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Author Topic: Marvel's Luke Cage  (Read 6417 times)
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #105 on: October 17, 2016, 01:18:26 PM

I loved this series but yeah, if you are looking for a super hero action comic, this isn't it. Cage walks through 3/4ths of the show not having to worry about shit but his own inner conflicts and to me that's fine.  This is pretty much what a good drama about superman would be, ways to tell a story where the primary motivator is not "How do I beat up the villain?"

The series had me engrossed from beginning to end and even though the pimp stormtrooper looked a little silly I really liked the story.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
eldaec
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Reply #106 on: October 18, 2016, 12:32:09 AM

More I think about it, more I think this would have been flat out better without Diamond Back in it.

Second half would have been better focussed around Cage trying to get the folder without wrecking Harlem in the process. Mariah trying to use the folder to control Cage woild be credible and her trying to drown / poison Cage would make for a better show than guys punching each other with no effects budget. Also would be easier to give Misty's "stop fucking up my town" viewpoint more weight.

I have other minor niggles...

The MCU links were transparently written in after the script was complete and if they are going to do it that badly I'd rather they don't bother.

Given the amount of time in flashback, Willis's motivation is surprisingly sketchy.

Turk. I like the guy, another character with obvious Wire influences, but one minute he's selling guns on a street corner - next dealing in military grade hardware, in between he's an informer for Cottonmouth, and by the end he's buying stolen Nikes.

Claire. Not the same character as in Daredevil. I like both Claires, but she is going to be in every show they need to figure out who she is. Also she came dangerously close to sassy girl sidekick at times.


But it was fun, would recommend.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
kaid
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Reply #107 on: October 18, 2016, 12:57:51 PM

I think some of the issues with claire is she is literally trying to figure out a way to wrap her head around all the crazy stuff that seems to be surrounding her. She now has had close contact with three super powered individuals and had her career wrecked by NINJAS. She is trying to feel her way towards a new path for herself and some of it is does she want to be the sassy side kick or have some role supporting and helping these super individuals in other ways. She has seen these people go out and make a difference in their areas and she wants in on that.
Threash
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Reply #108 on: October 18, 2016, 12:59:26 PM

Undead ninjas.

I am the .00000001428%
Rasix
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Reply #109 on: October 18, 2016, 01:28:20 PM

More I think about it, more I think this would have been flat out better without Diamond Back in it.

Diamondback was fucking terrible. Doesn't help that I hate the actor (not personally, I just don't like watching him). Compared to every other villain they've trotted out, he was such a one note mustache twirler. Doesn't help that they gave him magic bullets, daddy issues, and a Deus Ex Power Suit, which was about the dumbest looking thing I've see in any of these series.

For as tight of a narrative as these series have, they all seem like they could have gracefully ended 3-4 episode earlier, if they just cut some stupid out of the plot line.

edit: And was it just me or was Theo Rossi pretty awful in this as well? Could be residual SoA stink, but he just seemed ill suited for this role, and his delivery grated on me.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 01:30:48 PM by Rasix »

-Rasix
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Reply #110 on: October 18, 2016, 11:08:37 PM

Finally finished this. Had to force myself to watch the last 3-4 episodes. Started off really well but by then end I no longer cared about anyone in it.

When your hero is, like Jessica Jones, just strong and tough, you have to step the plot up to make it interesting. JJ had a really good villain. Cottonmouth was OK but Diamondback and Mariah were incredibly tedious and one dimensional. I totally agree with you Rasix, I really don't like the actor playing Diamondback. I didn't like him in Boardwalk Empire and he was playing the exact same part in this. I didn't like the actor playing Shades nor the actress playing Mariah either, neither of them had any range at all. Mariah was particularly bad.

The only physical threat to Luke Cage was the Judas bullets and despite having what looked like a high tech rifle with high tech sights Diamondback managed to fuck up every single shot he took with it. Play more CS:GO and l2headshot noob. And that suit. Fuckin lol. Props budget ran out hard eh? And your final big fight scene boils down to flashbacks and punching and the tired (and poorly explained) cliche of 'I just stopped hitting him cos it was feeding his power'. Zzzzz.

The sense of place was OK, clearly much more impactful to those who know the area, which I don't, but it did have an authentic location feel to a lot of it. Comparisons to The Wire feel really off to me. I can see how it could have been influenced by it but the people in The Wire - especially the cops - were believable. The people in this were cardboard caricatured cliches. The music was occasionally good, extra points for the Method Man cameo, but again front-loaded to the first few episodes.

I think they should combine Jessica Jones, Daredevil (by far the best show of the three so far) and Luke Cage into one show and compress the three 13 episode season 2's into a single 10 episode season for all of them.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
taleril
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Reply #111 on: October 19, 2016, 07:55:15 AM

Liked it well enough, but agree with the general sentiment that it started strong and then limped across the finish line.

I was particularly disappointed that they made Claire into a love interest.  It detracted from the bad-ass nurse image she had established.
jgsugden
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Reply #112 on: October 19, 2016, 08:36:10 AM

It seems like the thing for them to do is to stop making 13 episode seasons and instead make 5 to 8 episode seasons and release them twice as often.   Film them all at once, but break the stories down to these lengths and put the feeling of a closed season on them.  I'd rather get a Marvel Netflix series 6 times a year with shorter story lines than 2 or 3 times a year and feel like the back half is dragging constantly.

They needed to set up Diamondback and his technology more.  They tried, but every piece of setup felt out of place.  They needed a character in the story that was from Hammer to ground it. 

Regardless, if I were ranking all episodes of the Marvel Netflix series individually, some of the worst would be from this series.  However, the start of the series also gave me some of my favorite episodes - and perhaps my favorite moment in that first punch.  It is tough to evaluate as a whole.

I miss Good Eats.  *Sniff*
eldaec
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Reply #113 on: October 19, 2016, 02:06:14 PM

Comparisons to the wire were about thi
Comparisons to The Wire feel really off to me. I can see how it could have been influenced by it but the people in The Wire - especially the cops - were believable. The people in this were cardboard caricatured cliches. The music was occasionally good, extra points for the Method Man cameo, but again front-loaded to the first few episodes.

I think they should combine Jessica Jones, Daredevil (by far the best show of the three so far) and Luke Cage into one show and compress the three 13 episode season 2's into a single 10 episode season for all of them.

Regarding the Wire I'm pretty sure everyone is just pointing out the shots and techniques they stole outright to make this show feel 'urban', don't think anyone is claiming this works on the same level. Most of it was superficial - but the ending in particular was effective. The best thing in this show was Misty Knight, the willingness to have her earn an unhappy ending and fuck up more than once in ways that didn't stop her seeming competent and which I found believable exceeded my expectations.

On combining DD JJ and LC, you know they already announced that right?

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
apocrypha
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Reply #114 on: October 19, 2016, 02:56:20 PM

On combining DD JJ and LC, you know they already announced that right?

I did not know that, what a good idea.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Tale
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Reply #115 on: October 19, 2016, 03:10:46 PM

Regarding the Wire I'm pretty sure everyone is just pointing out the shots and techniques they stole outright to make this show feel 'urban', don't think anyone is claiming this works on the same level.

Yeah what I was saying was they both have the same basic season 1 plot: proud African-American gangster runs his operation from the second level balcony of his nightclub, generating large amounts of paper cash - and deaths - that must somehow be managed, while his associate attempts to launder money for legitimate, legal interests. A guy working for the club flirts with a girl at the bar. Meanwhile on the streets of the neighbourhood, everyone's lives and deaths revolve around the gangster's empire and we get to know the characters of the streets, their language, and the places they hang out. The cops are a third force of characters: imperfect, but skilled in their own way, with their own problems... and slowly they uncover the extent of the gangster's empire and deal with its fallout.

Luke Cage just set that in the Marvel universe, and is not as good.


"The more we talk about less important things, the less we talk about more important things."
MahrinSkel
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Reply #116 on: October 19, 2016, 03:15:47 PM

I think part of the problem is that it is inevitably compared to DD and JJ, which is an extremely high bar (DD is arguably the best thing to come out of Netflix, period). I was entertained enough that I don't regret the $8 for reactivating my Netflix account, which is the target it really needed to aim at. Enough like it and I might keep the account going all the time.

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Khaldun
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Reply #117 on: October 19, 2016, 05:28:32 PM

They absolutely need shorter episode orders for these. They can't sustain these shows over a greater length, I think in part because of budget but also because they really don't know what kind of story to tell about these characters that is fully episodic that is not freak-of-the-week.
eldaec
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Reply #118 on: October 20, 2016, 10:52:46 AM

Luke Cage has sharp knees.

FWIW I'm ok with a comicbook show 'not being as good as the Wire'.

Before we lose all sense of perspective, the direct comparison should be Agents, Arrow, Supergirl or even The Walking Dead.

This was much better than any of them. I think the reason I came out of this with specific niggles is that it aimed high so gets judged to a higher standard.

It is no Lois and Clark - but few things are.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Trippy
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Reply #119 on: October 20, 2016, 10:56:31 AM

Before we lose all sense of perspective, the direct comparison should be Agents, Arrow, Supergirl or even The Walking Dead.
Why aren't we comparing it to Daredevil and Jessica Jones?
apocrypha
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Reply #120 on: October 20, 2016, 01:01:07 PM

Why aren't we comparing it to Daredevil and Jessica Jones?


I am, they were both better than LC.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Phildo
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Reply #121 on: October 20, 2016, 01:42:11 PM

I came away not really enjoying this series.  As others have said, I was interested from the start but never really felt that Cage was threatened and the villains kept getting in each other's way.  There was also way too much convenience in how Cage just happened to be half-brothers with the shadowy guy supplying high-tech weapons to the gangsters in his new adopted home.  What're the odds that he and Diamondback would both wind up on the same turf, really?  It's not like Diamondback (or Shades for that matter) even knew he was still around at this point.

Agreed that the Method Man cameo was fantastic, though.  "It's you!"
eldaec
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Reply #122 on: October 21, 2016, 02:42:12 AM

Despite the niggles I thought it was about as good as Daredevil but Jessica is still the best live action thing Marvel have done. Including the movies.

I think Daredevil is still getting a pass on its minor problems because it came first and after tolerating Agents we were all shocked that DD was almost as good as Lois and Clark.

Live action TV superheroes...

L&C > JJ > LC/DD >>> MacGuyver > Everything Else > Agents


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"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Merusk
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Reply #123 on: October 21, 2016, 08:29:21 AM

I couldn't stand Lois and Clark and remain baffled at the love it gets.


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Venkman
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Reply #124 on: October 21, 2016, 04:16:53 PM

Finished it last night. I enjoyed it, particularly because it was a different pace and tone from everything else so far. Much more slow, plodding, all that music, just very different.

I agree on the variability of his relative strength, and some of derp to handwave things obvious to the audience (like, he's looking right at the power unit on Stryker's suit and can't be arsed to, ya know, tear it off? And then use some dumb story about making him angry instead of what obviously happened [he got tired]?).

But overall, much looking forward to Fist and then Defenders.
Draegan
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Reply #125 on: October 24, 2016, 06:49:51 PM

I stopped around ep9. It started strong. It I have no desire to finish it.
Bunk
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Reply #126 on: October 29, 2016, 01:04:24 AM


I agree on the variability of his relative strength, and some of derp to handwave things obvious to the audience (like, he's looking right at the power unit on Stryker's suit and can't be arsed to, ya know, tear it off? And then use some dumb story about making him angry instead of what obviously happened [he got tired]?).


I think the inference was that the suit was absorbing kinetic energy everytime Luke punched him. So he stopped fighting back so the suit would run out of juice. Also on the comment on how silly it looked earlier: it did look silly, but was clearly an attempt to pay homage to the character from the comic - it was reminiscent of the comic Diamondback's costume. (Apparently an Earth 616 character? Not the Captain America version of Diamondback, who was a girl with pink hair who threw diamonds at people...)


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apocrypha
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Reply #127 on: October 29, 2016, 03:49:59 AM

a girl with pink hair who threw diamonds at people...

I think that would've been more entertaining.  DRILLING AND WOMANLINESS

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Severian
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Reply #128 on: February 27, 2017, 02:06:38 PM

Cottonmouth was the best part of ep1.

I watched about half of the series before my interest petered out, but it didn't take long before I was convinced that he was the best thing about the show. He just oozed charisma, and he wasn't a cardboard villain. Two weeks ago I was listening to an interview of some guy on NPR on my commute, I had come in after it had started and didn't know who it was, but he was fascinating. Turned out to be him.

I haven't yet seen the film Moonlight, but it's no surprise to me whatsoever that Mahershala Ali just won an Oscar.
Tale
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Reply #129 on: March 07, 2017, 01:13:05 AM

In our household, we know Mahershala Ali as "Remy Danton" from House of Cards. He stood out in that, too. We recognised him in Luke Cage, kept watching, and then what happened was a real WTF and we never finished the series.

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rattran
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Reply #130 on: March 07, 2017, 07:08:48 AM

He was amazing in the 4400, back when his name was even longer.
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