Ghostcrawler's Leaving

[Setanta]

They're crazy if they'll planning on allowing LFG for heroics again or making it a regular part of the gear path.

I'm going to regret asking this ... why?

I preferred running dungeons to get gear. Even LFG was fine ... as a tank.

[Rokal]

They're crazy if they'll planning on allowing LFG for heroics again or making it a regular part of the gear path.

I'm going to regret asking this ... why?

I preferred running dungeons to get gear. Even LFG was fine ... as a tank.

Because they already performed this experiment in Cata and it failed. Randomly formed groups aren't usually fun/ideal to deal with content that requires coordination. Allowing a random matching service for a type of content sets the expectation that the content will be feasible with the average random group you get. Making it part of the normal gear path (as opposed to having it be an alternative to LFR/Flex raid gear or something) makes people feel like they're supposed to do it and for most players that means they're going to want to use LFG.

Honestly, I loved the Cata dungeons, but if I was running them in LFG and had to explain fights to random strangers I'd never see again every single time I ran the dungeon I would have pulled my hair out.

I don't think they'd make the same mistake again, which either means it won't be part of the normal gear path to get into LFR/Flex/Normal raiding, or they're over-stating the difficulty.

[Setanta]

I thought so.

I rarely ever had a problem with PUG/LFG groups and liked gearing up that way. If I had a retard or 3 in the group I'd just leave, log another tank and be back in a new dungeon in no time. It's not like dungeons to date have actually been hard, even heroics. In the supposed too-hard TBC days I was steam rolling the heroic dungeons each night and had cut and paste macros for each boss. I actually loved these dungeons and the WotLK dungeons even when gearing up, Cata was a step backwards. I can't believe people think Cata heroics were hard - any of them - even Grim Batol was a cake walk with a maximum of one retard per group. Panda heroics were a joke.

I'd rather run a dungeon or 3 than get into LFR to gear up.

[Rendakor]

Vortex Pinnacle was the other really shitty Cata one for pugs, in my experience. You had trash that could fling you off the edge, the wind dragon boss who was very unforgiving pre-nerf, and those trash pulls in the grounding fields that required a rogue or hunter if you wanted any kind of CC.

[Paelos]

Trying to convince people to slow down and CC in a pug isn't fun.

[Mithas]

I do LFG almost exclusively. Most of the people I know either aren't playing anymore or there are too few to form a solid group to play. If the dungeons are as difficult (for a PUG) as they were for Cataclysm, I will not be playing. I like LFR to see the content, but as a means to gear up? Fuck that. After WoTLK, did they not say "we hear you, heroics were too easy, we'll make them harder". How did that turn out?

[Paelos]

I cancelled again. My entire guild has basically given up because they don't have any new patch for the next 5 months planned, and I geared up most of my shammy in LFR and got several lvl 25 blue pets.

[Sjofn]

If you couldn't queue for heroics in Cataclysm, I would've quit during that expansion (like the bulk of the people I did shit with) instead of ditching when SWTOR came out (and I was out of shit I wanted to do in WoW). It helped that I mostly tanked in those (sometimes healed), so I could be a huge controlling asshole about the pace, though. I also got really good at spitting out the strategy if we had someone new to the instance. 

[apocrypha]

Content difficulty at the start of an expansion is not the same as at the end of an expansion.

5-man heroics now are in the same place that they were at the tail-end of WOTLK - completely trivial due to gear. I only do them occasionally for some valor, and they are just a mindless zerg now with most groups not even stopping for trash but simply gathering them all up and taking them down with the boss.

Now, if that difficulty were to somehow scale throughout the life of an expansion, would that make them better or just make them a PITA?

[Sjofn]

Honestly, I think people would lose patience with it. WE'VE DANCED THIS DANCE A MILLION TIMES, LET US FACEROLL, if you will. Sometimes you just want to brain off, loot on.

[Malakili]

Well, the Diablo 3 expansion is coming.   

[Xanthippe]

Man, that post really brought home the Elitist Cuntbag Stench that he actually brought to the forums.  Bravo.

As to the rest of this crap, I'm not arguing about this stat, or that stat, or this gear or that def stat or BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH FUCKING BLAH.

What I'm saying is that tanking, on all the tanks I have (one of every type) feels the same and not fun.  It's just 'hit this dude, mitigate that spike, listen to the raid being cockgobblers, oh look too many stacks of That debuff, beg the other guy to taunt, wank, wank, wank, wank, wank.'

I used to love tanking.  Leaping in.  Stunning.  Pulling.  Chucking Silences to bring 'em rushing.  Shocking packs.  Blasting Packs.  Healing myself or having panic moments.  Shield Block !  Last Stand !  STUN.  STUN.  Shield Smack !  FUCK YOU, I'M INVINCIBLE, GIVE ME ANOTHER ONE, Shit, Not THAT Many !!!

It was great.  It's not now.

Again I'll say :  if it's fine for you, bravo.  Fuck Off.  Go Play rather than SHITTING ON MY HEAD.  But I'm here to say it's not fun.  I heal now.  I HEAL, FFS.  HEALING IS MY WIFES JOB AND IT'S WHAT I DO NOW.

That's just not right.

I think I understand now. Thank you.

Ironwood has such a way with words. 

[Ironwood]

After the 'Rokal Proclamation' I went back.  I tanked with every tank I had.

Nah.  It's still not fun and any utility that you had is raped.  The only fun you might have is choking someone as a Death Knight (seriously, that lifting/choking animation is awesome).

I stand by my post.  There's never, ever, ever any sense of urgency.  There's never and highs or lows or 'My God, my skill as a tank just scraped us through that.'  It's all 'I didn't get a heal, I didn't have enough mitigation, I got hit by spikes, my thing worn off before my thing ought to worn off, so sad too bad, damn I need better gear.'

Blandy McBland.

[Tannhauser]

In before Rokal tells Iron that his opinion is wrong.

[Rokal]

After the 'Rokal Proclamation' I went back.  I tanked with every tank I had.

Nah.  It's still not fun and any utility that you had is raped.  The only fun you might have is choking someone as a Death Knight (seriously, that lifting/choking animation is awesome).

I stand by my post.  There's never, ever, ever any sense of urgency.  There's never and highs or lows or 'My God, my skill as a tank just scraped us through that.'  It's all 'I didn't get a heal, I didn't have enough mitigation, I got hit by spikes, my thing worn off before my thing ought to worn off, so sad too bad, damn I need better gear.

A) You're tanking dungeons that are over a year old and were never hard. Are you surprised they're faceroll now or something? This was one of the defenses I used for the new tanking model, "you don't need to use active mitigation outside of raiding if you don't want to because the content is so easy".

B) "I need better gear" would have been a more valid complaint pre-MoP since your mitigation was 99% passive. If you die in MoP, you can default to blaming your healer as par for the course, or you can wonder "did I use my active mitigation abilities as well as I could have?" You have more control than ever before of your own survival.

Again, you're just complaining about tanking, not the MoP tanking model in particular. Each classes tanking style is more different than ever and none of the "fun" tanking abilities you called out in an earlier post have been removed or neutered.

I used to love tanking.  Leaping in.  Stunning.  Pulling.  Chucking Silences to bring 'em rushing.  Shocking packs.  Blasting Packs.  Healing myself or having panic moments.  Shield Block !  Last Stand !  STUN.  STUN.  Shield Smack !  FUCK YOU, I'M INVINCIBLE, GIVE ME ANOTHER ONE, Shit, Not THAT Many !!!

This paragraph could be describing how a Prot Warrior plays in any MoP dungeon.

[Zetor]

Well, FWIW I find tanking in MOP less fun and more of a chore than it was in WOTLK or Cata. There aren't any memorable moments like managing the trash in heroic Halls of Reflection, doing the 'dance' for Ozruk in stonecore (or heck, even jumping to avoid the quake from the giants), or doing any of the gauntlet-style sequences... do MOP dungeons even have those? Everything is just 'push buttons in sequence for optimal damage/mitigation' and 'avoid obviously telegraphed predictable AOE'. Only that the 'push buttons' part is actually more of a pain since I have to push more buttons without clear feedback (ok, so I'm pushing shield barrier because it's lit up on my UI... now I'm mitigating 30k damage in the next 6 seconds, yay!).

So MOP dungeon design sucks or MOP tank class design sucks. Take your pick!  

[Sjofn]

Oh now. Can't it be both?

[Ironwood]

Also, not gaining rage from being hit.  I mean, for fucks sake.  That was the most immersive thing they had.  You got whaled on and you got angry.  When you got angry, you got abilities to use.

Now they can sit beating on your ass and unless you hit one of your wee buttons, it's like you just don't care.

Also, I never said it was a 'faceroll'.  I said it had neither highs nor lows.  Even when I'm getting the fuck kicked out of me, I know it's fuck all to do with my skill and more to do with either gear, things on cooldown, or and this is sad, shitty healing.

 

But we could go round and round and round and still no-one would give a shit, so I'm just gonna stop.  What I find most amusing is they gave me a 'practice' area where I can go in and confirm, yup, tanking sucks.   

[Rokal]

Well, FWIW I find tanking in MOP less fun and more of a chore than it was in WOTLK or Cata. There aren't any memorable moments like managing the trash in heroic Halls of Reflection, doing the 'dance' for Ozruk in stonecore (or heck, even jumping to avoid the quake from the giants), or doing any of the gauntlet-style sequences... do MOP dungeons even have those?

Kind of? There are still mechanics like that in MoP dungeons, but they pose so little threat that most people ignore them or never even realize they exist. Stormstout Brewery has a gauntlet on the way to the hopper boss, but it's not an intimidating one. The last boss of Mogu'shan Palace has a "dance" of sorts as you try to avoid all the shit on the ground/weapons flying around, but standing on the shit on the ground can be healed through. If you do challenge modes you start to encounter more memorable trash packs or abilities, but they still aren't great.

[Ironwood]

Wait, WHAT ?

Since Cataclysm ?

Don't I feel like the fucking asshole.

Don't feel too bad, it's not super obvious, if I remember right.

I still can't do this.  Someone help me out.

[Merusk]

IIRC you have to right-click on their picture and it's under there.

[Ironwood]

Yeah, it wasn't.   

[Ragnoros]

If you are trying to play with a friend cross realm, then whoever invites will be the anchor and pull the rest of the party to their realm.

Worth noting that it didn't work in Orggrimar (probably due to number of players) but once we got to isle of time it worked perfectly, with us phasing between realms rather seamlessly and killing rares on both.

Fake Edit: Oh you are talking about phasing. Yeah, theoretically, just have the person do the inviting who is in the phase you want. Maybe wow just hates you?

[SurfD]

If you are trying to play with a friend cross realm, then whoever invites will be the anchor and pull the rest of the party to their realm.

Worth noting that it didn't work in Orggrimar (probably due to number of players) but once we got to isle of time it worked perfectly, with us phasing between realms rather seamlessly and killing rares on both.

Fake Edit: Oh you are talking about phasing. Yeah, theoretically, just have the person do the inviting who is in the phase you want. Maybe wow just hates you?

From what i understand, no Phazing / Xrealm stuff at all works inside major faction cities.  Orgrimmar / Stormwind et al are supposedly server specific only, and even when grouped with other people you will never see them in those cities unless they are from your home realm.

[Fabricated]

Ghostcrawler landed as a "lead designer" at Riot games.

League of Legends players deserve no better. lmao

[Wizgar]

Yeah, it wasn't.  

I still can't find any evidence that this feature exists either. WTF. I can tell you for a stone cold fact that group members aren't automatically pulled into the same phases. I've run afoul of this too many times too recently.

[Nonentity]

Ghostcrawler landed as a "lead designer" at Riot games.

League of Legends players deserve no better. lmao

I wonder if they'll ever get around to "Game 2" or "Game 3" or however many other games they have in development since I last toured the place. League of Legends sort of ate all their time and effort.

PS I enjoyed Cataclysm Heroics more than any MoP heroics, for what it's worth.

[Simond]

Ghostcrawler landed as a "lead designer" at Riot games.

League of Legends players deserve no better. lmao

LoL players are already blaming him for everything, so it must be like home away from home for him.