Penny Arcade ends PATV and Penny Arcade Report.

[Ironwood]

These are not just two guys tho.  These chaps are a Company.  It's much, much, much more important to sort your shit out, especially if you have a habit of jumping sharks in public.

I found the statement interesting, not because of the usual shit, but because of the nugget of information I didn't already know; namely that Childs Play isn't theirs anymore.  That tells me everything I need to know and, if you think about it, just make oodles and oodles of sense commercially.  Sure, it was their baby and a great idea, but you wouldn't want Dickwolves splurging all over it, since they can't seem to help themselves.

I think there are just so many signs of bad management practice because these two chaps refuse to face the fact that they are a company and not a small one either.

Hey ho.

[dusematic]

There was no need to apologize for the Dick Wolves comic or for claiming that women have vaginas.

Exactly.

[Jeff Kelly]

That was never in contention. Nobody in this thread claimed that they should have apologized. At least I didn't.

It's just that what they did instead of not apologizing was just that much worse.

[Falconeer]

Oh no, they totally should have apologised (for what it's worth...). But they are a) too caught up in their own, very simple privileged world to understand why. They honestly, really cannot get it. And b) probably realized that the _majority_ of their audience would have liked them less if they apologised. See the cheering at that recent event when they said it was a mistake to retire the Dickwolves merchandise.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Man the whole women vagina thing does make me want to go off on a tangent about science vs social gender stereotypes, that's for politics though.

[Der Helm]

Man the whole women vagina thing does make me want to go off on a tangent about science vs social gender stereotypes, that's for politics though.

I think we have not ghetto-denned a thread for quite some time, go for it.  

[rattran]

[Venkman]

 

THAT made me laugh.

[dusematic]

Oh no, they totally should have apologised (for what it's worth...). But they are a) too caught up in their own, very simple privileged world to understand why. They honestly, really cannot get it. And b) probably realized that the _majority_ of their audience would have liked them less if they apologised. See the cheering at that recent event when they said it was a mistake to retire the Dickwolves merchandise.

Actually, When you grow up you realize that you have two choices in this situation :  You apologize or you SHUT THE FUCK UP.  So they could have apologized OR shut up.  Very important distinction.

[Merusk]

Man the whole women vagina thing does make me want to go off on a tangent about science vs social gender stereotypes, that's for politics though.

I think we have not ghetto-denned a thread for quite some time, go for it.  

I'm pretty sure we HAVE a denned thread about the exact topic from when the comment was first made.  I recall lengthy discussions from that time that suddenly stopped.

I could dig in deeper but you both make decent points. When it comes to it, I just really hate the term and I've watched a lot of rich people clink glasses at a lot of parties in the guise of it. It's one of those things that makes me see red.

I do still believe we should do more and say less, and in this case it's just a internet comic. Some people believe there's a need to fight every single battle on every front. I'm not really one of those.

"Do More say less" is often used by folks who don't want to think about the issue and want it to go away quietly and exist in the darkness like it used to be, "Back when things were normal." While I don't believe you fall in to that category, think about that for a moment.

I've found the loudest protestors of 'raising awareness' of anything are those who have the most to lose.  White males dislike most 'raising awareness' campaigns because it equates to "I'm not in charge & special anymore,"  even if they don't consciously realize their current advantages.  Males in general dislike rape awareness campaigns because suddenly things that were 'perfectly normal' are suddenly realized to be pretty creepy abuses of power.  Like chatting a girl up while plying her with alcohol and then taking her home.

[Paelos]

"Do More say less" is often used by folks who don't want to think about the issue and want it to go away quietly and exist in the darkness like it used to be, "Back when things were normal." While I don't believe you fall in to that category, think about that for a moment.

I get what you're saying, but my complaint about it comes from a personal viewpoint of people mentally masturbating over an issue, declaring victory because somebody apologized or got fired, and actually doing nothing. Or people spending money on huge consulting firms to raise awareness, when actually they are just fundraising so they can throw parties to get more fundraising.

I see the point about prevention of a social issue, but I want to make sure that's not the only focus. It should be coupled with helping the current victims as well, moreso in fact,, or you're really changing little. People will see how the victims are treated now and never want to go through that if they are assaulted. And the cycle keeps going. I just think there's a greater impact there than making some dickhead with a webcomic apologize.

[sickrubik]

I see the point about prevention of a social issue, but I want to make sure that's not the only focus.

IT ISN'T. 

[Paelos]

How do you know that?

[Hoax]

Like chatting a girl up while plying her with alcohol and then taking her home.

[dusematic]

Like chatting a girl up while plying her with alcohol and then taking her home.

lol

[Margalis]

I've found the loudest protestors of 'raising awareness' of anything are those who have the most to lose.  White males dislike most 'raising awareness' campaigns because it equates to "I'm not in charge & special anymore,"  even if they don't consciously realize their current advantages.  Males in general dislike rape awareness campaigns because suddenly things that were 'perfectly normal' are suddenly realized to be pretty creepy abuses of power.  Like chatting a girl up while plying her with alcohol and then taking her home.

Sometimes "raising awareness" falls along the same lines as "all publicity is good" type excuse-making.

Someone does something inconsequential or idiotic but because it supposedly "raised awareness" it's still valuable. I'm not opposed to actually raising awareness, I'm just opposed to people who invoke it as a shield. And I don't think being bitchy in some moronic Twitter squabble is "awareness raising" as much as it is social media dogpiling.

Rape awareness campaigns or AIDS awareness campaigns or whatever are fine. I don't see those as having much in common with people taking to Twitter to share "fuk u cisgendered bigot" or making extremely melodramatic blog posts then claiming they raised awareness.

In the case of the PA gaffes I don't see a lot of "awareness raising", I see a lot of people acting like assholes (on both sides) while trying to claim some form of moral superiority.

[UnSub]

Like chatting a girl up while plying her with alcohol and then taking her home.

Because that always ends well.

Also, on the whole Dickwolves thing, here's a timeline for those wanting to catch-up. It was almost all wrapped up as an issue - such as it was - until PA brought it back in September by saying how they never should have stopped selling the Dickwolves t-shirts. That showed a complete failure to understand what had gone on because all they had to do was shut up. Instead again PA needed to say "I WAS RIGHT" as a final comment.   

[schild]

They should've kept selling them. On that particular point, they are correct.

[Fabricated]

OF course it's a tumblr. lol.

[schild]

I've found that when any culture reaches tumblr, it lets me tune them out like with *-kins and "body acceptance" groups.

[Rendakor]

*-kins

Thanks for reminding me that that's a thing. Ugh.

[schild]

*-kins

Thanks for reminding me that that's a thing. Ugh.

Well, maybe if you weren't out apologizing for all that rape you'd remember some people just want to be vampire faerie kin. God.

Anyway, everything about PA is stupid and I don't know why of it ever became a THING.

[Lakov_Sanite]

#otherkin was my introduction to the internet at a time when I thought vampires and werewolves were cool, I was just a young teen interested in the horror genre.


I have seen true horror.

[dusematic]

Like chatting a girl up while plying her with alcohol and then taking her home.

Because that always ends well.

Also, on the whole Dickwolves thing, here's a timeline for those wanting to catch-up. It was almost all wrapped up as an issue - such as it was - until PA brought it back in September by saying how they never should have stopped selling the Dickwolves t-shirts. That showed a complete failure to understand what had gone on because all they had to do was shut up. Instead again PA needed to say "I WAS RIGHT" as a final comment.  

Thanks for posting that.  Most people in this thread agreed nothing was wrong with the comic itself but took issue with the way Gabe acted afterwards.  I googled "dickwolves" and stumbled across the "geek feminism" wiki that had a short summary of the controversy with no indication of any post-comic asshole-ish behavior.  Scanning the lengthy tumblr Debacle Timeline, I admit Gabe was sarcastic and snarky at times.  It also looked like he made at least one apology for "being snarky" and told a guy named "Dick Wolvington" (presumably an overzealous supporter of PA) on Twitter to simmer down and stop being a jerk.  

Ultimately I didn't see anything that would engender the sort of disdain evidenced in this thread.  I mean, I can appreciate if your position is the comic propagated rape culture, or crossed a line, or whatever.  I would disagree, but I can appreciate that, because then it logically follows that everything after was jerk icing on a douche cake.  But if you say the comic was unremarkable, as most here have said, then what are you left with?

Not much.  Just a few sarcastic comments after being accused of a pretty offensive act.  And the fact that's enough for people here to write someone completely off and equate it to telling rape survivors they "deserve to be raped" is laughable.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Truth be told, from a purely financial standpoint, they will make more money being chauvinistic asshole than not.  Right now people want to be more open to female gamers and grow that audience but until that happens, dudebro shooters are still king so PA could go as far as they want in the "screw you vaginas" dept. and it wouldn't hurt them much at all.  I would disagree with that practice but it's just a sad reality right now.

[Bzalthek]

I am so ready to be a rampaging chainsaw troll-kin!

[Samwise]

Well, maybe if you weren't out apologizing for all that rape you'd remember some people just want to be vampire faerie kin. God.

 

[Sir T]

Also, on the whole Dickwolves thing, here's a timeline for those wanting to catch-up. It was almost all wrapped up as an issue - such as it was - until PA brought it back in September by saying how they never should have stopped selling the Dickwolves t-shirts. That showed a complete failure to understand what had gone on because all they had to do was shut up. Instead again PA needed to say "I WAS RIGHT" as a final comment.  

Thank you for posting that. After skimming through it for now, my first impression is that there was plenty of dicks and stupidity on all sides of this tempest in a teacup. Its possible that people were fed up with the PA crew for other reasons and they overreacted on this because of sausquatch.

And yeah, they shouldn't have stopped selling Team Dickwolves merch imo.

[Margalis]

The fact that someone went to the trouble of creating that timeline is to me a sign of greatly misplaced priorities. This is the level of effort that should be put into persecuting Nazi war criminals, not unfunny cartoonists.

[Paelos]

The timeline is for raising awareness. 

I kid, I kid.

[Ingmar]

The fact that someone went to the trouble of creating that timeline is to me a sign of greatly misplaced priorities. This is the level of effort that should be put into persecuting Nazi war criminals, not unfunny cartoonists.

It probably took less time to compile than you've spent, say, arguing with WUA about Star Wars.

[schild]

loooooooooooooool

[UnSub]

But if you say the comic was unremarkable, as most here have said, then what are you left with?

I think the comic is pretty much standard PA, but it was how PA coped with that criticism that became a thing. Dickwolves wouldn't have become merchandise if PA wasn't throwing a big fuck you at all their critics on this issue. Ultimately PA walked itself back on Dickwolves because it hurts their mainstream legitimacy and expanding media attempts, even if it was popular among vocal sections of gamers.

There are some topics where some sensitivity would be nice to see. Rape is one of those topics. PA has complete freedom of speech to make rape jokes, but freedom of speech also means that people can call them out on it too.

[Numtini]

The fact that someone went to the trouble of creating that timeline is to me a sign of greatly misplaced priorities.

It's on tumblr. Tumblr activists are the bottom of the food chain for activists. If you're an anti-globalist dressed in an otter costume lobbing a brick through a Starbucks window to protest capitalism, you justify yourself by saying "I'm perfectly sane and reasonable, not like those people on tumblr."

I will say one thing about gaming culture though. I live 90 minutes from the Hynes. I've never even tried to get a ticket to Pax. It's not the neighborhood, I go there for the MMA conference every few years. It's not that I'm boycotting it. It's the general gamer mentality. If I had friends to ride up with that would be one thing, but to walk into that environment as a woman alone. No way. And that's not Pax because they actually seem to at least want to care, that's the gaming world in general.

I see that as a problem.