FIFA World Cup 2014 (Brazil) SPOILERS: Read at own risk

[schild]

Schadenfreude Cup

[IainC]

[Paelos]

Welp, I wanted Germany to advance. Soooooo there's that. 

[Megrim]

 

[Tale]

German scorers needed a scroll bar.

[Chimpy]

They had to scroll even with two of the scorers hitting twice.

[Khaldun]

So we were at an important event during the game and I recorded the game. We were good, avoided all social media and other spoilers, got home and I said, "let's fast-foward to the first goal or the first 20 minutes, whichever is first." So we do. Then we're like, "ok, game on!" I watch the goal and the replay and I'm like, that doesn't look good.

And then. And then. And then. And THEN.

Wow.

The worst side in this entire World Cup didn't look that bad. I'd accuse the Brazilians of giving up except that I think a good team could give up more subtly than that. That made the most overmatched moments in any of the rest of the tournament look even. That is not in any way about not having all your players in the game, that's something way way way worse.

[HaemishM]

But you know who is not great?  Fred.  I don't know why the keep playing that douche.  I mention it only because of that sorry ass finish he just made.

What a fucking atrocity. Seriously, there were Jews in Germany at half time going, "Never again."

I knew after the 2nd game in the tourney, Fred was an utter waste of space. Brazil had been coasting on Neymar's talent, Thiago Silva's defensive know-how and set pieces and holy shit did they get exposed. I mean, even in the absence of Neymar, why not put Hulk in the center and just start lofting balls into the box at him? He didn't do shit playing out wide and Fred missed more goals than Germany scored (HEYYO!). The rest of the crew just ran around fouling the fuck out of everything with legs. After the 2nd goal went in, what the fuck was the Brazilian defense doing? I mean there were 2 or 3 goals where the ball just got passed around the box by 3 different German players before the one that was most open slots home an easy finish. I've seen FA Cup matches between Premier League and Conference teams that were less lopsided.

Scolari needs to be shipped out the country in secret before some crazy fucker shoots his ass. That was appalling.

[rk47]

Meanwhile in Singapore

[Shannow]

http://isbrazilonfireyet.com/

I think they need to update...

[Ingmar]

http://isbrazilonfireyet.com/

I think they need to update...

Most of the videos and pictures of riot-type stuff in Brazil people are sharing around are not actually from today. Not seeing anything about riots on any real news sites.

[Abagadro]

My guess is a close heartbreaking loss or controversial loss would have led to rioting. I think a loss like that probably just leads to depression and drinking in sadness.

[IainC]

WWE commentator 'JR' Jim Ross calls the goals.

[Jeff Kelly]

I still can't quite believe yesterday's game really happened. I'll have to rewatch it this evening to take in the finer points of the match probably. As far as Brazil is concerned I hope that this loss will give them the will to change things up and work on the problems the Brazillian football faces/faced even before the half final. As Germany had to.

Regardless of us winning or losing on Sunday, this kind of performance has been 24 years in the making and needed us to completely rethink and redesign our approach to football on all levels of competition from 1st division all the way down to the lowest.

After the 1990 World Cup win Franz Beckenbauer gave a now infamous quote: "With that kind of talent available and with the influx of talent from the new east german states, the German team will be undefeatable for years to come" (paraphrased). It was an arrogant quote and he also didn't take into account the realities of German football at the time. The reality was that the Cup winning team was already quite old. Also many players of that team, as well as the team manager outright resigned from the national team after the final as to not damage their own legacy. Even just two years later at the Euros most of the players that won the World Cup were already retired. The realities of the German national leagues at the time - lots of income from TV rights, ticket sales and merchandising - also meant that teams would rather buy star players from all over the world than to groom and invest in young domestic players.

Germany was in fact behind the curve on almost all aspects of football. Training standards, tactics, how to bring up and develop the skills of young players, club setup and management etc. The teams were also reluctant to change since their approach worked even though it meant that there was a much smaller pool of German talent to choose from. See the current situation in England for reference. It took the German national association more than twenty years to turn things around and it had to do so against heavy opposition from our own teams.

As late as 2006 Klinsmann critizised German players for not being fit enough when compared to players of other national teams and to not be as savvy tactically. He devised fitness tests to weed out weak players and he focused much of the national team training on improving general fitness and to get the tactics up to snuff. He got huge flak from the German team managers which saw it as an insult to them. The loss against Italy was almost a turning point because Italy won with an 'old school approach' to the game and the main critique at that time was why Klinsmann wanted to change the 'German way' of playing so desperately when it obviously could still work to win a Cup.

Only when the big teams like Schalke, Bayern and Dortmund started to really get their head into the type of play Klinsmann and Löw were promoting and saw that it worked did things change dramatically. They basically had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

[Jeff Kelly]

So what did change?

The probably two biggest changes were

1. The German FA made it a requirement for every first and second league club to run its own football academy and to invest a certain percentage of their earnings into training and educating young German players. Without such a training academy a club would not get a license for the second and first league and wouldn't be able to compete.

Almost all of the players on the current roster: Lahm, Müller, Kroos, Schweinsteiger, Badstuber, Özil etc. come from one of those football academies. Bayern and Dortmund have been especially successful with this model and it has also saved them millions on transfer market money and even brought money into their clubs when a home-grown talent eventually did transfer to another club

2. The German FA completely changed the way licensing and education of prospective team managers and trainers worked. The curriculum was heavily updated, extended and revamped, a lot of talent was brought in from all over the world to consult with and give advice to the German FA.

Many of the younger crop of trainers and managers: Klopp, Löw, Klinsmann, Tuchel, Rangnick as well as their support staff have been educated and trained under this new curriculum and had the opportunity to bring that knowledge into the national league. They usually started managing smaller teams (Klopp started out at Mainz for example) and improved their teams game to such an extend that they suddenly could compete with the big powerhouses like Bayern.

It still took two decades though for those measures to have an effect and for the teams to rethink their approach and to accept that the updated way might not just work but be better.

[Amarr HM]

A lot of it has to do with Scolari getting his tactics completely wrong. For a start he continued to play Fred, Hulk and others who were having a miserable tournament. He didn't have great options off the bench leaving behind form players like Coutinho, Filipe Luis and not taking a chance on experienced talent like Ronaldinho, Robinho and Kaka, I think also Pato could have offered something different in attack. In the end his options coming off the bench were limited, the one player who deserved a starting place,Hernanes one of the only technically gifted midfielders in the squad. That was not a vintage Brazil team, but we knew that from the Colombia game, the fact they were beaten so badly is surprising.

On the flipside Low could not have gotten his tactics better, against Algeria Germany looked frail at the back without Lahm the best right back in the world playing an advanced role. Moving him back stabilised the German defense, Khedira coming in his place looked hungry and fresh, Muller moving out to his natural right wing position cutting in, looked more threatening and then Kloses intelligent movement up front allowed the midfield players to link up around the box. Against an absolutely dreadful defense, can't believe PSG paid that much for Luiz. Myself and a Chelsea supporting friend were both laughing about it recently and now it looks like an awful transfer.

Have to agree with you Jeff the way Germany have nurtured their talent and the players they have coming through the ranks are technically gifted and mentally strong like you would expect from German players anyway.

[Brofellos]

http://sadbrazilians.tumblr.com/

Fav pic;

"we killed all those kids in the slums for THIS?!"

[HaemishM]

Against an absolutely dreadful defense, can't believe PSG paid that much for Luiz. Myself and a Chelsea supporting friend were both laughing about it recently and now it looks like an awful transfer.

I find it hilarious not only that PSG paid so much for him, and did so after seeing Mourinho play him in the midfield more than defense. I always though Luiz was a better holding/box-to-box midfielder than a central defender.  He wants to go forward too much and is too undisciplined for tackling and marking in the box. And you saw what he did on set pieces.

England is in a lot worse shape than Brazil is, IMO. Premier League teams let English players languish on the bench then spend BILLIONS bringing in big-name foreign talent. Hell, you don't have to look further than guys like Daniel Sturridge, James Milner, Jack Rodwell, Ross Barkley, Scott Sinclair, Ryan Bertrand, Wilfred Zaha, or Victor Moses to see that. All of those guys have talent, get bought by big clubs who sit them on the bench while big-money transfers start over them. Now, not all of those names are star caliber - I mention them because they have obvious talent that needs nurturing and needs games. Of those two, only Barkley is really getting any time in the starting 11 at their first club and that's as much because of Everton's low transfer budget and Roberto Martinez's ability to spot a player. Sturridge had to go through 3 transfers to find a team that would play him regularly and he exploded. Bertrand is about to go out on loan AGAIN to a lesser league. Zaha and Moses would have done better staying at Wigan and Palace than moving to big clubs where they can't get games.

[Hoax]

Yeah blame the Premier League again England. That always goes well. Better keep Hodgson. 

[Cyrrex]

Jeff - I am sure you are right about the recent history of German football, but you make it sound like it was some dramatic turnaround.  All that has happened is that Germany has gone from being an outstanding football nation to being a slightly more outstanding football nation.  In fact, unless and until Germany wins the final in this tournament, this is absolutely par for the course for Germany.  What I am saying is that they so far haven't really accomplished anything that they haven't pretty much been doing over the past few decades.

You are looking at this throught the critical lens of a native.  To the rest of us, this looks a lot like the same old Germany that beats the shit out of everyone.  They had a "dry spell" in the 90s, where I think in 94 and 98 they only made the top 8 or something (woe and agony!) instead of their usual position within the top 4.  Germany has basically been a football powerhouse my entire lifetime.  This only looks like a turnaround if your expectations are unrealistically high.

The same could be said for Brazil.  This is yet another top four finish for the other team in the world that always kicks ass.  We are nitpicking a team that still tends to win almost all the time.  It's easy and fun to nitpick when they get stomped like they just did, but the truth of the matter is that they are still one of the best teams in the world.

[Sir T]

The talking heads on Irish TV last night were kind of saying something similar after the game. Basicly they were pointing out that Brazil has no domestic league. That's partially because its largely too freaking dangerous to have kids on a street kicking a ball around in Brazil these days. Every member of that team is off around the world playing for foreign clubs. That means there's no home grown environment to nurture people who what to play the game.

England as Haemish said are in the other end of the problem. They have "local teams" filled with highly paid Foreigners and there's no reason or desire to help locally grown talent, nor is there anyone for inglish kids to look up to and decide their want to invest their time in playing soccer, and even if they do their no investment in the kids leagues as the money is all going into big name salaries. Its the whole problem of capitalist sport. Everyone wants someone else to invest in growing talent, they just want to rob it when its developed.. No-one wants to pay for growing that talent themselves, as 20 years down the line someone else benefits. Ireland and Scotland have No national league either, anyone who is any good fucks off to England.

The other thing is the phenomenon of Overcoaching. Guys are brought in, have the innovation hammered out of them and then told to play this way or not at all by their clubs and coaches. Then they are jammed together in another team and they don't know how to play any different to how they have been told to play in their home team anymore, and they cant think on their feet on the pitch.

So the game gets less technical and much more physical.

And FIFA are doing jack all about it.

[HaemishM]

Yeah blame the Premier League again England. That always goes well. Better keep Hodgson. 

Hodgson wasn't the only reason England lost but he was a good portion of it. Playing guys like Rooney and Welbeck in wide areas rather than up top or in the middle, bringing a back 4 that can't defend its way out of a paper bag, etc. England's best home-grown products have come out Liverpool and Southampton's academies in the last decade (Sterling, Lallana, Bale, Oxlade-Chamberlain) or out of teams not in the big 4 (Barkley, Jordan Henderson, Zaha).

[Abagadro]

How much influence has Pep had considering the core of the team is Bayern? That guy seems like a wizard.

[HaemishM]

How much influence has Pep had considering the core of the team is Bayern? That guy seems like a wizard.

Less than you probably think, IMO. He's certainly helped some players be better, but he's the one who decided Lahm should be playing midfield instead of right back.

I'm not sold on Pep's wizardry. He won a shitton at Barca with a collection of some of the best players in the world, and left before age really hit many of those players (see Barca this past year). Bayern also has most of the best talent in the Bundesliga, even before he got there. All the teams in the league that had great players and challenged Bayern over the last few years? Bayern just bought their best talent and rumbled onwards. Goetze, Klose, Podolski, now Lewandowski - Bayern has bought them at their height of form and mixed them in with great foreign talent and home grown guys like Mueller, Schweinsteiger and Lahm to dominate the league. He won the Bundesliga by March but couldn't get his players up enough to beat Real Madrid.

[Nebu]

Not sure any of you saw this, but I thought it was pretty cool. 

One goal, Three perspectives

It is 3 different looks at the goal Germany scored against the US.  I can see why Howard thought his positioning was good... and proof that Muller is a beast.

[Cyrrex]

I'm no expert, but that looked like a probable concussion for Mascherano.  30 seconds later, he is back on the field.

[Cyrrex]

Pretty low key first half.  One good chance for Argentina on a Messi free kick, but the goalie was all over it.  Aregentina looks a bit more dangerous at this point.  Not sure Holland even got off a true shot on goal.  This doesn't bode well for the second half, as both teams might feel reluctant about opening up.  It would be a shame to see two fun teams like these suffocate each other and play a boring game, but that's what it is looking like.  Smells like penalty kicks.  Hope I am wrong.

[Chimpy]

I'm no expert, but that looked like a probable concussion for Mascherano.  30 seconds later, he is back on the field.

Yeah that disoriented wander then fall down thing is classic concussion symptoms.

[Sir T]

Yeah. I'm no expert but I'm seeing them heading into extra time from this. Bit of a snoozer for me to be honest.

[Cyrrex]

After 70 minutes, there has still just been 1 shot on goal.  Jesus fucking christ this is a snoozer.  I am not going to watch 30 minutes extra time of this garbage.

[Tale]

It will liven up.

[Abagadro]

Couple good runs in but no one wants to put it on goal.

[Tale]

It's a knockout match, so they have no choice. And if it goes to penalties, Krul will not be in goal as Netherlands has no more substitutions.

[Sir T]

ZZZzzzzzz.....

[Chimpy]

Aguero should not have been brought on for Higuain.