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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: Heroes of the Storm [a.k.a Blizzard DoTA] 0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Heroes of the Storm [a.k.a Blizzard DoTA]  (Read 139333 times)
Malakili
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Reply #245 on: June 18, 2014, 02:09:25 PM

Hearthstone was also going into a market with a lot less established competition.  Magic Online has some regular streamers, and there are paper Magic tournament streams with some regularity.  But it's not caught fire as an online thing.

Hearthstone is going into a genre that people already have "their" game that they like.  LoL, DOTA, make your pick.  Although a lot of people want something a bit more casual friendly, they've got a LOT more competition in the MOBA genre than they did in the card game genre.
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Reply #246 on: June 18, 2014, 02:41:25 PM

Anyone have a screenshot of the early F&F Streams from Diablo 3? Pretty sure they had 10s of thousands of people watching them.

Earliness of development has nothing to do with popularity, I don't think. In fact, if anything, more people should be watching since the don't have access.
Malakili
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Reply #247 on: June 18, 2014, 02:57:44 PM

Anyone have a screenshot of the early F&F Streams from Diablo 3? Pretty sure they had 10s of thousands of people watching them.

Earliness of development has nothing to do with popularity, I don't think. In fact, if anything, more people should be watching since the don't have access.

They did.  Hell, even after all the problems D3 had the Reapers of Souls beta got above 10k sometimes.

HotS isn't catching people's attention and the game is plenty far enough into development that it should be by now. 
Ingmar
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Reply #248 on: June 18, 2014, 03:03:46 PM

D3 had much more of a marketing push behind it. I think that if anything might be the most damning thing here; they'd push it harder if they really thought they had something.

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Malakili
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Reply #249 on: June 18, 2014, 03:12:48 PM

Perhaps.  I mean, I'd be interested to hear from someone who has tried it and really liked it. There's probably an audience out there.

My general feeling has been it's bland and uninteresting.  I've played maybe 10 matches against real people.  It just doesn't grab me.  It's slick, it's polished, the gameplay feels decent.  But I feel no compulsion to actually play it as opposed to something else.
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Reply #250 on: June 18, 2014, 04:10:11 PM

In contrast LOL has ~115,000, Hearthstone has ~35,000, and DoTA2 has ~27,000 viewers right now

To be fair, HotS hasn't actually released yet (unless I missed it, in which case never mind).  Most of the big games on Twitch tend to be competitive multiplayer deals, where watching the top players can show you how to play.  That goes away when you can't play the game, and the "competition" is mostly pretty minor.  Game popularity and viewership tend to rise together, so I really expect more people to watch when the game is released "for reals".  Not sure if it will reach anything close to Hearthstone levels, though, which might be a problem for long term support of the game.

Perhaps they're not the best comparison, but in contrast to other Blizzard titles this is pulling fewer viewers than WCIII and Brood War, not to mention a ton of single player games that aren't exactly designed from the ground up to be spectator-friendly e-sport type things. Also, while it is in F+F Alpha, the people who have access are some of the people who have the largest viewer-bases, so that should in theory bloat HoTS twitch numbers to an extent, but none of them are playing it anymore, and nobody's watching.

I don't think twitch is a perfect metric, but it's quite an important one currently. I was certainly surprised how far down the list of games I had to go to find HoTS.

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Reply #251 on: June 18, 2014, 05:47:54 PM

The entire game is just Blizzard looking at LoL, then looking at Dota2, then going "holy shit we missed the boat, the really big boat, full of god damned money".


and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Margalis
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Reply #252 on: June 18, 2014, 07:56:41 PM

It's just a fundamentally dull game for variety of deep-seated reasons. I don't think it's fixable without a huge overhaul.

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Reply #253 on: June 18, 2014, 08:26:48 PM

If they had all the heroes available ala DOTA2 instead of a LoL rotation I might have played all of the characters a bit; I would have loved this game had it come out 5 years or so ago when I was still a Blizzard fanboy. Just like HS they've gone too far into simplicity for me, and since you can't play HotS on a tablet it doesn't even have bathroom entertainment value.

I only play MOBAs when a friend hits me up and asks me to join them though, so if this catches on with that crowd I might play it a bit here and there.

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Reply #254 on: June 18, 2014, 10:12:34 PM

I like how HOTS emphasizes doing turn in and monsters killing.  Because not fighting other players is EXACTLY what people who play moba want.

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Reply #255 on: June 18, 2014, 11:20:19 PM

I wonder if Blizzard realise that people aren't watching the HotS streams because... who the fuck wants to watch a game that you can't play yourself?

I like watching the occasional LoL/DotA2 game because I own those games and can play them.

I couldn't give a shit about HotS because I can't access it.

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Reply #256 on: June 18, 2014, 11:23:43 PM

People constantly watch streams of shit they can't play. That really doesn't figure into it.
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Reply #257 on: June 19, 2014, 05:58:40 AM

Most of the times games that aren't LoL or DOTA2 get to 1000+ because of a streamer with a following playing it for whatever reason.
Draegan
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Reply #258 on: June 19, 2014, 06:40:57 AM


I don't think twitch is a perfect metric, but it's quite an important one currently. I was certainly surprised how far down the list of games I had to go to find HoTS.

I think twitch is a great metric. Twitch pretty much breathes moba streams. Looking at Twitch right now (9:30 am on a Thursday EST), you have LOL and DOTA2 as the top two games. DOTA2 doubles the viewers of the third game which is Hearthstone. If you round out the top 10, SMITE is #10 with a paultry 3.5k viewers compared to LOL's 75k.

That pretty much mimics MOBA popularity in the marketplace. HOTS? All the way down with 75 viewers sandwhiched between Mafia and fucking SWTOR.

The game is dull as fuck. The only people that think they like it are people who never got into MOBAs because last hitting and item builds. Those people turned off on the genre like that are less likely to play HOTS long term anyway let alone spend money on it. That is the problem. Blizzard thinks there is a market out there of people who don't like those mechanics and that they can make money off of them.

I don't think so.

The game is essentially WOW battlegrounds except you can't twink your character. Meh.

It's a shitty game. It's just like Hearthstone is a shitty game but Blizzard hit a market that had a shit ton of room to grow since there are no decent digital card games out there. (Hearthstone isn't a TCG since you can't actually trade the fucking cards)
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Reply #259 on: June 19, 2014, 06:43:33 AM

I wonder if Blizzard realise that people aren't watching the HotS streams because... who the fuck wants to watch a game that you can't play yourself?

I like watching the occasional LoL/DotA2 game because I own those games and can play them.

I couldn't give a shit about HotS because I can't access it.

Just liked schild said, games that you are interested in and don't have access to are big draws on Twitch. Even if the average person watches for 10 minutes, a lot of streams hold 1000s of viewers just with people being curious.
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Reply #260 on: June 19, 2014, 07:02:48 AM

HOTS has Murky the Baby Murloc, so that automatically makes the game worthwhile. So cute.


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Reply #261 on: June 19, 2014, 01:24:10 PM

Presumably at some point Blizzard will pay some big streamers to try their game out and then we'll see whether it has any legs in that way.

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Rasix
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Reply #262 on: June 19, 2014, 01:26:48 PM

They likely won't get any significant LoL or DOTA2 pros to touch it.  LoL especially, since pros under LCS contracts  are barred from streaming competing games.  Maybe they can throw some cash at the retired or the few that manage a viewership outside of the professional scene. 


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Reply #263 on: June 19, 2014, 02:12:16 PM

They likely won't get any significant LoL or DOTA2 pros to touch it.  LoL especially, since pros under LCS contracts  are barred from streaming competing games.  Maybe they can throw some cash at the retired or the few that manage a viewership outside of the professional scene. 
They can stream other games, they just can't accept sponsorships to promote other titles.

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Reply #264 on: June 19, 2014, 02:14:11 PM

Presumably at some point Blizzard will pay some big streamers to try their game out and then we'll see whether it has any legs in that way.


They already did, they gave out copies to big name SC2 guys and junk, no one gave a shit.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
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Reply #265 on: June 19, 2014, 02:16:24 PM

They likely won't get any significant LoL or DOTA2 pros to touch it.  LoL especially, since pros under LCS contracts  are barred from streaming competing games.  Maybe they can throw some cash at the retired or the few that manage a viewership outside of the professional scene. 
They can stream other games, they just can't accept sponsorships to promote other titles.

Ahh, didn't see they had reversed that policy. 

They still won't likely play this, because it's boring as hell.   awesome, for real

Presumably at some point Blizzard will pay some big streamers to try their game out and then we'll see whether it has any legs in that way.


They already did, they gave out copies to big name SC2 guys and junk, no one gave a shit.

SC2 guys aren't draws anymore.  Aren't they all playing Hearthstone now?

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Fordel
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Reply #266 on: June 19, 2014, 02:23:04 PM

I know Idra and Incontrol were fucking around on it, I want to say Artosis was too.

And yea, SC2 is in the shitter, game is stagnant and stale and ruled over by Korea. It managed to get to that point like 8 years faster then BroodWar did too.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Draegan
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Reply #267 on: June 19, 2014, 05:33:05 PM

They likely won't get any significant LoL or DOTA2 pros to touch it.  LoL especially, since pros under LCS contracts  are barred from streaming competing games.  Maybe they can throw some cash at the retired or the few that manage a viewership outside of the professional scene.  
They can stream other games, they just can't accept sponsorships to promote other titles.

Ahh, didn't see they had reversed that policy.  

They still won't likely play this, because it's boring as hell.   awesome, for real

Presumably at some point Blizzard will pay some big streamers to try their game out and then we'll see whether it has any legs in that way.


They already did, they gave out copies to big name SC2 guys and junk, no one gave a shit.

SC2 guys aren't draws anymore.  Aren't they all playing Hearthstone now?

I'm pretty sure they reversed only the part that said ALL games, but they left in other MOBAs.
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Reply #268 on: June 19, 2014, 05:34:43 PM

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1sa59j/update_on_the_lcs_streaming_policy/

Quote
Hey everyone,

There’s been a ton of discussion around our LCS team contracts, which stipulated active LCS players couldn’t stream a variety of other games.

First, background on why we did this: there’ve been instances of other game studios trying to buy access to League fans by using (or trying to use) LCS teams/players to promote their competing games on stream.

The way we chose to deal with this was clearly an overreach. It hit our goal of preventing companies from advertising through LCS players, but it also encroached on pros’ ability to have fun and entertain viewers during long Challenger queues – and we realize that’s not cool.

After reading all of your comments and having a LOT of internal debate over the last 24 hours, we’re going to be changing the LCS team requirement to something that more closely matches our intent. While under contract to the LCS, teams and players can’t accept sponsorship from other game companies to promote other titles. Besides that, they are free to stream any games they want.

I'll be hanging around to answer questions if you guys have any. Thanks for helping us make a better decision on this.

Don't know if they changed it since they posted that (5 months ago).
Draegan
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Reply #269 on: June 19, 2014, 05:42:10 PM

Ah, so I guess they can stream HOTS if they randomly want to play one day, but they can't accept payment to do so.
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Reply #270 on: June 19, 2014, 07:39:06 PM

I'm gonna try this tonight because there's nothing else I'm itching to play.
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Reply #271 on: June 19, 2014, 07:58:53 PM

That was... not a great 20 minutes.
Kail
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Reply #272 on: December 06, 2014, 08:09:19 PM

So, who all is playing this?  Do we have enough for a 5-man?  Or anything?  Queueing with randoms seems weird in this game.  The comminuty is less  ACK! than Dota, but the gameplay seems like it leans more heavily on teamwork.
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Reply #273 on: December 06, 2014, 11:05:33 PM

Everyone I know (myself included) played it for a week or two then dropped it.

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Draegan
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Reply #274 on: December 07, 2014, 10:54:24 AM

I played one game against bots that you have to do in the intro and quit.
Malakili
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Reply #275 on: December 07, 2014, 12:38:02 PM

I initially hated the game, but gave it a few different changes and it has slowly grown on me, although I still have moments where I hate it.

The biggest mental hurdle was just realizing it basically isn't a MOBA.  You fight over objectives with the other team, and ultimately it is winning those objectives that wins the game or not.  Maybe 3-5% of games can be won without them, but it basically seems to come down to whether or not you can herd your team to them.  When you get a team really working together the game is pretty fun.  But even more so than the other games in this genre, having people who refuse to play as a team essentially ruins it.

« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 01:39:21 PM by Malakili »
Sophismata
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Reply #276 on: December 07, 2014, 01:28:59 PM

When you get a team really working together the game is pretty fun.  But even more so than the other games in this genre, having people who refuse to play as a team essentially ruins it.
Absolutely this. And there are a lot of people coming in from (I assume) coop games who have no clue how to play properly. It can be a real pain trying to play this game sometimes - at least with DotA, everyone has a basic understanding of what to do. In HotS, I keep seeing people try to farm their lane all game. It's not helped by having level 1 talents that give you permanent boni for killing creeps. Those talents are usually bad - your time is almost always better spent doing something else (farming creeps doesn't even give gold, just exp).

Because of the shared experience and lack of items, a single hero cannot really steamroll in this. Which means you need a good amount of teamwork almost all the time - and it's hard to find. Plenty of frustrating games. The game desperately needs voice chat, but it restricts your communication abilities heavily. You're not even allowed to talk to your opponents after the match (or whisper anyone you haven't played with).
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 04:12:33 PM by Sophismata »

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Merusk
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Reply #277 on: December 25, 2014, 07:54:02 PM

So, who all is playing this?  Do we have enough for a 5-man?  Or anything?  Queueing with randoms seems weird in this game.  The comminuty is less  ACK! than Dota, but the gameplay seems like it leans more heavily on teamwork.

I just got in. It's appealing but agree it needs a good team to work together and really make it enjoyable.  This weekend has seemed pretty good so far, as I've only run into one guy who thought he could win the entire match by himself.

The lack of twitch and last-hit means it's nowhere near as toxic as the other games becuase you're not competing against your team as well as the other team. It incentivizes you to actually support other guys when playing support. He gets the glory of the kill but the team advances as a whole.

I also think Blizzard is on to something in providing the Co-Op for the folks who don't want to bother with competitive matches. I'm having much more fun there than I ever did in LoL, as I just don't care about pwning folks and only want to waste some time. (And again, no hyper-twitch last-hit bullshit means I'm a little more relaxed.)

I think the Ai is a bit dumb, and hopefully it will improve as I level up my account. I expect them to be dumb when I'm starting, but if they continue to do things like ignoring my hero who's at 15% health so they can beat on the Map Mechanic foozle I'll get frustrated. 

This is the Hearthstone of this genre and it's going to do pretty damn well because of it. Folks who are into the "real" scene of DOTA and LOL won't care for it any more than Magic players care for Hearthstone, but it'll work great for the rest of us.

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Kail
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Reply #278 on: December 25, 2014, 09:25:30 PM

Yeah, I think they just did some massive wave of invites, I've seen more total noobs this week than in the previous two or three months combined.  Playing co-op is pretty much my default state for now.  I agree that the bots could use some better AI, though when you get a lemon of a team it's still pretty rough going.  I've had a few games on Blackheart's Bay where the bots just massed as 5 and pushed down the bottom lane, while we had 3 or 4 top who weren't paying attention until the core started dropping.  It would also be nice to see some of them with cloaks, IMO, because so many new players have no idea how to deal with cloaked heroes.

There's a 25% XP bonus active now for the holidays, though that's not exactly a huge deal.

Closed beta starts in three weeks, so probably there will be another wave of invites then.  Hoping they get the next heroes out, too, Thrall and Lost Vikings supposed to be coming soon.
Kail
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Reply #279 on: January 20, 2015, 01:18:14 PM

Hey!  Do YOU want to play Heroes of the Storm, but haven't recieved a beta invite yet?  How do you feel about paying $40 to beta test a game that will be free to play when it launches?  Then Blizzard has the solution for you!

In other news, they just hit closed beta last week and introduced ranked play on the same day they released Thrall.  Those of you with weak hearts may want to sit down for this shocking news, but he's considered kind of OP.
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