NFL 2014

[Cyrrex]

Dallas is going to end up losing this game because they stubbornly continue to rush four, and getting zero pressure on a CLEARLY hobbled Rodgers.  His movement is terrible...he is practically a statue back there, and yet you are giving him time because why?  Bizarre.  I know the guy is good against the blitz, but jesus christ. 

[Malakili]

 

These rules for what is and isn't a catch are so arcane.  I want Green Bay to win (being a Giants fan and therefore hating the Cowboys), but I don't get how a player stretching for the endzone after having caught the ball doesn't count as making a "football move."  I mean he had two feet down, stretched for the end zone, and the ball came out at the end.

[Shannow]

Wow that was a horrible call. I have no dog in this fight but I thought that was a great catch by Bryant. To reverse that?

Fuck the NFL and its HORRIBLE officiating. HORRIBLE.

Of course the entire city of Detroit is probably smiling their asses off right now. :D

[WayAbvPar]

That is the right call according to the rules. He never controlled it through hitting the ground or made a move, which are the criteria.

[Malakili]

That is the right call according to the rules. He never controlled it through hitting the ground or made a move, which are the criteria.

He caught the ball on one foot, stepped on the other foot and reached for the endzone and stuck the ball out.  How the fuck is that not a "move."?

Seriously, if he had just rolled over on this back instead of reaching for the endzone it's a catch. Too bad Dez, I guess trying to score is penalized now.

[Cyrrex]

Yeah, that was....something.  I'll just throw it out there, but I think it technically does not qualify according to their retarded control rules.  On every sandlot ever, that was a catch.

Still, they are going to lose this game because they are letting Rodgers stand there and do whatever he wants.  Also that Adams kid, fucking hell did he come from?

If Rodgers is hobbled next week, Seattle might literally turn him into an Aaron-flavored paste.

[sickrubik]

Teh focus is not a football move, but maintaining control. Which based on the rules, is correct.

Correct call, bad rule.

[Cyrrex]

Teh focus is not a football move, but maintaining control. Which based on the rules, is correct.

Correct call, bad rule.

Yeah, that.  The ball clearly pops out as a result of slamming it into the ground, hence the control rule comes into play.  What makes it still feel like a legit catch is that the ball still lands in his hands after popping out.  Good enough for the sandlot, not good enough for the NFL.

Edit to add - I would have like to see it stand as a catch, because it deserved to be.  I

[Malakili]

Yeah, that.  The ball clear pops out as a result of slamming it into the ground, hence the control rule comes into play.  What makes it still feel like a legit catch is that the ball still lands in his hands after popping out.  

Right, but the ball popped out after he was down.  2 feet down, thigh down, reaching the ball out the ball hits the ground and comes out.  That just seems like 1000 other plays where the ball pops out at the end of a play but the player is down by contact and so no one cares.  How many steps with the ball does he have to take before he's just down and the ball comes out afterward? It just seems so arbitrary when they make these calls.

[WayAbvPar]

Yeah, that.  The ball clear pops out as a result of slamming it into the ground, hence the control rule comes into play.  What makes it still feel like a legit catch is that the ball still lands in his hands after popping out.  

Right, but the ball popped out after he was down.  2 feet down, thigh down, reaching the ball out the ball hits the ground and comes out.  That just seems like 1000 other plays where the ball pops out at the end of a play but the player is down by contact and so no one cares.  How many steps with the ball does he have to take before he's just down and the ball comes out afterward?

It is all part of the process. Go back and watch the TD to Megatron they referenced in the broadcast from several years ago. If that wasn't a catch, this certainly wasn't. I don't agree with the interpretation, but that is how it is being called.

[Cyrrex]

Had it been on a run...yes.  On this play, he is going to the ground after a catch.  He hasn't made a "football move", because that requires landing and running, not going to the ground.

Anyway, it is semantics and a mostly bullshit rule.

GB was not going to lose anyway, Dallas did zilch to stop the ensuing drive even with everything on the line.

[sickrubik]

All of that happened during the reception, though. The process of hte play was happening. Keep in mind it always looks that much "longer" because we're watching it in super slow motion.

THAT BEING SAID, The packers were pretty much doing whatever they wanted in the fourth quarter and would have had over 4 minutes on the clock left and would, at worst, needed only a FG to force overtime.

[Raguel]

Teh focus is not a football move, but maintaining control. Which based on the rules, is correct.

Correct call, bad rule.

It should be both; if he made a football move then it should be a catch.

For what it's worth I thought it was incomplete until I checked the internetz lulz.

[sickrubik]

The point of hte call is "control", /not/ a football move, is the point. I'm not debating he made a football move or not, but the ball moved as the reception is happening. The rules state that would be an incomplete pass.

All that being said, if he had just wrapped the ball up instead of stretching out, it would be a reception all day long.

[Chimpy]

All that being said, if he had just wrapped the ball up instead of stretching out, it would be a reception all day long.

This.

He never had control before the ball hit the ground and got knocked totally loose.

[Raguel]

Dallas is going to end up losing this game because they stubbornly continue to rush four, and getting zero pressure on a CLEARLY hobbled Rodgers.  His movement is terrible...he is practically a statue back there, and yet you are giving him time because why?  Bizarre.  I know the guy is good against the blitz, but jesus christ. 

Dallas sucks at blitzing. You might not have noticed but they did try blitzing a few times and GB made them pay almost every time. To further the lulz the Cowboys best blitzer is also the best cover corner on the roster.

Unless the next Joe Montana/Rice/Gonzalez is in the draft Jones better be all in on defense. They are long on heart but short on talent.

[Malakili]

Yeah, that catch from a few years back was clearly a catch too.  The real problem from my point of view is how arbitrary it all seems to me.  "The process" of catching the ball is a totally unclear standard.  Sometimes they say it's a football move.  Well he had 2 feet down and reached for the endzone.  Why is that still part of the catching process?  Someone explain to me why that is still part of the process but if he had just been running free, caught the ball, taken two steps and then just accidentally dropped the ball it would almost certainly be ruled a fumble instead of an incomplete pass?  He clearly controlled the ball before reaching out, it's not like the ball was sliding around the entire time.

Whatever, I've been ranting and raving about this shit for years, it's just another example of how arbitrary this particular rule is and I absolutely hate it.

[Malakili]

The point of hte call is "control", /not/ a football move, is the point. I'm not debating he made a football move or not, but the ball moved as the reception is happening. The rules state that would be an incomplete pass.

All that being said, if he had just wrapped the ball up instead of stretching out, it would be a reception all day long.

Agreed on the second point.  But when does "control" stop mattering is my point?  When does "the reception" end?  That's why we keep bringing up the football move idea.  Because as we (at least I) understand it, controlling the ball through a football move would end "the reception."

[sickrubik]

As almost everyone has stated. ITS A BAD RULE. That doesn't mean the call was wrong. It just means the rule is bad.

https://twitter.com/adbrandt/status/554384743748624384

We now have agenda item #1 in the Competition Committee.  #DALvsGB

[Raguel]

QBs with 140+ rating are now 30 - 1 in the playoffs.

That goes along with another stat I saw how QBS with 400+ yds and 5+ tds are like a zillion  and 2 in the regular season.

Two guesses which QB owns all 3 losses and the second guess doesn't count.  

[Malakili]

As almost everyone has stated. ITS A BAD RULE. That doesn't mean the call was wrong. It just means the rule is bad.

I'm asking someone to explain the rule to me, because I clearly don't understand it.  I'm saying that even taking that rule into account, how do we define "the process."  When is "the process" of making the catch over?

[sickrubik]

My game is about to start, so I'll have to come back to it a little later, unless someone beats me to it.

Edit:

From http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/11_2013_ForwardPass_BackPass_Fumble.pdf

COMPLETED OR INTERCEPTED PASS
Article 3 Completed or Intercepted Pass. A player who makes a catch may advance the ball. A forward pass is complete
(by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:
(a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and
(b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and
(c) maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act
common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an
opponent, etc.).
Note 1: It is not necessary that he commit such an act, provided that he maintains control of the ball long enough to do so.
Note 2: If a player has control of the ball, a slight movement of the ball will not be considered a loss of possession. He must
lose control of the ball in order to rule that there has been a loss of possession.
If the player loses the ball while simultaneously touching both feet or any part of his body to the ground, it is not a catch.
Item 1: Player Going to the Ground. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact
by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground, whether in the
field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control,
the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.
Item 2: Sideline Catches. If a player goes to the ground out-of-bounds (with or without contact by an opponent) in the
process of making a catch at the sideline, he must maintain complete and continuous control of the ball throughout
the process of contacting the ground, or the pass is incomplete.
 Item 3: End Zone Catches. The requirements for a catch in the end zone are the same as the requirements for a catch in
the field of play.
Note: In the field of play, if a catch of a forward pass has been completed, after which contact by a defender causes the ball to
become loose before the runner is down by contact, it is a fumble, and the ball remains alive. In the end zone, the same
action is a touchdown, since the receiver completed the catch beyond the goal line prior to the loss of possession, and the
ball is dead when the catch is completed.
Item 4: Ball Touches Ground. If the ball touches the ground after the player secures control of it, it is a catch, provided
that the player continues to maintain control.
Item 5: Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the
ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently
gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing
team become eligible to catch the loose ball.
Item 6: Carried Out of Bounds. If a player, who is in possession of the ball, is held up and carried out of bounds by an
opponent before both feet or any part of his body other than his hands touches the ground inbounds, it is a completed
or intercepted pass.

[Malakili]

c) maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act
common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an
opponent, etc.).

Even with this rule it strikes me that it should have been a catch. He advanced with it, and stretched out for the end zone.  If that doesn't count then I just don't get it. Is it entirely because he was off balance when making the catch?

Whatever.  Time to watch game 2.

[WayAbvPar]

As almost everyone has stated. ITS A BAD RULE. That doesn't mean the call was wrong. It just means the rule is bad.

I'm asking someone to explain the rule to me, because I clearly don't understand it.  I'm saying that even taking that rule into account, how do we define "the process."  When is "the process" of making the catch over?

When the ball has been secured and the receiver is either on the ground or has made a football move. It is a 3 part process- catch, secure, down/move.  

[Chimpy]

Item 1 in that rule is what this play was about. The ball touched the ground.

[WayAbvPar]

Colts are gonna get boatraced. Jesus.

[01101010]

Item 1 in that rule is what this play was about. The ball touched the ground.

And yet, the Pack got away with a clear incomp pass when the nose of ball touched the ground earlier in the game. Just odd. Karma is a bitch sometimes.

[sickrubik]

Don't do the race for what should have or shouldn't be called.

[01101010]

https://vine.co/v/ODmzxqFiKUd

For the ha-ha's

[Malakili]

If only he had just rolled over onto his back like receivers often do in such a situation.

[Paelos]

It's a dumb rule, but Dallas has a shitty defense, as I've said all year. They can't hope to go all the way giving up 24+ a game in the postseason. No team really can.

[Tannhauser]

It's a dumb rule, but Dallas has a shitty defense, as I've said all year. They can't hope to go all the way giving up 24+ a game in the postseason. No team really can.

Your tears are delicious.

[WayAbvPar]

Colts are gonna get boatraced. Jesus.

Either their D adjusted or Peyton's expiration date arrived. They have definitely unfucked themselves. For now.

[Tannhauser]

Didn't see the whole quarter, but Manning and the offense sucks.  Manning's throws are into double coverage or very inaccurate.  Thomas couldn't catch a cold sitting bare-assed on a glacier.

[naum]