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Author Topic: Crowfall aka Play2Crush aka Shadowbane II aka Nostalgia Online  (Read 541191 times)
Falconeer
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Reply #1225 on: January 22, 2016, 02:07:14 AM

This is really, really interesting. A chart that shows the availability of resources. As you can see, you won't be able to farm any resource higher than tier 4 in your own super safe Eternal Kingdom, and even that will be ultra rare. As you go up in the hardcore-level of a campaign, you will be able to find better resources whereas the tier 8 ones will only be available in the loot-all free-for-all perma-lose campaign known as "Dregs".

Not sure if this is final, but it sounds intense. Higher risk = higher reward.

Also, new and improved FAQ about parcels: http://crowfall.com/en/faq/parcelbuilder/




DayDream
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Reply #1226 on: January 22, 2016, 03:45:35 AM

Ever wondered how big decisions in the development of a MMORPG are made? Be a fly on the wall for ten minutes.

I'm so far beyond ignorance in this that it's absurd, and I shouldn't be talking.  Plausibly theater anyway, etc.


But that seemed like a really inefficient meeting.  Is that... normal?  It might explain some things, if it was.


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Reply #1227 on: January 22, 2016, 04:54:44 AM

Somehow, to me, they seem so confused about some elements, that I can't believe it's theatre. I'm afraid it's authentic.

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Reply #1228 on: January 22, 2016, 12:29:45 PM

Ever wondered how big decisions in the development of a MMORPG are made? Be a fly on the wall for ten minutes.

I'm so far beyond ignorance in this that it's absurd, and I shouldn't be talking.  Plausibly theater anyway, etc.


But that seemed like a really inefficient meeting.  Is that... normal?  It might explain some things, if it was.

It looked like every creative meeting I've ever been a part of so it looked normal to me. There's a reason the successful guys in this area are able to collaborate but ALSO have a reputation for very strong opinions and forcing their vision through and you're seeing it.

Everyone loves to spitball, few love to say, "This is what it is. Go with it" because that means ownership of the idea if it fails.

The resource chart doesn't look like any sort of new news other than fixing how many tiers there are. It's stuff I was talking about pages ago.

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Falconeer
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Reply #1229 on: January 22, 2016, 12:34:54 PM

Yes we knew about the resource chart because they have been saying that was the model for a year now, but it's nice to finally see it "laminated" and detailed.

Triforcer
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Reply #1230 on: January 22, 2016, 09:48:58 PM

Did anyone in UO actually use their rare/high grade armors and weapons for anything other than 10 on 1 seal clubbings deep in friendly territory?  If ore 1  is plentiful and there is any chance of corpse looting or fast decay, everyone will wear ore 1 90 percent of the time.

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Reply #1231 on: January 23, 2016, 07:37:06 AM

Did anyone in UO actually use their rare/high grade armors and weapons for anything other than 10 on 1 seal clubbings deep in friendly territory?  If ore 1  is plentiful and there is any chance of corpse looting or fast decay, everyone will wear ore 1 90 percent of the time.

The return of the lootless army https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.games.computer.ultima.online/BHw30Jf3UDQ%5B1-25%5D
Segoris
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Reply #1232 on: January 23, 2016, 08:58:44 AM

Did anyone in UO actually use their rare/high grade armors and weapons for anything other than 10 on 1 seal clubbings deep in friendly territory?  If ore 1  is plentiful and there is any chance of corpse looting or fast decay, everyone will wear ore 1 90 percent of the time.

This is a bit different since you only have full inventory loot, not full inventory and equipment loot (depend on the setting of the campaign). By default and what we know right now, I think it's safe to say that in the Dregs with higher chances of equipment dropping then yeah the good gear will likely be used more conservatively. In God's Reach/The Infected if the campaign allows people to bring in loot it will be the best armor to use at all times.
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Reply #1233 on: January 23, 2016, 11:37:38 AM

100% authentic and 100% worthless and inefficient. The number of worthless meetings I've been in game dev surpasses all other industries I've been in combined.

You have to remember, most game developers couldn't cut it doing anything else. And design by committee is what allows a team to support one persons rise to mediocrity, where funding and accolades exist.

Anyway, game development fucking sucks.
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Reply #1234 on: January 23, 2016, 12:53:45 PM

I really hope it ends up that you can export the best ore out of the dregs so that any crafter can buy it and anyone can buy the items made from it. Let the hardcore players get rich and key everyone have a chance of owning the gear if they can grind up enough gold.
Segoris
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Reply #1235 on: January 23, 2016, 01:44:49 PM

That's what the whole embargo system is. A way to take loot from the campaigns and make them tradeable with anyone, with limitations based on how well you/your guild did. Basically, the limitation is to prevent people joining a campaign at the end of it and loading up on mats when they didn't really help.
DayDream
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Reply #1236 on: January 24, 2016, 02:37:27 AM

I had a feeling that was the sort of thing I was looking at.  And it does explain to me, with the wonderfully clarity that only comes from seeing it yourself, exactly why so many obvious design errors are made, dates are missed, and budgets blown to smithereens.
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Reply #1237 on: January 27, 2016, 08:10:21 AM


Threash
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Reply #1238 on: February 04, 2016, 09:28:03 AM

Whatever they did on their last update made the controls a lot better.  Had a lot of fun playing a few games of hunger dome this morning, while before it was just frustrating.

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Reply #1239 on: February 05, 2016, 02:36:26 AM

My experience wasn't any better. Granted, I had 180 ms ping, but I've never had that many delay in ANY game before. I assume this is because it is still all server-side, which is good to counter cheating, but at the moment, after the famous "controller rework", it is still all just a very VERY bad tech demo. I will give it a go tonight on the EU servers and with much lower latency, but damn I have to be honest combat so far, between sad animations and insane unresponsiveness, is quite the disaster. I really hate to say this.

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Reply #1240 on: February 05, 2016, 05:36:31 AM

Did you play it before?

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Falconeer
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Reply #1241 on: February 05, 2016, 06:08:21 AM

Yes, and it was 10 times worse. Still...  swamp poop

Anyway, I'll comment again after the EU test.

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Reply #1242 on: February 05, 2016, 11:06:28 AM

Tried again on EU. 40ms ping. The lag is gone which means the biggest excuse is gone too. It's pre-alpha, and I want this game to succeed so bad that I am clearly biased in favour of it, but what they have so far is a joke  ( more swamp poop )

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Reply #1243 on: February 05, 2016, 12:01:20 PM

No, the biggest excuse is that it's pre-alpha. The game is going to be garbage because that designation (should) mean it's not even ready for a full-on test. You're just making sure shit doesn't set the servers on fire or is actually able to run.

One of the dumbest mistakes developers ever did was letting marketing people sell alpha access after they saw the bitching Beta access would generate. Now we have pre-alpha and all the attendant "this is garbage" comments. Serves them right.

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Reply #1244 on: February 05, 2016, 12:59:49 PM

You are definitely right about that. But since pre-alphas have been around for a while now, we all know that any game can play and feel much better than this does even in its infancy, especially after they just reworked and improved the controller or whatever that is. When the action in game that is supposed to have a solid combat before anything else is so awkward and awful, and a lot of the testers seem to be happy with it, then it's a bit worrysome.

Two more things:

1) Without selling pre-alpha accounts, this project wouldn't exist so I am not sure they had any other option.
2) They certainly have enough time to fix it. I am just a bit nervous because I've been reading all the dev posts and the comments that they seem to listen to, and on top of playing like shit, I'm starting to think that they don't know exactly what they want to do and how to get there with the combat feel.

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Reply #1245 on: February 05, 2016, 01:05:08 PM

Every pre-alpha is going to be different. Some will be bullshit marketing terms to make people feel special, some will be legit pre-alphas. Some will have janky half-completed systems thrown together, some will only tag on a feature at a time, depending on how their workflow is.

As for "it wouldn't exist without pre-alpha." The devs had an option, they just chose not to pursue it. I wouldn't either if there's a million suckers willing to hand-over their money so I didn't have to take the risk on myself.

Point number two? You just have to watch those fly-on-the-wall videos to know that's the case.

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Reply #1246 on: February 05, 2016, 08:06:55 PM

I don't get the gloom and doom, i thought it was fine.

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Reply #1247 on: February 06, 2016, 11:38:48 AM

Maybe it's more obvious for some classes. There's no feeling of hitting anything, there's no flow between the animations, the Centaur for example has a wind up animation on a lot of skill which is intentional and the opposite of of "responsive", and when you do the most basic attack with left mouse you slowly advance with each hit. Meaning that to kill a mob you have to hit, then move back, then hit, then move back. And this is a perfect example of their confusion as this was a change they introduced as a result of some players complaining the combat was too static.

Now every one of my complaints could be argued over, but the reality is that the combat feel is just terrible. Pre-alpha or not, the fundamentals are alarmingly missing in a way that seems the result of cluelessness more than technical immaturity.

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Reply #1248 on: February 09, 2016, 04:43:09 AM

SB-type games don't need good combat, they just need not-bad combat with a really really good meta game overlay.  I still wish they would have done tab targeting and concentrated on the SB aspects.  You aren't going to revolutionize MMO pvp on the micro level with 6 million, even if you didn't spend a cent on anything else.

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Reply #1249 on: February 09, 2016, 08:01:08 AM

I would have agreed years ago, when there were less games, less distractions, and more focus. Now, everything needs good combat. If an experience is not at least smooth then not enough people are gonna bother for more than a month. Also, this attitude is the wrong one here: Crowfall makers have been raving about how much they want to nail down an amazing combat based on physics since day one, and we almost believed them because they have the guy who did the combat for some DC Universe game or something. And now we are already starting to absorb the blow saying that combat doesn't need to be good? Sure, what's the next resizing?

I think they CAN make it better, they have a lot of time. But in no way I believe this game can go far with a bad combat.

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Reply #1250 on: February 09, 2016, 09:31:41 AM

I did not back this for awesome, TERA style combat. I want some interesting RvR stuff; if the combat is serviceable tab-target stuff, that's fine by me.

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Reply #1251 on: February 09, 2016, 09:37:37 AM

I did not back this for awesome, TERA style combat. I want some interesting RvR stuff; if the combat is serviceable tab-target stuff, that's fine by me.

The point is that no matter the foundational combat system (tab-targetting, tera style, whatever) it has to be fun and not suck. 
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Reply #1252 on: February 09, 2016, 09:41:50 AM

If it goes tab-targetting, they've failed in my mind. That's the copout that puts you in the same combat category as WoW pvp with a different skin. They've specifically said that they don't want tab-targets.

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Reply #1253 on: February 09, 2016, 01:44:41 PM

I did not back this for awesome, TERA style combat. I want some interesting RvR stuff; if the combat is serviceable tab-target stuff, that's fine by me.

The point is that no matter the foundational combat system (tab-targetting, tera style, whatever) it has to be fun and not suck. 
Sure, it has to not suck. It doesn't need to be fun for it's own sake; if the combat is acceptable but the rest of the game is awesome, I'll still be happy. I mentioned TERA specifically because it was fun just running around killing monsters; the combat was fun on it's own. The combat in WoW is not fun on it's own, but doing other activities (PVP, raids, whatever floats your boat) can be fun using their combat system as a base.

This is all my personal preference, obviously. There are those who backed this looking for great combat; I'm just not among them.

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Reply #1254 on: February 09, 2016, 09:24:14 PM

There is a lot of space between "wow tab targeting" and "must be new and revolutionary and the best MMO combat ever."  Something AOCish or ESOish would be fine too.  I continue to believe that "twitch" as the holy grail of MMO combat is misguided.  All it tests is skill at being 15 and downing red bulls.  A properly done tab or limited twitch system rewards tactics and strategic thinking.

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Reply #1255 on: February 10, 2016, 02:45:23 AM

People tunnel in on the "action" combat system because they reason "Mmo's need to be more interactive! Gamers don't like mmo's because there boring click fest!"

MMO's are boring because of repetition and unfun rpg mechanics that don't make sense or make me do something I normally don't do or shouldn't have to do. Ramping up the action-y won't make the game mechanics bleed my eyes less.
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Reply #1256 on: February 10, 2016, 03:05:36 AM

I don't care about it being more action for the sake of it. The problem is that it is what they ADVERTISED they were going to do, many many times. So if they can't deliver it, then I doubt everything else. And that's also why they are NOT gonna go back to tab targeting. They are gonna stick with the actiony combat, which they might be unable to unfuck, and would stay with a bad and unsatisfying combat.

As we stated multiple times it is very early to tell, but my fears came from a certain feeling of cluelessness and not just the immaturity of the build. The problem is not what kind of combat they implement, but if they can make any kind of combat moderately satisfying and engaging per se.

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Reply #1257 on: February 10, 2016, 06:32:31 AM

People tunnel in on the "action" combat system because they reason "Mmo's need to be more interactive! Gamers don't like mmo's because there boring click fest!"

MMO's are boring because of repetition and unfun rpg mechanics that don't make sense or make me do something I normally don't do or shouldn't have to do. Ramping up the action-y won't make the game mechanics bleed my eyes less.

By contrast, lopping off heads in Mount and Blade to me is fun for over 200 hours of single player time, because the combat is fun to me.

And that's before you even get into the normal MMO stuff that adds to the equation.

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Reply #1258 on: February 10, 2016, 08:27:18 AM

I don't care about it being more action for the sake of it. The problem is that it is what they ADVERTISED they were going to do, many many times. So if they can't deliver it, then I doubt everything else. And that's also why they are NOT gonna go back to tab targeting. They are gonna stick with the actiony combat, which they might be unable to unfuck, and would stay with a bad and unsatisfying combat.

This is from the Shadowbane team, which stuck with the "BIG IRON" servers and click movement despite clear alpha/beta indications that neither was going to work well at all for what they wanted to do.

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Reply #1259 on: February 10, 2016, 09:05:54 AM

They should license the Darkfall engine, it actually was fantastic.
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