f13.net

We have a Jessica.

http://tvline.com/2014/12/04/krysten-ritter-jessica-jones-cast-marvel-netflix-series/ (http://tvline.com/2014/12/04/krysten-ritter-jessica-jones-cast-marvel-netflix-series/)

I like her in most things.  I will be curious to see what she does to buff up for the part.

She could start by eating a sandwich and taking an acting class.

I dunno, I thought she played an excellent corpse on BB  :grin:

Putting aside BiA23, as that was meant to be over the top, I've liked her in a bunch of roles.  I do not think she - physically - screams Jessica Jones to me, but I'm curious where they'll take it.  I'm more than willing to give Marvel and her talents a shot.

Only really ever seen her in Breaking Bad where I think she did a perfectly ok job. I don't really care much about Jessica Jones as a character though, although that's partly due to how she got shoehorned into continuity.

Literally the only things I know about Jessica Jones are that she is married to Luke Cage and they have a kid named Danielle. Danielle's babysitter is often Squirrel Girl.

I hope they have Squirrel Girl appear on the Netflix shows.   :awesome_for_real:

I don't know who the actress is or who Jessica Jones is.

So it works for me.   :oh_i_see:

If it helps, the Kyrsten Ritter could possibly pull off the Baroness look (she's at least got the hair for it).

You're only saying that because my feelings for The Baroness are a matter of f13 record.

Hmmmm, Baroness....


 :heart:

On this we agree. I don't have a problem with her as an actress having only seen her in Breaking Bad, but I thought Jessica Jones was a model? Alexandria Daddario would have been more physically appropriate (and hotter).

Well, Krysten Ritter was literally a model before she was an actress.  So there's that.

Really? She doesn't look it to me.

There are models and then there are Models.  If any of us knew Rytter in real life, she'd probably be the prettiest person we know.  

Regardless, I do not think she needs to be a model to do the core of the story justice.  I don't see their path to telling the story with this casting, but I trust that they have a vision.  IMHO, Marvel still has not tripped, so I give them the benefit of the doubt until they put something on screen that I do not enjoy.

Oh, I'm glad that girl from Bitch got a new show.  Yeah, she's really cute and has a good 'screen presence' to me.  Having known very little about JJ, I have no problem with this casting. 

David Tennant is playing the Purple Man. (http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/403131-david-tennant-enters-the-marvel-cinematic-universe-as-the-purple-man) Also they've given a bit more of a description of the show's premise than I think I've seen so far:


So it sounds like they're pulling very directly from Alias.

I wonder if they'll use her origin story (without the Peter Parker crush / Johnny Storm crush / does this girl ever have a hero fetish) or tweak it to align with Murdock's origin (which is similar)?  They're basically similar stories.... and I am wondering about the other Daredevil crossovers.  There is a minor villain in the Daredevil show that plays a part in her longer origin story in the comics...

Yes plz.

I heard a pretty good argument that this will hit Netflix on either 10/30 or 11/6.  It is based upon an assumption that certain production events (including the casting of various parallel roles on AKA JJ and Daredevil (such as Kingpin and Purple Man / Kilgrave)) are taking place an equal number of weeks prior to release.  However, I think they might push it up by a month or so as the second series might involve less setup than the first (as they're filmed with many of the same production elements and in the same area).

We were close: 11/20 premiere date set.  I'll likely work from home that day...

Premiere teaser trailer thing. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=ywZE-NEJ2Ik)

God help me but I cannot keep up with everything Netflix is producing. Good for them.

I can only hope the traditional networks are wailing and gnashing teeth all around. They brought this on themselves by deciding they weren't getting paid enough for their shit content. Now they're getting paid even less as ad dollars and eyeballs go elsewhere.

Full trailer. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWHUjuJ8zxE)

This is going to be really dark.

Watching Marvel try thread the needle with JJ is going be interesting one way or another.

What the fuck was that.

I liked it but I have little knowledge of the original Jessica Jones story.

So far, so good.  However, that is a pretty dire tone to try to maintain for an entire season.  I'm hoping there is more light heartedness mixed in there, too.

David Tennant is Killgrave? Okay, I'm in.

--Dave

Looks like it is going to use the Alias storyline for most of the shows theme. 

That girl tho. Not my cup of tea at all. She looks like an emaciated woo girl.

I've seen the first episode. I'm really enjoying it so far.Still not sold on this being the best role for Rytter, but she is doing a good job with it. I can just imagine her doing more with a role that was less muscle and more shadow.

Enjoyed the first episode.  Pretty, pretty, pretty dark.  Can't wait to see which couch whale among us finishes it first.  I'm getting a new recliner tomorrow though so it might be me!

Cheetos, Marvel and Heart Disease!

Halfway through the season.  Pretty good so far, but not as good as Daredevil.  I still do not buy the actress as a superhero, though.

After watching the first one, really liked that they didn't feel the need to do an origin story, and that main character has an actual past we don't know about. I don't think Marvel have been confident enough to do that before. This felt even more relaxed about being a grown up drama than Daredevil.

Rytter is ok, but the supporting cast is much stronger.

You just haven't watched far enough if you think they won't do the whole origin story / flashbacks.  :oh_i_see:

I watched it halfway thru the season but I'm going to put it on backburner and watch the comments to see if the latter half is worth watching since I felt it got pretty mediocre by episode 7. The actors are ok but the script seems a bit weak and a better writer might have made it into an interesting psychological thriller without any superpowers.

I finished it and I liked the series overall.  I think Ritter is kind of weak as Jessica Jones, but the rest of the cast is solid.  I think it's on par with Daredevil, but it's definitely a different feel/tone of a show.  I think it's biggest hurdle is that Jessica Jones isn't as popular a character as Daredevil.

I'd really like to see a Hellcat show and at least they got some of Luke Cage's back story out of the way already.

Im glad ill never have to watch supergirl now that this show exist.

Can I just mention how good I think the casting on Luke Cage is?

Yeah Luke Cage is perfect casting. 

This sounds identical casting to Daredevil.  Villain=perfect, Hero=awkward, Sidekick Hero=excellent.  I will still watch it.  Can't be worse than Agents of Shield or Gotham...


And to derail:  in all these shows the actors playing the villains (e.g. Ward, Kingpin, Penguin) are the best and most interesting.  Really don't understand showbiz.

So yeah, Luke Cage and Tennant were awesome in this but I still really didn't like Ritter as Jessica. There were a couple of episodes that felt kind of weak, but overall it was a pretty damn good show. I still like DareDevil more, but this is worth watching imo (even with a couple of shaky mid-season episodes).

Tennant's Kilgrave could be the best marvel villain to date.  The sheer absence of humanity coupled with the worst power you could imagine giving that sort of monster is terrifying in a way that space aliens and laser robots just can't match.

They way they built him up before you saw him was great. 

Finished. Good, but not near Daredevil good. I don't like that she and Kilgrave never mention the Devil that was all over the news... Or that the NY skyline is missing Stark/Avengers tower.  I also found Ritter to be a bit wooden and the portrayal of her powers to be inconsistent in power levels and pretty much straight out of the 1980s in quality. There was a lot that was good, but the negatives were really disappointing to me as most of them seemed avoidable.

Russia cut my internet off for no obvious reason the day this launched (using my phone).  Starting to feel it's not a coincidence.   :oh_i_see:

Really want to watch this.

I'm not gonna nitpick you on everything but the idea that this somehow needed to be part of the larger interconnected marvel universe up to date with the latest goings on is horse shit.  Perhaps they should have little asterisk during scenes saying *happened in agents of shield ep35" when something is referenced? No? That's because it would be terrible just like it is in comics.  The marvel world is obviously interconnected, it doesn't NEED to be referenced every single time because the whole point of world building is that once you lay the foundation you DON'T need to keep laying it.

Inconsistencies in a shared world should be addressed or avoided. The lack of Stark tower, the failure of the PI in Hell's Kitchen to know of the biggest news in her area since the invasion of New York?  If it is a shared universe, it needs to be a shared universe.

Most of the other problems I have with the show go into spoiler realm for those that have not seen it, so I'll wait on those.

If the choice is Jessica Jones season 2 or season 1 of a different character, I'd lean towards a Moon Night or Punisher series at this point, but That would not be saying I would not come back for JJ 2.... Overall I enjoyed it despite the problems.

^This. They made enough mention to the Marvel universe without overdoing it. Especially when JJ and Killgrave were only worried about each other for the most part, they did not give a shit about what was going on outside of their own little world as they rotated between hunter and prey. Which leads to not needing the Avengers tower either since this was even more focused on a micro level than DD was. DD was worried about all of Hell's kitchen, JJ was only worried about 5 people. There's no need to even zoom out and see the Avengers tower.

However, I do agree that a Moon Knight or Punisher (if Punisher is done well enough on DD s2) would be preferred. Especially as another reminder as to why these shows are so much better when they're not being held back by network tv.

Can't help thinking that some of the "problems" people are talking about relate to expectations rather than a drop in quality.

Agents underwhelmed following expectations set by the films.

Daredevil outperformed following expectations set by Agents.

Jessica is being talked down for not being a huge leap forward from Daredevil. I'm only a few episodes in, but I don't see any more issues with this than Daredevil had.

Enjoyed it more than DD (which was also good), but

There is a difference between not mentioning the shared universe, which I'm perfectly fine with (specially when they can't even use the real names and have to continuously say crap like "the big green guy" and "the flag waver") and something like Avengers tower not being there at all. 

This isn't a supergirl situation where they can't mention other marvel shit, any choice to omit names is very much intentional. Besides I think that everyone is trying to forget the avengers now  :drill:

So you'd rather they show something that in no way shape or form needs to be shown instead of mentioning the shared universe which is currently building up to civil war? Really?


And yeah, "flag waver" felt more like Jessica putting her attitude on his name while "the big green guy" felt more like she truly doesn't know his name because most people don't at this point afaik.

In a world where we refer to people by nicknames all the time, I'm not sure "big green guy" is any different than referring to Calvin Johnson as Megatron.

Who?

I'd consider the tower to be a continuity error and exactly as important as if she were sitting in Cage's bar and her glass was half empty in one shot and half full in the next.

American Football player.

Edit: this guy
(http://i.imgur.com/zq89aDZ.png)

Are there any specific shots were the tower would definitely be in the picture? I honestly have no clue in new york where the tower is even supposed to be nor can I think of more then 1-2 shots(up to ep9) where they even show a slight skyline.

edit: reddit search to the rescue but the consensus seems to be it just wasnt cost effective to add it into the shot, continuity error or not. It was however in promo art/posters so they acknowledge the tower would be there. https://www.reddit.com/r/JessicaJones/comments/3tsjm5/starkavengers_tower_missing/

I haven't watched it yet, but if the Avengers tower being missing in one or two shots is the worst geeks can throw at it, I'm going to guess it's worth watching.

I forgot about the bridge shot and how it should have shown the tower for that whole 3 seconds out of the 13 hours of show. So as minor as it may be it is a continuity issue, yet it's so small and dumb I still don't care or find it necessary. Especially given that the Avengers logo is on a side of the tower which is not viewable by Hell's Kitchen anyways:

Pretty much. There are more valid concerns in this thread, but nothing major. I think eldaec got it right by saying it's not a drop of quality but a rise of expectations, since the show really is very good. Hell, it's worth watching just for Tennant as Killgrave imo.

That's bullshit.  Where's his fusion cannon ?

There is a chance that there could be riders in contracts that 'cost' Marvel money when the real character name is used.  It could be money going to actors (unlikely), or money going from one hand of Marvel (TV) to the another (movies) (not too unlikely).  Regardless, it'd explain some of the assanine nicknames.  The movies reference the Hulk in media coverage in both Avengers and Avengers II, so the name of the monster that helpped save the world should be known widely.

The tower should have been in several shots of the city.  If you rewatch the series and think about it, you'll see a lot of shots with the skyline.

Anyways, those are minor quibbles when it comes to the series.  My major complaint is the ...
I did, however, love the way they did the Luke Cage fights. 

He's not allowed to carry it on him during games.

Oh.  That makes sense then.  Cool.

Here's JG and his spoiler problem with the show.






































































































Here's the point of JJ's motivation and the show.

Just finished it, show was excellent.

My only complaints would be how inconsistent Jessica's powers are portrayed and random cop man character. The powers were likely a budget thing, so whatever, I'll deal. Cop man character though? Holy contrived.

Watched ep1 last night and will definitely watch more.

I think they knocked it out of the park with that casting. The actor they have playing luke cage is perfect I am very pleased and given I was looking forward to luke cage a lot more than jessica jones thats awesome. And as mentioned they got a lot of his backstory established now so his series can move forward a lot easier.

Casting, acting and the way they portrayed his fighting style (and invulnerability) all really worked.  I'm really looking forward to his series.

Recent articles seem to indicate that Jessica Jones 2 before Defenders is unlikely.  One of the notes in the article on Blastr mentioned there is a contractual limit on when Defenders can be made... which combined with the comments that there may not be time to do a Jessica Jones 2 before it implies it might come between late 2016 (at the earlies) and late 2017 (at the latest).

Finished!  It took me awhile, but she grew on me.  As mentioned above, Luke Cage is perfect.  I think I liked it better than DD, which was a surprise because I really liked DD and I didn't think I would be able to get over the Ritter casting choice.

Iron Fist (the one I've been looking forward to the most of all of these) isn't scheduled till 2017.  So unless they decide to cut him, 2016 is unlikely.

Only watched the first two episodes of this so far but I'm really liking it. It's really not what I was expecting, but I'm completely unfamiliar with the source material.

While they've recently said Iron Fist will happen, they have not addressed the format. That means late 217 for Defenders seems likely...

Just finished it.  Good show but not as good as DD.  Nice atmosphere and gritty super heroics.  Ending was good but...
So yeah, good show overall, but pretty far down on the Marvel tree for me.

Because she was his consolation prize.

Finished this. I thought it was better than Daredevil. It goes a little wobbly in the middle, but no more than DD does toward the end.

Rytter grew into Jones (or I got more used to it).

I have no idea what the 'not linked to MCU' argument is about. If anything I thought they shoehorned too many references in, but using the general awareness of superheroes simply as an excuse for bystanders not to go batshit crazy was a good move that helped stop the scale exploding along the way.

Also
 - Kilgrave great, horrific onscreen, but great sense of threat even when he was off screen.
 - Nuke, Luke, Hellcat, all great, and as supporting characters, more fully realised and more confidently handled than I can remember in anything MCU.
 - Up till this point MCU only had 1 female character worth a damn, this show is full of them.

Whole thing demonstrated better than Daredevil that you really can make a dark superhero story watchable, you just need writers who aren't terrible and a willingness to follow through with concept and not simply blow up buildings.

Only critcisms, we didn't need so many flashbacks, and could probably have edited about an hour or so out of the flabby middle episodes.

There was some discussion about what people would like another season of. I don't care either way so long as they have a new story worth telling that doesn't require them to reset everyone's character development. As Jessica remains more dysfunctional than Matt, it probably makes it easier with her, but I'd be on board with either.

Season 2 confirmed. No date yet.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/jessica-jones-renewed-second-season-856423 (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/jessica-jones-renewed-second-season-856423)

Rumors are it won't hit til after Defenders.  Unless Netflix really gets the ball rolling.. we still have Luke Cage and Iron Fist to go. 

I'm curious about when it will come... Netflix is making a lot more series than I realized...

Nevermind... for the immediate future, 1 or 2 series a year seems to be it...

http://tvline.com/2016/01/17/netflix-iron-fist-casting-premiere-date/ (http://tvline.com/2016/01/17/netflix-iron-fist-casting-premiere-date/)

IMHO these Netflix Marvel shows (Daredevil, Jessica Jones, maybe Luke Cage) are better than any other superhero series or movie to date. Really enjoyed this.

I read some feminist blogger whine about Jessica Jones being in the Defenders instead of her own series  :awesome_for_real:

Love the show but I really don't want to know any fans. I think the difference between crap like Carter and Shield verse DareDevil and Jones is that Netflix has no obligation to make the movies look good. Carter and Shield are shameless marvel marketing ploys created to sell more movies. So they come off as blotted messes being push out to give fanboys something to watch between marvel movies.

Which is also why Flash and Arrow work. No movies to tie into, so no obligation to make some movie-verse look good or relevant to everyday viewers. This might change if Batman vs Superman and Suicide Squad are successful.

There is a broader point that Disney should want to address, Jessica Jones and Agent Carter are the only female leads in the MCU and neither have a movie. Complaining that her next appearance is in a 75% male team is silly given the comic context but complaining that the first female lead in the films is in the 20th movie, is not unreasonable.

Disney is in the business of trying to make truckloads of money not scoring political points with affirmative action advocates.

Disney already has the girl market in full lockdown, Marvel and Star Wars are their boy franchises. 

The Jessica Jones character from Netflix couldn't really carry a movie on her own. She was too somber and playing up her superpowers more - as would probably be needed for a good supes movie - would jar with the Netflix presentation.

Meh if Marvel was better at retaining and developing villains than yeah a Jessica Jones movie would work. 2 hour crime noir with a super powered/super ruthless villain and a conspiracy as Jessica wades through the case creating more innocent victims than she saves.

I think probably they could go trawling through some of the Heroes for Hire or New Avengers plotlines looking for a good story or story hook. They've pretty much touched already on the major plot lines from Alias, and the ones they haven't touched don't work in the MCU (Jessica accidentally stumbling on Captain America's secret ID). She might be an interesting person to put up against the Taskmaster? Though he seems also like a good Defenders enemy as a whole.

They just need to get Cage and Jones married with a kid so they can introduce Squirrel Girl as the babysitter.   :awesome_for_real:

(http://i.imgur.com/fPgERib.gif)

Seriously, we get Squirrel Girl anywhere near the MCU, and I am outta here.

--Dave

We are already getting a Damage Control sit-com.. so it's not a stretch. 

I finally got through this entire season. It didn't take this long because I didn't like it, I just had a lot of other shit on my Tivo to clear off.

This was good. DAMN good. I think the writing was actually a little better than Daredevil in that the flabby middle didn't feel quite so flabby here as in DD. DD is still my favorite because of the character but this was such a tight script overall that tackled some really weighty, meaty issues with maturity. Killgrave was just goddamn perfect from writing to acting. I'm glad they didn't go with purple skin because it would have had to have been a totally different story with that, and wouldn't have fit the tone. I thought Ritter did fine with JJ, but Luke Cage and Trish Walker/Hellcat were perfect. I really dug the actor they got to be Nuke, and didn't even realize who that was until he popped the reds. I hope we see him again.

The trailer they just released for Luke Cage is just goddamn awesome. Perfect casting and perfect use of his powers. Also perfect use of WU-TANG.

Geez, this.  So much this.   The other trailers were kinda meh, but I really, really want to see what that rampage was about.

These last couple of posts made me go watch the Luke Cage trailer. Holy shit, that was fucking awesome.

Wu-Tang Clan Luke Cage man ain't nuttin' to fuck wit'.  :why_so_serious:

Speaking of which, there's also a Defenders teaser.

There's an Iron Fist teaser, too

https://youtu.be/QCSPda7xQ3s (https://youtu.be/QCSPda7xQ3s)

Jessica Jones 2 and Daredevil 3 will be in 2018 per various recent articles. Still no date on Punisher, but I think the order will be Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Defenders, Punisher, Jessica Jones 2, Daredevil 3 all in the next 2 years.

Best use of Old Dirty Bastard since Mr Robot.

Started watching this, since I liked Heroes for Hire and whatnot. Don't remember JJ from comics, don't know when she happened.

I liked how the series started and Luke Cage was awesome in this.

I didn't hate the actress, but she didn't bring much to the role. As possibly the only person who doesn't like David Tennant, that removed the whole 'villain was good' part for me, he was just obnoxious. Trinity was decent at times, though they didn't give her much. Same for Calamity Jane, she had a couple decent scenes but they overall wasted the hell out of her.

But what's killing it for me is I hate the whole shitty crutch of mind control as a plot device. It's lame and even with as lame as it is, they waste it by the middle of the season by just cheesing it even harder. It's as bad as Shield's 'are they a bad guy or good guy/who betrays the team this week?' nonsense.

I'm on, I dunno even, ep 9? Just in cruise control with it on while I play Galaxy of Heroes before bed. Terrible show with loooong stretches of 'who gives a shit' between spurts of 'ok, I'll watch this scene'.

The mind control thing is a key element in her history.  It is her origin story.  It had to be done if you're going to make the character.

I liked it, but not as much s DD.  However, I am looking forward to Luke Cage at the end of this month far more than I was looking forward to JJ.

Wow. I thought the mind control problem was 100% the most interesting thing in the show (and in her comic). It's really rare that superhero comics treat mind control seriously as a premise--about how awful it would be, and about the bad things that could follow from it. It's perfect for the more "realistic" MCU, though, and it was handled really well. The only thing that I found disappointing in the series was the pacing, which was pretty awful. This was about 3 episodes too long, and individual episodes were occasionally just really mind-numbingly dull in parts. Compression of the stuff involving her neighbors, of the back-and-forth of dealing with Killgrave, of the Patsy plot arc, all would be good. Nuke/Agent Simpson shouldn't have been in it at all, he was a serious distraction.

The pacing issue is something all of the Marvel and DC TV series needs to address though, because most of the story arcs are WAY too long. I've spoken about this ad nauseum with Arrow and Flash - both shows suffer because they feel they have to focus the entire season on one big bad instead of breaking the season up into discrete chunks of 2-3 main antagonists per season.

I had no issue with the length of those arcs, but they lacked real impact because they were always so very clearly sub plots, they needed a stronger non-Kilgrave drive. Failing to really explore the control exerted by Patsy's mother, or by the crazy doctor supplying Nuke, seemed odd given the obvious parallel with Kilgrave.

The way DD2 handled the punisher and electra was a better balance.

The only sub plot I would have shortened was the flashback origin stuff. The cast had already sold me on who they were and how they felt today, I didn't learn anything new from the formulaic origin.

I had no issue with this series at all. It was a good drama that had superpowers in it. I watched it before I had even heard of Daredevil, so I guess I wasn't comparing it to anything, and then I enjoyed the shit out of both series of Daredevil. I've been recommending people do it that way. I don't like any other Marvel implementation, just these Netflix shows, and I've never read the comics, or spoken with anyone who has.

Arrow and Flash should be 12-14 episodes. That should be the order for a lot of superhero stuff--between 8-14 episodes. Syndication is not an issue any more--the economies it produced can be safely left behind. Stranger Things is a great model--that had ZERO padding in it.

I enjoyed DD, though it was a bit unrelenting grimdark for my taste.

Anyway, I agree about the story arcs. It's good to have the time to dig deeper into characters, but they should stick to the old style like x-files or something. Sprinkle monster of the day episodes between main story arc eps. Great way to showcase a ton of bit villains and heroes, too.

Nah, I'm so happy they aren't doing episodic shit.  It's what prevented a lot of TV shows from being really good.  Hope the trend continues of tight, large story arcs.

This is back.

First impressions...

I'm nervous about the possibly they have made the series about Jessica's origin. Because I give no fucks about Jessica's origin.

Also feels less formulaic than daredevil, cage, or season 1.

It was a meh season.  Like all Netflix series, it could have been told in 4 to 6 episodes and been a lot tighter.

Yeah, it felt like a mini-series with extra episodes tacked on in the middle, and the third act dragged out way too far. Still good TV in most ways, but if I had been watching it once a week, they would have lost me somewhere around Episode 5, and I'd catch up later.

--Dave

I don't understand why they're not getting smarter about avoiding the tremendous padding/dragginess of these runs. Everything should be getting leaner, smarter, more focused, but it's arguably getting worse over time.

This is either as good or better than season 1. And season 1 definitely dragged its bellow to the finish line in the middle a lot more than season 2. I mean we are forgetting that one time Jessica and Kilgrave did a superhero team up?  :awesome_for_real:

I have literally no complaints about the show even subverts some expectations and not even to be subversive but to explain how the characters while competent, capable, and strong, are still heavily flawed and can be down right wrong about a number of things.
 

I really wish they'd go to a 5 to 7 episode season model and give us twice as many seasons.  They'd be well served by giving us a new season every 9 months (rather than 18) and tightening up everything.

I had trouble focusing on this season - and the characters seemed very inconsistent.  They did not take a journey so much as they wandered aimlessly from plot point to plot point.  And the ending... it felt like they realized they were most of the way through an episode and decided, "I'm bored.  Let's just end it here.  Let's see if I can wrap it up in 2 pages..."

My expectations for Marvel shows on Netflix are definitely on the decline. 

I liked this a lot more than most of the Netflix stuff recently.  I enjoy the slower story telling when it's done well like it is here, not all comic book stuff needs to be dumb action. 

Few episodes in, nothing to complain about so far.

Still better than the other netflix marvel shows.

The source material spells out a likely path for her.

Jessica showed some growth this season I thought, she could have other shoulders to lean on too.  I guess I am just an optimist, Trish did not make good choices, I don't really like her very much.

Which is the problem.  The character is defined by her unhealthy mental state.  She can't get truly 'healthy' until they're ready to end her show.

I'm curious if they might consider doing a spinoff Hellcat show before the next JJ season...

Sigh. The mental health drives the drama sure but its not the point of the show. Jessica Jones isn't her alcoholism (which isn't that bad due to her healing factor), her PTSD (which she is coping with relatively well) or her anti-social tendencies (which while a mental heath issue is something millions of Americans call be an introvert so...). Her problems make her human or at the very least establish that she is human and relate-able. Maybe not with my problems, but she has problems. She is closer to what I'd imagine what good spider-man stories are made of and they did it with a D list character that had one semi-successful comic book run.

What we want with her ideally is to deal with aspects of her story and be a model of how to move on or recover. But as far as her character "growing" this season....

Well its not a bad thing. Her story grew, we filled in all the gaps, but did Jessica grow? Maybe not. I mean for all intent and purposes whether be her moral code or her approach to people, or her semi-toxic relationship with her sister... the story desperately wants her to change and Jessica stubbornly tells the story no. Nope. Can't do it. And that's not a inherently a bad thing. Because it lets her be wrong. Not because she was incompetent but because that's how she is as a person. Which means that season 3 maybe she actually does change for the better or worse. Everyone else around her did change because they had to and that's another good thing about this show.

I had to double check the name on that post because it wasn't totally unreasonable and needlessly confrontational :awesome_for_real:

I just got through this over the weekend and I quite liked it but it definitely dragged at points. I felt like one of them themes they were really going for was it is to be a hero, which the Netflix Marvel shows have tried very hard to grapple with. None of their mains, apart from Danny, want to be heroes really. Daredevil has it a compulsion and one he definitely doesn't want to embrace, Luke only wants to help his own community and Jessica has a strong moral code and abilities.

In this season we got to see Trish's need to be a hero, to help people and to be big and important. . Some episodes definitely could have been skipped though. The flashback one worked reasonably in a binge watching fashion but if I'd been watching these further apart I don't think I'd have rushed back to get to the next one. I think it might be something they're relying on a little bit too much. Longer format storytelling is good but I think they are getting a bit constrained with having a single tight story and coming up 3-4 episodes short.

I think at least at the end of this season she grew in that she started to understand and see how her choices that she did not always realize she was making left her untethered and alone and that is probably the first step in moving forward. I see her forgiving trish eventually but trish should have left it to the cops to do what she did. Also I think this season helped jessica to realize while she has killed she is not a killer.

See that's the thing that on reflection I think these Netflix shows have done well. Being a hero isn't cool or glamorous and it really, really isn't easy. They did, I think, a really good job of dealing with Jessica killing Killgrave and making it a line she's crossed without destroying the line. Trish comes across more like the DC vision of a hero: She wants to be big and loud and have lots of power without that same moral core. Ultimately
Ultimately I think that struggle with being a hero was what was lacking in Iron Fist (along with plenty of other things) but in terms of theme and plot that being absent was probably the major thing that left it feeling different from the other Netflix shows. Besides a little bit of 'am I really a servant of Kun'lun or am I my own free agent?' type questions, Danny never struggled with being a hero. As people said in the IF thread, they really couldn't choose an angle to take on him and probably should have just delayed or cancelled the show.

I actually really like that none of these shows really even want to argue that their character *should* be a conventionally heroic figure--that it's ok for Murdock to be a compulsive semi-Catholic who gets off on beating up bad people, for Jessica to be a self-loathing survivor of trauma hardcase who sometimes has a soft spot for somebody in trouble, and for Cage to just be trying to make life better in his neighborhood. That's a pretty fair re-interpretation of the idea of the street-level superhero--someone rooted in the local, who is just living their life, but who has an unusual talent or ability or outlook. In an odd way it makes me think the new Ms. Marvel might be a decent Netflix character except for the fact that her powers would break the budget pretty badly and she's not grimdark.

I'm betting she is on Disney streaming - and doesn't need to destroy the budget.  Flash has an elastic hero on the (CW budget) show - if they were to focus the budget on that one character rather than working him in here and there and using the budget on the speedsters, you'd see more.  Specialization on such a character allows them to do more.  The giant fists are something they could build upon and not have to redo every time...

Unlike the rest of the netflix shows it doesn't rely on over simplified support characters like Claire or Foggy. It also manages to talk about and show new york in way that isn't just silly - which neither Daredevil or Cage manage to do. It manages to keep to a believable scale, and unlike almost all marvel stuff it has good villains.

Yeah, it could probably be shorter.

I got to the end of this - and it is way better than the other marvel shows.

IGH turned out so much better than I feared from the way the story starts, and balance struck by main antagonist was in a different league to the Hand or Diamondback. More than anything though, they managed to make an entire show about addiction, trauma and mental illness without it turning grimdark or turning into a Very Special Blossom.

I even found myself happy watching the Trinity and whatshisname side quests.

Just want sequels to this and Punisher please.

I just felt sorry for Jessica's mother the whole way through this. It's a story about someone who does terrible things because she has brain damage and isn't in control of herself, and very rarely does anyone try to help her.

Officially renewed for Season 3.

Yup IGH turned out more stupid than evil. I was expecting secret government project or shady corporation but looks like it was more just people who had good intentions that went way to far although they did have at least some success. Also their lead doctor took a lot of responsibility for the problems with jessica's mother he fucked up but at least tried to own it in his own way as best he could to give her as much quality of life as possible. No big baddies just a lot of broken people trying to find the path.

So this is back.

Still great.

I liked it, everything that was there was good.  Overall it seemed to lack something.  Maybe knowing this is the last season made we want something more, but this time lacked a little something extra to make it special.

Most of the way though.

Doesn't have the usual mid season lull. Manages to do genuine threat better than any other Netflix marvel.

And shows you can do dark superheroes just fine if you have a good writer and crew. Feels even darker than last year. I think the non-super villain helps enormously. Carrie Anne Moss's bits drag a little.

It is kind of weird to be watching it purely on its own merits and not as part of a bigger thing. Weird in a good way though.