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Author Topic: Ghostcrawler's Leaving  (Read 16185 times)
Hawkbit
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Reply #140 on: December 10, 2013, 11:20:28 PM

Dude, pop culture is fine and even for most of Cata was not bad.  It was just when you got to "lawl see this zone is ALL indiana jones, wink WINK" is when it got bad.

Was this supposed to be in green?  I wasn't even sure I was playing WoW anymore in Cataclysm.  It was more like a pop culture reference that a game revamp was built around.  I was trying to come up with something that wasn't mentioned in the game, but all I could come up with was 2 legit 2 quit.  Then I remembered Hammertime Orc dance...

Vanilla WoW, for better or worse, was a drastically more serious game in tone.  We were starting to get that back in Wrath, but Cata was a misstep in more ways than one.
SurfD
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Reply #141 on: December 10, 2013, 11:39:20 PM

Dude, pop culture is fine and even for most of Cata was not bad.  It was just when you got to "lawl see this zone is ALL indiana jones, wink WINK" is when it got bad.

Was this supposed to be in green?  I wasn't even sure I was playing WoW anymore in Cataclysm.  It was more like a pop culture reference that a game revamp was built around.  I was trying to come up with something that wasn't mentioned in the game, but all I could come up with was 2 legit 2 quit.  Then I remembered Hammertime Orc dance...

Vanilla WoW, for better or worse, was a drastically more serious game in tone.  We were starting to get that back in Wrath, but Cata was a misstep in more ways than one.
This was the same Vanilla WoW that had an ENTIRE ZONE devoted to BLATANTLY OBVIOUS Nintendo Game Homage Quests and NPCs? Ohhhhh, I see.

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
Ironwood
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Reply #142 on: December 11, 2013, 02:22:39 AM

Vanilla WoW, for better or worse, was a drastically more serious game in tone. 

Don't talk shite.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Lantyssa
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Reply #143 on: December 11, 2013, 11:58:46 AM

WoW's always been bad in that regard and every expansion just found new pop-culture references to add.  Not hard when they have a few years between to gather new ones.

Cata still fucked everything up.  The problem was hidden caps, not that they existed.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Rendakor
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Reply #144 on: December 11, 2013, 01:31:18 PM

This was the same Vanilla WoW that had an ENTIRE ZONE devoted to BLATANTLY OBVIOUS Nintendo Game Homage Quests and NPCs? Ohhhhh, I see.
What zone was that? I remember a lot of pop culture stuff but not a Nintendo zone.

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Fordel
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Reply #145 on: December 11, 2013, 01:40:00 PM

Alliance side Ungoro Crater (or whatever its called) has one giant Legend of Zelda quest, or had, I have no idea if that survived Cata.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Hawkbit
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Like a Klansman in the ghetto.


Reply #146 on: December 11, 2013, 02:02:14 PM

Vanilla WoW, for better or worse, was a drastically more serious game in tone. 

Don't talk shite.

Nah, look at the original north east continent.  Plaguelands, Aeirie Peak, Southshore, Arathi.  There wasn't really any silly content there.  For the most part it was a fairly serious affair.  Kalimdor was pretty serious stuff, too. 

And yes, I totally forgot about the Zelda quest.  At least that was fairly contained to a zone.  The problem was when people liked it and Blizzard devs overcompensated after Vanilla.  Harris Pilton was BC...

FAKE EDIT:  You know what? I'm going to go ahead and prove myself wrong here.   The Vanilla list is a LOT longer than I remembered.  awesome, for real

http://www.wowwiki.com/List_of_pop_culture_references_in_Warcraft
Fordel
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Reply #147 on: December 11, 2013, 02:09:12 PM

You have to keep in mind how OLD WoW is, so a lot of the original references probably aren't anymore.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Mithas
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Reply #148 on: December 11, 2013, 02:11:08 PM

I don't know, none of that stuff ever bothered me. A lot of that list are really minor like names of achievements and such.
Ironwood
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Reply #149 on: December 11, 2013, 02:39:39 PM

You have to keep in mind how OLD WoW is, so a lot of the original references probably aren't anymore.

 Ohhhhh, I see. cry

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Fordel
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Reply #150 on: December 11, 2013, 02:43:44 PM

You were old before WoW existed, it's fine.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Rendakor
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Reply #151 on: December 11, 2013, 08:22:10 PM

Alliance side Ungoro Crater (or whatever its called) has one giant Legend of Zelda quest, or had, I have no idea if that survived Cata.
Ahh; I only had a few Alliance toons and never did Un'goro. That's where Linken's Sword of Mastery (or whatever it was called) came from, I'm guessing? Saw it linked a lot back in the day.

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SurfD
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Reply #152 on: December 11, 2013, 11:25:50 PM

Alliance side Ungoro Crater (or whatever its called) has one giant Legend of Zelda quest, or had, I have no idea if that survived Cata.
Ahh; I only had a few Alliance toons and never did Un'goro. That's where Linken's Sword of Mastery (or whatever it was called) came from, I'm guessing? Saw it linked a lot back in the day.
I think the Linkin quest was actually faction independant.   Could be wrong though.   But there was Linkin and his questline.  There were the Muigron / Luigron NPCs that were having some kind of fight involving one spawning plants out of a pipe that would attack the other (they were completely dressed like Mario / Luigi too).  There was the Kodo named after a Zelda reference, the cave and the power crystals I am pretty sure was a zelda reference also.  That was also the first place you encountered monkeys that dropped empty barrels as a vendor trash item.  I think like 40% of the zone was veiled nintendo references.  The rest was random dinosaur related kill quests and one that was some Beetles reference?  (rescuing Ringo from the volcano area and having to keep him cool).

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
Tannhauser
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Reply #153 on: December 12, 2013, 03:38:06 AM

I don't remember that, but I played Horde and it was a lot of Land of the Lost references.
SurfD
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Reply #154 on: December 12, 2013, 03:55:50 AM

Ahh yeah, The land of the lost guys were the people who gave you most of the dinosaur related quests down there.

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
Xanthippe
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Reply #155 on: December 12, 2013, 09:44:17 AM

I wish I understood tanking enough so that I could follow the arguments, but what I seem to understand is that Ironwood and Paelos say tanking isn't fun anymore and Rokal says "yes it is what's wrong with you." In other words, hello 2 years ago (3?).

I started an undead warlock on a new to me server. My warlock is fun, leveling is a breeze what with dungeons and bgs popping constantly. I haven't hit the MoP content yet, though (no heirlooms). Hunters seem OP again in the bgs like they were just before Wrath launched, and I'm wondering if Blizz is going to do what they did again when whatever the new thing is called launches.

I played a monk to 15 and don't get it. Since I'm not a tanky type, I might switch it over to healing to see if I get that. Maybe I just don't like being a panda.

I want to play either a troll druid or a bloodelf priest next as a healer.

And to what Merusk, Paelos, and some others said about Ghostcrawler - agreed. It's not very seemly for him to try to duck responsibility at this point for decisions he argued for and points of view he espoused that were just plain fucked up and wrong. I'm glad he's gone. Whether anything changes, who knows, it really depends upon who he's replaced by and whether any changes are desired by the team's management.
Paelos
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Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #156 on: December 12, 2013, 09:55:47 AM


I'll just repost this to show what a huge cockholster Ghostcrawler was about Cataclysm. "We hear you don't like this, now STFU and listen, because here's what we want."

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Mithas
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Reply #157 on: December 12, 2013, 10:13:34 AM

I remember that piece. It still pisses me off. They listened to the forum whiners way too much prior to Cataclysm, then had the audacity to say everything was fine, and then ended up dialing it back anyway. I really hope they don't again because the crap that people want on MMO-Champion is absolutely ridiculous.
Rokal
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Reply #158 on: December 12, 2013, 10:59:28 AM

I wish I understood tanking enough so that I could follow the arguments, but what I seem to understand is that Ironwood and Paelos say tanking isn't fun anymore and Rokal says "yes it is what's wrong with you." In other words, hello 2 years ago (3?).

Nah, we stopped talking about active mitigation a while ago and the thread took a weird turn when people started arguing in favor of bringing back complicated defense stats that require out-of-game materials to understand or use correctly and saying that we should return to making healing/tank gear useless for anything besides healing or tanking.

It was like stepping into a twilight zone episode where everyone besides me on the forums argues the game has become too easy/flexible.
apocrypha
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Reply #159 on: December 12, 2013, 11:21:38 AM

I played a monk to 15 and don't get it. Since I'm not a tanky type, I might switch it over to healing to see if I get that. Maybe I just don't like being a panda.
I've levelled a monk to 90 as Mistweaver the entire way - dungeons & pet battles! It's the least favourite of my 4 healers. I think I know what they were trying to do with it - a healer with melee ability - but the implementation simply doesn't fit very well with the dungeon & raid mechanics that WoW has. Being in melee range to generate Chi to heal is a pain in the cobblers! It's so much more complicated and annoying than other healers, for no good reason that I can see.

The most useful thing about monk healing is the 3 min cooldown, Revival, which heals for a massive amount raid-wide. That ability alone often puts me in the top 1 or 2 of healing done, and frankly that's a poor way to make a class useful.

Quote
I want to play either a troll druid or a bloodelf priest next as a healer.

My two least favourite Horde races! All druids should be taurens, sorry!  why so serious?

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Setanta
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Reply #160 on: December 12, 2013, 12:55:25 PM

I'd forgotten that Ghostcrawler post.

Conspiracy theory: Maybe Rokal IS Ghostcrawler :D

BTW: You're still wrong :D

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Ironwood
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Reply #161 on: December 12, 2013, 01:11:04 PM

Man, that post really brought home the Elitist Cuntbag Stench that he actually brought to the forums.  Bravo.

As to the rest of this crap, I'm not arguing about this stat, or that stat, or this gear or that def stat or BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH FUCKING BLAH.

What I'm saying is that tanking, on all the tanks I have (one of every type) feels the same and not fun.  It's just 'hit this dude, mitigate that spike, listen to the raid being cockgobblers, oh look too many stacks of That debuff, beg the other guy to taunt, wank, wank, wank, wank, wank.'

I used to love tanking.  Leaping in.  Stunning.  Pulling.  Chucking Silences to bring 'em rushing.  Shocking packs.  Blasting Packs.  Healing myself or having panic moments.  Shield Block !  Last Stand !  STUN.  STUN.  Shield Smack !  FUCK YOU, I'M INVINCIBLE, GIVE ME ANOTHER ONE, Shit, Not THAT Many !!!

It was great.  It's not now.

Again I'll say :  if it's fine for you, bravo.  Fuck Off.  Go Play rather than SHITTING ON MY HEAD.  But I'm here to say it's not fun.  I heal now.  I HEAL, FFS.  HEALING IS MY WIFES JOB AND IT'S WHAT I DO NOW.

That's just not right.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Fordel
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Reply #162 on: December 12, 2013, 01:16:55 PM

Does she tank instead?

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Wizgar
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Reply #163 on: December 12, 2013, 01:18:41 PM

I'll just repost this to show what a huge cockholster Ghostcrawler was about Cataclysm. "We hear you don't like this, now STFU and listen, because here's what we want."

The part where subscriptions plummeted and he was forced to cave utterly was just so, so, so sweet.
Ironwood
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Reply #164 on: December 12, 2013, 01:19:22 PM


"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Rokal
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Reply #165 on: December 12, 2013, 01:19:26 PM

What I'm saying is that tanking, on all the tanks I have (one of every type) feels the same and not fun.  It's just 'hit this dude, mitigate that spike, listen to the raid being cockgobblers, oh look too many stacks of That debuff, beg the other guy to taunt, wank, wank, wank, wank, wank.'

I used to love tanking.  Leaping in.  Stunning.  Pulling.  Chucking Silences to bring 'em rushing.  Shocking packs.  Blasting Packs.  Healing myself or having panic moments.  Shield Block !  Last Stand !  STUN.  STUN.  Shield Smack !  FUCK YOU, I'M INVINCIBLE, GIVE ME ANOTHER ONE, Shit, Not THAT Many !!!

All those abilities still exist in the game, and all your complaints about tanking have always existed. Getting tired of tank swaps? It sounds like you're just tired of tanking in general, not the new model for tanking specifically.

I heal now.  I HEAL, FFS.  HEALING IS MY WIFES JOB AND IT'S WHAT I DO NOW.

Sexist.
Paelos
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Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #166 on: December 12, 2013, 01:34:00 PM

Let's spin the Rokal Wheel of Excuses!

Sounds like you're just tired of ______
Really, I think you're just burned out
That's just rose-colored glasses
It didn't really happen that way at all
You can still do all that right now
That's not really the problem

CPA, Sports blogger, Mount and Blade enthusiast
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Rokal
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Reply #167 on: December 12, 2013, 01:47:50 PM

There is really no other way to interpret Ironwoods post, which is mostly (understandable) complaints about aspects of tanking that have always existed.

Also, only half of those are approved catch-phrases. And it's not a wheel.
Ironwood
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Reply #168 on: December 12, 2013, 01:50:05 PM

All those abilities still exist in the game, and all your complaints about tanking have always existed. Getting tired of tank swaps? It sounds like you're just tired of tanking in general, not the new model for tanking specifically.

 Facepalm

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Rokal
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Reply #169 on: December 12, 2013, 03:46:56 PM

I'll just repost [Cataclysm Dungeon Blog from Ghostcrawler] to show what a huge cockholster Ghostcrawler was about Cataclysm. "We hear you don't like this, now STFU and listen, because here's what we want."

Your post couldn't possibly have been more timely. Now that Ghostcrawler is gone the devs can finally move towards the dungeon design you all wanted that he had been holding the game back from!

Quote from: WoW Forums
I’d like to start out by saying that we’re completely aware of the demand from the community for dungeons at a very high difficulty level.

As you know, WoD will (re)introduce the normal and heroic difficulties for 5man's at max level, which is already a very nice change in my opinion.

There are players who have been playing WoW for a very long time, they’re extremely skilled and will only be satisfied with the highest level of difficulty that we throw at them, that’s “perfect entertainment” for this type of players.

We also know that not everyone can raid in very high difficulty environments due to its big time commitment. Sometimes life changes, and suddenly instead of 3-4 hours every 2 days, some of these players will only have 1 or 2 hours, and that makes shorter/smaller instances with the same difficulty level as “mythic” an extremely appealing concept.

Challenge modes will probably be interesting for some of these players, but we also know that when people talk about TBC heroic 5man difficulty levels, they’re not talking about mindless zerg/rush timed runs. They’re talking about planning, strategy, CC, improvisation, randomness and sheer insane mobs/bosses power, but the “timed” part is still an important concept in game design to keep everyone on their toes.

We know all that, and we’re doing our very best to provide the most diverse content we can for the next expansion.

Your feedback can change a lot of things, just keep providing it and we’ll be sure to recognize your needs, devs are very interested in high quality feedback, and it can go a long way in changing some priorities during the development of WoD.

Having said that, the current planned difficulty scheme for 5mans at max level is Normal, Heroic and Challenge mode. Right off the bat, we can clearly say that WoD heroics will be much harder than MoP heroics.

Now, we’re not actually planning in making them as hard as the hardest heroics of all time, like the hardest from TBC, or GB and Stonecore from Cata, but nothing is set in stone yet, we’re still thinking about what will be the right difficulty level for anything WoD, and your continued feedback will definitely help us find that elusive sweet spot for a perfect tiered difficulty system.

We also think that we can rework a little bit the whole concept of challenge modes, right now people tend to think about them as purely timed runs, but they can be so much more than that.

I mean, the “timed part” doesn’t necessarily have to imply disregard for control and strategy; hopefully, we’ll be able to make challenge modes much more compelling to the highest skilled players out there, especially those that can’t raid but want to experience equivalent difficulty content to mythic raids in a 5man environment.

If you have any particular views on the subject, I’d love to hear what would be the “perfect challenge mode” for you, specifically in regards to reward structure and gameplay philosophy concepts.

Popcorn
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 04:38:08 PM by Rokal »
Simond
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Reply #170 on: December 12, 2013, 04:50:58 PM

But I thought every decision like that was solely the result of Ghostcrawler's personal vendetta against Paelos?

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Paelos
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Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #171 on: December 12, 2013, 05:17:47 PM

Despite what Ingmar says, he's one of those people I think deserved to be fired long ago. Not everything should be blamed on him, but the systems he put in place for things like tanking have now made tanking into something even old tanks don't want to do. Now we just need to get rid of Metzen and Chilton, and we're in solid shape.

I reiterate. This shit was bound to still happen with Chilton at the helm. GC going is just part 1 of a 3 part deal I want.

CPA, Sports blogger, Mount and Blade enthusiast
Braves by the Numbers, my sports blog
Wizgar
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Reply #172 on: December 12, 2013, 08:07:45 PM

Okay let's be fair, Panda heroics weren't just easy, they were laughable. There's a lot of room to toughen them up without going overboard and they seem to know that.
Rokal
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Reply #173 on: December 12, 2013, 08:47:45 PM

They've given Vortex Pinnacle pre-nerf as the example of the difficulty they are shooting for, so Cata-level difficulty is about right.

They're crazy if they'll planning on allowing LFG for heroics again or making it a regular part of the gear path.
Merusk
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Reply #174 on: December 12, 2013, 09:05:42 PM

Hear that sound?  That's the sound of my wallet trying to close itself even harder.

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