Crowfall aka Play2Crush aka Shadowbane II aka Nostalgia Online

[Speedy Cerviche]

Can someone explain to me how ranged classes will hit anyone in pvp with that kind of system?  Melee and AOE might work, but non hitscan ranged projectiles just don't work in mmos.

In Darkfall stuff like archery had pretty fast velocity, and mages had high velocity bolt spells, and also basically short range instant action ray spells. The hardest part of hitting people was related to character movement being too fast, and very little momentum retention allowing spasmatic dodgeing techniques.

In the Crowfall video there most of those spells seem to be instant or pretty high velocity, some speeds might need to be tweaked up, but it's really not a problem as long as you realize your game is going to have a harder skill curve than a typical MMORPG with combat lock-ons and hit scan. Completely skilless people who have difficulty keeping their avatar faced in the proper general direction of AI mobs probably won't be able to hack it, just like they couldn't in any sort of action game. Nothing wrong with that, there's a lot of FPS players out there who would be interested in similar style action but in a meatier RPG world, just has to be executed and balanced well.

[Trippy]

Can someone explain to me how ranged classes will hit anyone in pvp with that kind of system?  Melee and AOE might work, but non hitscan ranged projectiles just don't work in mmos.

They do in TERA.

[Paelos]

I'm looking forward to giving a shit about this in 2016. Until then nothing they say matters to me.

[WayAbvPar]

Thanks for that edgy hot take.

[Paelos]

Thanks for that edgy hot take.

It's the sausage getting made part of gaming that KS stuff has really exposed. Some people are into that I suppose, but for me this creates the unrealistic expectation feedback loop that fucks up your development cycle far more than if you just designed it in a vaccuum up to a certain point. That's what the alpha video says to me. It's explaining something that may or may not even exist in that form or look relatable after testing. But since you are showing to people it creates dialogue and expectation. It creates questions and adds comments to the development. Which they feel they have to give users to explain how their money is being spent. Even though we aren't investors anymore, so really they are just trying to attract new money.

I just want them to make the game and release limited information in the meantime until they get closer to workable products. Less talk.

Better?

[Malakili]

I remember when I used to wait with bated breath for every shred of information about the games I wanted to play.  This reached a fever pitch of sorts with WAR for me personally ( ).  Although I have ultimately gotten quite a bit more value out of early access (Minecraft, Project Zomboid, Hex, H1Z1) than I have been burned by early access (Cube World, Prison Architect), I have to admit that now that the initial buzz over that funding model is over I kind of have to agree with Paelos on this one.

[Threash]

I just want them to make the game and release limited information in the meantime until they get closer to workable products. Less talk.

Better?

I'm sure that would be the plan if they didn't need more money.

[WayAbvPar]

I am not disagreeing with the sentiment, just the post. It adds absolutely nothing to the discussion. If you don't care about the news, why post?

[Paelos]

I am not disagreeing with the sentiment, just the post. It adds absolutely nothing to the discussion. If you don't care about the news, why post?

Well first off the Chris Roberts thread is the posterchild for that kind of thing so 

Second, I want to like the game which sort of means I'm forced to keep track of it, because if I don't that means other idiots get to have their opinions heard and the devs may respond. They may not. But the idea they are opening themselves up this early for criticism bothers me.

I don't want to give a shit now because I just want to them to build it and come back for opinions when it's semi-ready. That's not the way this is going to work though.

[Threash]

They pretty much have to, this is basically "our game exists, look at it, give us money".

[Paelos]

They pretty much have to, this is basically "our game exists, look at it, give us money".

No and that's the problem when you have tiered funded. They didn't raise all their money in one swoop. They raised some.

That means they have to be continually campaigning like a career politician. And we all know how great that is.

[Threash]

Someone explain to me if this is good or bad.

[Goreschach]

It's a buzzword laden bullshit hype article written by someone who has obviously never written an animation system before.

tl;dr version is they tried some stupid shit that anyone familiar with net based game architecture would have dismissed offhand. Turns out it didn't work and now they're changing shit. Shocking.

[Draegan]

It was written by the guy who helped develop combat for DCUO.

[ezrast]

Unfortunately, even in 2015, the best roundtrip from a client, through the servers and back to the client is about 150ms-250ms.

[Merusk]

I don't think he meant ping alone there. It was Ping + movement processing time.

[ezrast]

A quarter of a second is still a really long time for that. All I can figure is that he meant "the best roundtrip that we can count on from a client..." as in, the worst-case scenario that they still want to be able to support.

That, or he somehow threw an extra zero onto both numbers.

[Draegan]

A quarter of a second is still a really long time for that. All I can figure is that he meant "the best roundtrip that we can count on from a client..." as in, the worst-case scenario that they still want to be able to support.

That, or he somehow threw an extra zero onto both numbers.

That's how I read it.

[tmp]

A quarter of a second is still a really long time for that. All I can figure is that he meant "the best roundtrip that we can count on from a client..." as in, the worst-case scenario that they still want to be able to support.

That, or he somehow threw an extra zero onto both numbers.

It's a MMO so it likely includes times when connecting from long distances and/or overseas, not just from next city over a hill, and/or over average (or worse) instead of the best there is infrastructure. ~200 msec is typical round trip for me when connecting from backward parts of EU to somewhere in NA.

[Xuri]

Trivia: I had 150ms ping to Atlantic server in UO, once, from Norway :P

Fake edit: Woah. Just tried, and now I have 118ms. Hmm. maybe I should play UO again.

[Slayerik]

Play fake UO with me on a free shard. ;) Still playing it cause basically it's still the best PVP around.

[Triforcer]

Next stretch goal is male Assassin- happy about this because Assassin is my class and I wanted a male character.  Always had to play a witch elf in WAR because I hated Order.

[Threash]

Next stretch goal is male Assassin- happy about this because Assassin is my class and I wanted a male character.  Always had to play a witch elf in WAR because I hated Order.

Very happy about that myself. I understand why they needed to gender lock a buncha archtypes but something as generic and popular as assassin shouldn't have been one of them.  Also this already looks way better than camelot unchained.

[Threash]

Also this already looks way better than camelot unchained.

Like i said.  Skip to 18:30 or so for the current state of the game.

[Threash]

Pre alpha streams going

[Falconeer]

I watched a few hours of this last night, and I walked away with nothing. Not positive nor negative: it's a pre-alpha and it's impossible to form a judgement. Also, as to be expected everyone was complaining about latency and input lag, so I doubt even those who tried would have a real opinion as of yet. Draegan played and streamed some of it, he would be our best source of information.

[Threash]

That they have come this far in the few months since the kickstarter ended does give me some hope that they can put out an actual game in the time frame they claim.

[Nija]

They haven't even done the first 80%. Forget about the other 80%.

[Draegan]

Games require 160%.

[Triforcer]

My slate pitch on this is that I don't need a mind-blowing and revolutionary combat system in an SB- style MMO.  Just make the SB parts (city building, etc.) better with combat that does not completely blow goats.  All this DCUO style combo shit does nothing for me- WAR style tab targeting would be good enough.  It's getting the SB part right that would make this revolutionary, as opposed to trying to create the cold fusion of combat systems on a 5 mil budget.

[Draegan]

Tab target system is an instant turn off for me. It's why I have no interest in Camelot unchained.

[Threash]

The only game to do a fun pvp tab target system was Age of Wushu, i much prefer action combat like DCUO or Tera but i would be ok with something like that. Their philosophy is that combat is what matters the most, so yeah expect to see plenty of focus on it.

[Nija]

Games require 160%.

The 80/20 rule. The last 20% takes 80% of the time. It's the other 80%.

[Draegan]

The only game to do a fun pvp tab target system was Age of Wushu, i much prefer action combat like DCUO or Tera but i would be ok with something like that. Their philosophy is that combat is what matters the most, so yeah expect to see plenty of focus on it.

Wushu was in it's own realm of awful.

[Threash]

Yeah, but the combat was really good and fun.