Avengers: Age of Ultron.

[Trippy]

I don't think we live in an age where big budget movies can sit back and say "trust us guys this'll be good".

That is what they did with Guardians of the Galaxy.

That was their attitude, mostly because it was a new property to a lot of people.... but they followed the same conventions for Trailers as they always do.

Hell, there were 7-11 slurpee cups.

I wasn't referring the marketing blitz for GotG -- I was referring to them not revealing so much of the plot in the trailers.

[sickrubik]

And I was making the point that they treated it the same as any movie. What plot points WEREN'T realized in the final trailers for GoG? I'm guessing there will be stuff in A2 that hasn't been shown yet too.

[jgsugden]

If anyone here feels they know enough to write a page long summary of AoU, feel free.  We know a lot of beats, but there is clearly still a lot left open at this point. 

[Samwise]

I predict that the Avengers will have to learn to put aside their differences and work together as a team in order to stop Ultron from using a big thing that will shoot a big beam of light into the sky, or explode, or something, and they will do this by punching and shooting lots of smaller Ultron things.

[Khaldun]

You know, I'm struggling to think of how you tell a story about a bunch of superpowered people working together who are not family and not "of a type" (Fantastic Four for the first, X-Men for the second) where you don't do the "put aside your differences and stop the bad guy from doing very bad things" on some level. It's all about the execution.

Not that I'd be hostile to a very different plot structure if someone wants to try it, it's just that I'm not sure there IS one that goes with those characters set in that kind of universe. About the only one I can think of that isn't quite like that is "enemy targets the good guys one-by-one through cunning and trickery" and maybe "equal and opposite group of bad guys fights the good guys in a huge free-for-all". But even those tend to have some of the same plot beats.

There's always, "Good guys lose/Good guys win but sort of ambiguously", I guess.

[jgsugden]

There needs to be conflict, but the conflict doesn't need to be between the heroes.  You can start with a united team and have them struggle to stay together against forces that pull them apart without having the forces pushing them apart be their own differences.

[Khaldun]

Except, honestly, is that a good story?

Who starts as united and then has to endure attempts to separate/divide?

Basically, the military. Maybe a few other kinds of professional, institutionalized groups. Cops. Hospital personnel. Professors. People who work together and share a professional or vocational code.

Comic-book superheroes are by their nature one-of-a-kind. Even back in the Silver Age, the characters didn't always have the same discipline, professional outlook, etc. and Marvel super-heroes never did, ever. For them it's always been the ur-narrative of "people who are flying their own freak flag and doing their own thing who recognize a need to work together for the common good because of the situation".

Which story feels more real in 21st C. America? Highly professionalized dudes who need to resist some malicious attempt to split them apart, or people who normally could do their own thing but have to work together? The former feels to me like it's always going to be nonsense bullshit that is nothing like anything real, it's GI Joe horseshit; the latter at least is something we're all wishing for even if we don't actually do it.

[jgsugden]

The beauty of the comics medium is that you can tell any type of story in it. It can be a war film, a political thriller, a romance, a bromance, a comedy, a family story, a western, a horror story, porn, or anything else. Comic book is a setting, not a story type. I do not think we're required to have conflict between the protagonists to make a good action film.

[Maven]

I think the point of his response went over your head.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Except, honestly, is that a good story?

Who starts as united and then has to endure attempts to separate/divide?

Basically, the military. Maybe a few other kinds of professional, institutionalized groups. Cops. Hospital personnel. Professors. People who work together and share a professional or vocational code.

Comic-book superheroes are by their nature one-of-a-kind. Even back in the Silver Age, the characters didn't always have the same discipline, professional outlook, etc. and Marvel super-heroes never did, ever. For them it's always been the ur-narrative of "people who are flying their own freak flag and doing their own thing who recognize a need to work together for the common good because of the situation".

Which story feels more real in 21st C. America? Highly professionalized dudes who need to resist some malicious attempt to split them apart, or people who normally could do their own thing but have to work together? The former feels to me like it's always going to be nonsense bullshit that is nothing like anything real, it's GI Joe horseshit; the latter at least is something we're all wishing for even if we don't actually do it.

To actually reply to your point I would say the most recent fast and furious movies are "GI Joe done right" when you want to find a team of individuals without inter-team conflicts.

[jgsugden]

I think the point of his response went over your head.

Or....

[Fordel]

Except, honestly, is that a good story?

Who starts as united and then has to endure attempts to separate/divide?

Basically, the military. Maybe a few other kinds of professional, institutionalized groups. Cops. Hospital personnel. Professors. People who work together and share a professional or vocational code.

Comic-book superheroes are by their nature one-of-a-kind. Even back in the Silver Age, the characters didn't always have the same discipline, professional outlook, etc. and Marvel super-heroes never did, ever. For them it's always been the ur-narrative of "people who are flying their own freak flag and doing their own thing who recognize a need to work together for the common good because of the situation".

Which story feels more real in 21st C. America? Highly professionalized dudes who need to resist some malicious attempt to split them apart, or people who normally could do their own thing but have to work together? The former feels to me like it's always going to be nonsense bullshit that is nothing like anything real, it's GI Joe horseshit; the latter at least is something we're all wishing for even if we don't actually do it.

To actually reply to your point I would say the most recent fast and furious movies are "GI Joe done right" when you want to find a team of individuals without inter-team conflicts.

Would Ocean's 11 fit that mold?

[Lakov_Sanite]

Definitely similar but the time of a suspense/heist movie is a Lott different than an action one so it may not be a good comparison.  Team based action with dissimilar individuals happens easily once the audience agrees that they all have sufficient reason to get along. For the avengers it's the shared experiences of New York that gives them a respect for one another. While avengers 2 might have them butting heads there is no longer a need to devote time to them all getting along like the first one.

[Threash]

If they don't cool it with the mind control superheroes fighting each other is going to be old hat by the time civil war rolls around.

[Lakov_Sanite]

If they don't cool it with the mind control superheroes fighting each other is going to be old hat by the time civil war rolls around.

Any dramatic tension uncivil war would be undercut if mind control had anything to do with tony stark or Steve Rogers motivations.  Mind control is just a shit plot device comics overuse to explain heroes doin unpalatable or controversial things without fans jumping ship and has no place is a narrative as genuine motivation. 

The only place it can work is in the most comic booky of stories an where the plot does not revolve solely around it.  Av2 is about beating up ultron, the inevitable power creep of super universes and wanting to protect the world against it. Wanda popping in with her powers will be a nice distraction but the movie doesn't seem to revolve around that solely.

[UnSub]

The beauty of the comics medium is that you can tell any type of story in it. It can be a war film, a political thriller, a romance, a bromance, a comedy, a family story, a western, a horror story, porn, or anything else. Comic book is a setting, not a story type. I do not think we're required to have conflict between the protagonists to make a good action film.

In a film with so many characters, conflict is the only way those characters get some screen time.

And the genre here is "comic book superhero", which means we upgrade the two fights and a chase comic book formula to three fights and two chases to fill in the time.

[Ironwood]

New TV Spot manages to reveal EVEN MORE of the story.  To silly proportions.

Sigh.

[jgsugden]

Out of curiosity, what did you see in that preview that seemed like a reveal to you?  There were new images, but nothing new story wise that was not already known AFAICT.

[01101010]

Man this movie just convinces me I have aged out of the "in" crowd. I get that it is a comic book movie and it is all flash and whatnot, but the little stuff like non-reality physics of stuff just annoys me. The flash and effects look great, but so do Michael Bay 'splosions.'

Move me into the "i hate fun" crowd I guess.

[Lakov_Sanite]

"non-reality physics" Is pretty much every comic book ever.

[01101010]

"non-reality physics" Is pretty much every comic book ever.

Yeah... I get that. But seeing it in a movie in a pseudo-real world setting pains me.

[jgsugden]

They're slowly moving from Iron Man (as real as we can be while still having a guy in a flying suit) to Doctor Strange.  I think this movie really jumps the guppy and takes us into the world of comic books that they've slowly been building towards.  We get Superpowers that are more than strength, speed, endurance and energy blasts.  We get an army of sentient robots.  We get the super comic physics of Thor batting Cap's shield through an enemy legion.  We get an introduction to the other facets of the Marvel universe ... It has been a slow buildup, but this is the movie that turns the corner and takes the comics truly onto the screen.

[sickrubik]

A few people that have seen bits of it or had access to the script say there's a lot that hasn't been revealed in the trailers up until now, FWIW.

Honestly, while having a whole lot of new footage, it didn't really seem to reveal much more than was already revealed.

[Malakili]

Spoilers: The avengers fight Ultron and win.  Some other stuff happens.


Seriously guys, it's a fun summer super hero movie, are we really hemming and hawing over 30 seconds of footage?

[Samwise]

Spoilers: The avengers fight Ultron and win.

   PUT IT IN TAGS, YOU MONSTER!

[Tannhauser]

Spoilers: The avengers fight Ultron and win.  Some other stuff happens.


Seriously guys, it's a fun summer super hero movie, are we really hemming and hawing over 30 seconds of footage?

I didn't watch it and won't watch any more trailers until release.  SRS BSNS

[01101010]

Seriously guys, it's a fun summer super hero movie, are we really hemming and hawing over 30 seconds of footage?

New around these parts? 

[Velorath]

Out of curiosity, what did you see in that preview that seemed like a reveal to you?  There were new images, but nothing new story wise that was not already known AFAICT.

I'm guessing for Ironwood it was less a matter of giving away key plot points, and more the fact this it gives away cool moments that would have been nice to have not seen before watching the movie (what Thor does with Cap's shield for instance).

[Ironwood]

Also, "In the previous trailers, you two were clearly baddies, tho the knowing audience knows different.  In this one, let's have Hawkeye say specifically that Olsen and Kick Ass are gonna be Avengers and then show them fighting Ultron."

All of that was one wee step too far.  And yes, way too many of the cool bits. 

[eldaec]

"non-reality physics" Is pretty much every comic book ever.

Yeah... I get that. But seeing it in a movie in a pseudo-real world setting pains me.

The degree of artistic abstraction on a comic book page definitely makes it is easier to sell a guy punching a tank or whatever.

Achieving the same in a live action film is harder. They've done well so far, but each time they take it up another notch it gets harder. I'm glad they're trying, even if it risks blowing up the gravy train.

As for the prior trailers, I thought those two were good guys back then as well. I haven't seen the new one, but the importance of not watching anything but the teasers is well ingrained now.

[01101010]

The degree of artistic abstraction on a comic book page definitely makes it is easier to sell a guy punching a tank or whatever.

Achieving the same in a live action film is harder. They've done well so far, but each time they take it up another notch it gets harder. I'm glad they're trying, even if it risks blowing up the gravy train.

As for the prior trailers, I thought those two were good guys back then as well. I haven't seen the new one, but the importance of not watching anything but the teasers is well ingrained now.

Punching a tank I can wrap my head around. Capt America's shield flipping end over end at a constant pace is fine, but when it pauses to let Thor hit it with a hammer and then somehow stop flipping and start spinning like a buzz saw...

Maybe this one little thing bothers me because I have hit frisbees enough times with bats back in the day to know that shit doesn't do that, ever. It looks fun, but just not my kinda fun, and I am ok with that.

[Evildrider]

Yes, but have you ever hit an unbreakable shield (that absorbs vibrations) with a magic hammer (formed in a dying star) with the strength of a god.

[Tannhauser]

Or, Howard Stark created a shield made from rare earth metals that deflected the force of a very high technology device disguised as a hammer.

[Pennilenko]

Or, Howard Stark created a shield made from rare earth metals that deflected the force of a very high technology device disguised as a hammer.

Sorry, but I prefer to view the situation the way Evildrider describes it.

[Sir T]

THOR IS NOT A GOD!! he's just a godlike Alien yo.