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Author Topic: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor  (Read 484861 times)
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #1435 on: December 12, 2014, 02:46:57 AM

I still experience lots of lags while playing. Any word on when this will be fixed?
SurfD
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Reply #1436 on: December 12, 2014, 03:57:17 AM

So, I discovered something the hard way on my main, which I will not repeat on my alts.

- Once your followers level up to 100, you start recieving level 100 missions, and also gain the ability to use Upgrade kits on them to increase their "ilevel".
- DO NOT UPGRADE any follower past their base starting iLevel untill you have A) A whole bunch of rare or epic followers, and B) enough upgrade kits to upgrade Several (like 6+) at once to the next Ilevel bracket.
- The reason for this is that the instant any one follower is upgraded into the next bracket (615 / 630 / 645) you start getting missions for that bracket.

I made the stupid mistake of burning a whole bunch of upgrade kits on one of my epic followers (pumped her up to 645), and now I have been forced to sit there and watch at least a half dozen level 630 missions decay because I simply dont have anyone else with a high enough iLevel to run them (an iLevel 600 follower counts as "completely ineffective" on ilevel 615 missions, and "partially effective" if they are 607).   Lost out on a possible iLevel 645 shoulder and neck token due to that.

The worst part is that many of the ilevel 615+ missions also are the types with 4 or 5 abilities to counter, and my main was a bit unlucky with the rolls and only pulled 1 epic follower upgrade (as opposed to my hunter alt, who has FIVE at the moment, and is still only 97...)

So basicly, if you want to min-max your garrison mission returns, save all your Upgrade kits untill you have several Epic and Rare followers at level 100 (preferably with at least one of each ability counter), and then try to upgrade the whole group at once to 615, then 630 etc.

Sadly, I have also had shit luck with the upgrade kits, and half my standing team is currently sitting at ilevel 607 because I have armor kits coming out of my ass, but no weapon kits at all.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 04:00:05 AM by SurfD »

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Jeff Kelly
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Reply #1437 on: December 12, 2014, 04:29:25 AM

The whole mission design needs work.

I have an absolute overabundance of missions that favour a certain counter and very few for others. Thats why I have a bunch of Level 100 followers but also a few Level 94. The higher the average level of the followers the more missions with higher levels you get and the less likely it is for low level followers to catch up because they drag win percentages down. Especially since you need to or three counters to have any chance of winning.

So those followers only have access to fewer missions with less XP and take much longer to catch up.

My Vivian is still Level 95 because I get no missions in the Level bracket and with the kind of abilities she might be useful for.

Also what you get does no longer match the time required. It#s one thing if you get 30 garrison resources on a 1.5 hour mission it's totally another to get 50 on a 10 hour 3 follower one. At least give me more salvage or something.
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Reply #1438 on: December 12, 2014, 04:29:40 AM

Salvage Yard and Barracks will help with that.

Pump out those follower upgrades.

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jakonovski
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Reply #1439 on: December 12, 2014, 04:36:18 AM

The whole garrison resource thing sucks. It's time gating that you can speed up if you make buildings that can convert resources. But then you give up on actual game content that the non-resource buildings would give. Basically you're paying sub money to wait for content, or for not getting any content. Either way the player loses.

This expansion is all smoke and mirrors to cover the fact that there is no endgame content.
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #1440 on: December 12, 2014, 05:03:17 AM

OK do you know what I really hate about this expansion?

That they don't fucking explain anything anymore.

The garrison being not were it needs to be? OK Blizzard usually takes three tries until they get something right.
The add-on feeling too short? Well at least the content we got is good to great and there is a lot of things  - granted a lot of grindy things but still - to do.
Some mechanics being half assed or broken? Well see point 1 Blizzard will fix (and then break it again) things eventually.

What really grinds my gears though is that you either get no info or the info you get is half assed and crap.

You have to read up on Blizzard's own blogs or on thrid party sites about how almost anything works or even about new features.

LFG, I wouldn't haven known it existed if it weren't for the internet
What do those apexis crystals? Wowhead has the answer
That you only get salvage from follower missions? Internet
That you get the Level 3 salvage yard items in addition to follower items (so it actually doesn't mean that it's less likely to get follower items). A blizzard blog post after a bunch ofpeople asked.

The whole way they communicate important in game mechanics and changes to you fucking sucks now
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Reply #1441 on: December 12, 2014, 09:25:35 AM

They've embraced the community and extended network aspects of their Metagame. No need to spend money on it when other people do it for free and better.

As has been said before, WoW has been this way for a long, long time. You're only just bitching about it now? Ok, Grandpa.

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Reply #1442 on: December 12, 2014, 09:42:45 AM

Except reliance on community information was their big excuse for killing the old talent system.

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jakonovski
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Reply #1443 on: December 12, 2014, 09:56:41 AM

My favorite piece of smoke and mirrors has to be Highmaul. You're all like cool, there's still this huge area to explore in Nagrand. But turns out it's just a fucking mirage of an instance. And then you figure out that the entire jungle zone is blocked off. Then finally it dawns on you that there are no lvl100 quests in this expansion. Just a handful of grind spots.
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Reply #1444 on: December 12, 2014, 10:02:54 AM

My favorite piece of smoke and mirrors has to be Highmaul. You're all like cool, there's still this huge area to explore in Nagrand. But turns out it's just a fucking mirage of an instance. And then you figure out that the entire jungle zone is blocked off. Then finally it dawns on you that there are no lvl100 quests in this expansion. Just a handful of grind spots.

So if the raid instance existed in a weird dimension of subspace it would be fine?  The jungle is disappointing but it's just not release content, having these things exist on the map and inaccessible is preferable to me than suddenly "discovering" them.

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Reply #1445 on: December 12, 2014, 10:13:55 AM

Hasn't the game always relied on getting information from third party sources? I remember needing to go to Thottbott and Allakazam back in vanilla to figure out where to get upgrades, and having to read guides to figure out what talents actually worked. Even stuff like 'where can I go to farm this rare mat that my profession tells me I need to make this' didn't have any obvious ingame answer other than 'kill stuff randomly and hope one drops somewhere'. (Remember the orbs that only dropped from one of two mob types in one tower in EPL?). And if you wanted to figure out what enchantments you could use, could get, and what materials they needed, nothing in the game other than happening to stumble on them would tell you. Sure, there are some gotchas' like leveling one follower too far past the others, but it's nothing like vanilla, where you could have a super, amamzing, BIS item that was an obscure quest reward that didn't look that impressive at the time, and if you made the wrong choice you were just stuck.

I'm not playing, but if I came in to any expansion I would expect to be able to level by just playing (which apparently works really well), and would expect to need to read up to do any serious endgame stuff, especially to optimize something like a garrison.
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Reply #1446 on: December 12, 2014, 10:22:15 AM

My favorite piece of smoke and mirrors has to be Highmaul. You're all like cool, there's still this huge area to explore in Nagrand. But turns out it's just a fucking mirage of an instance. And then you figure out that the entire jungle zone is blocked off. Then finally it dawns on you that there are no lvl100 quests in this expansion. Just a handful of grind spots.

So if the raid instance existed in a weird dimension of subspace it would be fine?  The jungle is disappointing but it's just not release content, having these things exist on the map and inaccessible is preferable to me than suddenly "discovering" them.

If the game had some level 100 content it'd be quite ok. But not like this when a useless casual like me can exhaust everything except instances in three weeks.

Could also be that mmos aren't for me anymore. Although running instances from your personal instance is really stretching the concept of an MMO.


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Reply #1447 on: December 12, 2014, 11:59:02 AM

Except reliance on community information was their big excuse for killing the old talent system.

No, their big excuse was, "these are flavorless and people do the same builds anyway. Let's make them different so they add flavor and different gameplay instead of +1 to damage"

Which has now changed to, "Talents aren't a permanent thing, they're a situational thing. You customize them on the fly as required by the content in front of you. Here's a cheap respec book (50s per) so carry a bunch and customize talents per encounter. Also, take the same approach with glyphs."

If the game had some level 100 content it'd be quite ok. But not like this when a useless casual like me can exhaust everything except instances in three weeks.

Could also be that mmos aren't for me anymore. Although running instances from your personal instance is really stretching the concept of an MMO.

The daily apexis quests, running around collecting treasures, Arena pvp, battlegrounds and dugeon/ raid instances and min/ maxing your garrison are the content for level 100s. Don't like them, run an alt up to 100, gear it and repeat. There's not a lot of varied things to do but there ARE things to do. Variety always comes in later patches when most of the players have their main and 3-4 alts at cap.

Yes, you don't like MMOs, or this isn't the game for you because this is not radically different from the last 10 years in WoW, at all.  Those of you continuing to declare it as such make me wonder exactly what you were doing when playing the last several expansions.

Pandaria at launch: Hit cap, run dungeonsvia LFG, run dailies, PVP, tend your farm and gind factions.
Cataclysm at launch: Hit cap, run dungeons via LFG, run dailies in different zones, pvp.
WoTLK at launch: Hit cap, run dungeons, run dailies alone as you and your friends figure out you're all in the wrong goddamn phase, pvp.
BC at launch; Hit cap, run dungeons, pvp, grind Netherwing Ledge rep as dailies weren't a thing until Netherwing ledge
Vanilla: Hit cap, run UBRS, Strath or Scholomance ad nausiem at 1-2 hours per dungeon, PVP. If you were Uber try MC with 39 other people.

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Reply #1448 on: December 12, 2014, 12:18:56 PM

I haven't really gotten into the expansions since TBC, but back then there was two top level zones, loads of elite quests as well as the all new flying mounts (and related exploration and quests) to go for. I feel it was much more than this. Also crafting was a thing that had thought put into it, which it totally isn't right now.

I would've just shrugged if the leveling hadn't been so good, but as it is it's a pretty huge drop in both quality and quantity.
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Reply #1449 on: December 12, 2014, 12:36:01 PM


My Vivian is still Level 95 because I get no missions in the Level bracket and with the kind of abilities she might be useful for.


Um?  You get the mission experience if you succeed and if you fail.  You only get the reward (bonus) experience if you succeed.  Keep churning those crappy missions off and sending your followers to their DooooOOOOoooooooom, it takes a lot less time to grind those missions off than to wait out their expiration.  Sure, it would be faster if the assignment was ideal, but there are very many possible abilities and very few per follower.  Poor matches should be the rule in such a system.  The caveat is, if the assignment is very bad, like level 99 follower on 630 mission you won't get the mission experience for failing.  But by all means, go ahead and send that already epic level 100 follower with "increased mission experience" ability along for the ride on a mission they are in no way suited for to boost the other participants who do need the experience.

Follower level...  The iLevel is the average of weapon and armor.  If you have armor kits just drive the armor level up.  (600+630)/2 is just as iLevel 615 as 615/615.

Scavenge and Epic Mount are probably the most generally useful, and since the Scavenge reward is 3x you do better over time sending that mismatched follower out on resource missions so long as they are above 33% success chance.  Once you have scavengers rolling you'll have more garrison resource than you know what to do with so grinding everything off everywhere every time for garrison resources effectively has no cost.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 02:02:18 PM by Lightstalker »
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Reply #1450 on: December 12, 2014, 12:57:57 PM

I haven't really gotten into the expansions since TBC, but back then there was two top level zones, loads of elite quests as well as the all new flying mounts (and related exploration and quests) to go for. I feel it was much more than this. Also crafting was a thing that had thought put into it, which it totally isn't right now.

I would've just shrugged if the leveling hadn't been so good, but as it is it's a pretty huge drop in both quality and quantity.

Your problem then is that you haven't played the game in about 6 years.  Things have changed, wildly, in that time. You're right about the 2 end zones, but those were only gold fodder, replaced by dailies.

Even as far back as LK you didn't have whole zones left over once you hit the cap. Maybe you'd skipped part of one or two, but those were alt fodder.  Now it's much more controlled and no content is ouside of defined paths to get to cap. That I suspect is the influence of Blizzard's buy-out.

Crafting matters now and there's daily crafting cooldowns for patterns and rare mats to control item flow and crafted items you'll actually wear beyond your first dungeon. I personally prefer this because fuck the discovery system in glyphs and alchemy. There's still old glyphs I never found because I didn't win the glyph lottery that day.

They've also altered the whole system to do away with the bullshit 'create this DE fodder 100 times to max skill' stuff that marked Vanill and BC crafting. This was done because the players wanted it. Yeah, there's some gaping flaws in this system, like alchemy, but by and large this is where things have been heading for a long time.  Cataclysm introduced the "craft once, get multiple skillups" and Pandaria expanded on it.  Now we've got Draenor crafting, with with the daily skill cooldown, findables to raise professions out in the world and wearables at 91 that will last until at least the 2nd raid dungeon.  We'll see if this is popular enough to make it to the next expansion.

Also, there's more here to get you out in the world than the daily rep grind.  Yeah it's more grinding but the items in the garrison encourage people to get out and about far more than the dailies did.  Inn, Stables, Lumber Mill, Apexis shards, and Follower reps at the help with this.  If you're trying to do everything, just hanging out in the garrison is going to make you miss a bunch of things, at least at this point.

See, you're not enjoying it and that's fine for you. Doesn't mean everythings broken and pointless, just that you blew $50 on a game you don't like.

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Reply #1451 on: December 13, 2014, 12:11:53 AM

Yes, there's a lot more stuff to do in WOD at max level than ever before... and more importantly, it's actually fun (for the most part, and you can ignore the parts that you don't find fun). As a non-raider, this is what I did after hitting cap in each xpac ('play an alt' not included, especially since in vanilla and tbc it took for-fucking-ever to level up to cap):

vanilla - join terrible long-ass dungeon slogs that inevitably resulted in me not getting anything, maybe pvp. Spend countless hours farming shit like the consumables in felwood.
tbc - do daily quests that were a lot more tedious than in any other xpac, do pvp (which was actually pretty good in BC), hopelessly try to get in heroic dungeon groups, maybe pug kara 1/week (taking up an entire saturday)
wotlk - do daily quests that were still pretty bad, run dungeons over and over; pvp was a joke at this point
cata - yep, daily quests... and they're still bad. Run dungeons over and over, and pray for no mouthbreathers.
mop - daily quests that were somehow even worse than in cata, pet battles, dungeons until geared then LFR 1/week, play farmville, brawler's guild (after it was added), proving grounds / challenge modes at end of xpac as well as hunting rares and stuff on timeless isle. This was actually not bad at all.
wod - daily quest area (I usually ignore it actually), play farmville garrison edition, dungeons until geared and LFR -- then look for PUG raids using the raid finder, brawler's guild, proving grounds, challenge modes, pet battles, garrison quests/invasions (1/week). Maybe check on pvp ever so often (ashran or arena) since it's a lot less painful now, but PVP in wow has been historically terrible so whatever.

Yeah, running a pug raid in mop or wod takes a lot less time than running a pug kara back in BC... but it's a much, much improved experience. Honestly, looking back, a lot of the 'things to do' in vanilla and BC were timewasters with almost no redeeming value (oh, I get a netherwing drake after x weeks of doing the same mindnumbing dailies every day. yay).
« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 12:16:02 AM by Zetor »

Jeff Kelly
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Reply #1452 on: December 15, 2014, 02:04:00 AM

By the time you hit Nagrand they've completely forgone to label any quest correctly. No Group icon, no "recommended players (x)", they just throw you in there and then you end up getting bashed by a Lvl 100 Elite mob.

Just because everyone is using a bodyguard doesn't mean that you can stop labelling stuff correctly, Blizzard.

Also almost half of Nagrand is just the Highmaul Instance zone, that was dissapointing to discover.
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #1453 on: December 15, 2014, 03:00:16 AM

I still like that you can't fly btw.

It is a bit too cumbersome to get around on foot and Blizzard is apallingly bad at dealing with and visualizing to the player the multiple levels quest mobs and objectives can be at. The questing experience has become better though than in WotLK.

It's only anecdotal but I've never had so many people offering me group invites for quests or simply asking for help/helping with rares and boss fights or certain difficult quests. Usually in WotLK a player on a flying mount would rop in kill the mob or harvest the node and leave. Right now what usually happens is that people who come riding along simply dismount and help you kill a quess mob or rare that you are struggeling with.

Yesterday during the ring of blood quest an Alliance Paladin dropped in and helped me defeat the Elite mob. I never had that happen to me during WotLK even when everyone was questing as soon as people had their flying mounts.
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Reply #1454 on: December 16, 2014, 11:22:30 AM

By the time you hit Nagrand they've completely forgone to label any quest correctly. No Group icon, no "recommended players (x)", they just throw you in there and then you end up getting bashed by a Lvl 100 Elite mob.

Just because everyone is using a bodyguard doesn't mean that you can stop labelling stuff correctly, Blizzard.

Also almost half of Nagrand is just the Highmaul Instance zone, that was dissapointing to discover.

The screwy thing about those level 100 elites those are what you need to hunt and trap to get savage blood. So I get the fun of having to fight those things all the time to throw them in my barn.
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Reply #1455 on: December 16, 2014, 03:14:05 PM

The screwy thing about those level 100 elites those are what you need to hunt and trap to get savage blood. So I get the fun of having to fight those things all the time to throw them in my barn.

Then you get the added fun of getting one close to 50% and having some shitcock taunt it into their own trap.  They really need to change it so you can only trap stuff that you have tapped.
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Reply #1456 on: December 17, 2014, 08:17:10 AM

Or just simply sneak up under it and drop a trap ontop of your own trap. The space cows are such huge fat asses its super easy to not notice somebody coming in from the other side of it and dropping a trap.
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #1457 on: December 18, 2014, 02:18:53 AM

I tried to report Thrall for griefing since he keeps stealing my kills in WoD. Unfortunately the GM that respnded didn't have a sense of humor.  why so serious?

Seriously though, literally the last fucking quest in Nagrand and me and my team had Hellscream at 20%. then <Garrosh Hellscream casts plot armor. It's very effective!> and Green Orcish Jesus jumps in and steals my kill. Then lousy badly written cut scene commences.
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Reply #1458 on: December 19, 2014, 04:46:16 PM

Yesterday during the ring of blood quest an Alliance Paladin dropped in and helped me defeat the Elite mob. I never had that happen to me during WotLK even when everyone was questing as soon as people had their flying mounts.

You must have been playing on a shit server. I can't count the number of times I helped others of either faction with the Ring, and got helped pretty much every time by either Alliance or Horde who happened to be around (except the last alt, which was overpowered where we duoed it pretty easily).

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Reply #1459 on: December 22, 2014, 08:36:46 AM

You can lay down two traps on an elite, and get two from one (until/unless they fix it). Lay each trap on top of the other and drag over the top once second trap is ready.

Professions are fucked up. I like garrisons, but I don't like how professions work. Cooking in particular is just horrible. I have over a hundred savage feasts, so why do I need cooking other than the achievement?

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Reply #1460 on: December 23, 2014, 12:51:45 AM

You can lay down two traps on an elite, and get two from one (until/unless they fix it). Lay each trap on top of the other and drag over the top once second trap is ready.

Professions are fucked up. I like garrisons, but I don't like how professions work. Cooking in particular is just horrible. I have over a hundred savage feasts, so why do I need cooking other than the achievement?


Really?  Always seemed to me that as soon as you dropped a second trap, your first one automatically expired.

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Reply #1461 on: December 23, 2014, 08:55:42 AM

I'm sure. I just grabbed more elite riverbeasts yesterday. In fact, a druid came up and laid another trap on top of my two, so we got 3 off one elite.

It's nice, because as a disc priest, each elite takes some time to get to half health.
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Reply #1462 on: December 24, 2014, 03:05:36 PM

Subbed back to WoW today and am contemplating my free level 90 upgrade.  I am thinking of my Paladin, he has JC and Mining.  Since the free 90 boosts skills to 600 and I hear keeping Mining is useless thanks to the garrison mine, would it be a good idea to drop Mining and pick up BS then free level to 90?

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Reply #1463 on: December 24, 2014, 07:00:55 PM

I believe the profession boost is only if you boost a character that is at level 60 or higher.  If you have professions chosen it will boost them, otherwise it makes a reasonable choice based on your class/spec.

If you boost a brand new character or an existing toon that is below level 60, you dont get the profession boost.

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Reply #1464 on: December 27, 2014, 11:25:34 AM

Most Draenor crafting items don't have a minimum skill level.
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Reply #1465 on: December 27, 2014, 05:00:17 PM

Thanks, but these boards move so slow I went elsewhere and got my question answered.

I know I'm late to the game, had to finish DA3 and SWTOR xpac first.  Wasn't going to get it, never got Pandaria, but I have several days off so I pulled the trigger.

What's funny is that there is no surprises with this xpac.  The same nice zones, the same stale gameplay, the stronghold idea is fun and crafting sucks as I've heard.

Things I like
-Not too many pop culture references for quests.  Glad to see Blizzard tone them down. 
-Not a lot of vehicles to drive
-Random upgrades of quest loot
-Stat squash!  OK well done Blizz.  I like the smaller numbers and the fewer stats.
-Environments are quite nice in the three zones I've been in.  Pleasant to wander around.
-The new models are good.  I even made a human!  Always hated their wide birthin' hips.

Things I dislike
-No quest gun for my hunter so far (I'm 94).  Loots falling like rain and my dwarf can't get a proper blunderbuss.  Seriously annoying.
-My Bugs Bunny bow shoots like a thousand arrows in a stream and you barely hear them
-Combat remains stale.  No getting past this it looks like.  Been this way for me since Cata.  It's an MMO I guess.  Or maybe it's stale because I've been playing WoW off and on for ten years.

So, thanks for more of the same Blizzard.  Maybe after Pandaria they didn't want to take chances, especially since Titan fell through. 

Hey, since they don't want to take chances, why not make the next xpac a version of Azeroth where the orcs didn't come through the Dark Portal!  CHA-CHING!  Why that lore practically writes itself!  Where's my check Blizzard?

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Reply #1466 on: December 28, 2014, 01:01:39 PM

Stale.  Perfect word.

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Reply #1467 on: December 29, 2014, 02:07:04 AM

TBH I think it shits all over Pandaria and Cataclysm. The genre is pretty much done anyway and TBH, it's easy to jump into, have fun and then let the sub slip. As a game rather than a lifestyle, I like it. If I wanted to play hardcore MMOs I'd move to Korea - or play Wildstar... like everyone else that doesn't play Wildstar anymore.

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Reply #1468 on: December 29, 2014, 02:23:17 AM

I'm having fun, in bits.  I am very confused by the turn with Garrisons, though.  I'm not really sure what I need other people for anymore.  Other than 5man/raids/pvp, there's no real reason for me to work with any other person. 

It seems like Engineering is the best profession now, because none of the other professions are worth anything at all.  At least my engi can port around the game every 4 hours.  My main is a mine/JC and I just don't see the point in leveling him.  The entire garrison setup is basically farmville and it's all very off-putting.

I want to like the game, I'm not sure I can though. 
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Reply #1469 on: December 29, 2014, 01:40:21 PM

-Combat remains stale.  No getting past this it looks like.  Been this way for me since Cata.  It's an MMO I guess.  Or maybe it's stale because I've been playing WoW off and on for ten years.

I'm out; never made it to 100.  For me, its not so much that combat is stale (I don't mind Tab/Target and I'm not pining for Tera twitch), its that *every* ability has a cooldown timer.  We've moved from optimizing a rotation for maximum effectiveness to the *rotation* being the thing.  Too many times I press a button and nothing happens.  In the goal of normalizing all rotations so that everyone could play the same way, they killed the WoW ability "crunchiness" ... that great technical and artistic achievement that when I pushed bash, it bashed, and bashed in a satisfyingly visual and audibly crunchy way.

I always quit after reaching max level because while I know *how* to raid, i don't *want* to raid.  I suppose there is probably a huge contingent of (new?) gamers that want to be introduced to Raiding... but sometimes I wonder if that isn't really just a developer conceit - that there must always be a pool of untapped raiders, if only we could teach them about fire and the joys of not standing in it.  I'm sure there's a spreadsheet somewhere that shows there is.

This time I had vague notions that the solo game with garrisons might just give me enough to keep puttering around.  What might have made the garrison interesting was actual companion characters that I could chose, interact with, equip, use and send on missions.  Instead, nothing more than a sort of puzzle game with half-remembered names but really just colors, icons, and cascading effects... candy-crush mini-game-garrison.  Oh well.
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