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Author Topic: Marvel's Luke Cage  (Read 25649 times)
Cyrrex
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Reply #175 on: February 07, 2019, 01:02:01 PM

Hah, but you know what I mean.  Replace Hulk with Ironman or whatever.

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Velorath
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Reply #176 on: February 07, 2019, 01:22:21 PM

Also I believe Hulk was off-world for pretty much the entirety of the Netflix shows' runs.

Edit: For that matter, past the first season of Luke Cage maybe, Iron Man, Dr. Strange, and Spider-man are possibly the only active Superheroes in New York. Strange wasn't exactly common knowledge and Spider-man is still mostly inexperienced. Tony probably had his own stuff going on.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 01:30:27 PM by Velorath »
jgsugden
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Reply #177 on: February 09, 2019, 10:04:54 AM

That is sort of like saying, "Huh.  We're doing a community theater production of The Village.  Why don't we just get Emma Stone and Ewan McGregor to star in it?"

They don't all know each other.  The ones that do have been tied together pretty reasonably, with arrogant jerks that go solo going solo and team players having guests.

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Velorath
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Reply #178 on: February 11, 2019, 02:11:11 PM

And in another shocking bit of news Marvel TV finally gets some new projects off the ground but they're animated and have no connection to the MCU.

This pretty much seems to be the way forward for Marvel TV (and the only reason I'm posting it in thread is because it's related to that ongoing conversation and also there's probably only one person here who would give enough of a fuck about this news to make a thread for it). I'd be surprised if they ever get to touch anything MCU-related again, and hey a couple on these projects sound ok. Patton Oswalt and Jordan Blum doing a M.O.D.O.K. series could be fun. Kevin Smith doing Howard the Duck is... potentially not terrible I guess. Chelsea Handler is involved in Tigra & Dazzler, so no thanks. And then there's Hit-Monkey from the guys who directed the painfully unfunny Office Christmas Party. There will also be a special called The Offenders which brings all these characters together. These are all appearing on Hulu.
Mandella
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Reply #179 on: February 12, 2019, 10:50:24 AM

Patton Oswalt has been wanting to do M.O.D.O.K. forever. It's his Deadpool.

If they don't kiddifiy this too much it could be pretty fun. A humorous take on characters too B-list to even make the Defenders...
Khaldun
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Reply #180 on: February 12, 2019, 03:25:36 PM

I'm down for the MODOK one, at any rate.

Dazzler and Tigra is a weird combo. I wonder what the take will be.

Hit-Monkey would be meh no matter who was doing it.

Kevin Smith on anything sucks and has sucked for a long time. But with Howard the Duck, I kind of think there's nowhere to go but up. Never been a particularly funny character, and the movie deserves every bit of derision that's ever come its way.
jgsugden
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Reply #181 on: February 12, 2019, 08:44:37 PM

Read the description of Tigra/Dazzler to get an idea of where it is headed.

This is all aimed at Adult Swim audiences, I think. 

Regardless, the other bit of news is that Hulu is going to evaluate the Netflix shows when it gets closer to the 2 year expiration and may pick up some, or all, of them.  However, that will only work if the leads remain unemployed or are doing something that allows for them to split time.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #182 on: February 13, 2019, 12:10:30 AM

Two years from when?  From the cancellation of each series, or a collective date where it all expires?

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
jgsugden
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Reply #183 on: February 13, 2019, 09:03:25 AM

2 years of release of the series to which they are tied.  That applies to the first 4, but not Punisher, which may be why we have not seen a Punisher cancellation announcement, yet.  They may drag it out .

I do not know how this impacts characters like Karen Page that span multiple series in significant roles. 

I'm betting someone brings these characters back, but we'll get a Heroes for Hire series that bounces around these characters a bit as ome of the major actors will have other roles by then.  The timing would also be intersting to have all of these characters return for a mini series that is designed to lead up to the next Spider-man movie...  I could see them specificall design a cordinated effort once - along the lines of the MAoS/Civil War connection - to tie New York together.

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HaemishM
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Reply #184 on: February 13, 2019, 09:32:17 AM

Nothing the TV people do will be effected by or have any effect on the MCU movies. The head of the TV division is an utter dickwad that hates Kevin Feige. They are not going to work together for anything.

Khaldun
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Reply #185 on: February 13, 2019, 01:42:28 PM

Yeah, and the only reason that persists is because Marvel's corporate ownership is still financially complicated due to its really bad, weird financial history from the late 1980s onward. Otherwise, I'm sure the suits even higher up the food chain would love to have a guy that Feige can work with being the head TV honcho.

It's really why there was so much hate in the press for The Inhumans--that whole show was a poison pill that Feige fed to the current TV guy, knowing it was shitastic--I am 100% sure Feige and his guys were egging on the critics privately to make the fiasco as bad it could be.

The streaming service will probably clear this up some and there will be vertical integration of the MCU and the streaming series. At that point, you could begin to imagine something like "Marvel Team-Up" happening that begins to deal with what life is like in a world where these people live and operate in the same universe. Though I'm sure the contract costs for someone like Cumberbatch or Holland are going to make a 4-episode team-up between Spider-Man and Luke Cage happen pretty much never.

They also have to think reaaaaaaaally carefully about where the saturation level is. An Avengers movie will stop being a big event if you can bloat yourself with a constant stream of more ordinary MCU adventures. Moreover, the more of that content you have, the more likely it gets that one of your creative people takes a character or a property that's been popular and working well and does something really dumb or bad that actually reduces the value of that property in future work. In the comics, they have become accustomed to just saying, "We will never speak of this again", of dropping a premise that everyone realized was absolutely awful. In the movies, it's going to be a lot harder to scrub off the memory of a really bad 4-part streaming series involving a character that everybody liked up to that point.
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Reply #186 on: February 13, 2019, 01:49:25 PM

I still think the Inhumans as a concept could have worked, especially if they'd gotten Vin Diesel to do Black Bolt.

Of course, a property that odd given to the simpletons that worked on the ABC TV side of things but weren't even allowed to work as the B team on Agents of SHIELD didn't have a chance in hell of doing something good with it.

jgsugden
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Reply #187 on: February 18, 2019, 12:39:23 PM

You're assuming the head of TV keeps his job.  Inhumans, losing Netflix shows right around the apex of the movies, the harsh relationship with films....  A change may come in the next 6 months.

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Mandella
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Reply #188 on: February 18, 2019, 02:35:24 PM

I still think the Inhumans as a concept could have worked, especially if they'd gotten Vin Diesel to do Black Bolt.

Of course, a property that odd given to the simpletons that worked on the ABC TV side of things but weren't even allowed to work as the B team on Agents of SHIELD didn't have a chance in hell of doing something good with it.

Well I agree there. As a concept they are no dumber than any other comic book group. It was the execution that was terribad -- although I have to admit that I kinda liked Carnak...
eldaec
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Reply #189 on: February 19, 2019, 02:55:17 AM

I actually think Marvel might be running out of characters that aren't complete ass.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 02:56:49 AM by eldaec »

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Khaldun
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Reply #190 on: February 19, 2019, 06:12:30 AM

Kind of, actually. At least ones who can have a show built around them. I think we already came to that conclusion about the "street-level" types but it's true overall, too.
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Reply #191 on: February 19, 2019, 07:11:34 AM

Hmm, yeah mostly.  I think they've hit all the big names at every power level at this point.  Mind you, a creative director can always pull a Guardians/Ant-man and figure out how to do fun things with characters you never thought would be adapted.  But except for random specific characters in the x-men and F4 IP's they haven't had access to at this point, not a lot of low hanging fruit left.  Even if I don't like him, at the street level I suppose Moon Knight is still an option, as he does have a following. 

I'd be happy if the big screen got a better version of Iron Fist (or just merged him with Shang-chi or made a new character or whatever) that is super magic powered kung fu master.  If they got an actual fight choreographer, that could be a lot of fun.

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Threash
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Reply #192 on: February 19, 2019, 09:36:51 AM

A character being complete ass has absolutely no bearing on whether they can make a good show or movie out of it. GOTG was them saying "fuck you, we can make anything work". The only A lister Marvel has had access to is Spiderman, and they did just fine without him before Civil War.

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HaemishM
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Reply #193 on: February 19, 2019, 09:49:06 AM

A gritty Moon Knight take that uses Warren Ellis's Mr. Knight in a suit personality for inspiration could be trippy as fuck and awesome. Trying to make it fit within a universe concept may be a bit difficult though.

Sir T
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Reply #194 on: February 19, 2019, 11:44:22 AM

My only qualifier with Moon Knight is that US Tv has never really been able to do Mental Illness well, particularly Multiple Personalities. Its either "mental Illness is sexy" or "all mental illness is homicedal rage with gibbering." Plus they could go all Batman on him. Or, even worse, Deadpool.

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Jeff Kelly
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Reply #195 on: February 19, 2019, 11:47:47 AM

There's always Squirrel Girl  why so serious?

They could - theoretically - spiderverse their output and just do different takes on the same characters and do Ultimate and Golden Age versions of their lineup. I don't think that the viewers would be as open to that as the comic book readers
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Reply #196 on: February 19, 2019, 11:56:18 AM

A character being complete ass has absolutely no bearing on whether they can make a good show or movie out of it. GOTG was them saying "fuck you, we can make anything work". The only A lister Marvel has had access to is Spiderman, and they did just fine without him before Civil War.
I'm actually in full total agreement with you.  Any great writer should be able to take what ever insane concept hero and do something fun with it.

But all the low hanging fruit is gone at this point.  A fuck up is going to really look like a really massive fuck up.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
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Mandella
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Reply #197 on: February 19, 2019, 11:57:51 AM

A character being complete ass has absolutely no bearing on whether they can make a good show or movie out of it. GOTG was them saying "fuck you, we can make anything work". The only A lister Marvel has had access to is Spiderman, and they did just fine without him before Civil War.

Yeah. How soon everyone forgets that Marvel Studios whole flippin lineup when they started were B-listers. Iron Man, Hulk, Thor -- these were not heavy hitters at the time.

Good writing/directing/acting can turn any character into gold, just as bad writing/directing/acting can turn a A-lister into dross.

Going off topic for Cage, but I really think loosing (firing) Gunn is going to seriously hurt the Marvel universe. I liked Infinity War overall, but I did feel like the Guardians weren't portrayed that well. Quill was an absolute smuck instead of just being hotheaded, that sort of thing.
Khaldun
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Reply #198 on: February 19, 2019, 04:11:09 PM

So, like, there are characters and premises that a gifted writer can look at and say, "Wow, that could be really good." Like, "human beings are genocided by their own robotic creations, flee in one ship and a rag-tag fleet to try and find a legendary lost planet". That did not have to be a kid with his robotic dagget and weird Mormon camp, etc., it just took someone to notice.

And then there's characters and premises that just really cannot be fixed, where the best you can do is lean into how lame they are and have fun with it in a kind of postmodern way. Marvel has some of those; it may be running out of characters that a smart writer can find hidden richness within.
Velorath
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Reply #199 on: February 19, 2019, 04:27:33 PM

For TV (and Hulu in particular) there's stuff they can lean into that maybe doesn't fit in with the tone of the MCU or would be too mature for Disney+. Like I'd rather see a Tomb of Dracula series than see them just try to reboot Blade as an MCU character. Similarly, a mature Hellstorm series could be pretty cool also. Beyond that, who knows. Legion wouldn't have been a no-brainer for building a series around, but that turned out pretty well.
Threash
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Reply #200 on: February 19, 2019, 04:37:10 PM

My only qualifier with Moon Knight is that US Tv has never really been able to do Mental Illness well, particularly Multiple Personalities. Its either "mental Illness is sexy" or "all mental illness is homicedal rage with gibbering." Plus they could go all Batman on him. Or, even worse, Deadpool.

Jessica Jones did a wonderful job of portraying PTSD at the very least.

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jgsugden
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Reply #201 on: February 20, 2019, 09:01:23 AM

The X-films were fine to bad, and the Fantastic Four films were ... yeesh.  I woul think that they also count as A list character sets that they can do something with in the next decade.  I'm bettering Spider-man, X-men and Fantastic Four are the core of this next decade of films while the Avengers fade a bit.

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Sir T
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Reply #202 on: February 20, 2019, 11:42:26 AM

Yeah. How soon everyone forgets that Marvel Studios whole flippin lineup when they started were B-listers. Iron Man, Hulk, Thor -- these were not heavy hitters at the time.

Thor and Iron Man, yes. Hulk though, he had a TV series and 2 movies before the MCU version, so he was at least well known. And one of the Movies was very close to the "official" start of the MCU. Hulk has been a character that never really seems to shine much on his own, he needs other people around to carry things when he is not smashing things up or having Puny Banner Angst.

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
eldaec
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Reply #203 on: February 22, 2019, 05:04:08 AM

The X-films were fine to bad, and the Fantastic Four films were ... yeesh.  I woul think that they also count as A list character sets that they can do something with in the next decade.  I'm bettering Spider-man, X-men and Fantastic Four are the core of this next decade of films while the Avengers fade a bit.

I can imagine them pushing black panther and captain marvel just as hard. 

If I were running MCU I'd also want to experiment with one of the older names being taken over by a new character. Captain America being the most obvious possibility. Iron Man needs a break, and replacing Thor is a bit weird.

And there is still no sane reason not to make Black Widow movies. Hot lady James Bond writes itself.




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HaemishM
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Reply #204 on: February 22, 2019, 09:59:21 AM

They are making a Black Widow movie. Thor has disappeared from the MU in the past. Iron Man has been succeeded multiple times, a few times by Rhodey and lately by Riri as Ironheart (the approach I'd love to see them go with). Both Bucky and the Falcon have taken up Captain America's name and costume.

Marvel will figure out an approach to this that will likely work. Their track record leads me to believe whatever they choose, they'll manage to pull off successfully.

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