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Author Topic: EQ Next Landmark - It's Like Minecraft But Not™  (Read 332659 times)
Venkman
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Reply #350 on: February 24, 2014, 04:50:04 PM

One HUGE difference between this and Minecraft, among many, is that in minecraft, the tedium of deep mining is rewarded with whatever I dug out staying dug out. I can stop and do something else, then go back and pick up where I left off days or weeks later. I can combine the mining with building a safe tunnel between two surface locations, or with eliminating possible spawn points under a spawn farm, or with hollowing out a huge cavern to build a city in, or whatever.  The point is, my changes persist, and outside this tiny box in Landmark, they don't. None of that is possible in Landmark, so I'm very worried wondering how they will be able to avoid having mining for rares quickly become unbearably tedious and unrewarding.

Yea basically. Your EQNL Claim is basically a very tiny MC map. They're changing the concept of islands, resources, and extraction; however, the only thing they've said they're changing about Claims as far as I know is you will be able to link more of them together. So if a guild gets together maybe they can create a SWG-style City. But after that all I have are guesses. Like, are Cities surface only, or cubic volumes all the way to the bottom of the world? Different game play possibilities in both scenarios.

Also based on what they've said about the bazaars and how your character can become a vendor (old EQ1 style Bazaar if I recall correctly), resource mining should be a business. While the basic materials aren't all consumable by nature (you can recycle Stone and Wood from whatever you built if you delete it), anything that goes into creating a tool, Crafting Station, Accessory or Prop I believe will remain a one-way street. So you want more Torches, you goes gets more wood.

If that's all true, the resources economy will be less class-limited than purely interest/time-limited, as in "I don't feels like mining 90000 Tungsten Ore for 900 Tungten Ingots.
Signe
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Muse.


Reply #351 on: February 25, 2014, 01:15:35 PM

Look what this guy named Sherlock did.  It's his inventory vault.  It doesn't look quite as nice in the pic because you can't see all the mysterious swirling.  I might try putting one in a wall with some sort of frame around it so it looks like a wall mirror.  Then I can ask it who the fairest one of all is and hunt them down and kill them wth apples.  It can be my legacy.



Don't worry.  I'm sure most of you are safe.

My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
Falconeer
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Reply #352 on: February 26, 2014, 01:16:47 AM

A new, improved smoothing tool is coming.



Also, to keep up with some of the most impressive creations:


Sky
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I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #353 on: February 26, 2014, 06:49:54 AM

Yeah, I caught that tweet and  DRILLING AND MANLINESS'd

That screenshot Falc posted is kind of where I'm going with my current build. My tower even has the same kind of edging, though currently I have textures too similar to really see them. I also started windows (I'm not good enough for microvoxel nonsense) but I like those recessed ones he did.

After watching Kingdom:Come vids through their KS, I want to totally revamp my battlements.
Xanthippe
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Reply #354 on: February 26, 2014, 07:14:16 AM

I bought the whole thing... well, the EQN bit was a present.  I fully intended to give you one of the beta keys I get unless you bought it yourself.  I think beta starts sometime in March.  Falc would know.  He's my go to guy for news.   awesome, for real  And shoes.

Well, thank you. I look forward to it.

Minecraft has taken the place of CoX for me insofar as being the game I keep going back to when I tire of the rest. But as anyone who has seen my buildings can attest, I'm much better at the harvesting than the building. I build like a dull 6 year old.


[Edit: punctuation and more coffee]
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 07:16:54 AM by Xanthippe »
murdoc
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Reply #355 on: February 26, 2014, 07:19:17 AM

Don't worry.  I'm sure most of you are safe.

 awesome, for real

Have you tried the internet? It's made out of millions of people missing the point of everything and then getting angry about it
Sky
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Reply #356 on: February 26, 2014, 08:51:21 AM

Luckily, I cannot be killed by apples.
Bzalthek
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Reply #357 on: February 26, 2014, 06:43:51 PM

With the desert plots I really want to recreate some of the areas from the Dark Tower Books.  Lud and the Cradle of Blane the Mono would be neat.  Or maybe Magus.

"Pity hurricanes aren't actually caused by gays; I would take a shot in the mouth right now if it meant wiping out these chucklefucks." ~WayAbvPar
Signe
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Muse.


Reply #358 on: February 26, 2014, 07:21:25 PM

So next week we get snow.  Like I need more snow.  We're bracing for another biggie in a few days, too.  I mean for reals, not in the game.  March is going to be a motherfucker.  Snow.  On the plus side, though, next week we get new servers!  (I think)  New worlds!  Snow.  Right now I think we might have the new smoother which means we don't need the little voxel buffer!  Snow.

My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
Rendakor
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Reply #359 on: February 26, 2014, 07:25:26 PM

I'm confused. Are they putting snow into the game or are you just giving us your local weather forecast?

"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
Morat20
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Reply #360 on: February 26, 2014, 07:34:13 PM

When does this hit "free"? Does it hit free? I find myself fascinated by the concepts.
Torinak
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Reply #361 on: February 26, 2014, 09:54:39 PM

When does this hit "free"? Does it hit free? I find myself fascinated by the concepts.

Given it's Sony, it's much more likely to hit "free" than free. Bets on what kind of "free" to play model they use? Pay-Per-Voxel? Buy every tool? Maybe you can move dirt for free, but pay for each higher tier of resource? Hourly caps on how much you can dig/place, with RMT to lift them?

Maybe I'm being too cynical, but a model that starts with paying $60 to help them test for early access seems a bit crazy, especially when combined with their stated goal of having players create content for another game. Maybe in beta they'll let people pay to help them write code, too?

Or maybe Sony has changed, and is really interested in making money only as a side effect of making awesome games.  awesome, for real
Hawkbit
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Reply #362 on: February 26, 2014, 11:13:18 PM



Quote
Maybe I'm being too cynical,

Yep.

Quote
but a model that starts with paying $60 to help them test for early access seems a bit crazy, especially when combined with their stated goal of having players create content for another game. Maybe in beta they'll let people pay to help them write code, too?

You want your Apprentice Developer title, you gotta earn it.  I already got my $60 out of EQNext and it's not even live yet. 

I think it's pretty awesome that I can build something using this software.  Even more awesome that I might make something that gets used in a game.  I'm genuinely more interested in making things I can share with others than I am reading the same quest text on the nth alt.  I think a lot of people are, too. 
Quinton
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Reply #363 on: February 27, 2014, 01:01:57 AM

I really hope whatever the deal the ProcWorld guy has with SOE allows him to roll improvements to his engine back to his core codebase that he licenses to other people.  It'd be nice to see these kind of voxel worldbuilding tools show up in other places.
Falconeer
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Reply #364 on: February 27, 2014, 01:19:52 AM

Snow literally makrs the end for me. The end of me. The end. There's nothing I like more than snow (maybe cats? Tough one), so this makes me incredibly happy and dangerously stupidly willing to give them more money. Luckily, I can't. Yeah, I'd probably pay extra money for cats, and fog.

Anyway, here's the full patch notes for the curious ones.




Also, pic of the day:


palmer_eldritch
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Reply #365 on: February 27, 2014, 03:27:14 AM

When does this hit "free"? Does it hit free? I find myself fascinated by the concepts.

In theory it hits free on March 31 at the latest, in the sense that this is when beta begins and you can apply to be a beta tester without paying.

They will also let you pay $19 for a guaranteed spot in the beta, so I don't know how many free spots will really exist. I suspect they'll have enough people paying to fill up their beta, or close to it, so that's why I say "in theory". But you can apply for a free beta spot and hope for the best.

And when the game is finally released yes it will be free with "optional in-game purchases" according to their FAQ.
Tmon
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Reply #366 on: February 27, 2014, 08:20:42 AM

The free beta slots will be limited to 7 days, although they do say that you can use multiple codes so you may end up getting more than 7 days in for free during the closed beta.  19.99 gets you unlimited closed beta access.  I am sorely tempted, by that.  There's also an evil little voice that whispers to me while I'm reading this thread, that I should pay the $60 and have a month of fun before they screw up the game by adding levels and level restrictions to tools and resources.
Signe
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Reply #367 on: February 27, 2014, 08:26:35 AM

Snow for everyone!  Me and the game.  This is actually the best alpha experience I've had so far.

My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
Sky
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Reply #368 on: February 27, 2014, 09:03:12 AM

Rift and Tabula Rasa both had really fun alphas, too. But yeah, compared to most it's really good.
Count Nerfedalot
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Reply #369 on: February 27, 2014, 03:25:08 PM

This is SOE we are dealing with here, for better and for worse. It is the Sony of Smedly and Absor and Butler and Domino. It is the same Sony that made EQ possible, then left it saddled with a petty man-child's Vision TM for too many years. It is the same Sony that backed Raph's glorious foolishness then threw out the baby with the bathwater with the NGE. It is the same Sony that gave Scott Hartsman free reign to fix EQ2, then failed to adequately market it to capitalize on his results and instead drove him off and proceeded to run it into the ground with bad executive decisions (all revolving around attempting to squeeze ever more money out rather than building the brand and brand loyalty) and multiple iterations of ever smaller and ever less experienced teams. It is the same Sony that in general treats its developers far better than the industry average, with good benefits and working conditions conducive to having a life outside of work, but still periodically lays off hundreds of the rank-and-file at a time due to executive or managerial mistakes, mismanagement and incompetence.

This is also still very much an Alpha. Last Wednesday they pushed an update that broke all sorts of stuff they really should have caught while considering the changes much less while making or testing them. With a herculean effort they patched in quite a few fixes on Friday, then sent everyone home for the weekend. Several (many?) of them then spent much of the weekend playing the game. Yesterday they fixed and broke more stuff, including removing the ability for anyone to place flora (flowers, bushes, trees) of any kind on their claim, and incidentally breaking any template you might have made (and probably every full claim template that they've ever automatically made) that includes even a single flower or rock off in the corner. This after removing every single bush, tree, flower and rock from every claim last Friday. Hope you like your nice treehouse with no trees or the now clear-cut meadow in what used to be deep woods that you built those jungle ruins in! You won't be able to fix them until they get the several systems in place needed to properly gather, craft and place flora. Oh, and don't forget to make new templates of everything you still have, without the props you can no longer place! And yet, you can actually go in and play around in a pretty fun, if limited Alpha, environment that works a heck of a lot better than many MMOs have when they went Live.

So, I have hope and fear, and the more time passes the more of both I gain. Sony is probably one of only a couple of companies in the world who has the capability to pull this off. Sony is also probably the one company most likely to screw it up spectacularly. Actually, given their track record and management environment, I think it is almost inevitable that they WILL screw it up, eventually. There are just too many decisions to make and they have to get every single one right or nearly so. The real question is when? Have they already sown the seeds of failure and we just haven't seen the results yet? Or will they push it to release too soon, or screw up the launch, or rob it of key resources just when it gets going to switch focus to EQNext? Or will it survive the minefield of development to get to launch and beyond and then suffer a death of a thousand cuts as small mistakes and shortsighted management decisions accumulate over time once it has lost its status as the current bet-the-company project? Whatever happens, it should be interesting to watch!

Yes, I know I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
Sky
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Reply #370 on: February 28, 2014, 07:20:26 AM

I see what you did there, but your examples of SWG and EQ2 are ten damned years old. This is the SOE that made Planetside 2 and have been much more open about development. They allowed a formerly niche title that everyone brushed off to be developed and did it well. And it worked. Given what we've seen thus far, they've decided to go with that management style.

They just posted their business plan.
Count Nerfedalot
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Reply #371 on: February 28, 2014, 08:08:35 AM

True, but my point also stands that it is many of the SAME people as ten years ago, and although Lucasarts' fat fingers aren't in this pie, corporate Sony still looms over everything.  And it truly is a minefield of decisions they need to get right every time.

So, I have hope, but I also still have doubts. Guess I'm not a True Believer. :)
But I AM having fun and no regrets at all for paying to get in and see it all happening. I even make it a point to help with the /bug system reporting any odd stuff I encounter, especially after seeing a couple comments from the devs to the tune of "oh? we thought that was fixed already" about stuff I was seeing and had assumed was just alpha/unfinished.

Yes, I know I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
Count Nerfedalot
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Reply #372 on: February 28, 2014, 08:15:03 AM

Just to add, Smokejumper/Georgeson is awesome, but so was Hartsman, and no matter how good, any individuals at SOE are always vulnerable to being overidden or loosing a key fight to the Sony bureaucrats.

Yes, I know I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
palmer_eldritch
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Reply #373 on: February 28, 2014, 10:58:07 AM

I think they face a difficulty in that they're creating an MMO style game focusing on building things when a good part of their audience is just going to want to build and not to MMO. Especially in the long term when EQ Next is going to be around to provide a fix for those of us who like an economy and character progression.
Venkman
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Reply #374 on: February 28, 2014, 06:34:32 PM

The EQNL business plan Falc posted is pretty straightforward and doesn't take the experience into any wierd directions:


In short:

  • Phase 2 begins them selling stuff: outfits and resources. But the latter is coupled with changes to how you get tools.
  • Phase 3 is when they go into the deep revenue stuff, the time shortcuts and powerups you find in most Facebook and many mobile apps. Not bad in theory
  • Phase 4 is when you start submitting templates so other buy them (and you and SOE split the rev).
  • Phase 5 wraps up Closed beta, most cosmetics and a lot more customization of claim (sound/music, linked claims, etc).

This is kind of how Minecraft coulda gone had they launched f2p rather than one-time purchase. It's not necessarily gamer friendly, but I think that ship has sailed anyway long ago.

And all of this coincides with their new (again) All Access pass plans, notably the marketplace discounts.
Falconeer
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Reply #375 on: February 28, 2014, 06:43:28 PM



 awesome, for real

Pennilenko
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Reply #376 on: February 28, 2014, 07:38:49 PM

I'm not making any long term predictions or anything of that nature, but it really comes across like the Landmark team loves the shit out of the game they are building.

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
Morat20
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Reply #377 on: February 28, 2014, 07:41:45 PM

For someone not in Alpha, can you sum up the  proposed "game" part of this? Is it just building/crafting/selling sandbox? (Don't get me wrong, just the building part is a game to me, I'm just trying to sort out the actual thrust and activities and goals a player can have).
Pennilenko
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Reply #378 on: February 28, 2014, 07:45:11 PM

For someone not in Alpha, can you sum up the  proposed "game" part of this? Is it just building/crafting/selling sandbox? (Don't get me wrong, just the building part is a game to me, I'm just trying to sort out the actual thrust and activities and goals a player can have).

Well they are talking about some basic combat (maybe some pvp), environmental exploration/danger. There is going to be a lot more digging based exploration with underground biomes to explore and the like.

My pet theory is that Landmark is pretty much half of EQ Next. I get the impression that both games are going to be heavily connected and it appears to me that they are trying to satisfy both MMO players and builders alike with the two games.

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
Simond
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Reply #379 on: March 01, 2014, 03:45:06 AM

So next week we get snow.  Like I need more snow.  We're bracing for another biggie in a few days, too.  I mean for reals, not in the game.  March is going to be a motherfucker.  Snow.  On the plus side, though, next week we get new servers!  (I think)  New worlds!  Snow.  Right now I think we might have the new smoother which means we don't need the little voxel buffer!  Snow.
ETA until first version of: www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk

 Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Sky
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Reply #380 on: March 03, 2014, 08:00:29 AM

Xanthippe
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Reply #381 on: March 03, 2014, 08:06:23 AM

For someone not in Alpha, can you sum up the  proposed "game" part of this? Is it just building/crafting/selling sandbox? (Don't get me wrong, just the building part is a game to me, I'm just trying to sort out the actual thrust and activities and goals a player can have).

Well they are talking about some basic combat (maybe some pvp), environmental exploration/danger. There is going to be a lot more digging based exploration with underground biomes to explore and the like.

My pet theory is that Landmark is pretty much half of EQ Next. I get the impression that both games are going to be heavily connected and it appears to me that they are trying to satisfy both MMO players and builders alike with the two games.

Are they going to stay 2 games, or fold one into the other?

The Landmark parts intrigue me, but neither EQ nor EQ2 did.
Pennilenko
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Reply #382 on: March 03, 2014, 09:35:37 AM

Two separate games tied together heavily, based on what I have read on Twitter, Facebook, and both sets of forums.

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
Shannow
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Reply #383 on: March 03, 2014, 09:44:20 AM

So next week we get snow.  Like I need more snow.  We're bracing for another biggie in a few days, too.  I mean for reals, not in the game.  March is going to be a motherfucker.  Snow.  On the plus side, though, next week we get new servers!  (I think)  New worlds!  Snow.  Right now I think we might have the new smoother which means we don't need the little voxel buffer!  Snow.
ETA until first version of: www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk

 Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

I'd almost got that song out of my head today.


Someone liked something? Who the fuzzy fuck was this heretic? You don't come to this website and enjoy something. Fuck that. ~ The Walrus
Falconeer
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Reply #384 on: March 06, 2014, 01:25:25 AM

A followup by Georgeson about the EQN Landmark business plan, with a few comments about EQ Next. If you care about this project(s) there's a lot of valuable info in there.

Quote
Hi there, folks,

The community team was nice enough to aggregate all the responses we got from players over the weekend about the EQN Landmark business plan that we presented to you.

All in all, it was great feedback and we really appreciate it.

Responses on the various community feeds (FB, Reddit, forums, Twitter, etc.) was generally neutral or positive. By our tally, it was almost entirely either neutral or positive with only a small amount of negativity (less than 5% of responses).

That’s a fantastic initial response! But we also wanted to take a moment to answer the questions we saw appearing in more than one place.

This response by no means ends our conversation. However, it does catch us all up to the same place so we can have better conversations moving forward.

Thanks for reading!

-- Dave.

What is the difference between Landmark and EQN? Will they have the same business plans?
There are very large differences between Landmark and Next.

Landmark is a gigantic sandbox world, where we give you all the tools that we use to build EQN and let you go nuts, developing and refining all the stories, adventures, and worlds that you desire. All of the content in Landmark is created by you, the players, and the game is generally system-oriented. Landmark also embraces all genres. There can be sci-fi right next to fantasy right next to a Madison Square Gardens boxing arena.

In Landmark, you not only show the world your own imagination, but you get to wander through the minds and dreams of countless thousands of other players as well.

EverQuest Next, on the other hand is directed content of a Heroic Fantasy nature. It’s still a giant sandbox to play in, but the focus is different. EQ Next provides the story, adventure and focus for the players, and the creativity players provide is all in how they react to those situations and deal with those plot developments.

The business plans for the two games are NOT identical. We’re planning some similarities, but honestly, we have lots of time still to develop what’s needed for an EverQuest Next business plan. We have no intent to just carbon-copy the Landmark plan over to Next.

What about All Access membership?
All Access is a membership plan you can subscribe to in the Landmark marketplace (after it launches publicly). That item lets you gain access to all SOE games. By itself, that’s worth quite a bit. However, each game in the SOE stable will have a short list of benefits that players will get when they play that game. Landmark is no exception.

The details of what will be included for Landmark if you have an All Access membership have yet to be determined.

What about Market Stalls (and by extension, the virtual coin, in-game economy as well)?
This is a pretty extensive topic that probably deserves a write-up of its own, but there have been lots of tangential questions about our business plan that revolve around the fact that you guys just simply don’t know much about our in-game economy yet. (Because we haven’t told you. Oops.)

The in-game economy is robust, but personal. Everything is centered around players finding each other and socializing to make trades/purchases. Items we expect to see traded/sold include resources, crafted items, and templates.

Of course, we have secure trade so that you can trade 1-on-1. There are also Market Stalls at the hubs. These Stalls can be rented for virtual coin or for SC. (Templates can be traded 1-on-1, but cannot be sold in the Market Stalls for virtual coin. They can, however, be advertised at Market Stalls if they are accepted on Player Studio.)

What about Marketplace and NO TRADE?
In many other games, any item purchased on the marketplace is NO TRADE or can only be shuffled between characters on your account.

Landmark is a bit different. Marketplace items are initially locked as NO TRADE for up to 12 hours after purchase, but then become unlocked thereafter so that you can freely trade or sell them to other players. (You can use your purchase yourself during those first 12 hours, you just can’t trade it yet.)

Why the up-to-12-hour delay? It’s nasty fraud prevention stuff. It’s important. But no more than 12 hours after purchase, your item is unlocked for trading!

What resources will get sold?
All resources will be available for sale. Even the super-common resources like dirt and stone will be available. Resources will be in small and large SC bundles, but the number of resources within each bundle will be scaled according to rarity. (In other words, there is far less obsidian in a resource bundle than there would be in a copper bundle of the same price.)

At this time, there are no “in-game only” resources.

Will cosmetic items be limited exclusively to the marketplace?
No. Although some outfits may be limited to marketplace only, there will be other appearances that are dropped in-game and not available on the marketplace.

Will we sell additional inventory space (bag, vault, chest)?
Yes. Eventually. Not at marketplace launch, but during Phase 3.

Will we allow people to make items (outfits/tools/weapons/etc) in Maya/Blender/Maxx/etc. and submit them to Player Studio?
Yes. But we’re not announcing details on that yet. We have some cool plans and if they come through, it will be much nicer than what we’ve offered in the past.

When will EU players be able to participate in Player Studio?
We are hard at work getting that set up now. We’re working on the major EU countries first, and then we’ll continuously add as we go. There are many tax laws and reporting structures for the different countries, and it takes a reasonably serious investment of time and effort to get each of them running. But we are committed to making this a worldwide game and opening up Player Studio to the world is part of that.

Is there a limit on how many claim flags we can purchase for SC?
Yes. But the rules around that are in flux right now. Let’s discuss this again later, please.

Will purchased claim flags have the same upkeep as a crafted claim flag?
Yes. There is no exception to Upkeep just because you purchased your claim flag.

***
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 01:27:41 AM by Falconeer »

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