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Author Topic: Marvel's Luke Cage  (Read 19351 times)
jgsugden
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Reply #140 on: October 20, 2018, 05:54:05 AM

Canceled as well.  As Rosenberg is leaving Jessica Jones after Season 3, I am smelling that shows end as well - which just points me towards a Heroes for Hire type show.

I wonder if Disney jacked up the fees for access to their IP?

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Cyrrex
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Reply #141 on: October 22, 2018, 01:10:57 AM

Hopefully stuff will come to fill the void, but I don't like this trend.  I prefer the world where I am inundated with frequent, decently produced superhero TV shows to the one where Disney puts a stranglehold on everything, produces it themselves and/or makes me buy their streaming service (which I will not).

I know there are some less that postive opinions around here about Luke Cage and Iron Fist, but I would still prefer to watch these kinds of shows over 90% of everything else out there.

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satael
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Reply #142 on: October 22, 2018, 01:20:12 AM

It might well be that Netflix isn't willing to pay whatever Disney is asking since Disney is launching its own service and Netflix has Millarworld in case they want to develop their own characters.
Threash
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Reply #143 on: October 22, 2018, 02:18:36 PM

Netflix cares about 3 things: how many new subscriptions a show brings, how cheap it is to produce, how many awards it wins. Iron Fist and Luke Cage both failed at all of that.

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Draegan
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Reply #144 on: October 23, 2018, 07:55:09 AM

Luke Cage was kind of bad, I never finished the first season.
Rendakor
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Reply #145 on: October 23, 2018, 08:01:42 AM

I liked the first half of season 1, when it was The Wire in the MCU. Diamondback was a pretty shitty villain though, and the finale left me with no desire to watch Season 2.

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jgsugden
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Reply #146 on: October 23, 2018, 06:37:23 PM

Netflix cares about 3 things: how many new subscriptions a show brings, how cheap it is to produce, how many awards it wins. Iron Fist and Luke Cage both failed at all of that.
One of their key metrics is how long it takes for a season to be binged as well.  So if you love a show, binge hard.

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MediumHigh
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Reply #147 on: October 23, 2018, 07:34:02 PM

The elephant in the room is Disney Streaming. Disney deal with Netflix must not be going all too well.

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Draegan
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Reply #148 on: October 24, 2018, 08:10:30 AM

It has nothing to do with how well it's going. It's all about having a content map moving forward for their new offering. They are going to want all Disney/Marvel properties on their platform.

Plus LC and IF sucked anyway.
jgsugden
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Reply #149 on: October 24, 2018, 09:03:17 PM

They've said that there will be Marvel products on several channels and services for the foreseeable future.  They're putting elite material on the streaming service - movie characters - to draw people in there, but they'll have Hulu, ABC, Netflix, etc... Marvel shows.

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Reply #150 on: October 26, 2018, 09:42:03 AM

I'm an f13 outlier in that I like the Netflix stuff (other than Jessica Jones, though S2 was better because no Tennant/mind control BS). The cable stuff can go, Agents and Gifted are bad. Gifted is really, really bad horrific teen angst drama. Though again, I'm an outlier in that I loved Peggy's show (and it's one of the only Marvel things the fiancee also enjoyed greatly, I still hear her mention it now and again).

Threash
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Reply #151 on: October 26, 2018, 03:09:27 PM

Pretty sure none of that is an outlier. I agree with you on almost everything, except i loved Tennant and thought JJ season 1 was much better than 2.

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Reply #152 on: October 26, 2018, 03:49:27 PM

I liked Agents and loved Tennant in JJ S1, and haven't watched Gifted. I like all the Netflix stuff that I've seen except Iron Fist S1 because it is utter shit outside of Colleen Wing.

Velorath
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Reply #153 on: October 27, 2018, 10:29:27 AM

They've said that there will be Marvel products on several channels and services for the foreseeable future.  They're putting elite material on the streaming service - movie characters - to draw people in there, but they'll have Hulu, ABC, Netflix, etc... Marvel shows.

ABC and Freeform are owned by Disney and Disney also has a 30% stake in Hulu. When MAoS wraps up, ABC won't have any Marvel content going unless they announce something between now and next summer. Freeform passed on New Warriors and it doesn't look like anybody else is picking it up either so far. Netflix is cutting back their Marvel shows. Of the 11 non-X-men Marvel TV shows that have launched, 3 of them ended after two seasons, 1 didn't make it past the first, and 1 (Defenders) hasn't had any follow-up announced past the first season. That's not an impressive track record. It's also become clear that none of these shows will ever have any sort of interaction with the movies, so the MCU link is no longer a reason for any network or service to pick up a Marvel series especially knowing they're going to have to compete with Marvel's service soon.

There may be Marvel products on a number of channels and services for the foreseeable future, but does that mean new products? I'm kinda doubting it.
jgsugden
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Reply #154 on: October 29, 2018, 06:36:26 PM

ABC and Freeform are owned by Disney and Disney also has a 30% stake in Hulu. When MAoS wraps up, ABC won't have any Marvel content going unless they announce something between now and next summer.
http://collider.com/female-superhero-series-abc/
Quote
Freeform passed on New Warriors and it doesn't look like anybody else is picking it up either so far. Netflix is cutting back their Marvel shows.
https://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/06/10/new-warriors-tv-series-update-jeph-loeb/
Quote
Of the 11 non-X-men Marvel TV shows that have launched, 3 of them ended after two seasons, 1 didn't make it past the first, and 1 (Defenders) hasn't had any follow-up announced past the first season.
Pretty good record, but you're failing to note Defenders was not intended to be repeated.
Quote
That's not an impressive track record. It's also become clear that none of these shows will ever have any sort of interaction with the movies, so the MCU link is no longer a reason for any network or service to pick up a Marvel series especially knowing they're going to have to compete with Marvel's service soon.
And yet, if you Google, you'll find a lot of snippets about Marvel shows in development.
Quote
There may be Marvel products on a number of channels and services for the foreseeable future, but does that mean new products? I'm kinda doubting it.
Google articles about Marvel shows in development.  2 minutes will indicate you're wrong. If you want to claim they're BS articles, feel free.

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Father mike
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Reply #155 on: October 29, 2018, 07:30:14 PM

Been a while since I've seen a good SirBruce-ing

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rattran
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Reply #156 on: October 29, 2018, 07:30:52 PM

Jesus fuck don't SirBruce shit.

Fuck.
Velorath
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Reply #157 on: October 29, 2018, 08:28:21 PM

Two links in there and one of them is a nearly 5 month article with one quote about the status of New Warriors finding a home: "We're working on it.". The other is that they're developing a show with female heroes. If that's the stuff you chose to link to I can only imagine the substance of these snippets you speak of.
jgsugden
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Reply #158 on: October 30, 2018, 01:57:09 AM

Sorry, I forget that people value their opinions over facts here.  Carry on.

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Velorath
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Reply #159 on: October 30, 2018, 03:10:08 AM

Silly me, I was just basing my opinions on the rapid cancellation of two Netflix shows, the film side of Marvel being handed the reins for Disney's streaming service content, the inability of Marvel TV to find any takers for a series they developed (including channels they own), a high profile failure in The Inhumans, the upcoming end of MAOS, and a pile of evidence that suggests that Kevin Feige really doesn't seem to want to share his toys with Marvel TV.

But hey, there's every reason to believe that unlike Damage Control, Most Wanted, and New Warriors, "Untitled female-focused series" will launch on ABC before we know it.

eldaec
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Reply #160 on: October 30, 2018, 04:44:53 AM

Untitled show with women in it sounds like a discussion over lunch not a real show. Which is OK, all shows start that way.


It seems like the new shows are struggling for a real concept.

Netflix and the good seasons of agents have a concept, but it is darker and less prime time oriented.

Early agents and Agent Carter were just MCU-BUT-ON-TV which was fine for selling a show 5 years ago - but less so now that Disney have shown no interest in cross platform promotion. Also the on screen results have been mediocre.

Fwiw if I were abc I'd be looking to double down on something lighter and suitable for prime time. Think Supergirl or Lois and Clark. Marvel has plenty of 'daylight' characters that could be used. Crossover be damned. What matters is marvel recognition for marketing - especially on a lighter show.

Spider-man restyled as 'Gwen and Peter'. Something like that.

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Khaldun
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Reply #161 on: October 30, 2018, 06:18:03 AM

I think they could have done MCU-but-on-TV more fully and consistently; they didn't because Feige rightfully values his own quality control and doesn't have a consigliere he could trust to do the TV stuff, plus Perlmutter has been trying to use the TV material as a power play, since he doesn't seem happy just counting his money and letting the people who know what they're doing do it.
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Reply #162 on: October 30, 2018, 10:24:39 AM

The TV side is not helped at all by Jeph Loeb being creatively in charge, because his work has been "spotty" at best for the past decade. His TV work has also been really weak (some of the worst seasons of "Heroes" for example and second season of "Lost").

Khaldun
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Reply #163 on: October 30, 2018, 11:17:25 AM

Loeb is a really strange case. Some great work and some astoundingly bad work--enough to make me wonder if the great work was really done by someone else or something.
eldaec
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Reply #164 on: October 30, 2018, 03:10:30 PM

I think they could have done MCU-but-on-TV more fully and consistently; they didn't because Feige rightfully values his own quality control and doesn't have a consigliere he could trust to do the TV stuff, plus Perlmutter has been trying to use the TV material as a power play, since he doesn't seem happy just counting his money and letting the people who know what they're doing do it.

This is almost entirely true.

But I'd add that I'm not sure Feige himself could do the MCU-but-on-TV, they'd need to find someone who can do what he does and can make a TV show.

The films are great fun but they have limits. They struggle with characterisation other than the protagonists, the plot structures are as formulaic as the A team, and they are overdependent on explosions in the third act. A longer form like TV show up these weaknesses unless you make it a super light show and then it won't really feel like part of the MCU.

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Velorath
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Reply #165 on: November 01, 2018, 11:31:31 PM

Decent Forbes article saying a lot of things I've been thinking lately in regards to Marvel TV. Basically they just need to acknowledge at this point that they're making Marvel shows but not MCU shows. Not everything has to be connected. I still haven't watched Runaways, but having read the comics it's a story that maybe works better as its own thing.
Khaldun
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Reply #166 on: November 02, 2018, 11:28:05 AM

Yeah, sort of for Runaways, even in the comics? But I think this is where Feige and the movie team must be thinking somewhere in the back of their heads that the TV content could function as a kind of AAA feeder for the cinematic universe--that if a character or group takes off like crazy in their TV format, that you can then import them into the movies at some point. But if something sinks like a stone--or isn't well-executed--you can wash your hands of it or even just flatly reboot it when it comes into the movies. Like, if they suddenly *did* want Iron Fist in the films, they could recast and reboot the character without any worries.

To some extent, that was the value of Runaways being firmly set in the MU when it was a comic-book--it was set way off to the side, in a situation shared by no other characters, but when and if some of the characters had appeal beyond Runaways, you could move them into other teams, other settings, and so on. There's no value to so firmly firewalling off content that you can't repurpose it elsewhere. At this point, that's what the comics are really for--an IP farm that will once in a while generate a new good character or setting, and in the meantime will promote the other content that is making the really big bucks.
Velorath
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Reply #167 on: November 03, 2018, 12:51:35 AM

I think at this point Feige trusts himself to know that he just needs the right creative people and the right concept. If there's a talented director who matches up with a great pitch for Runaways, that's a lot more important to him than whether or not Runaways is a hit for Hulu.

I kinda feel like if they were ever going to import a Marvel TV character into the movies it would have been Daredevil after the first season came out, even if just for small appearances. They might have needed to negotiate some stuff with Netflix, but if Marvel and Sony could work out a deal for Spider-man I'm sure they could have figured something out with Netflix. I think they'll have the courtesy to wait until Netflix winds the series down before they do something else with the character, but at this point I almost fully expect him to be the first Marvel TV character where the film side says "forget all that stuff the TV guys did, here's the real MCU version of the character". Assuming there's not a full MCU reboot in the works at some point.
Velorath
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Reply #168 on: February 05, 2019, 06:31:34 PM

But hey, there's every reason to believe that unlike Damage Control, Most Wanted, and New Warriors, "Untitled female-focused series" will launch on ABC before we know it.


Well I'm positively shocked that didn't work out.
jgsugden
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Reply #169 on: February 05, 2019, 08:50:13 PM

But hey, there's every reason to believe that unlike Damage Control, Most Wanted, and New Warriors, "Untitled female-focused series" will launch on ABC before we know it.


Well I'm positively shocked that didn't work out.
Note that they're working on other Marvel series.  I also think the MAoS renewal for 2 sesons might be a reflection of them realizing they could do better than what they were seeing from the Female series, and wanting to keep Marvel on the air to capitalize on the Avengers boost this summer will bring.

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Velorath
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Reply #170 on: February 06, 2019, 02:45:26 AM

To the best of my knowledge, MAOS hasn't received a boost from the release of any MCU movie. It's also going to have a hard time getting a boost from Endgame since season 6 premiers in July, over two months after Endgame opens.
jgsugden
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Reply #171 on: February 06, 2019, 06:36:04 PM

There were no boosts (AFAIK) on an episode by episode basis.  The episode after Civil War did not spike in viewers, IIRC, for example.  However, when everyone is talking Marvel, Marvel shows are going to have free advertising.  If the MCU movies had stopped in 2015, MAoS would not still be on the air.  People will be talking about Marvel movies more this summer thann at any time in the past with Captain Marvel, Endgame and Spidey....

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eldaec
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Reply #172 on: February 07, 2019, 07:44:56 AM

Expecting maos to get a boost from an mcu film makes no more sense than expecting xmen comics to get a boost. Different characters, different media, no particular connection.

I suspect the effect on marvel as a whole is not massively stronger than the effect on superheroes as a whole. Gotham or Green Arrow probably benefit almost as much.

Nerds like us know the difference - I doubt many others do.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #173 on: February 07, 2019, 08:17:03 AM

Even when you DO know the difference, it probably goes like this:  Huh, that movie was good and know I want to see more superhero stuff.  Let me go look and figure out which ones people are saying are the best ones.

That's kinda what I do.  I know which ones belong to which, but I could give absolutely no shits.  I will watch whichever ones I think are good, I don't care which universe they belong to.  Daredevil belonging to the Marvel timeline, for example, is more a net negative to me, because it occasionally makes me pop out and think "hey, this is pretty serious.  They could just bring in the Hulk to absolutely skullfuck all these zombie ninjas".  Knowing they are all in the same city at the same time doesn't necessarily help things.

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HaemishM
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Reply #174 on: February 07, 2019, 10:17:26 AM

/Comic Book Guy

DAREDEVIL would never unleash the Hulk in New York City to fight some ninjas. The Hulk is a last resort, scorched earth type of option. He's as likely to need putting down as the ninjas once the ninjas are done.

/Comic Book Guy

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