Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor

[Azuredream]

Once you give it to people you can't take it back without enormous backlash.

While the personal loot system was successful in eliminating drops that weren’t usable by anyone in the group, and reducing loot contention in some cases, we’ve also heard a significant amount of player feedback about how the system feels unrewarding and unsatisfying.

In response to these concerns, we are reverting the default loot method in Dungeon Finder back to Need Before Greed. As always, players who queue with a full premade group may change group loot settings, and may use Personal loot or any other method if they so prefer. We will be evaluating how to better present and structure dungeon personal loot, and hope to re-introduce the system in the future.

Significant player feedback? Yeah, okay. It's amazing to me that it now works in reverse of how it should. The pre-made group won't have the DPS roll on tank gear and thus needs personal loot less than the random group-finder does, yet you can only enable personal loot in the pre-made. Awesome.

[Ironwood]

The screaming on the forums is delicious.

Also, given they have 'greyed out' stats now, it's just So, So, So much worse to use a N/G system.

Thank fuck the wife has 4 good mates who regularly run.  Because this would make me stabby.

[luckton]

Yeah, pre-made groups for me until they unfix what they "fixed". I mean, if they're gonna do N/G, then go all the way with it and bring back static loot. The new "shared and random roll stats" loot system was designed for Personal Loot.

[Ironwood]

I can't get my head around it at all.

It's so fucking ludicrous that it MUST be to stop people gearing up faster.

It must be.

[luckton]

And over on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Rygarius/status/535670757595312129

Back from the departmental function. Response to dungeon loot mode change was...a surprise. I've extended thread cap.

Ya think? I mean, were we supposed to flood the forums over the last week about how awesome the new system was or something? Good lord...

[Ironwood]

IT SHOULDN'T BE A SURPRISE, YOU UTTER CUNT.

[Rendakor]

What was the new loot system?

[Paelos]

Nobody should be surprised that this team doesn't get it. Nobody.

That being said, you can't have nice things you walking fucking wallets. Welcome to 2004.

[Ironwood]

What was the new loot system?

You had a chance to get shit from the loot table quietly. If you didn't, you got cash.  You could also use tokens to get a second go.  It worked rather well.  I didn't know they'd put it into 5 mans, but it was such a good system, it wouldn't have surprised me.

Instead, we're back to some fucking teenage hunter rolling on your INT gear.

[kaid]

I think it would have been fine the way it was if it was maybe a bit more obvious like it is in LFR what you got from the boss. As it was sometimes if you did not notice the few extra gold it was like you killed a boss and it felt like it did not drop anything. If they had just used the LFR interface that gave you the pop up showing the cash/item you got from boss nobody would have complained to get it changed back to the bad old way.

[apocrypha]

I wonder if the rash of tickets/complaints about the personal loot system were from people who didn't understand what had happened and just thought they weren't seeing any loot from the bosses all of a sudden?

Was the new change made really clear in-game or did you need to read forums/websites/patch notes etc?

[luckton]

What the scrubs don't understand is that they have just as much of a chance of getting loot under Personal as they did with N/G. In fact, with Personal loot removing the chance that said scrubs/noobs needing on stuff that they don't need, and that the chance exists for all players involved to get something just for them, the chances were even higher.

I can see how some players may get bent on a string of no loot drops. Guess what? Sometimes that how the dice roll. You deal with it and truck on. Welcome to my '00s of playing in which I went WEEKS without getting loot due to how things were back in the day.

[luckton]

I wonder if the rash of tickets/complaints about the personal loot system were from people who didn't understand what had happened and just thought they weren't seeing any loot from the bosses all of a sudden?

Was the new change made really clear in-game or did you need to read forums/websites/patch notes etc?

Admittedly, no, the changes were not made clear. Again, that's on Blizzard to educate the masses, not punish them for the handful of scrub players freaking out over a perfectly good system.

[Ginaz]

I really like the new loot system.  I hope they don't change it.  Also, REALLY like how you can have some of your loot randomly improve.  It's nice seeing an ok green quest reward transform into an epic.

[luckton]

Update: Apparently setting the forum on fire does work from time to time.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/15355105387?page=127#2531

tl;dr - Fuck, you guys like you some personal loot. You can have it back, and we'll even make the last boss guarantee a drop for everyone.

 

[Paelos]

We heard from sources both within our team and the community that the experience of defeating a boss and no ceremony beyond three gold on its corpse, or the possibility of finishing an entire dungeon without seeing any items, felt flat and even a bit broken.

Mmmhmmm. I'm willing to bet that very few people in the "community" complained. Some knobs inside the team thought people would gear too fast. Then they got called out en masse when the real community showed up.

Shit like this doesn't happen when a facet of the "community" complains. They ignore almost everything small parts of the real community wants for long periods of time. They wouldn't kneejerk the change in the first place unless it came internally.

[apocrypha]

What the scrubs don't understand

scrubs/noobs needing on stuff that they don't need

Guess what? Sometimes that how the dice roll. You deal with it and truck on. Welcome to my '00s of playing in which I went WEEKS without getting loot due to how things were back in the day.

handful of scrub players freaking out

Are you sure you shouldn't be playing Wildstar? 

[luckton]

 

[Fordel]

Again, this is the same company that was shocked... SHOCKED, to learn that people want to customize their appearance.

[March]

Goodness gracious, but these folks sure do like controlling me like a puppet.  Made it to Lvl 92 and a Lvl 2 garrison and have had the unpleasant experience of multiple forced quests... I suppose this is what some people call "good" questing, but I think we already have a term for it: Kidnapping.  What was strange was that I couldn't really "fail" the quest, but every time I died, I had to resurrect in the "quest" and do it again... with the boss' HP reset to 100%.  I felt a little bit naughty like I was being punished until I got it right.  I recognize that some of you (inexplicably) pay attention to the story, but I can say with 100% confidence that I have no idea and no interest in whatever nonsense they trapped me in... just that I was not pleased to be trapped.

Oh well... I suppose it must appeal to someone, just not me.  On the plus side, I'm rather liking the concept of Garrisons, but can't tell if I like it only because I'm in the hand-holding phase and getting lots of dings and easy upgrades, or if I will hate it once the reality of the grind is exposed?  I do wish I could bring my companions out into the world 100% of the time... they should steal from Marvel 2015 and let you use your companions in 3 modes: Pet(-ish), summonable, passive... then they should go GW1 and let me build a dungeon group (if only GW2 had gone GW1).  Or, at a minimum, SWTOR style 2+ hard zones for the Pet enabled. 

Having spent a decade with Blizzard/WoW, I can say with some confidence that much of what they do is, not so much smoke and mirrors, as empty space and blurry graphics - my Garrison at level 2 is freakin' enormous... I mean, Noveau Riche big; big because I can, not because its good.

P.S. Combat has regressed from being some sort of input game into practicing Piano... a lot like their story/questing, it isn't me playing so much as them playing me.  I've tried three of the new toons (Shaman, Druid, Monk) and I cant find the fun at all in basic PvE combat - and not from boring Diku PvE, but from shitty combat mechanics that are not nearly as fun as they were 10-years ago... that's what amazes me.  Thanks a lot Obama.  (or is it really PvP and eSport nonesense?).

I'm a filthy casual, but if one were to chart the trajectory of WoW we're just a few expansions away from total devolution into a chose-your-adventure-Sim  If you would like to help to poor blue people, press 1.  {movie} *Ding* Loot.  Ugh. 

[Jeff Kelly]

I've been out for a few years so excuse my question but what people here are saying is that after all these years Blizzard had finally decided to scrap the mindbogglingly infuriating need/greed system for something more sensible and they've now decided to roll that back because "people didn't find it rewarding enough?"

They removed the biggest source of guild drama and bitching on the forums and they rolled it back? And they were surprised that people didn't like it? Could Blizzard please give me the names of the people that didn't find it "rewarding" enough so that Ironwood and I can smack some sense into them?

Need/Greed was by and far the single biggest source of drama, whinging, internet fucktardery and pettiness. It was the reason for guild breakups and people bitching in general and led to pointless and never-ending debates about whether or not somebody should roll need or greed on an item and exactly why that person was a cunt for doing it.

If they've found something better (hell even just having people duke it out "hunger games style" would be better) they should stick to it and need/greed should stay dead and buried and good riddance.

[Mithas]

Their personal loot system was only for LFR and LFD. Party and raid leaders in groups could still set whatever they wanted. So it wouldn't have gotten rid of guild drama, but it did get rid of some of the dungeon finder drama.

[Jeff Kelly]

That alone will mean that I'll be firmly inside the camp of "bring it back ASAP KTHX BYE" crowd, even though I never experienced it first hand.

[Jeff Kelly]

I made a very bad personal decision yesterday and thought it would be a good idea to browse the official forums. So much stupidity should in theory achive critical mass and generate a singularity of stupidity.

[Nebu]

So... I bought this expansion and have been playing a bit (level 94 now). 

On the bright side, it's a very well made expansion that is arguably better than panda land.  Sadly, I am either burned out on MMO's or just not a fan of WoW any more.  I enjoyed SWTOR, GW2, and the Secret World far more. 

[jakonovski]

Jeez, Arms warrior sucks ass even at 100. I can't believe I have to wait to get hit for rage again. Prolly going to let the subscription lapse, can't really get into the combat system anymore.

[kaid]

For warriors at 100 at least until the next teirs of gear come out I almost have to recommend going gladiator stance for DPS. Fury is in theory fine but its rotation does not flow very well until you get around +40% crit chance as your procs are way to sporadic. Arms suffers from a ungodly boring "rotation" if what they have can even be called that and tends to be a bit rage starved at the wrong times. Again once gearing numbers start cranking up much of that will go away although I am not sure even that will make them play any better. I think they will wind up in 6.1 getting overpower back or something very similar to it so you have something to do thats low rage cost and single target. Having whirl wind as your main filler has all sorts of unintended negative consequences.

Gladiator stance gives you full ability to use your tanking gear to beat the living shit out of things. Even after taking its nerf its still plenty fine for pure damage and has really good survivability while doing that high damage making it amazingly awesomesauce to solo with or pvp with.

[jakonovski]

Yah, I know everyone plays Prot with gladiator stance. It's just that I'm not going to start compromising in a game that still asks $15 per month in this day and age. I'll still have time to see all the zones with their terrible lore (srsly, it's so much worse than I thought), and GarrisonVille is the inverse of gameplay anyway.

[Merusk]

Blood DKs, Prot Warriors and Prot Pallys are doing *RIDICULOUS* amounts of AOE damage right now.  It's crazy-town and I keep expecting nerfs because Tanks are hitting 2-3x pure DPS class AOE numbers.

[jakonovski]

What the fuck is up with first aid requiring fishing? First aid is mandatory for warriors, yet I have no intention of grinding fishing from zero. It's like they don't even want you to have fun with all these newly discovered ways to stab cock.

[kaid]

Actually first aid really isn't needed much any more for warriors but it is a bit of a head scratcher choice. For the most part my talented version of victory rush is enough to keep me going all day without having to eat or do anything in particular to heal up. Basically the first aid things are potions used like the old healing potions. The weirder thing about it is it basically steals that niche from alchemists which was always a semi decent seller.

[jakonovski]

What do alchemists do then? Buff potions?

[SurfD]

What do alchemists do then? Buff potions?

If the new first aid items are substitute Healing Pots, then Alchemy would still do Flasks and Stat potions (and i guess mana potions, unless First Aid got those too).   

[kaid]

Yup pretty much flask and stat potions and I think rejuv potions which are health and mana but pure health potions appear to be all first aid now. Also apparently alchemy uses a lot more fishing resources than it previously needed as well.

[SurfD]

Yup pretty much flask and stat potions and I think rejuv potions which are health and mana but pure health potions appear to be all first aid now. Also apparently alchemy uses a lot more fishing resources than it previously needed as well.

yeah, they really brought back the "resource shuffle" with crafting this expac.  Nearly every crafting profession requires materials from almost every gathering profession for some of their stuff.   All the crafted armor requires some quantity of Leather / Ore / Fur for certain pieces.  Jewlcrafting requires herbs for certain gems.  Almost all potions require different fishing componenets.  Cant speak for Blacksmithing / Scribe yet, but I imagine something similar going on there also.

of course, since your garrison supplies you with more herbs / minerals then you would reasonably need due to the crafting time gates, i guess this isnt really a problem, but It still throws you a curve if you are not expecting it.