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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  World of Warcraft  |  Topic: Patch 6.0.2 - It's a Trap! 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Fabricated
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Reply #70 on: November 19, 2014, 03:47:16 PM

Give it a few months.

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Mithas
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Reply #71 on: November 19, 2014, 03:58:19 PM

That would explain the extremely long queues. I'm sure they didn't anticipate this.
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #72 on: November 19, 2014, 04:35:13 PM

Give it a few months.

It'll drop for sure but this is a really good expac compared to...almost every other one.  I'd expect a big retention.

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Hawkbit
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Reply #73 on: November 19, 2014, 07:09:04 PM

It really hammers home how much I did not like the Panda xpac.  At the time of Cata, it seemed necessary to bring the base game up to speed with their direction, even if it ended up being a mistake.  However, they followed it up with the most uninteresting content in Pandaria. 

Which is a real shame, because the Panda zones are really well crafted and there was a lot of solid content there.  But it wasn't fun. 
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Reply #74 on: November 19, 2014, 09:47:09 PM

Stop, you're making me want to buy this.

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Reply #75 on: November 20, 2014, 02:17:00 AM

Don't.

It's ok.  But you'll be finished in a day or so and then you're left grinding out fucking garrisons because they haven't learned the lesson of The Garden.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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Reply #76 on: November 20, 2014, 06:04:22 AM

It'll drop for sure but this is a really good expac compared to...almost every other one.  I'd expect a big retention.

Can you go into some detail? What features do you think puts this in front?

Also, it's outselling Pandaria 3.3M to 2.7M in the first week. That's pretty stout for a 27% growth. It also explains the sub growth.

I'm just confused. Is it marketing? Is it the fact that people absolutely despised pandas and Asian themed crap and were waiting it out? Is it the housing? On paper, this expansion looks similar if not stripped down from prior years.

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #77 on: November 20, 2014, 06:20:57 AM

It'll drop for sure but this is a really good expac compared to...almost every other one.  I'd expect a big retention.

Can you go into some detail? What features do you think puts this in front?

Also, it's outselling Pandaria 3.3M to 2.7M in the first week. That's pretty stout for a 27% growth. It also explains the sub growth.

I'm just confused. Is it marketing? Is it the fact that people absolutely despised pandas and Asian themed crap and were waiting it out? Is it the housing? On paper, this expansion looks similar if not stripped down from prior years.

To me it's just things like the setting actually being good, zone storylines being exciting, the way your quest reward can get upgraded to blue/purple and even the garrison is a fun little mini game(not housing at all but still fun)


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Zetor
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Reply #78 on: November 20, 2014, 06:23:32 AM

Well, just to quote the positive things from my prev post:
To balance out the bitching somewhat (why so serious?), the expansion is... pretty fun? I think this is the best levelling experience I've ever seen, even better than WOTLK. The zone-scale stories are fairly good (and most of them have nothing to do with the pants-on-head time travel metaplot, thank cthulhu). The dungeons are rough but doable, and they don't quite get into the Cata dickpunch league of "one mouthbreather can and will wipe your group". The garrison minigame is surprisingly fun for now. The endgame 'daily activity' thing is a lot more like GW2's "go in this general area and do stuff as you like until the activity meter is filled", which is a great improvement over any of the endgame daily activities I remember from any phase of WOW, and almost makes them doable without wanting to stab whoever thought up the "daily quest" concept. Almost.

Really, the solo questing / levelling experience is probably the best I've ever seen in any diku... which is surprising, considering that the previous two expansions SUCKED in this respect. Cata was all about a superlinear "story" on rails, and MoP was just bland and uninteresting.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 06:25:47 AM by Zetor »

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Reply #79 on: November 20, 2014, 09:20:53 AM

So in the end it really is that people like the setting better, and the leveling isn't as rails.

Also it seems difficulty didn't jack up, and they added housing sort of.

The filling up a meter thing is much better to me than dailies, that's a nice QOL shift.

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kaid
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Reply #80 on: November 20, 2014, 09:21:40 AM

Don't.

It's ok.  But you'll be finished in a day or so and then you're left grinding out fucking garrisons because they haven't learned the lesson of The Garden.



Actually one ironically good way to build your garrison up is simply play super casual. The garrison resource chest stores up to 500 resources or 3 days worth. So if you only log in to play a couple times a week you wind up getting big chunks of garrison stuff and less time to fritter them away on random stuff. Its a lot less annoying to me than the farm. The farm I did for about a week and went NOPE NOPE NOPE and never went back. The garrison at least so far has been much more fun for me and a lot less "work".
Ironwood
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Reply #81 on: November 20, 2014, 09:26:00 AM

Yeah, except once you get hooked on the follower mini-game, that just won't happen.  At all.

Also, what I meant by learning the lesson is that you have to do this shit on all your alts again and again and again and I suspect it stops being fun after....the first one.

Guildy has 6 Garrisons all at level 2.  I'm just forehead smackingly nonplussed.

Also, tradeskills got raped to the point you're better of not having them.  That's some meta level shit right there.  I literally can't see the point of having any gathering skills at all now, just alts with different buildings, all feeding each other.  I think it's crazy shoes.

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Zetor
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Reply #82 on: November 20, 2014, 11:16:59 AM

Yeah, crafting is complete shit now. I have no idea what Blizz is trying to accomplish there...

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Reply #83 on: November 20, 2014, 12:21:51 PM

I have 5 garrisons at level 2 - took a week of playing super casually because of work. It's not hard to hit at all I think it takes maybe 4 hours a character if you know the path to follow.

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Reply #84 on: November 20, 2014, 12:35:36 PM

Not really my point.

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Reply #85 on: November 20, 2014, 12:37:52 PM

We understand you in the other thread.

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kaid
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Reply #86 on: November 21, 2014, 03:17:40 PM

Yeah, except once you get hooked on the follower mini-game, that just won't happen.  At all.

Also, what I meant by learning the lesson is that you have to do this shit on all your alts again and again and again and I suspect it stops being fun after....the first one.

Guildy has 6 Garrisons all at level 2.  I'm just forehead smackingly nonplussed.

Also, tradeskills got raped to the point you're better of not having them.  That's some meta level shit right there.  I literally can't see the point of having any gathering skills at all now, just alts with different buildings, all feeding each other.  I think it's crazy shoes.



Herbs have been selling pretty good but I expect that to crash a bit as more people get high enough to unlock the garden but at least there are sinks to devour it from inscriptionists and alchemists. Ore has no sink you simply can't make anything fast enough to eat through the vast mounds of ore even a tier 2 mine can generate. I have engineering and blacksmithing and no harvesting skill and one mine is more than sufficient to keep work orders on both fully topped off every day. You are so limited by the mass quantities of the time gated stuff needed to actually make items that ore is never going to be a limiting factor.
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Reply #87 on: November 21, 2014, 03:56:18 PM

Off topic a bit: are they doing anything for the 10th anniversary, anyone know?  I haven't seen anything on this.  I'm torn between not giving a fuck about the storyline this expansion and thinking some of the content looks pretty neat.  Current plan is to give it a shot once the price comes down, but if there's something going on for the birthday, would it be worth it to pay for a month just to log in and check my mail or whatever (maybe see if Pandaria was any good, since I haven't touched that one either)?
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Reply #88 on: November 21, 2014, 04:09:24 PM

The 10th anniversary is a lvl 100 MC raid and a 40v40 TM/SS BG.

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Reply #89 on: November 22, 2014, 06:06:50 AM

Off topic a bit: are they doing anything for the 10th anniversary, anyone know?  I haven't seen anything on this.  I'm torn between not giving a fuck about the storyline this expansion and thinking some of the content looks pretty neat.  Current plan is to give it a shot once the price comes down, but if there's something going on for the birthday, would it be worth it to pay for a month just to log in and check my mail or whatever (maybe see if Pandaria was any good, since I haven't touched that one either)?

Simply logging in on the anniversary gets you a Molten Corgie pet.
Then there is the level 100 only 40 man Molten Core raid.  Guaranteed drop of a High Ilevel Hat and a Core Hound Mount, with a lower chance drop of a Battle Pet and a Weapon Enchant X-Mog effect.  Expect it to be fairly long and punishing, since word has it it is a fairly proper scale up of the ENTIRE molten core raid for 40 man raidfinder difficulty (eat that nostalgia nuts).

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Reply #90 on: November 22, 2014, 07:40:54 AM

Simply logging in on the anniversary gets you a Molten Corgie pet.
Then there is the level 100 only 40 man Molten Core raid.  Guaranteed drop of a High Ilevel Hat and a Core Hound Mount, with a lower chance drop of a Battle Pet and a Weapon Enchant X-Mog effect.  Expect it to be fairly long and punishing, since word has it it is a fairly proper scale up of the ENTIRE molten core raid for 40 man raidfinder difficulty (eat that nostalgia nuts).

Ooooho.  That's hilarious and explains all the bitching I've seen about multiple wipe groups that can't get past trash.  The entrance to MC was always a wipe-fest until you figured out the mob types. MC Trash had some of the biggest BS effects I've ever seen and was difficult to get 40 raiders to do it right when starting.  I can't imagine 40 LFR folks who have always breezed through content.

Annihilator: Hug It. Otherwise it dashes and does big damage.
Surger: Spread out, it does an AOE that will do big damage.

The bosses aren't any more difficult than raid bosses, but the trash is just so tiring. Plus there's areas that it respawns quick so you have to kill a group, then run, then kill and run.

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Reply #91 on: November 22, 2014, 08:04:45 AM

Relighting core pup trash always produced some of our more lol-worthy wipes.

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Reply #92 on: November 22, 2014, 08:16:39 AM

Ooh I forgot about those.  Yeah, any mechanic that is "all things must die at the same time" has a huge problem in LFR until there's enough overpowered DPS that can just beat it all down. 

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Reply #93 on: November 22, 2014, 08:46:37 AM

I did LFR MC yesterday. In one word:  why so serious?. In two words:  awesome, for real ACK!. I did finish it and get my hat / mount (and cosmetic fire enchant thing), but it was a bit rough at times. Still, as the raid went on, it did get a bit more cohesive... also, people eventually stopped facepulling / DPSing wrong targets / standing in fire.

All the mechanics are in place -- I think the only changes are a smaller aggro radius for golemagg and geddon's ignite mana taking away only 200 per tick. Some of those debuff-heavy fights are pure nightmare fuel for healers.. if none of the DPS are decursing, expect healers to run oom ~30 sec into Lucifron, for example. The Geddon kill was amazing, with 1 tank, 2 healers and 1 single dps still alive by the end (inferno is as lethal as ever) and everyone super low on health/mana. In general, bosses fall over pretty quickly compared to my vanilla MC memories... but wipes are still possible to shit like Shazzrah's aoe if nobody is decursing/dispelling.

The most ~fun~ comes from the trash, however. Core hound packs, those fireguards that AOE stun the raid, surgers knocking people into the lava, etc etc. Trash still respawns, too, with the same rules as vanilla MC. Good times.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 08:49:32 AM by Zetor »

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Reply #94 on: November 24, 2014, 10:44:25 AM

Simply logging in on the anniversary gets you a Molten Corgie pet.
Then there is the level 100 only 40 man Molten Core raid.  Guaranteed drop of a High Ilevel Hat and a Core Hound Mount, with a lower chance drop of a Battle Pet and a Weapon Enchant X-Mog effect.  Expect it to be fairly long and punishing, since word has it it is a fairly proper scale up of the ENTIRE molten core raid for 40 man raidfinder difficulty (eat that nostalgia nuts).

Ooooho.  That's hilarious and explains all the bitching I've seen about multiple wipe groups that can't get past trash.  The entrance to MC was always a wipe-fest until you figured out the mob types. MC Trash had some of the biggest BS effects I've ever seen and was difficult to get 40 raiders to do it right when starting.  I can't imagine 40 LFR folks who have always breezed through content.

Annihilator: Hug It. Otherwise it dashes and does big damage.
Surger: Spread out, it does an AOE that will do big damage.

The bosses aren't any more difficult than raid bosses, but the trash is just so tiring. Plus there's areas that it respawns quick so you have to kill a group, then run, then kill and run.

The stupid curse that gets applied to the entire raid gets old fast. With the changes of having an 8 second cool down after removing a curse it takes freaking forever to cleanse a raid. The rewards are worth it but its a good demonstration of why they don't make raids like this any more the trash in MC is was and always has been stupidly thick.
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Reply #95 on: November 25, 2014, 11:34:30 AM

They managed to rope me back in after 5 years of not playing (left half-way during WotLK) and I guess they managed to get many other people as well..
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Reply #96 on: November 25, 2014, 11:58:22 AM

Welll after enough begging and nagging, Blizzard upgrading my account to MoP and giving me a free month they've somehow managed to rope me back into this game. (like I already said in my previous post, I've stopped playing half-way through WotLK). So I restarted my sub when Patch 6.0 hit.

First thing I did was to check on my my Level 70 Undead Mage and the Level 80 Draenor Priest and realized that I had forgotten everything about how to play that game over the last five years  Grin. Mage was still in Shattrath and the Priest was sitting in Dalaran and for the first half-hour or so I couldn't even remember where the fuck those cities are and what their name was. I was also checking for the portal spells my mage had until I realized I must have lost all of them during a respec while my account was inactive.

Blizzard reimbursed my Priest for all of the pointless marks and sigils he collected during WotLK so he started off with nearly 1000 gold which I thought was nice until I hit the AH and saw actual prices. At that point I thought to myself "screw it", decided to level a new toon for the chance to experience all of the changes they did with cata and MoP and went full Kung Fu Panda.

I'm now at Level 83, averaging about one level per hour of gameplay without heirlooms or account bound items and quite like it so far. Biggest surprise was just how streamlined the game's levelling experience has become. It's also nice just how many convenience features got added over the years and the re-imagining of the old classic zones was also in my opinion very well executed.

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Reply #97 on: November 25, 2014, 03:17:16 PM

The prices on the AH look scary I was pretty broke character wise when I started back up again but you make a ton of cash just doing the quests. I have spent like 10k on my garrison so far and still have more money than I started the expansion with and that was before last night. Right now if you get up in level and managed to pick up a good BOE drop from a mob you can sell them on the AH for frighteningly high numbers.

I started the expansion with about 1k gold in the bank. I sold a BOE purple shield last night for 120k gold it sold in under an hour. I am not one to play the AH much but really I would not worry to much about AH prices because it works for you as much as against you.
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Reply #98 on: November 25, 2014, 03:23:23 PM

So I can count on my previous moneymaking activity of selling ore/ingots/gems to be totally fucked then?

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Reply #99 on: November 25, 2014, 03:24:53 PM

Ore is totally fucked. Everyone gets so much from their garrison that the prices are extremely low. That was my normal money maker on my main. I've gotten to the point that I think I might just drop mining and find something else. It seems to me that BoEs don't seem to sell. Unless maybe I am getting the wrong ones.
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Reply #100 on: November 25, 2014, 03:33:11 PM

Yes max level ore is fucked. It is almost effectively infinite because even with blacksmithing AND engineering work orders I simply cannot use it fast enough due to most things being super time gated.

But there is tons of cash to be made on stuff if you watch the AH a bit and figure out what they are bing. Also mining is not useless you can still make a crapload of cash going lower tier stuff especially pandaria for trillium as people still are cranking away at their sky golems.
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Reply #101 on: November 25, 2014, 07:58:01 PM

Okay, that's not so bad then. I always made the most on stuff like Thorium, Obsidium, etc. Stuff that's too high for people who haven't kept up mining to get and old enough that almost no one else bothers to mine it any more. Every expansion I always made a killing with copper, tin, iron at the start too. Though if the crafting trades suck now people probably aren't starting them up. Also, they suck for taking away the stat bonus for mining.

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Reply #102 on: November 26, 2014, 02:01:33 AM

It's worse than that.  If I was starting an Alt, I'd leave tradeskills until I hit THE PAST and start there.  You can do everything at level 1.

I think your market is humped mate.

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Reply #103 on: November 26, 2014, 03:55:21 AM

I should probably have checked what garrissons actually do before I decided to level herbalism and alchemy on my new toon.

A few more impressions from me:

I've used the boost WoD gave you to boost my undead mage to 90. It's the first character I played and it was my main from the EU open beta until WotLK. It's also the character with the most time played (86 days, yes I checked) and the one I did most of my raiding with when I was still interested in such things. Went through all of the 40 man raids on that char.

I like the collections function. Access to all of the mounts I own, all of my pets and toys without messing up my bank slots is nice. Made me rediiscover a lot of mounts and pets I collected over the years that I had no idea I own. Even a few rare ones like the PVP bear mount and the bronze Drake from Culling of Stratholme Heroic. Pity though that the Ahn Quiraij mounts still only work in the zone.

I like that they've integrated a lot of functions in the main UI that you had to use add-ons for. You can now actually play the game without resorting to add-ins (cue people telling me that no you actually still need add-ons for stuff ;)). Keeping current on all of the add-ons I used in WotLK raiding (classic was even worse. One word "decursive") was annoying and it's good to have a lot of that functionality moved to the default UI. It's still wasting too much of my screen real estate though.

They should give you the option to unlock alll of the flight masters for a zone or add-on at some point. They do for boosted characters anyway.

Questing has gotten much tighter. You no longer run out of quest options and need to grind (Barrens classic was the prime example but even in BC you had a lot of dead time because you ran out of quests during playing). Some of that is surely because they rebalanced the zones after a new expansion has come out but running a new horde toon was always a bitch between 10 - 40 even in Wrath and it's nice that you now can max-level your toon just by questing. I laos like that they added a lot more variety to the quests. It#s still a lot of "kill ten monsters" or "collect twenty monkey farts" but even those got a bit more varied and they've added a lot of different quests as well.

I also like that they re-did most of the group and elite quests in old zones so you can now do them solo. It was always annoying when you levelled an alt and realized that you can't do half of the quests because you won't find a group.

Stat squish is nice because even late during WotLK the numbers had gotten ridiculous, I can't even imagine what it must have been like in MoP. I don't like that they didn't streamline the skills as well. My monk has now exhausted all of the additional action bar slots with skills I'll never ever use, probably not even during dungeons or raids. It's basically always been like that but since they always add additional stuff when a new add-on and level cap is released it has gotten ridiculous.

I don't like the way talents work. I like that they removed a lot of the gruff and trimmed the waste from the original talents but they added to many new spells and skills. Talents should be mostly passive effects in my opinion except for maybe one or two really interesting skills that only certain builds have access to. make the core abilities interesting instead of giving me dozens of skills. Use passive effects to boost the core abilities instead.

They also should have scrapped glyphs. I never liked the concept or the execution and it's basically the same pointless mechanic as when they first introduced it. Glyphs basically only serve as a justifcation for inscription anyway.
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Reply #104 on: November 26, 2014, 04:25:20 AM

I like the way newer zones work. Icecrown was always the prime example of how zoning and quest chains should work and they perfected it in Cataclysm and MoP. I also like that zones are bigger and that Blizzard no longer treats zones like a Russian prison cramming hostile mobs into every nook and cranny until amnesty international shows up and wites a letter of complaint.

BC zones were really bad in that respect. Blizzard just crammed too much hostile stuff into every square metre of real estate. You now actually have certain parts of zones without mobs and quests that take that into account. Especially in a zone like Vash'j that has such an interesting concept it's a nice change that zones now actually resemble sort of a fantasy themed countryside and are not just mob spawns.

I don't like the Cata zones very much apart from the technicalities though. For one because they are rather buggy. I've only encountered three or four bugged out quests so far and all have been in Cataclysm zones. The zoning and starting quest chain for Vash'j bugged out at two points for me, which is ridiculous for a 5 year old series of quests and since a quest event didn't trigger at both instances I basically got stuck an event that I couldn't finish.

All of the zones I've visited so far are also too similar to existing content to be really interesting. Vash'j at least has an interesting concept but is still Aszhara underwater. Deepholm is just a bland cave full of recycled mobs and elementals and huge downtimes between quests because you have to cover so much ground on your mount. Hyial doesn't resemble the Warcraft 3 map in any way and is just more fire and drakes. I also don't like the way they hand-hold you during questing. You basically don't have any options or any chance to discover something on your own. New quest hubs only become accessible once you finished all major quests at the old hub. Even flight masters only unlock once the game decides that you are allowed to go there. I guess some of that comes from zoning and how it works and they probably also want you to not miss a thing but to me it's too hand-holdy.

Don't get me started on the casual borderline racism and stereotypical 'pseudo-eastern' vibe of the Pandaria Zones. Having all Dwarves talk like Scotsmen and all TRolls like some sort of Jamaican Rastafarian is bad enough but Pandaria actually managed to top that with that weird amalgamation of eastern romanticism, wuxia, dragons and pandas.
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