O Captain, my captain

[Khaldun]

More tears than normal watching Dead Poets Society last night.

[Surlyboi]

Death to Smoochy didn't make me laugh as much as it usually does.

[Khaldun]

We've been watching a number of his movies. I've always noticed this but it really screams through now: in any dramatic performance, even with funny parts, he richochets from manic stand-up improv to palpable sadness and melancholy, usually with a bit of anger intervening between the two. With actors whose lives eventually implode in some fashion, their careers in retrospect sometimes look like a lengthy public revelation of a private life. He's really intensely so. Look at him in Good Morning Vietnam after he gets suspended--withdrawn, despairing, unreachable until he's trapped in a situation where he more or less has to trip back into the manic, extroverted persona.

[Kitsune]

Speaking as another person in the "fucked up childhood leads to a very black sense of humor" club, it's never a surprise to me when a comedian goes out like that.  Humor's a coping mechanism born in a very bad place, and the better at it someone is, the more fucked up they inevitably are.  I can't think of a single great comedian who lived a long life and died naturally.  They either punch out early on drugs or suicide, or wear their bodies out because they just don't give a fuck about a future of being a broken-down has-been and live wholly for the moment.  It's just how it is.  Happy contentment isn't funny and doesn't make people funny.  But when you look around at the ruin of your life and all you can do is laugh about it?  A comedian is born.

Both the Cracked article and David Simon were spot-on.  Funny's the mask over a very unhappy person.  Some have their stuff together better than others and make it further than people like Mitch Hedberg or Andy Kaufman, but it's not exactly a secret among comedians about how their life cycle is likely going to play out.

[Teleku]

George Burns.

 

[Merusk]

Bob Hope, George Carlin, Red Buttons, Bob Newhart.

Lots of comedians use it as a coping mechanism, most of those popular with the ever-cynical Gen X and younger generations for certain, but not all.   We get the comedians we deserve?

[01101010]

George Burns.

 

And Robin's mentor, Jonathan Winters. But funny men that push the envelope? It seems they tend to go out much fast - brighter and faster the star and all that.

[Johny Cee]

Speaking as another person in the "fucked up childhood leads to a very black sense of humor" club, it's never a surprise to me when a comedian goes out like that.  Humor's a coping mechanism born in a very bad place, and the better at it someone is, the more fucked up they inevitably are.  I can't think of a single great comedian who lived a long life and died naturally.  They either punch out early on drugs or suicide, or wear their bodies out because they just don't give a fuck about a future of being a broken-down has-been and live wholly for the moment.  It's just how it is.  Happy contentment isn't funny and doesn't make people funny.  But when you look around at the ruin of your life and all you can do is laugh about it?  A comedian is born.

There are plenty of great comedians that live to ripe old ages.  Really, you get to the point where you have money and acclaim, and many choose to work on their demons.  In some cases, it might be good comedy they have to exorcise as the mental states that lead to genius are what is slowly eating them away. 

Sometimes they only have a limited time of being on top of their game?  Sure.  But that's the same for nearly any popular or artistic pursuit;  eventually you age out of being relevant or you don't "get" what comedy is about anymore. 

The people that don't burn up in a blaze of glory generally get completely underrated or marginalized in later life as their life experiences age them out, and their formerly groundbreaking shit is now SOP.  See "Seinfeld is unfunny" on TVtropes.


A big part of it is we the audience tend to overemphasize the genius of our tragic heroes.  Nirvana is the greatest band of the last 30 years because Kurt Cobain went out at his peak, rather than recording 5 to 10 more decent to pretty good albums.  John Belushi is a comic master because he didn't hang around long enough to become a shell of himself like Dan Aykroyd or Chevy Chase.  Compare how John Lennon is thought of versus Paul McCartney.

[Baldrake]

Good points.

And yet, Bill Murray did his best work in his later years. (Lost in Translation, Broken Flowers, ...)

[Lakov_Sanite]

It may be a special case because I think Murray's style of smug fits much so better with an older gent. 

[Yegolev]

Murray in Stripes is somehow not quite the same as Murray in Groundhog Day, or later.  He seems to be sneakier with his snark as he ages.

[Johny Cee]

Good points.

And yet, Bill Murray did his best work in his later years. (Lost in Translation, Broken Flowers, ...)

I thought of Bill Murray when I was writing that.  He was doing good work for years, with a couple of renaissances.  His early comedy stuff, Ghostbusters, Groundhog Day, What about Bob, Rushmore and then his later more serious stuff with Lost in Translation on.  Part of it is definitely that he made the switch from comedy to drama (with some comedy).  He's certainly done his most critically acclaimed stuff in recent years, but his best work?  He was an amazingly funny guy who created some all-time great comedy moments in the '80s.  Just for me, Ghostbusters and Caddyshack are in the highlight reel of my childhood.  He didn't win any awards for it, but fuck me if that wasn't career defining stuff.

Some people just have longer shelf lives.  Some people don't come into their own until later in life (Jon Stewart?).  Some are able to switch up what they do (Denis Leary from comic accused of stealing Bill Hicks act to Emmy winning actor/producer or Tom Hanks from star of Big, Dragnet and Bosom Buddies to acclaimed dramatic actor.)

[Paelos]

Seinfeld?

[Johny Cee]

Seinfeld?

Seinfeld is Unfunny

[Ironwood]

Does it count if you watched Seinfeld from the start and always found it unfunny ?

[MahrinSkel]

Seinfeld?

Seinfeld is Unfunny

Don't we have a rule against linking TVTropes?  If we don't, shouldn't we?

--Dave (That's another hour of my life I can't get back)

[Lantyssa]

Does it count if you watched Seinfeld from the start and always found it unfunny ?

I can't say since I never watched it because I found it unfunny to begin with.

[Paelos]

Ugh, we're doing this. Y'all are being lame.

[tazelbain]

These pretzels are making me thirsty

[Yegolev]

Does it count if you watched Seinfeld from the start and always found it unfunny ?

The general principle would probably apply to situations where the reaction was negative.

[Rendakor]

I thought Seinfeld was just okay, but I'm a little young for it. The season finale happened when I was in like, 8th grade, and there isn't much there for an angsty teen to relate to. Since then I've seen reruns here and there, but don't like sitcoms enough to attempt a marathon.

[schild]

Does it count if you watched Seinfeld from the start and always found it unfunny ?

No, but that makes you a liar.



Edit: I should say - it's POSSIBLE someone doesn't like Seinfeld. That's a thing that is not complete fantasy. However, that is not a problem with Seinfeld but a problem with the person. There are things are are objectively unfunny - like Carrot Top. The people that like him are wrong to like him. But finding Seinfeld unfunny isn't a case of Seinfeld being unfunny. It's a sign your mechanism for humor is fucked up.

[schild]

Also, I want to say I waited for this thread to derail itself before posting, as I'd done enough damage already. It took a LOT of willpower not to respond to Johnny Cee with "Seinfeld says otherwise."

[Sir T]

Not a single person I knew when it was on actually liked Sienfield, me included. Maybe it was some kind of European thing, or it was some kind of humour that only applied to Americans, but everyone around here basically hated it or at least found it totally unfunny.

[schild]

Not a single person I knew when it was on actually liked Sienfield, me included. Maybe it was some kind of European thing, or it was some kind of humour that only applied to Americans, but everyone around here basically hated it or at least found it totally unfunny.

I can't speak for everyone, but I feel like it's pretty common knowledge that your mechanism for funny has some shorts in the wiring.

Basically, your post doesn't surprise me at all. It's kind of like saying "sand is sandy."

[Ironwood]

Also, I want to say I waited for this thread to derail itself before posting, as I'd done enough damage already. It took a LOT of willpower not to respond to Johnny Cee with "Seinfeld says otherwise."

Aye, I didn't want to derail with the reply to Khaldun about an Actor Acting, but hey ho.

Derailing a sad thread is part of healing.  All I'll say further on this matter is 'Jewish New York Bloke and Friends' didn't really translate that well for me.  Possibly cultural, but every single episode of Seinfeld I watched I just sat there as the credits rolled, unamused with a 'and ?' look on my face.  I would imagine that there are probably people in other countries who react the same way to Connollys material, or, to try and be relevant, Kevin Bridges.  It was the same with Curb your Enthusiasm, so I suspect it was the writing or something.  Who knows.

And those who are having a hard time with Williams films, for the love of God, don't watch Fisher King again.   Just don't.

[Cyrrex]

And those who are having a hard time with Williams films, for the love of God, don't watch Fisher King again.   Just don't.

Yeah, I've actually been trying to figure out if I dare.  I really want to, I remember thinking he was brilliant in that movie.  Haven't seen it since it came out, I think.

The other one that destroyed me was "Jack".  Not considered in the pantheon of great Robin Williams movies, but I'm pretty sure it made me bawl for some reason.  Sketchy on the details.

Fast Edit:  For the record, I am a giant sap.  Mrs. Doubtfire the other day almost brought me to tears and made me feel barfy.

[Numtini]

I've watched two or three Seinfeld episodes at friends house. They're fine and amusing, but I'm afraid I don't get the hype.

[Miasma]

I loved the series but I've found is hasn't aged well for some reason, I have all of them on dvd but don't rewatch them very often.  I can rewatch other series over and over again though.

I've found most people who didn't like Seinfeld couldn't get past the idea that the characters weren't likable, which is reasonable I guess.  The show got funnier as it progressed but the characters got even more unlikable so it never won those people over.

[Yegolev]

There are cultural elements in relation to Seinfeld, I'm sure.  There are British comedic things which I don't want to admit that I find terribly unfunny - or at least not so funny that it deserved to run that long - and risk having people waste time telling me that I'm wrong.

I'm less of a Curb Your Enthusiasm fan than Seinfeld due to the lack of balance.  You have to really like "Larry David embarrasses himself" humor since there isn't (last I watched) much else going on in the show.  Seinfeld balances that humor with a cast of wacky characters, and so offers more variety.

I expect that the main thing to take away from the Seinfeld discussion is that it is now embedded in culture to a degree such that it is valuable to have a knowledge of the show so that you can participate in some discussions.  If only to get the references that people make, nevermind the influence on later television.

I loved the series but I've found is hasn't aged well for some reason

To what degree would you attribute the Seinfeld Is Unfunny trope to this?

[Malakili]

I dunno, I can watch Seinfeld all day every day and still find it funny.

[Riggswolfe]

Add me to the list of people who was meh on Seinfeld. It was the type of show I might watch briefly if it was on a rerun but I generally got bored and looked for other shows on before the episode finished. That's not to say there weren't things that made me snicker when I'd catch it but overall the show felt...smug and I just never got into it. I don't hate it by any means but I never got the love for it either. I've seen maybe 10 total episodes and don't feel like I've missed much.

[Yegolev]

There is filler in Seinfeld, and the first season or two is MEH.  At some point you get to Frank Costanza and it's awesome.

[Lantyssa]

Yet I found Robin Williams funny all the time, without the need for filler.

[Nebu]

Yet I found Robin Williams funny all the time, without the need for filler.

I liked him much more for his acting/dramatic work.  His comedy routine saturated my brain pretty quickly.  Way too hyper.