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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: Heroes of the Storm [a.k.a Blizzard DoTA] 0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Heroes of the Storm [a.k.a Blizzard DoTA]  (Read 139322 times)
Merusk
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Reply #350 on: January 27, 2015, 12:53:44 PM

Yeah, I can't see Nova as anything but fairly weak. She's got to stay hidden because she's so fragile.  Stealth is great for teams that work together but that's no good in a PUG.

I play Sonya primarily since I refuse to compete. She's been great on the PVE side of things, despite starting a bit weaker than other warriors I've played.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Kail
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Reply #351 on: January 27, 2015, 04:07:54 PM

Yeah, I can't see Nova as anything but fairly weak. She's got to stay hidden because she's so fragile.  Stealth is great for teams that work together but that's no good in a PUG.

I generally see her as the opposite: useful for picking off people who wander off, so super lethal in pubs or versus newbies, but pretty much useless in any kind of coordinated play.

What puzzles me is Brightwing.  I keep hearing about how OP Brightwing-Stitches-Tychus is, and...  Well, Stitches I can kind of see, given how up and down Pudge has been in Dota, and Tychus has been top tier for months, but Brightwing?  The highest winrate of any hero according to HotsLogs, but I always feel so ineffectual on her.  I don't lose more often, as far as I can tell, but when we win it's not like I ever go "thank God I was there or we would surely have lost XYZ fight." She can teleport around the map and when she arives... do pretty much jack all.  Her Q is OK, but hard to aim and unreliable for anything other than sieging.  Her Polymorph is nice when it's talented, but when it's untalented (which it is for like 75% of the game usually) it doesn't slow or damage or anything, I keep wishing for a stun or something.  And I have no idea how effective her E is, I just cast it on cooldown in every fight and I have no idea if it works or how much it helps or anything.  Her passive heal is nice, but it's so slow that outside of laning I'd rather have almost any other healer in the game.  And her ults are really situational at best.  Blink Heal is a short range teleport and a heal so weak I almost always just use the charges for positioning.  Emerald Wind forces you to walk in to the middle of the enemy team if you want to use it offensively, and even then it's just an AoE displace with some mediocre damage.  I guess she must be powerful but I have no idea why, outside of Polymorph being nice.
Nebu
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Reply #352 on: January 27, 2015, 04:31:53 PM

What puzzles me is Brightwing.

1. She can appear anywhere on the map to heal someone.
2. Her healing is pretty passive and requires no action but proximity.
3. Flash heal adds to healing AND mobility.
4. She can polymorph one target, hit rewind, and polymorph a second.  That's 2 people out of a teamfight in about 2s.  
5. Her shield is a speed boost as well.  It's a great saver in a pinch.

Her whole kit is solid with no real holes and she's a bitch to catch when escaping.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Rasix
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Reply #353 on: January 27, 2015, 04:51:39 PM

That's a disgusting kit on a support. It's like a Wisp/Lulu/Zilean/Soraka/Karma baby.  Just give her some sort of hook and call it a day.

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Nebu
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Reply #354 on: January 27, 2015, 05:02:12 PM

That's a disgusting kit on a support. It's like a Wisp/Lulu/Zilean/Soraka/Karma baby.  Just give her some sort of hook and call it a day.

What's funny is that she's hardly OP at all compared to Stitches.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Sophismata
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Reply #355 on: January 27, 2015, 11:45:44 PM

Don't underestimate the passive healing. It means even shit players end up contributing, and as an AoE heal it is phenomenal during pushes (as it heals creeps and mercs).

Polymorph may not feel like much, but in a game so heavily reliant on heroes doing things a 2 sec disable is amazing. Kerrigan, Thrall and Illidan, for example, all rely on dealing damage to increase their health or effective health.

"You finally did it, you magnificent bastards. You went so nerd that even I don't know WTF you're talking about anymore. I salute you." - WindupAtheist
Kail
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Reply #356 on: January 28, 2015, 01:53:05 AM

Don't underestimate the passive healing. It means even shit players end up contributing, and as an AoE heal it is phenomenal during pushes (as it heals creeps and mercs).

Ooh, does it?  I was not aware, tooltip just mentions heroes.  That is pretty vicious, then.

Her whole kit is solid with no real holes and she's a bitch to catch when escaping.

Maybe my issue is just that most of the games I've played with her have been bot matches.  I usually play bots until I feel like I "get" a hero but that doesn't give you much experience with how the hero feels when you're on the defensive.
Nebu
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Reply #357 on: January 29, 2015, 12:38:49 PM

An interesting article about MOBAs with some reference to HotS

This quote may encapsulate the feelings of many...

Quote
I've had access to HotS since the earliest days of the technical alpha, and played it intermittently at every stage of its development to date. I like it but don't love it: I appreciate its value to people looking for a light and accessible way into the genre, but having been swimming in the deep end for so long (sic having been a DOTA 2 player) I don't see myself investing a considerable amount of time into it.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Malakili
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Reply #358 on: January 29, 2015, 12:50:34 PM

My problem, from a gameplay standpoint, is that it kind of splits the difference awkwardly, as I have said.  It clearly wants to be that "shallow end," but in practice the way they've streamlined things like experience points and objectives actually means you are possibly even more reliant on your team for your fun.  So you end up in a similar position with regard to it being fun or dreadful as all the other MOBAs.  The only advantage is that you are only suffering for 15-20 minutes if you get into one of those awful games.

I could get behind the idea of a MOBA aiming at streamlined gameplay and 20 minute games, but if I'm ultimately running into the same frustrations as the others I don't see the point.
Nebu
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Reply #359 on: January 29, 2015, 12:54:59 PM

I could get behind the idea of a MOBA aiming at streamlined gameplay and 20 minute games, but if I'm ultimately running into the same frustrations as the others I don't see the point.

The more that I play, the more I understand your point.  Large differences in skill and frequent AFK players are making the "team" aspects a challenge.  If I can find 4 friends to group with regularly, I could see this as being my game of choice for a few months.  Playing solo seems to be a huge crapshoot in terms of team quality.  You can have an amazing team one game and two AFK players the next. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
luckton
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Reply #360 on: January 29, 2015, 01:00:00 PM

The rumor mill churns with word that Heroes isn't getting the support it needs to stay afloat. Depending on how the beta goes, they may scrap/drawing-board the thing until they work out some of the issues.

I want to enjoy this as much as I enjoy LoL, but I think it's almost too simple for my taste. While I enjoy not having to worry about last-hitting mobs, I miss being able to purchase items and tune my character in different ways.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Merusk
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Reply #361 on: January 29, 2015, 02:34:44 PM

Still like it over LoL. Still playing PvE.  Fuck relying on matchmaking to not screw me when going against other players. WoT taught me that and I'm done with it.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Kail
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Reply #362 on: January 29, 2015, 03:44:08 PM

Still like it over LoL. Still playing PvE.  Fuck relying on matchmaking to not screw me when going against other players. WoT taught me that and I'm done with it.

This is pretty much me exactly.  If we ever get enough F13 presence to start rolling as 5-mans I'd love to give it a shot, but the matchmaking in this game is ridiculous, and it's gotten worse with the founders pack.  I am constantly getting matched with people playing Lurkablo on the Golden Cyberwolf mount which always means someone who will march up to the enemy towers, right click on them, and then die.  At least in co-op I can still win, "quick match" is just infuriating.  Maybe ranked is better, given the restrictions to enter, I haven't checked, but every night I have a stream on in the background of pro players and it LOOKS like they're going in as premade groups of 5 and still being matched up with random pub newbies, so I'm not super eager to dip my toe in to that pool.
Nebu
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Reply #363 on: January 29, 2015, 04:33:31 PM

My Battle.net name is Karp#1741

Feel free to add me or send invites if you see me on.  I'm competent, but no 19 year old on crack.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Sophismata
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Reply #364 on: January 29, 2015, 08:15:53 PM

Barring one absolute crushing on the golem map (they pushed core with the first golem, my team had no clue how to play or lane) it hasn't been too bad. I guess I'm out of the quick play retard bracket. I had a very nice high-level game where I got put into a Chinese 4-man and it was all very professional. No text communication but teamwork was strong and the quality of play was excellent. The enemy team was also on the ball and it was a fantastic game despite the (unfortunate) loss.

"You finally did it, you magnificent bastards. You went so nerd that even I don't know WTF you're talking about anymore. I salute you." - WindupAtheist
Job601
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Reply #365 on: January 29, 2015, 09:21:14 PM

I've probably played 30-40 games now, winning around 2 out of 3 overall, and I feel like the matchmaker is starting to give me less total idiots.  It can be frustrating even with competent players, because the difficult strategic decisions in this game come very early (how many players to push and how many to go for objectives, etc., which can be different on different maps) but nothing you do is going to work unless everyone is committed.
Nebu
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Reply #366 on: January 29, 2015, 11:03:56 PM

My greatest frustrations are tanks that won't initiate and dps that run away too soon.  Team fights are an all-in proposition.  If you flinch, it is going to cost you the fight.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Kail
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Reply #367 on: January 30, 2015, 10:29:22 AM

My Battle.net name is Karp#1741

Feel free to add me or send invites if you see me on.  I'm competent, but no 19 year old on crack.

Ok, I think I added you.  Apparently I'm Kail#1457
Draegan
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Reply #368 on: January 30, 2015, 12:47:37 PM

I've been playing this a lot in the last week due to my Brother in Law wanting to wait a while before we start season 5 in LOL. (He has a newborn and needs to practice and can't really play for 40-60m chunks)

It's actually kind of fun. I enjoy it specifically for the quick games. I've been playing Abathur for a few days, kind of fun.  While this game is relatively simple, a few tweaks on how you gain experience could make it a fun game. One tweak I would do is increase/decrease the amount of xp your team gets depending on the amount of people in the area. It would allow for my diversity in your tactics instead of constantly striving to be a 5v5 game.
Setanta
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Reply #369 on: January 30, 2015, 02:42:50 PM

The rumor mill churns with word that Heroes isn't getting the support it needs to stay afloat. Depending on how the beta goes, they may scrap/drawing-board the thing until they work out some of the issues.

Got a source for that? It seems to be going ok, I can get into a game within 3 minutes.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
Draegan
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Reply #370 on: January 30, 2015, 03:12:03 PM

Yeah, I haven't seen that any where. Blizzard wouldn't start taking money for something like this and dump it.
Trippy
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Reply #371 on: January 30, 2015, 03:32:23 PM

The rumor mill churns with word that Heroes isn't getting the support it needs to stay afloat. Depending on how the beta goes, they may scrap/drawing-board the thing until they work out some of the issues.
Got a source for that? It seems to be going ok, I can get into a game within 3 minutes.
There's this "insider":

http://firstadopter.tumblr.com/post/109489028909/exclusive-activision-blizzard-insider-says
Paelos
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Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #372 on: January 30, 2015, 05:43:38 PM

Well one of those things would be blatantly obvious because Blizzard would release the numbers about Hearthstone. They have no reason to hide those facts from investors. Quite the opposite.

I also don't believe the art assets thing. Mostly because my friend who moved from Blizzard to another company was an art guy, and that's not the impression I got. If anything they were trying to rejigger the art departments on the game.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Trippy
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Reply #373 on: January 30, 2015, 05:52:36 PM

I believe the art asset thing. I know WoW had issues creating assets fast enough. Many of the big video game companies have had offices/studios in China making art assets for some time now.
Merusk
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Reply #374 on: January 30, 2015, 05:53:47 PM

Unapproved and anonymous sources are ALWAYS the best ones!

Yeah, I haven't seen that any where. Blizzard wouldn't start taking money for something like this and dump it.

Which Blizzard? The one Pardo was a part of or the one he "left" and all the DudeBros are running?

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Paelos
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Reply #375 on: January 30, 2015, 05:58:05 PM

I believe the art asset thing. I know WoW had issues creating assets fast enough. Many of the big video game companies have had offices/studios in China making art assets for some time now.

Undoubtedly. They were trying to move him from an area he liked to an area he hated, so it's not out of the realm. Still, they took longer than ever to get this out. You'd think they'd have figured out, OH YEAH ART! by now.

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Ginaz
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Reply #376 on: January 31, 2015, 04:29:08 PM

I've been playing this a bit more and its starting to grow on me.  I'm only doing co-op right now because I'm fairly new to MOBAs and don't want to go straight into the deep end against other players.  BNet ID is Ginaz1406 if anyone wants to play some games against the AI.
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #377 on: February 09, 2015, 07:40:28 AM

Got into the beta last week and HO LEE FUK this game is exactly as balanced as I thought a blizzard pvp game would be.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Nebu
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Reply #378 on: February 09, 2015, 08:20:19 AM

Got into the beta last week and HO LEE FUK this game is exactly as balanced as I thought a blizzard pvp game would be.

Stitches, Thrall, Tychus, and Brightwing are the biggest culprits.  I'm surprised that there aren't hero bans in Ranked.  That would fix a lot.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 08:49:28 AM by Nebu »

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Sophismata
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Reply #379 on: February 09, 2015, 01:54:56 PM

Odd, I don't find Thrall to be a problem outside his really impactful ults.

"You finally did it, you magnificent bastards. You went so nerd that even I don't know WTF you're talking about anymore. I salute you." - WindupAtheist
Kail
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Reply #380 on: February 09, 2015, 03:35:39 PM

I'm surprised that there aren't hero bans in Ranked.  That would fix a lot.

People are already freaking out over the requirement that you own ten heroes to play ranked.  If we added two bans per team, they'd have to increase that number to fourteen, and I'm pretty sure that would open a rift in space and time allowing the demon army to enter our world.

I'm not sure exactly how "serious" ranked is anyway right now.  Anecdotal evidence and all that, but from the numbers I've seen quoted you can get rank 1 with a 50% win rate, it just takes a while, so achieving max rank is basically matchmaker RNG.  The idea that they're throwing premades in the same pool as solo queue kind of kills it anyway. I suspect they're planning on making their upcoming "Team League" their SRS BZNS mode.  But who knows at this point.

Lost Vikings supposed to come out tomorrow, looking forward to that.
Nebu
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Reply #381 on: February 09, 2015, 04:16:29 PM

Ranked is better quality play than Quick matches in general.  The problem is that you always see the same 10-12 heroes every match.  That's what needs to be addressed.  There are obvious play choices in the current meta. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
kaid
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Reply #382 on: February 10, 2015, 12:44:32 PM

Ranked is better quality play than Quick matches in general.  The problem is that you always see the same 10-12 heroes every match.  That's what needs to be addressed.  There are obvious play choices in the current meta. 


Although honestly even games like lol with a ton of champions still kinda tends towards a very small subset being used in ranked games I think that is likely a combination of challenges of balancing a lot of heroes leads to outliers and people being sheep if they see something work then it gets hardened into do this or you are not playing correctly which lessens odd ball team comps.
Sophismata
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Reply #383 on: February 10, 2015, 12:54:14 PM

Still, having played LoL and DotA (the first) as well as HotS; I feel that in HotS those good heroes are just so much better - and without items, gankers etc there is no reason to pick substandard heroes.

"You finally did it, you magnificent bastards. You went so nerd that even I don't know WTF you're talking about anymore. I salute you." - WindupAtheist
Kail
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Reply #384 on: February 10, 2015, 02:58:22 PM

At least the patch changes look good, haven't tested them all yet.  Arthas loses envenom, Brightwing gets a longer cooldown on her teleport, Tychus' odin got completely revamped (now it's just a damage boost, not a survivability one), Stitches got gorge nerfed by 50% and a minor cooldown increase on his hook.  Stitches might still be a bit iffy, but on paper at least the changes look good without completely gutting the characters.

Chen looks like he got nerfed kind of bad, though, not sure if I agree with that.  Before, he was kind of useless for anything but soaking damage until he got combination attack, at which point he was a beast.  So, they nerfed combination attack but didn't buff his early game.  Pressure point no longer roots (just slows), chug is moved way the hell out to level 16, ugh.  I haven't played him yet but it doesn't look good to me.

Thrall was barely tickled, Tyrael got nerfed slightly looks like, Raynor's remake removed everything I liked about the character, Murky was hit pretty bad (I guess he was secretly OP?  Or something?).

Lost vikings are weird to play as, so far.  They remind me a lot of Meepo from Dota, but they don't have any basic abilities unless you talent them.  Very micro heavy, I think they'll probably be too tricky for me to keep track of in a real game, but still fun for casual play.
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