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Author Topic: Marvel's Jessica Jones  (Read 12676 times)
eldaec
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Reply #105 on: September 06, 2016, 05:03:32 PM

Wow. I thought the mind control problem was 100% the most interesting thing in the show (and in her comic). It's really rare that superhero comics treat mind control seriously as a premise--about how awful it would be, and about the bad things that could follow from it. It's perfect for the more "realistic" MCU, though, and it was handled really well. The only thing that I found disappointing in the series was the pacing, which was pretty awful. This was about 3 episodes too long, and individual episodes were occasionally just really mind-numbingly dull in parts. Compression of the stuff involving her neighbors, of the back-and-forth of dealing with Killgrave, of the Patsy plot arc, all would be good. Nuke/Agent Simpson shouldn't have been in it at all, he was a serious distraction.


I had no issue with the length of those arcs, but they lacked real impact because they were always so very clearly sub plots, they needed a stronger non-Kilgrave drive. Failing to really explore the control exerted by Patsy's mother, or by the crazy doctor supplying Nuke, seemed odd given the obvious parallel with Kilgrave.

The way DD2 handled the punisher and electra was a better balance.

The only sub plot I would have shortened was the flashback origin stuff. The cast had already sold me on who they were and how they felt today, I didn't learn anything new from the formulaic origin.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 05:09:45 PM by eldaec »

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Tale
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Reply #106 on: September 06, 2016, 06:34:21 PM

I had no issue with this series at all. It was a good drama that had superpowers in it. I watched it before I had even heard of Daredevil, so I guess I wasn't comparing it to anything, and then I enjoyed the shit out of both series of Daredevil. I've been recommending people do it that way. I don't like any other Marvel implementation, just these Netflix shows, and I've never read the comics, or spoken with anyone who has.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 06:35:59 PM by Tale »
Khaldun
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Reply #107 on: September 06, 2016, 08:13:21 PM

Arrow and Flash should be 12-14 episodes. That should be the order for a lot of superhero stuff--between 8-14 episodes. Syndication is not an issue any more--the economies it produced can be safely left behind. Stranger Things is a great model--that had ZERO padding in it.
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Reply #108 on: September 06, 2016, 09:13:19 PM

I enjoyed DD, though it was a bit unrelenting grimdark for my taste.

Anyway, I agree about the story arcs. It's good to have the time to dig deeper into characters, but they should stick to the old style like x-files or something. Sprinkle monster of the day episodes between main story arc eps. Great way to showcase a ton of bit villains and heroes, too.

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Reply #109 on: September 07, 2016, 02:58:16 PM

Nah, I'm so happy they aren't doing episodic shit.  It's what prevented a lot of TV shows from being really good.  Hope the trend continues of tight, large story arcs.

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eldaec
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Reply #110 on: March 11, 2018, 05:58:44 AM

This is back.

First impressions...

I'm nervous about the possibly they have made the series about Jessica's origin. Because I give no fucks about Jessica's origin.

Also feels less formulaic than daredevil, cage, or season 1.

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jgsugden
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Reply #111 on: March 11, 2018, 03:38:12 PM

It was a meh season.  Like all Netflix series, it could have been told in 4 to 6 episodes and been a lot tighter.

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MahrinSkel
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Reply #112 on: March 11, 2018, 04:01:46 PM

Yeah, it felt like a mini-series with extra episodes tacked on in the middle, and the third act dragged out way too far. Still good TV in most ways, but if I had been watching it once a week, they would have lost me somewhere around Episode 5, and I'd catch up later.

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Khaldun
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Reply #113 on: March 12, 2018, 07:15:55 PM

I don't understand why they're not getting smarter about avoiding the tremendous padding/dragginess of these runs. Everything should be getting leaner, smarter, more focused, but it's arguably getting worse over time.
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Reply #114 on: March 12, 2018, 07:42:33 PM

This is either as good or better than season 1. And season 1 definitely dragged its bellow to the finish line in the middle a lot more than season 2. I mean we are forgetting that one time Jessica and Kilgrave did a superhero team up?  awesome, for real

I have literally no complaints about the show even subverts some expectations and not even to be subversive but to explain how the characters while competent, capable, and strong, are still heavily flawed and can be down right wrong about a number of things.
 
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 07:46:14 PM by MediumHigh »

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jgsugden
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Reply #115 on: March 13, 2018, 03:14:30 PM

I really wish they'd go to a 5 to 7 episode season model and give us twice as many seasons.  They'd be well served by giving us a new season every 9 months (rather than 18) and tightening up everything.

I had trouble focusing on this season - and the characters seemed very inconsistent.  They did not take a journey so much as they wandered aimlessly from plot point to plot point.  And the ending... it felt like they realized they were most of the way through an episode and decided, "I'm bored.  Let's just end it here.  Let's see if I can wrap it up in 2 pages..."

My expectations for Marvel shows on Netflix are definitely on the decline. 

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Wasted
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Reply #116 on: March 14, 2018, 02:03:03 AM

I liked this a lot more than most of the Netflix stuff recently.  I enjoy the slower story telling when it's done well like it is here, not all comic book stuff needs to be dumb action. 



eldaec
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Reply #117 on: March 14, 2018, 08:59:46 AM

Few episodes in, nothing to complain about so far.

Still better than the other netflix marvel shows.

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jgsugden
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Reply #118 on: March 14, 2018, 09:10:02 AM


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Reply #119 on: March 14, 2018, 01:40:56 PM

I liked this a lot more than most of the Netflix stuff recently.  I enjoy the slower story telling when it's done well like it is here, not all comic book stuff needs to be dumb action. 





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Wasted
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Reply #120 on: March 14, 2018, 05:24:58 PM

I liked this a lot more than most of the Netflix stuff recently.  I enjoy the slower story telling when it's done well like it is here, not all comic book stuff needs to be dumb action. 





Jessica showed some growth this season I thought, she could have other shoulders to lean on too.  I guess I am just an optimist, Trish did not make good choices, I don't really like her very much.
jgsugden
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Reply #121 on: March 15, 2018, 06:05:14 PM

...Jessica showed some growth this season I thought, she could have other shoulders to lean on too.  I guess I am just an optimist, Trish did not make good choices, I don't really like her very much.
Which is the problem.  The character is defined by her unhealthy mental state.  She can't get truly 'healthy' until they're ready to end her show.

I'm curious if they might consider doing a spinoff Hellcat show before the next JJ season...

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Reply #122 on: March 15, 2018, 06:50:27 PM

...Jessica showed some growth this season I thought, she could have other shoulders to lean on too.  I guess I am just an optimist, Trish did not make good choices, I don't really like her very much.
Which is the problem.  The character is defined by her unhealthy mental state.  She can't get truly 'healthy' until they're ready to end her show.

I'm curious if they might consider doing a spinoff Hellcat show before the next JJ season...

Sigh. The mental health drives the drama sure but its not the point of the show. Jessica Jones isn't her alcoholism (which isn't that bad due to her healing factor), her PTSD (which she is coping with relatively well) or her anti-social tendencies (which while a mental heath issue is something millions of Americans call be an introvert so...). Her problems make her human or at the very least establish that she is human and relate-able. Maybe not with my problems, but she has problems. She is closer to what I'd imagine what good spider-man stories are made of and they did it with a D list character that had one semi-successful comic book run.

What we want with her ideally is to deal with aspects of her story and be a model of how to move on or recover. But as far as her character "growing" this season....

Well its not a bad thing. Her story grew, we filled in all the gaps, but did Jessica grow? Maybe not. I mean for all intent and purposes whether be her moral code or her approach to people, or her semi-toxic relationship with her sister... the story desperately wants her to change and Jessica stubbornly tells the story no. Nope. Can't do it. And that's not a inherently a bad thing. Because it lets her be wrong. Not because she was incompetent but because that's how she is as a person. Which means that season 3 maybe she actually does change for the better or worse. Everyone else around her did change because they had to and that's another good thing about this show.

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NowhereMan
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Reply #123 on: March 19, 2018, 08:44:08 AM

I had to double check the name on that post because it wasn't totally unreasonable and needlessly confrontational awesome, for real

I just got through this over the weekend and I quite liked it but it definitely dragged at points. I felt like one of them themes they were really going for was it is to be a hero, which the Netflix Marvel shows have tried very hard to grapple with. None of their mains, apart from Danny, want to be heroes really. Daredevil has it a compulsion and one he definitely doesn't want to embrace, Luke only wants to help his own community and Jessica has a strong moral code and abilities.

In this season we got to see Trish's need to be a hero, to help people and to be big and important. . Some episodes definitely could have been skipped though. The flashback one worked reasonably in a binge watching fashion but if I'd been watching these further apart I don't think I'd have rushed back to get to the next one. I think it might be something they're relying on a little bit too much. Longer format storytelling is good but I think they are getting a bit constrained with having a single tight story and coming up 3-4 episodes short.

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kaid
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Reply #124 on: March 19, 2018, 09:59:51 AM

...Jessica showed some growth this season I thought, she could have other shoulders to lean on too.  I guess I am just an optimist, Trish did not make good choices, I don't really like her very much.
Which is the problem.  The character is defined by her unhealthy mental state.  She can't get truly 'healthy' until they're ready to end her show.

I'm curious if they might consider doing a spinoff Hellcat show before the next JJ season...

Sigh. The mental health drives the drama sure but its not the point of the show. Jessica Jones isn't her alcoholism (which isn't that bad due to her healing factor), her PTSD (which she is coping with relatively well) or her anti-social tendencies (which while a mental heath issue is something millions of Americans call be an introvert so...). Her problems make her human or at the very least establish that she is human and relate-able. Maybe not with my problems, but she has problems. She is closer to what I'd imagine what good spider-man stories are made of and they did it with a D list character that had one semi-successful comic book run.

What we want with her ideally is to deal with aspects of her story and be a model of how to move on or recover. But as far as her character "growing" this season....

Well its not a bad thing. Her story grew, we filled in all the gaps, but did Jessica grow? Maybe not. I mean for all intent and purposes whether be her moral code or her approach to people, or her semi-toxic relationship with her sister... the story desperately wants her to change and Jessica stubbornly tells the story no. Nope. Can't do it. And that's not a inherently a bad thing. Because it lets her be wrong. Not because she was incompetent but because that's how she is as a person. Which means that season 3 maybe she actually does change for the better or worse. Everyone else around her did change because they had to and that's another good thing about this show.


I think at least at the end of this season she grew in that she started to understand and see how her choices that she did not always realize she was making left her untethered and alone and that is probably the first step in moving forward. I see her forgiving trish eventually but trish should have left it to the cops to do what she did. Also I think this season helped jessica to realize while she has killed she is not a killer.
NowhereMan
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Reply #125 on: March 19, 2018, 11:03:09 AM

See that's the thing that on reflection I think these Netflix shows have done well. Being a hero isn't cool or glamorous and it really, really isn't easy. They did, I think, a really good job of dealing with Jessica killing Killgrave and making it a line she's crossed without destroying the line. Trish comes across more like the DC vision of a hero: She wants to be big and loud and have lots of power without that same moral core. Ultimately
Ultimately I think that struggle with being a hero was what was lacking in Iron Fist (along with plenty of other things) but in terms of theme and plot that being absent was probably the major thing that left it feeling different from the other Netflix shows. Besides a little bit of 'am I really a servant of Kun'lun or am I my own free agent?' type questions, Danny never struggled with being a hero. As people said in the IF thread, they really couldn't choose an angle to take on him and probably should have just delayed or cancelled the show.

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Khaldun
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Reply #126 on: March 19, 2018, 04:11:39 PM

I actually really like that none of these shows really even want to argue that their character *should* be a conventionally heroic figure--that it's ok for Murdock to be a compulsive semi-Catholic who gets off on beating up bad people, for Jessica to be a self-loathing survivor of trauma hardcase who sometimes has a soft spot for somebody in trouble, and for Cage to just be trying to make life better in his neighborhood. That's a pretty fair re-interpretation of the idea of the street-level superhero--someone rooted in the local, who is just living their life, but who has an unusual talent or ability or outlook. In an odd way it makes me think the new Ms. Marvel might be a decent Netflix character except for the fact that her powers would break the budget pretty badly and she's not grimdark.
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Reply #127 on: March 19, 2018, 04:17:29 PM

... In an odd way it makes me think the new Ms. Marvel might be a decent Netflix character except for the fact that her powers would break the budget pretty badly and she's not grimdark.
I'm betting she is on Disney streaming - and doesn't need to destroy the budget.  Flash has an elastic hero on the (CW budget) show - if they were to focus the budget on that one character rather than working him in here and there and using the budget on the speedsters, you'd see more.  Specialization on such a character allows them to do more.  The giant fists are something they could build upon and not have to redo every time...

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eldaec
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Reply #128 on: March 20, 2018, 03:18:12 PM


Unlike the rest of the netflix shows it doesn't rely on over simplified support characters like Claire or Foggy. It also manages to talk about and show new york in way that isn't just silly - which neither Daredevil or Cage manage to do. It manages to keep to a believable scale, and unlike almost all marvel stuff it has good villains.

Yeah, it could probably be shorter.

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eldaec
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Reply #129 on: March 26, 2018, 08:49:49 AM

I got to the end of this - and it is way better than the other marvel shows.

IGH turned out so much better than I feared from the way the story starts, and balance struck by main antagonist was in a different league to the Hand or Diamondback. More than anything though, they managed to make an entire show about addiction, trauma and mental illness without it turning grimdark or turning into a Very Special Blossom.

I even found myself happy watching the Trinity and whatshisname side quests.

Just want sequels to this and Punisher please.

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Reply #130 on: April 02, 2018, 03:57:53 PM

I just felt sorry for Jessica's mother the whole way through this. It's a story about someone who does terrible things because she has brain damage and isn't in control of herself, and very rarely does anyone try to help her.

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Reply #131 on: April 12, 2018, 03:06:38 PM

Officially renewed for Season 3.

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Reply #132 on: April 13, 2018, 09:11:00 AM

I got to the end of this - and it is way better than the other marvel shows.

IGH turned out so much better than I feared from the way the story starts, and balance struck by main antagonist was in a different league to the Hand or Diamondback. More than anything though, they managed to make an entire show about addiction, trauma and mental illness without it turning grimdark or turning into a Very Special Blossom.

I even found myself happy watching the Trinity and whatshisname side quests.

Just want sequels to this and Punisher please.

Yup IGH turned out more stupid than evil. I was expecting secret government project or shady corporation but looks like it was more just people who had good intentions that went way to far although they did have at least some success. Also their lead doctor took a lot of responsibility for the problems with jessica's mother he fucked up but at least tried to own it in his own way as best he could to give her as much quality of life as possible. No big baddies just a lot of broken people trying to find the path.
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