loss of control, that was Hulk going 'haha fuck you blondie' 

[kaid]

Yup and hulk also knew it would not really harm thor so it was more like a mischevious brother wacking another brother type shot.

[jgsugden]

The 'core of the sides' in the Civil War seem to be clear based upon some poster: http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/captain-america-concept-art-draws-up-the-sides-for-marvels-civil-war-825

[Khaldun]

Thunderbolt Ross is in the film but no fucking way are they doing Red Hulk. Unless they're stupid. If they're smart, they'll stay away from the Abomination as well. Those are Latino Review-style 'speculations', meaning somebody who knows comic books is just throwing a bunch of references out there and figuring they'll be right on a few of them. Same way Jeane Dixon used to make "psychic predictions".

I'm assuming that Black Widow is a mole, but maybe not.

[jgsugden]

If we're ignoring spoiler tags....

Scarlet Witch isn't mentioned, but I believe we know she is in the film.

As for whether the Hulk / Red Hulk / Abomination third act is speculation or more: I called it a rumor for a reason.