No Man's Sky

[apocrypha]

Stop taking this personally you numpties.

This isn't about who enjoys the game and who doesn't, that's irrelevant, nor whether gamers are entitled whiners or not, again irrelevant. It's about whether it's ok for companies to falsely advertise a product or not.

Comparisons have already been made with Volkswagen and their falsification of emissions tests and I think they're valid comparisons. Hello Games are still advertising NMS on their website with the E3 footage which is unrepresentative of the game that is being sold. Sky, if you can't accept that that's fraudulent then I'll say again that I think you're taking this personally and that it's clouding your judgment.

Calls for class action lawsuits are silly, but trying to make sure that Sony and other publishers and developers take away the message that outright false advertising isn't acceptable is not silly, especially in the context of a gaming press that has demonstrated, yet again, that their interests lie with those publishers and developers rather than the consumers who read them.

[Lakov_Sanite]

People have just gotten so used to game devs bullshit that they forget lying about products is really fucking unethical and sometimes illegal.

[Gimfain]

You can speak about it being unethical but anyone who watched the video, knew it was an indie studio with little experience on making games and thought rationally about it knew that it was never going to be remotely close to what it was hyped to be. The game had disappointment of the year written all over it.

If you want to make a stance that this behaviour isn't alright make sure to wait a few days until you buy all the games that has been presented by Sony on E3. Problem is that people will keep on preordering hyped up games, making empty threats about lawsuits just to be fooled again next time.

Stop preordering games.

[Amarr HM]

Somebody has to buy it, so whether it's preordered or not is irrelevant. You may aswell say, people 'stop buying games'. Which could actually be sage advice.

[apocrypha]

You can speak about it being unethical but anyone who watched the video, knew it was an indie studio with little experience on making games and thought rationally about it knew that it was never going to be remotely close to what it was hyped to be. The game had disappointment of the year written all over it.

If you want to make a stance that this behaviour isn't alright make sure to wait a few days until you buy all the games that has been presented by Sony on E3. Problem is that people will keep on preordering hyped up games, making empty threats about lawsuits just to be fooled again next time.

Stop preordering games.

You're still blaming the customer for the deception of the company.

And, funnily enough, the more closely you followed the development of the game, the more lies you were exposed to. Right up until the leaked footage, which Murray specifically advised people not to watch so that they didn't spoil the experience for themselves. And yes, to many of us it was obvious that the hype was just that, there were many warning signs, not least of which was the review embargo. But it's not acceptable to expect all potential customer for any product ro be experts in order to not get ripped off.

That is why there are consumer protection laws. And you're advocating the idea that games should be exempt from consumer protection laws. Which is ridiculous.

[Sky]

Unlike you, I'm not amoral, unethical and devoid of empathy.

Nailed it!

[01101010]

You're still blaming the customer for the deception of the company.

And, funnily enough, the more closely you followed the development of the game, the more lies you were exposed to. Right up until the leaked footage, which Murray specifically advised people not to watch so that they didn't spoil the experience for themselves. And yes, to many of us it was obvious that the hype was just that, there were many warning signs, not least of which was the review embargo. But it's not acceptable to expect all potential customer for any product ro be experts in order to not get ripped off.

That is why there are consumer protection laws. And you're advocating the idea that games should be exempt from consumer protection laws. Which is ridiculous.

I guess I take the 'buyer beware' thing too personally because if I buy something that turns out to be shit, that's on me for making the decision to buy the product. Then again, I don't ever believe sales pitches - ever. Fool me once and all that stuff. But we are in an age of shirking personal responsibility at every slight. That's not to say there was no deception by Sean, there was - used car dealer type shit. But again, my upbringing taught me to look at things differently from most people it seems.

[Merusk]

So it's "kids these days" when a product lies about its abilities then?

Let's apply that logic to ANYTHING else.

You should have known those snow tires wouldn't let you drive on ice even though the mfr said they would. So the wreck that destroyed your car is your problem.
You should have known that those cookies contained peanuts when they were made by nabisco, , but they said it was in a nut free factory. so the dead kids on you. 
You should have researched that hair dryer. Sure it had a UL label but EVERYONE knows stuff from China is lying. Clearly the fire was your fault.


Stop giving games a pass to be shitty companies

[Sky]

TIL Sean Murray killed children in a car fire.

Definitely the same thing there.

[apocrypha]

C'mon, straw man. Consumer protection laws can't just be ignored on a product-by-product basis.

Sky/Gimfain, the assertion is that Sony/Hello Games have deliberately mis-sold NMS, that they have, and still are, advertising it as having features that it does not have. Examples: the repeated claim of multiplayer capabilities and the continuing use of the E3 footage that is substantially different from the product being sold.

In your opinions is that correct? Do you agree or disagree that the product being sold is substantially different from the one advertised?

If you agree, in your opinions is that acceptable business practice for any company, any product?

[jakonovski]

Statistically a certain amount of people will always fall for false marketing, thus transforming the "it's your own fault" argument into "it's ok to con dumb people". Which is a ridiculous argument to make.

[Lakov_Sanite]

So it's "kids these days" when a product lies about its abilities then?

Let's apply that logic to ANYTHING else.

You should have known those snow tires wouldn't let you drive on ice even though the mfr said they would. So the wreck that destroyed your car is your problem.
You should have known that those cookies contained peanuts when they were made by nabisco, , but they said it was in a nut free factory. so the dead kids on you. 
You should have researched that hair dryer. Sure it had a UL label but EVERYONE knows stuff from China is lying. Clearly the fire was your fault.


Stop giving games a pass to be shitty companies

It's exactly this but you can even use less severe examples.

Tshirt designs melting after one wash? Should have researched every hot topic product first.
New Bluray player won't play old dvds even though the box says it does? Should have looked more carefully online.
Box of fruity pebbles actually contains corn flakes? You needed to wait until someone else bought fruity pebbles first to see how their experience was.  That's on you.

[Yegolev]

I think there is a difference between Buyer Beware and Deception for Profit.  For one thing, they can both exist at the same time.

[Gimfain]

C'mon, straw man. Consumer protection laws can't just be ignored on a product-by-product basis.

Sky/Gimfain, the assertion is that Sony/Hello Games have deliberately mis-sold NMS, that they have, and still are, advertising it as having features that it does not have. Examples: the repeated claim of multiplayer capabilities and the continuing use of the E3 footage that is substantially different from the product being sold.

In your opinions is that correct? Do you agree or disagree that the product being sold is substantially different from the one advertised?

If you agree, in your opinions is that acceptable business practice for any company, any product?

I don't even know how I got on the side defending this game, maybe its because I was never hyped up to begin with. I thought the E3 trailer looked mediocre and I couldn't find one video that showed interesting gameplay. It feels like all this disappointment could have been avoided if gamers would think rationally about this game but instead they filled every blank with their imagination and that always gets you disappointed.

As far as consumer protection laws goes, if the product that you bought doesn't have what it claims to have you should try get a refund. Problem is that most of the complaint about this game isn't about money, its outrage about him lying about the game.

On multiplayer "multiplayer is not a thing people should be thinking about, going into the game". "multiplayer for the game, we've always said, is not really a big focus". He went on about it even more in some interviews. You do have his mention where you could possibly see each other and also some other stuff which was bullshit. Problem is that gamers chose to ignore the negative mentions on multiplayer and kept focusing on what could possibly be there.

[Merusk]

So it's "kids these days" when a product lies about its abilities then?

Let's apply that logic to ANYTHING else.

You should have known those snow tires wouldn't let you drive on ice even though the mfr said they would. So the wreck that destroyed your car is your problem.
You should have known that those cookies contained peanuts when they were made by nabisco, , but they said it was in a nut free factory. so the dead kids on you. 
You should have researched that hair dryer. Sure it had a UL label but EVERYONE knows stuff from China is lying. Clearly the fire was your fault.


Stop giving games a pass to be shitty companies

It's exactly this but you can even use less severe examples.

Tshirt designs melting after one wash? Should have researched every hot topic product first.
New Bluray player won't play old dvds even though the box says it does? Should have looked more carefully online.
Box of fruity pebbles actually contains corn flakes? You needed to wait until someone else bought fruity pebbles first to see how their experience was.  That's on you.

Yes, but I wanted to go for the extreme as something you can't ignore. I expected the, "yes, it's just like klling kids" thing. It's the exact sign of someone who knows they don't have a leg to stand on.

Like pointing out spelling errors in an otherwise convincing argument then declaring you won.

[Khaldun]

I completely defend the game. And I'm completely against refunds. And I think it's an embarassing piece of shit that Sean Murray and Hello Games should feel bad about and be hounded for.

These are not inconsistent. This is what people who are connoisseurs of a given cultural form should think. I order a wine. It's genuinely spoiled--I mean, it should be good, but this one bottle is corked or contaminated?--I sent it back. I order a wine. It's not what I thought it was--it's kind of shitty. That's on me. I decided to try it. I either thought it was good even though people said otherwise, or I thought it was good because some people loved it or some critics esteemed it. Or the sommelier said great things. In all those case, it's on me. Maybe even if people said, "Hey, I dunno, it's pretty fucking weird, but if  you're into this kind of wine, try it". All on me. It's only when it's genuinely spoiled: non-working, seriously shit, broken, full of bacteria, that's it is on someone else. Every other time, it's on me. I pay. I can be mad about it later: that's completely legit. I can say, "Your wine should have been better" or "Robert Parker is shitty motherfucker who is on the take". All ok. But I can't say, "I didn't know, give me my money back". Unless I also want to say, "I'm a dumb motherfucker and take my credit card away from me, because I'm too dumb to have it."

[schild]

All new NMS discussion goes here: http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=25379.0