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Author Topic: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor  (Read 484879 times)
Sjofn
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Reply #945 on: July 18, 2014, 02:15:05 PM

Came up with about 50% of the artwork and 100% of the storyline for Warcraft 1 on the spot after Games Workshop (allegedly) backed out. So not like it saved the company,or anything.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

You mean the game they blatantly ripped off the artwork and lore from Warhammer? Good call. Bet that took some real talent to basically copy somebody just enough not to invoke a lawsuit.

You stole my response. THIEF. THIEF BAGGINS.

And frankly, the storyline just ... isn't ... good? Like it was good enough then, obviously, but ... man, it's just not good. Or more specifically, it doesn't age well. I was 16 when it came out (but not into RTS games, generally, so I didn't play it). I'm sure I would've thought the story was fine then. I think the thing that weirds me out about Metzen is that he hasn't really ... grown at all. That's why I call him a manchild. He's still writing shit a 17 year old asshat would write/think was totally metal.

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Hawkbit
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Reply #946 on: July 18, 2014, 02:31:42 PM

Fucking ouch.  On one hand, like me, person played since launch and has likely grown out of the game.  On the other hand, how do they market a 10yr old game to new blood?  They don't; they try to make a game for the launch folks. 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/07/18/wows-warlords-of-draenor-beta-a-disappointing-start/
Maven
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Reply #947 on: July 18, 2014, 02:46:01 PM

Metzen's safely ensconced inside the financial and egotistical bubble of his own fanboy success.

Curiously, I went to look for any type of formal education or background information that was available, and it seems to me he was this hardcore geek with some OK artistic talent that struck solid gold with his connections and just never progressed from that. People's love of WarCraft and the other iconic output of the company translated in a direct fascination with him and his creative mind, which wouldn't go to someone's head at all, no sir.

Contrast with, say, Morhaime, who had already received extensive education (Bachelor's from UCLA, along with friends like Allen Adham and Frank Pearce) which only grew from there to include continuing education in running a business at the corporate / executive level in order to keep up with his role as President.

What would... COULD... Metzen do? Read more comic books?
Father mike
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Reply #948 on: July 18, 2014, 02:58:15 PM

I bought the collectors edition of Wings of Liberty, and one of the goodies was a 'making of' video that had interviews with the devs and creative types.  It was astonishing.  I really thought it was some sort of super-meta joke about immature, poorly-socialized man-children -- but it never let up.  It was painful to watch.  It was obvious that everyone was really passionate about what they were doing, and that in their minds they were creating the coolest thing possible.  But by the end it really felt like one was watching the greasy kid in algebra class trying to show some disinterested girls his heavy metal sketches.

It really made me wonder why Activision hasn't stepped in even more in an even more intrusive manner and installed some adults.  Or at least hall monitors.

I would like to thank Vladimir Putin for ensuring that every member of the NPR news staff has had to say "Pussy Riot" on the air multiple times.
Mithas
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Reply #949 on: July 18, 2014, 04:52:43 PM

Fucking ouch.  On one hand, like me, person played since launch and has likely grown out of the game.  On the other hand, how do they market a 10yr old game to new blood?  They don't; they try to make a game for the launch folks. 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/07/18/wows-warlords-of-draenor-beta-a-disappointing-start/

They blew it by having Lich King so early. That's what everyone wanted to see. They wrapped up everything from Warcraft III and now everything after that feels forced because most of it is new territory. They aren't good at new territory.
Setanta
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Reply #950 on: July 18, 2014, 07:30:30 PM

Illidan and Arthus - they have to be my favorite bosses in the game oin terms of story-telling, the lore was so rich around them that they could have drawn WC3 out over at least 2 expansions. It's probably rose coloured glasses but I found Ulduar/Frozen Throne to be the highlight of the entire game lore-wise. I just felt like I was doing something and the interaction with the NPCs made me feel like I was part of a bigger story. Even Naxx2 felt good. I never really felt that way again, not in Cata and certainly not in pandaville.

I find it kind of sad that the only time I really loved the game was the core and first 2 expansions that were really just WC3 extensions. After that, the story-telling talent just fell apart.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
Wizgar
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Reply #951 on: July 19, 2014, 02:26:33 AM

It really made me wonder why Activision hasn't stepped in even more in an even more intrusive manner and installed some adults.  Or at least hall monitors.

"I know we're down a billion dollars for the year, but those guys making our video games about space marines and death knights were DORKS! It was time to be intrusive and install some adults!" said the CEO of Activision, five seconds before he was physically dismembered and his remains pissed on by his board.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 02:31:28 AM by Wizgar »
Hutch
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Reply #952 on: July 19, 2014, 07:47:44 AM

Aaaaaaand I'm spent.

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Paelos
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Reply #953 on: July 19, 2014, 08:41:42 AM

Given what they've let him publish I can't imagine that Titan was held back because of anything Metzen-related. I don't really see Titan as especially relevant, anymore than SC: Ghost or other projects they've killed that we never heard a name for.

The Metzen part is just that he would have been in charge of the overall story and IP. Not that he held it up. It would have been terrible.

As to the second part, I'm sort of floored that you don't believe Titan was important to Blizzard. For a long time it's been purported as that thing that people will move on to after WoW. I always suspected they needed a sucessor as WoW got stagnant and ridiculously old. Well, we're basically there now. Titan was "supposed" to release by 2015 if you believe estimates and talking points. It probably wouldn't, but still it sounds like they've shuffled it off. Now we have a slacking WoW for another 5 years? That's a pretty big move in my mind.

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Maven
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Reply #954 on: July 19, 2014, 11:02:02 AM

If Blizzard had launched Titan, we wouldn't be talking about this game or Blizzard in the same tones we are now. WoW would have gracefully moseyed off into the sunset instead of carrying the entire future of the company on its shoulders, gasping and wheezing towards the grave.

So what else do they got? Hearthstone, a niche title, and Heroes of the Storm which, on paper, would have the opportunity to bring in revenue similar to the massive success of League of Legends, but based on initial feedback it doesn't appear it'll do more than plug holes in Blizzard's revenue that the loss of subscriber numbers from WoW has created.

Are we past the era of mega-releases? I'm thinking Half-Life 3, Blizzard's next big project, other big hits that change the course of things. Not that I dislike the new independent movement with titles that have more meaning to them, but I miss it when you'd have this game everyone would drop and play and people would point to as major milestones.
Malakili
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Reply #955 on: July 19, 2014, 07:37:23 PM

Not that I dislike the new independent movement with titles that have more meaning to them, but I miss it when you'd have this game everyone would drop and play and people would point to as major milestones.

We have the first half of that equation but not the last half.  Everyone plays the new thing, goes crazy, gets 80k viewers on Twitch for 48 hours, then it falls off the planet never to be heard from again.  Gaming used to be defined by those few releases a year that everyone was looking forward to.  Now it's defined by the constant turnover of hype trains, launch frenzies, and essential disposability of games. 
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 07:40:37 PM by Malakili »
Sjofn
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Reply #956 on: July 19, 2014, 10:07:19 PM

Are we past the era of mega-releases? I'm thinking Half-Life 3, Blizzard's next big project, other big hits that change the course of things. Not that I dislike the new independent movement with titles that have more meaning to them, but I miss it when you'd have this game everyone would drop and play and people would point to as major milestones.

I am charmed you think HL3 is going to come out. I guess Duke Nukem Forever came out eventually ... anything is possible!

I'm not sure I 100% understand what you mean by mega-releases. What are some games past you consider such? I've been gaming pretty much my entire life, but I bet I haven't played more than a handful of them anyway, so maybe I have no good perspective on that anyway. My type of games (city builders, various tycoon and sims games, RPG-nonsense) don't usually get the same sort of attention as, say, GTA5 does.

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Wizgar
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Reply #957 on: July 20, 2014, 02:01:40 AM

God WoW is now as old as EQ1 was when WotLK was out.
Maven
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Reply #958 on: July 20, 2014, 09:54:55 AM

- Doom
- Quake
- StarCraft
- Diablo
- Final Fantasy 7
- Metal Gear Solid
- Ultima Online / Everquest / WoW
- Half-Life / 2
- Hardware launches like the Dreamcast
- Morrowind / Obsidian
Edit: - Grand Theft Auto 3.

Half-Life 3 will come out sometime in my life-time. That gives us at least 40 years.

I think that short-list has one pattern in common -- major advances in technology coupled with a game design / world that hadn't been implemented / experienced before and a lack of competition. Also, those were games my younger self got extremely excited about, so take that into account. Modern equivalents of that list would be Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed 2 for their impact as brands.

Lately the only game I got excited about is Guild Wars 2, though a much less significant spike compared to those others due to industry saturation and my own burn-out. I didn't even get worked up over Skyrim.

Another example would be Steam, but that's significant for different reasons.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 10:56:45 AM by Maven »
Simond
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Reply #959 on: July 20, 2014, 10:00:52 AM

Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.


Also: Mithas - your post about how Blizzard aren't good at being creative and Warcraft was ruined forever when they killed off the WC3 characters...remind me: How many of those particular characters were newly introduced in WC3?  Ohhhhh, I see.

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Paelos
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Reply #960 on: July 20, 2014, 10:01:21 AM

I'm legitmately excited for Mount and Blade 2. That's about the only one I can think of off the top of my head.

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Malakili
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Reply #961 on: July 20, 2014, 10:41:49 AM


I think that short-list has one pattern in common -- major advances in technology coupled with a game design / world that hadn't been implemented / experienced before and a lack of competition.

id tried to do this with Rage a few years back and it ended up being terrible.  Hell Quake 3 is probably still their most popular game.
Sjofn
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Reply #962 on: July 20, 2014, 02:46:57 PM

- Doom
- Quake
- StarCraft
- Diablo
- Final Fantasy 7
- Metal Gear Solid
- Ultima Online / Everquest / WoW
- Half-Life / 2
- Hardware launches like the Dreamcast
- Morrowind / Obsidian
Edit: - Grand Theft Auto 3.

Yeah, see, I played one (1) of those games (and it was WoW) (I did play Diablo 2, though!). None of them had any particular impact on me or my gaming life in the way I think you're saying they should've. I've been a mainly PC gamer my whole life (I've had consoles, obviously, but they were never my "main" gaming machine), so shit like the Dreamcast mostly passed me by as feeling like a milestone. So I guess I'm lucky, I don't have a "mega-release" era to miss.  why so serious?

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Maven
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Reply #963 on: July 20, 2014, 04:54:06 PM

As Simond pointed out, I think my younger self was more susceptible to marketing hype that I now see through and being more fascinated with my toys than I could ever be now. As objectively as I can make it, those titles were significant, and I'm sure there are many more you can point out with various supporting statements.

The releases probably still happen for younger people still caught up in the hype cycle because that's all the information they get. They're on their own journey.

But, yeah, WoW. Four years of my life was spent obsessed with that game, and I don't have much to show for it aside for a fine appreciation of the Night Elf & Troll physiques.
Selby
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Reply #964 on: July 20, 2014, 05:32:40 PM

But, yeah, WoW. Four years of my life was spent obsessed with that game, and I don't have much to show for it aside for a fine appreciation of the Night Elf & Troll physiques.
I played from release until early in January this year.  That was almost 9.5 years of my life.  Playing a game.  Say as much as I want or bitch as much as I want, I'm pretty sure WoW was the best investment for fun and time I've had my entire life so far.

Funny how that works out.

I wouldn't necessarily say that nostalgia on any of those games really is the driving factor in them being "good" or "games people talked about" when they were new.  There was a LOT of other stuff that came out when those games were coming out and a good chunk was complete garbage (just like today!).  A smaller selection were REALLY good as well, just not as popular depending on the genre you were interested in.  Although in fairness, I can't think of a single game that has come out recently that people actually like and talk about except maybe Grand Theft Auto & whatnot.  Part of that is probably just because I'm an old fogey who doesn't like what the younger kids are playing because it probably involves sex and drugs and getting on my lawn...
Maven
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Reply #965 on: July 20, 2014, 06:26:47 PM

I'm sure there's some messed up dissonance situation happening in my head where any entertainment or fun I had with video games / other pursuits had consequences that got spun into "lost / wasted time" towards other more meaningful, obscured objectives in my life.

Life's now about my time paying dividends (going to college, getting that degree & job). At least, that's the principle on paper.
Rendakor
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Reply #966 on: July 20, 2014, 08:56:40 PM

I'm sure there's some messed up dissonance situation happening in my head where any entertainment or fun I had with video games / other pursuits had consequences that got spun into "lost / wasted time" towards other more meaningful, obscured objectives in my life.

Life's now about my time paying dividends (going to college, getting that degree & job). At least, that's the principle on paper.
This is your issue right here. Games aren't getting worse*, you're (we're all) just getting older. GTAV and Last of Us were both kind of a big deal last year; also SMTIV is one of the greatest games I've ever played. A lot of games coming out are shit, but I think that's always been the case and maybe it's a bit more obvious now. Hype around AAA games is at an all time high, so when one of them disappoints (Watch Dogs for example) it's kind of a big deal; we also get reviews on or before launch day now, instead of waiting on a magazine that would come out weeks later. The other reason games might look worse to you is that AAA games are all kinda converging on some weird Call of Duty singularity where in 2030 every AAA title will be a dudebro shooter; if you're not a fan of console FPS. Aside from that, there is fun to be had, if fun is what you're interested in.

As far as the lack of major releases, they still happen it's just that the bar's been raised. Every year for at least the past 5 a game has beaten the previous best selling game of all time (COD MW2 & 3, BO 1&2, and GTAV). The fact that COD sells so many units causes other studios to set unrealistic expectations and you get odd scenarios like the Dead Space 3 thing. Console launches aren't any different: they're a great christmas gift for kids, but savvy gamers know that the first year of launch is kind of shit due to the lack of software available.

*MMOs are in fact getting worse, or at least not getting better. Every WoW expansion since LK has made the game less appealing to me, and of the recent games only FFXIV has scratched the itch.

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Setanta
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Reply #967 on: July 21, 2014, 01:18:18 AM

Maven - no Unreal/Na Pali/Unreal Tournament?

I like the early part of your list but would also add Homeworld/Cataclysm to it along with Giant: Citizen Kabutu

Looking at my games drive (just under 2TB) I find gems like Alice, AvP 1&2, Battlezone 2, Black and White/2, Diablo/2, Drakan, lots of Doom (whole series), lots of Duke Nukem, Dungeon Keeper 2, Freeelancer and Freespace 2, Grim Fandango, Ground Control/2, Halo, Hexen/Heretic/Heretic2, Hexen 2, Jedi Outcast, Max Payne, NOLF/2, ONi, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Rune, Shogo, Tribes series, Vampire series, Tron 2.0, Impossible creatures, dawn of war series Trackmania series and Total Annihilation plus everything made by Blizzard and so on.

I loved waiting for those releases (nop bloody kickstarter either) and add those to all my Valve games plus a plethora of uninstalled games, I couldn't wait for those either.

I think you're right though, it has to do with the engines - Quake, Source, Lithtech, Unreal and Relic's RTS engine. But the games themselves were important.

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Kail
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Reply #968 on: July 21, 2014, 01:57:13 AM

The term's a bit nebulous, but to me there's a difference between a game that's good or that some people enjoy and a game that's a major gaming milestone.  Something like Unreal or Homeworld is fine, but it didn't reshape the market.  Something like Street Fighter 2 comes out, though, and suddenly we're drowning in fighting games.  Sonic the Hedgehog comes out and suddenly the shelves are full of cartoon ANIMALS WITH ATTITUDE starring in their own 2D side scrolling platformers.

Blizzard used to consistently be like this: Warcraft dropped and suddenly everyone was making RTSes.  Diablo dropped and suddenly everyone was making action RPGs.  WoW dropped and the entire MMORPG genre orbited it for years.

But now, not so much.  Starcraft 2 comes out, and it's kind of okay, but it's not like we're seeing a revival of the RTS boom that the original inspired.  Diablo 3 comes out and six months later people mostly don't care.  The games are fun, they're functional, but they're not reshaping the gaming industry the way Blizzard of old used to.
Malakili
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Reply #969 on: July 21, 2014, 08:24:19 AM

The term's a bit nebulous, but to me there's a difference between a game that's good or that some people enjoy and a game that's a major gaming milestone.  Something like Unreal or Homeworld is fine, but it didn't reshape the market.  Something like Street Fighter 2 comes out, though, and suddenly we're drowning in fighting games.  Sonic the Hedgehog comes out and suddenly the shelves are full of cartoon ANIMALS WITH ATTITUDE starring in their own 2D side scrolling platformers.

Blizzard used to consistently be like this: Warcraft dropped and suddenly everyone was making RTSes.  Diablo dropped and suddenly everyone was making action RPGs.  WoW dropped and the entire MMORPG genre orbited it for years.

But now, not so much.  Starcraft 2 comes out, and it's kind of okay, but it's not like we're seeing a revival of the RTS boom that the original inspired.  Diablo 3 comes out and six months later people mostly don't care.  The games are fun, they're functional, but they're not reshaping the gaming industry the way Blizzard of old used to.

I'd say Minecraft is a recent example of that. 
Simond
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Reply #970 on: July 21, 2014, 02:25:12 PM

Meanwhile, back in the beta: http://wod.wowhead.com/quest=35167

Oh.
Oh no.

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Reply #971 on: July 21, 2014, 02:26:40 PM

I saw the title and thought it was going to be fucking Corki again.

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Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Merusk
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Reply #972 on: July 21, 2014, 02:27:45 PM

Corki wouldn't be alive in this time period.  Maybe his dad will get lost.

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Reply #973 on: July 21, 2014, 02:28:54 PM

If we can walk through a time portal, so can he!

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Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Sjofn
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Reply #974 on: July 21, 2014, 02:47:19 PM


God Save the Horn Players
Tannhauser
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Reply #975 on: July 21, 2014, 03:15:10 PM

Fucking Mankirk, did you ever think they don't WANT you to find them?
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #976 on: July 21, 2014, 03:26:29 PM

They are gonna milk nostalgia so hard that garrosh is gonna shoot dry powder from his teats.

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Malakili
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Reply #977 on: July 21, 2014, 03:30:39 PM

Maven
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Reply #978 on: July 21, 2014, 11:57:05 PM

Am I the only one peeved that an Orc said "kinda" or is acting like a bashful teen in medieval high as fuck fantasy?
Sjofn
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Reply #979 on: July 22, 2014, 02:12:59 AM

Pretty sure that ship sailed roughly 10 years ago, buddy.

God Save the Horn Players
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