Heroes of the Storm [a.k.a Blizzard DoTA]

[Trippy]

Hey!  Do YOU want to play Heroes of the Storm, but haven't recieved a beta invite yet?  How do you feel about paying $40 to beta test a game that will be free to play when it launches?  Then Blizzard has the solution for you!

In other news, they just hit closed beta last week and introduced ranked play on the same day they released Thrall.  Those of you with weak hearts may want to sit down for this shocking news, but he's considered kind of OP.

That's one of the things that's keeping me from playing even though I'm the target audience -- it's way too expensive to acquire all the heroes in the game.

Edit: add quote cause new page

[Nebu]

That's one of the things that's keeping me from playing even though I'm the target audience -- it's way too expensive to acquire all the heroes in the game.

Edit: add quote cause new page

It's pretty easy to obtain the heroes during normal play.  You get gold (the currency to buy heroes) through normal play, achieving level 5 in each hero, and with daily quests.  By the time you open ranked play, you'll easily have 10 or so heroes.  It's really no different than LoL, just a tad slower to encourage you to buy boosters.

[schild]

Also it sucks compared to LoL unless they made major strides in the feel of the game.

[Falconeer]

One thing you thought Blizzard was never going to resort to was Early Access, Founder packages and paid betas.

[Rendakor]

If the Early Access gave you all characters unlocked like SMITE's one time fee option does, it wouldn't be a bad deal.

[Trippy]

One thing you thought Blizzard was never going to resort to was Early Access, Founder packages and paid betas.

They did the same with Hearthstone.

[Trippy]

If the Early Access gave you all characters unlocked like SMITE's one time fee option does, it wouldn't be a bad deal.

Yeah I would totally do that assuming it was a reasonable price for all heroes (not this ~$10 per hero stuff).

[Trippy]

Also it sucks compared to LoL unless they made major strides in the feel of the game.

No it still totally sucks

But it's great for casuals. I dread playing any of the "serious" MOBAs cause of the inevitable abuse that's going to be heaped on me for being such a n00b.

[Nebu]

Also it sucks compared to LoL unless they made major strides in the feel of the game.

I enjoy it.  It's all the stuff I liked about LoL without all of the nonsense I didn't (warding, last hitting, item buying).  Could be why I only played ARAM in LoL. 

[Rasix]

But it's great for casuals. I dread playing any of the "serious" MOBAs cause of the inevitable abuse that's going to be heaped on me for being such a n00b.

I'd think an environment where there is more focus on objective team play is going to exacerbate the negativity.  Of course it if never hits critical mass, you may not see it.  

Eh, founders packs.  Fuck this nonsense.

[Nebu]

I'd think an environment where there is more focus on objective team play is going to exacerbate the negativity.  

That's very true.  Because the toxic LoL community still believes they are right about it being the other guy's fault when they lost.  

The LoL community was the worst I've experienced in any game that I've played.  Considering the sheer number of online games that I've played, that's noteworthy.

[Kail]

I'd think an environment where there is more focus on objective team play is going to exacerbate the negativity.  Of course it if never hits critical mass, you may not see it.  

A lot of the mechanics in HotS are supposed to be counters to that.  For example, the entire team is the same level, so if one guy gets shut down early on, he's not going to be a useless load for the entire rest of the game.  There's no last hitting, so no whining about people "stealing" your kills.  There's no cross team chat, just a set of preset emotes.  That kind of thing.  In general, I've found the community to be a lot better than other games in this genre, though that may just be because the population has been pretty small so far.

[Falconeer]

One thing you thought Blizzard was never going to resort to was Early Access, Founder packages and paid betas.

They did the same with Hearthstone.

Oh, I didn't know.

[Paelos]

Hey!  Do YOU want to play Heroes of the Storm, but haven't recieved a beta invite yet?  How do you feel about paying $40 to beta test a game that will be free to play when it launches?  Then Blizzard has the solution for you!

In other news, they just hit closed beta last week and introduced ranked play on the same day they released Thrall.  Those of you with weak hearts may want to sit down for this shocking news, but he's considered kind of OP.

Yeah this is a dumb waste of money.

[HaemishM]

Whichever asshole started this Founder's Pack nonsense for F2P games really needs to be punched in the dick. Was that Mechwarrior?

[Malakili]

I'd think an environment where there is more focus on objective team play is going to exacerbate the negativity.  Of course it if never hits critical mass, you may not see it.  

A lot of the mechanics in HotS are supposed to be counters to that.  For example, the entire team is the same level, so if one guy gets shut down early on, he's not going to be a useless load for the entire rest of the game.  There's no last hitting, so no whining about people "stealing" your kills.  There's no cross team chat, just a set of preset emotes.  That kind of thing.  In general, I've found the community to be a lot better than other games in this genre, though that may just be because the population has been pretty small so far.

It hasn't been as negative as LoL in my experience, but there has been some.  But more to the point, I agree that the focus on objective team play actually does make it worse in some ways for casual play.  If you have one guy who refuses to do the objective, then you. are. fucked.  There is just no way to win 4v5 engagements a lot of the time.  If you've got one guy who just doesn't pay attention to what's going on the map and does whatever he wants, it makes the game incredibly frustrating, and at least in a game like LoL you can say to yourself "If we hold this together long enougha nd I farm enough gold, maybe I can carry us out of this mess."  Nope, in HotS you just lose and basically no amount of individual skill or effort can make up for it.

[Falconeer]

Whichever asshole started this Founder's Pack nonsense for F2P games really needs to be punched in the dick. Was that Mechwarrior?

I was trying to remember that myself, and I came to the same conclusion. MechWarrior is the first one I can remember, at some point in early 2012. But Kickstarter was already a thing, so chances are MechWarrior was just elaborating on the formula somehow.

[schild]

The LoL community was the worst I've experienced in any game that I've played.

People say this. But no community is as bad as high school and middle school. And those are nothing but shitty games designed by bureaucrats.

Also, Counterstrike is poisonous in a way LoL can never be. Maybe not anymore, but ugh. Also, DOTA2 and that other shit (HoN) got all the REAL buttheads. LoL is just tryhard morons.

[schild]

Whichever asshole started this Founder's Pack nonsense for F2P games really needs to be punched in the dick. Was that Mechwarrior?

I was trying to remember that myself, and I came to the same conclusion. MechWarrior is the first one I can remember, at some point in early 2012. But Kickstarter was already a thing, so chances are MechWarrior was just elaborating on the formula somehow.

It's safe to blame Korea. I'm sure they're the first. Maple Story or some shit. Who knows.

[HaemishM]

As bad as LoL was, it took a while for me to see the real assholes. HoN was full of shitheads from the off.

[Rasix]

I knew HoN was bad when some youtube video game news guy said that he played HoN but wouldn't play with viewers unless their elo was "above 1350" or some nonsense.  Most LoL pros that came from that scene said BM and trolling were just part of it and the worst of LoL doesn't even approach it.

I may try this if the games are short enough.  One aspect that has kept me from getting back into LoL or even getting serious about DOTA2 are the game lengths. 

[Kail]

I may try this if the games are short enough.  One aspect that has kept me from getting back into LoL or even getting serious about DOTA2 are the game lengths. 

Average game length is about 18 to 23 minutes, as a rough estimate.

[Merusk]

Whichever asshole started this Founder's Pack nonsense for F2P games really needs to be punched in the dick. Was that Mechwarrior?

I was trying to remember that myself, and I came to the same conclusion. MechWarrior is the first one I can remember, at some point in early 2012. But Kickstarter was already a thing, so chances are MechWarrior was just elaborating on the formula somehow.

Star Trek Online in 2010 and Lord of the Rings before that. Lifetime subs were called founders, IIRC.

HOTS is fun for me because of the Co-Op mode. I couldn't stand LOL or DOTA because I couldn't just veg into the game. I had to be up on the strats, the counters, as twitchy and edgy as a kid half my age, amped up on caffeine and with 16-20 more hours in a day to blow on practicing than I have.  Don't play to that level and you get abused.

Fuck that noise.

I'll probably never play a vs. human match in HOTS and continue to have a good time. I dropped cash on the "founder" pack back at Christmas when it was in alpha and half the price that it is now. No regrets.  I'll farm up gold for the characters I want in time, maybe blow some bucks on skins if I feel like it.

As I said before, if this is what Hearthstone players see in that game over M:TG then I get why they play it. This is more fun if you're only casually into the game type.

[Setanta]

Agreed - I bought the starter pack in alpha and now have a full set of heroes (the level 5 reward per char is useful), lashed out a bit of cash on a few characters I found myself enjoying from the rotation and purchased Jaina and Thrall. Trying not to spend on skins is hard (bought Pyjamatha" as I love playing him and the skin is too cute) and I'm saving up for the piggy bank mount... no idea why :D

The game is just lighthearted good fun compared to other mobas - I really enjoy this and Smite over LoL Dota2 and Hon

[lamaros]

The LoL community was the worst I've experienced in any game that I've played.

People say this. But no community is as bad as high school and middle school. And those are nothing but shitty games designed by bureaucrats.

Also, Counterstrike is poisonous in a way LoL can never be. Maybe not anymore, but ugh. Also, DOTA2 and that other shit (HoN) got all the REAL buttheads. LoL is just tryhard morons.

CS isn't that bad anymore unless you are really crap and get ranked with the 12 year olds, or play the casual modes. But why would you do that?

You get the odd crap game but most of mine have been pretty good. I do play with friends half the time, which makes it even better.

[Sophismata]

The pricing of HotS is stupidly high, both in gold and money. I've gotten almost every hero to level 5 (barring 2) and I only have had enough money to purchase 6 heroes I actually wanted. That's not enough to play ranked, which requires 10.

The game is fun as long as no-one on your team is incompetent. There are some balance issues, but they are gradually getting resolved (last patch removed the Resurgence talent, which was great).

I've learned to only play assassins where-ever possible in pub games, because most bad players play assassins. There are few things more frustrating than your opponents continually escaping on ≤10% HP. A team that doesn't have the aggression to capitalise on their opponents mistakes will have major issues making a comeback if they lose the lead.

[Malakili]

Yeah, the pricing is really what is going to turn me away the most.  I was sure that the free hero rotation would count towards your 10 for draft, but since it does not, I found my will to play drop off dramatically.  There is some fun to be had in this game, but it seems like you are going to have to drop cash if you really want to have access to more than the cheapest heroes.

[Nebu]

Yeah, the pricing is really what is going to turn me away the most.  I was sure that the free hero rotation would count towards your 10 for draft, but since it does not, I found my will to play drop off dramatically.  There is some fun to be had in this game, but it seems like you are going to have to drop cash if you really want to have access to more than the cheapest heroes.

Not true at all.  I own several of the most expensive heroes and haven't spent a penny while playing rather casually.  You just have to be patient and save for those heroes that you really want to play.  By the time you've mastered playing your shiny new hero, you'll have enough to buy another. 

Funny side note: I group with a guy named Malakili in HotS.  I thought it was you until he told me he had never heard of f13.

[Malakili]

Hah.  That's funny I don't use that name on battle.net. I think my info is in the Diablo 3 forum if you want to play.

Anyway, part of my problem is that I don't do daily quests, I guess.  My gold income would probably be a lot higher if I actively tried to finish those.

[Job601]

I really like this game, especially the fast pace and short games.  Compared to LoL (where I'm Gold III), there are less games where I feel like we're so far behind that we can't do anything, although it is frustrating to go back to playing with people who won't communicate and don't have any idea what to do. 

The gold income is frustratingly low. If you only do your daily quests and win half the time, you'll earn an average of 250 gold a day.  That gets you the cheapest 2000 gold heroes at a rate of just under one a week, which seems reasonable, but it would take a month to get a 7000 gold hero and even longer for the more expensive tiers.  I understand that games like this are intended to be played for a long time, maybe years, and that it wouldn't be fun to be able to buy everything right away, but a month is  long time to play every single day.  They could double gold income and players would still be tempted to spend money to skip the grind.

[Malakili]

that it wouldn't be fun to be able to buy everything right away

Yeah, what could possibly be fun about having access to all the heroes? 

[Rasix]

I would have preferred a DOTA2 approach.  Cosmetics for cash, all heroes/champs/gods/whatever else available.   Ohh well. 

I don't like the LoL approach.  It makes low level play stagnant and repetitive.  You get to play unimaginative champs with unimaginative kits/visuals repeatedly to unlock something at a glacial pace.

[Job601]

Yeah, what could possibly be fun about having access to all the heroes? 

I take your point, but I do think part of the (maybe peverse) fun of f2p games is having a goal, saving up for it, and getting it.   

[Rendakor]

Yeah, what could possibly be fun about having access to all the heroes? 

I take your point, but I do think part of the (maybe peverse) fun of f2p games is having a goal, saving up for it, and getting it.   

That's what skins and such are for.

[Malakili]

Yeah, what could possibly be fun about having access to all the heroes? 

I take your point, but I do think part of the (maybe peverse) fun of f2p games is having a goal, saving up for it, and getting it.   

I just can't relate to this.