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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  World of Warcraft  |  Topic: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor 0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor  (Read 484755 times)
Merusk
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Reply #490 on: April 04, 2014, 10:00:01 AM

Lmao; just make it so each class is like a MOBA character and only has enough abilities to map to like 4-5 keys and get it the fuck over with.

This is EXACTLY what I thought and pretty clearly the reasoning behind a lot of the changes.  "We want WoW to be more ARPG/ MOBA and less MMO.  We think you'll all be pleased."

Ha.  awesome, for real

Hunter changes are depressing only because of the removal of game-long abilities like Aspect of the Hawk.  Of all the classes, they and Shamen were the two that had the most ability bloat and player bases begging for greater differentation.  Fuck, Hunters have been begging for fewer buttons since Burning Crusade at least.  The proposed changes don't seem too terrible on the face.  Which probably means they'll be goddamn awful.

All the crowd control removal is just hilarious.  They will never get this right, ever. Some dev must have been raging at getting CCd in arenas for them to be removing it almost entirely. L2P, Noob.

« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 10:13:13 AM by Merusk »

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Soulflame
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Reply #491 on: April 04, 2014, 10:06:46 AM

I am pleased.  It confirms my decision to avoid the game.
Paelos
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Reply #492 on: April 04, 2014, 10:27:14 AM

One day they'll finally put in two different rulesets for pvp and pve, and nobody will care because the subs will already be long gone.

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luckton
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Reply #493 on: April 04, 2014, 10:45:11 AM

All this bitching in the bitching thread  awesome, for real

I think the stat changes blow would have been less impactful if they had mentioned the new stats they putting in.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=224546/gear-changes-in-warlords-of-draenor

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
luckton
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Reply #494 on: April 04, 2014, 10:47:21 AM


"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Ironwood
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Reply #495 on: April 04, 2014, 10:56:20 AM

Undead breathing a typo.  Lol.

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Hutch
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Reply #496 on: April 04, 2014, 12:09:44 PM

Quote
Hunter pets no longer have crowd-control abilities.

rrrrRRRRRRRR  Tantrum Mob

They had it just right. You could finally collect more hunter pets, really, than you would ever use.
You could switch your pets between tenacity/cunning/ferocity at will.

I could, if I so chose, have an awesome spider pet who could tank for me, and also trap my (PvE) enemies with his web.

Less choices, less fun. I don't want to play a MOBA, and I've never really been such a big fan of WoW's PvP game, either. This sucks.

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Simond
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Reply #497 on: April 04, 2014, 12:48:57 PM

The funniest thing in the last page or so is Paelos & Rendakor both saying the changes suck, but for completely opposite reasons.

Me? I'm waiting until I actually play it before I decide (I'm fully expecting a bunch of the perks to get nerfed), but I'd have to agree that the healing changes do look regressive and dumb as hell at first glance.

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Rendakor
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Reply #498 on: April 04, 2014, 01:09:51 PM

I'm unlikely to play it unless they send beta invites to people without active WoW subs, so judging it based on the notes is all I've got. None of the upcoming MMOs really excite me so I was kinda hoping WoW would get it's shit together now that Blizzard is focusing on it again instead of Titan. That, uh, hasn't happened.

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Paelos
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Reply #499 on: April 04, 2014, 02:08:27 PM

I was hoping they would move away from the tanking model that's basically run off anybody who tanked in the past. Looks unlikely, since they are doubling down on the stat changes.

None of this changes the fact that it's all window dressing on very little actual content.

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Simond
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Reply #500 on: April 04, 2014, 02:32:06 PM


"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Paelos
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Reply #501 on: April 04, 2014, 02:57:07 PM

Should I just start with the fact there's no new races or classes, and they are rehashing TBC? Or do you want more for your trolling efforts?

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Simond
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Reply #502 on: April 04, 2014, 03:11:04 PM

And this is where I point out they're redoing every race except three(/one) and that the grand total of zones which are going to be even vaguely similar to TBC comes to maybe two (and I suspect Taladar/Terrokar is going to be quite different anyway).

I mean, you do know that two of the TBC zones straight up don't exist in WoD, right? And most of the ones that do are wildly different. I mean, unless you are some sort of congenital cretin you cannot possibly look at 'tropical, carnivorous rainforest' and think 'Yep, that's the Hellfire Peninsula I remember".

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Paelos
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Reply #503 on: April 04, 2014, 03:20:23 PM

They redid everything in Cataclysm too. How'd that turn out again? Oh right, it was panned and they lost the most subs ever. Or like how they've redone all the raids before, or the dungeons, or various other redos.

I don't know how I can point out that redoing content for the umpteenth time by Blizzard counts as new. They do not get credit for updating models 8 years after the fact. But no, even more than that we're reusing the same Big Bad, and we're doing it in another semi-close version of a place you may have seen. Oh the joy! What adventures we'll have in this fucked up timeline.

You're the resident fanboi for this nonsense, so keep shining on there, but when even Rokal is questioning the content of this xpac, you look ridiculous. MOP was at the very least original. This isn't.

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Rendakor
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Reply #504 on: April 04, 2014, 03:46:19 PM

New race skins don't count as content.

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Simond
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Reply #505 on: April 04, 2014, 03:47:17 PM

They redid everything in Cataclysm too.
So you do think "tropical rainforest" = "hellfire-blasted rubble"?

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Sjofn
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Reply #506 on: April 04, 2014, 04:33:53 PM

Whether you agree with Paelos or not on the "retread" thing (and for the record, I don't think it's a retread of TBC ... the attraction of the new areas is going to be "this is what orcplanet looked like before everything got totally ruined, neat" not "Outland: AGAIN!"), that is how it comes across to a lot of people, and that's the problem. You can stamp your foot that it'll look different all you want, but for people who wandered off and were glancing over this expansion thinking about maybe coming back, the first impression is going to be "I already WENT to Outland. And I thought they killed Garrosh already. No new races or classes? They want me to pay how much for this?!"

And for people like me, it's also "fuck I am so fucking sick of orcorcorcorcorcorcs." Orcs are the new trolls.

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Paelos
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Reply #507 on: April 04, 2014, 04:46:51 PM

Sjofn has the right of it. Even if it turns out totally different, it comes off like they're redoing stuff because the idea itself is ridiculous.

Why not create a new island based expansion with Pirates and boats? It would draw in people who like WoW and pirates. But no, we get this instead.

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #508 on: April 04, 2014, 06:59:37 PM

The entire idea for the expansion is creatively bankrupt.  Any efforts created toward that goal are already tainted by proxy.

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Ingmar
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Reply #509 on: April 04, 2014, 07:40:32 PM

Time travel is the ultimate in "we're out of ideas".

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Rokal
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Reply #510 on: April 04, 2014, 08:48:40 PM

I was hoping they would move away from the tanking model that's basically run off anybody who tanked in the past. Looks unlikely, since they are doubling down on the stat changes.

It's entirely possible that, according to metrics that aren't "do tanks want to run LFR when flex offers a similar & superior experience?", the active mitigation model was well-liked by the majority of the playerbase.
Fabricated
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Reply #511 on: April 04, 2014, 08:49:46 PM

There's a lot of interesting places they could've taken the story but a weirdo alternate timeline Draenor isn't that interesting and even if they redeem and/or kill off Garrosh early he was a really uninteresting character who was unlikable in the bad way.

You could've done a really crazy Emerald Dream expansion with a giant crazy plant worlds, or a pirate/high seas themed expansion in whatever south of the maelstrom, or get with the crazy spelljammer shit beyond even TBC and have us fighting the Titans in space on a mechanical planet, or just start wrapping up the fucking burning legion and have us go kill them off in Argus or where-ever

but nah, let's just do the time warp so we can easily handwave away everything in the end and declare the expansion a wash story wise outside of killing Valen (btw he dies I guess in WoD because lol Alliance can't have a near god for a faction leader) while trying to say "hey folks remember TBC? Huh? Do ya? Yeah this is like that place again but before it got all fucked up. Hey hardcore people who never quit here's some knob slobbering we're 100% sure won't drive away our far more valuable customers this time. Don't worry, we got this."

If your new expansions keep typically consisting of ripping out systems you've introduced in the more recent expansions before it you are complete fuckups.

edit: also the Garrison thing is completely lol-worthy because it's another grindy daily thing that'll be used for this expansion and then never ever ever touched again afterwards as people quickly level past it. People at least see questing content, dungeons, and raids from old expansions either while leveling or retro-running for transmogs or to fuck around on alts/etc. The time they spent on the 5-mans, questing, and raids in MoP will be justified in the future. The tillers won't be.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 09:01:48 PM by Fabricated »

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Rendakor
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Reply #512 on: April 04, 2014, 09:21:11 PM

Yea thematically this expansion makes no sense. We've been waiting for Emerald Dream since WotLK, and figured with the work they did in Cata they'd easily have the tech to phase the whole world into the Dream. Instead we got Pandas (which felt about as random as a pirate expansion would feel to me), and now this. And while Simond has a point that the zones aren't going to look much like their TBC counterparts, that's actually kinda worse. They get all of the bad press of "reusing content lulz" without saving any development time by actually reusing content.

Garrosh is such a shit character, who never should have been anything more than a bit of backstory in TBC as "Grom's pussy kid". Instead, he's been a major focus of 3 expansions now: becoming Warchief (and killing the cool Tauren guy) in Cata, endboss of MoP and endboss again maybe or something whatever in WoD. It's the whole Thrall thing but like, a dickhead instead of Jesus Sue.

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luckton
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Reply #513 on: April 05, 2014, 01:49:50 AM

Data mining of the Alpha client has begun.  MMO-Champ and Wowhead have articles up now.

The new glyphs are neat, and the new enchantments + stat lines confirm a lot of the new special stats that are coming down the pike (Lifesteal, Readiness, Multistrike, Avoidence, etc.)

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Simond
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Reply #514 on: April 05, 2014, 03:18:10 AM

Quote
Shadowmoon Valley

    The Tainted Woods
    Akama's Scar
    The Iron March
    Grommar
    Gar'mak Quarry
    [PH] Alliance Bastion
        [PH] Alliance Bastion Lvl 1
        [PH] Alliance Bastion Lvl 2
        [PH] Alliance Bastion Lvl 3
    The Burial Fields
    Shaz'gul
    Light's Fall
    Teluuna Observatory
    Starfall Outpost
    Gul'var
    Watcher's Den
    Secluded Glade
    [PH] - SMV - Alliance Garrison
    West Camp
    [UNUSED]Hidey-Hole
    Gloomshade Grove
    The Shadow Rise
    Indentation Landing
    Twilight Glade
    Den of Despair
    Terrace of the Stars
    Shadowmoon Overlook
    Mount Teluuna
    Vindicator Ledge
    Darktide Roost
    Plains of Serenity
    Moonflower Valley
    Embaari Village
    Karabor
    Path of the Light
    Gardens of Eternity
    Tranquil Court
    Amphitheater of Echoes
    Karabor Harbor
    Palemoon Village
    Pilgrim's Sojourn
    Bloodthorn Cave
    The Verdant Mire
    Ancestor's Grotto
    Waning Crescent
    Moonwillow Peak
    Bloodthorn Hill
    The Nightmarsh
    Dyvari Overgrowth
    Glade of Shadows
    Shadowmoon Mine


Gorgrond

    Explosion Town [NOT TEMP NAME]
    Bastion Rise
    Laughing Skull
    Tailthrasher Basin
    Skullchief's Stand
    Prototype Proving Grounds
    Blackrock Station
    The Forgotten Caves
    Blackrock Pipeworks
    Dry Riverbed
    Belcher Cauldron
    Draenataur Cavern
    Stonemaul Slave Camp
    Stonemaul Slave Mine
    Spinebloom Spires
    Gorgrond Garrison Area
    Smokebelcher Depot
    Blackrock Foundry
    Lake Oasis
    Gronn Cave
    Highland Pass
    Elemental Hollow
    Blackrock Shipyard
    Tankworks
    Shrubby Plateau
    Salt Flats
    Blackrock Foundry Base
    Gorgrond Pass
    The Iron Front
    The Screaming Geyser
    Emberfall Lake
    Ulon Oasis
    The Binding Trench
    Spineling Crevice
    The Sulfic Refuge
    Canyon Pass
    Throne of Stonemaul
    The Broken Crater
    Thaelin's Retreat
    Blook's Overlook


Spires of Arak

    Lower Quarter
    Grand Spire
    The Overlook
    [PH] Spires Coast
    Spires Garrison
    [PH] Spires Dry Region
    [PH] SpiresThorny Region
    Lower Skettis
    Dreadtalon Peak
    Ravenskar
    Veil Terokk
    Living Explosion [PH]

   
Tanaan Jungle

    No subzones


Nagrand

    Sabermaw
    Warsong Lookout
    Gol'gor
    Wor'var
    Prowler Ridge
    Yrel's Watch
    Riverside Post
    The Stones of Prophecy
    Lok-rath
    Nagrand Corral
    Kil'sorrow Fortress
    Grommashar
    Gates of Grommashar
    Ironfist Harbor
    Clowder Rise
    Ancestral Grounds
    Ring of Trials
    Telaar
    Sabermaw Den
    Telaari Station

Faralohn

    Brawnbelly Barracks
    Digger Flats
    The Pits
    Blightstone Quarry
    The Iron Tower
    [PH] Test Zone
    [PH] Test Zone 2


Grommar

    The Shadow Tower
    Shadowmoon Grotto
    Grommar Hold
    Grommar Docks


Bloodmaul Slag Mines

    No subzones


[PH] Heroes Through Time

    No subzones


Draenor Auchindoun

    No subzones


Shadowmoon Burial Grounds

    No subzones


Talador

    No subzones


Blasted Lands

    Shattered Beachhead
    Shattered Landing
    The Shattered Front
    Okril'lon Hold
    The Forge Grounds
    Dreadmaul Rise


[PH] Ashran - World PvP Zone

    Ashran - Center Lane
    [PH] Ashran - The Arena


Blackrock Shipyard

    No subzones


Bonetown Scenario

    No subzones


Blackrock Train Depot

    No subzones


Spires of Arak

    No subzones


Highmaul Raid

    No subzones


Tanaan Jungle

    The Dark Portal
    Heartblood Tangle
    The Bleeding Altar
    Kargathar Proving Grounds
    Heartblood
    Umbral Halls
    Blackrock Quarry
    The Path of Glory
    Iron Bastion


Blackrock Foundry

    No subzones


[PH] Ashran [TRANSITION ZONE]

    No subzones


Remains of Xandros

    No subzones


Defense of Karabor

    No subzones

   
Frostfire Ridge

    Frostwind Dunes
    Throm'var
    Daggermaw Ravine
    The Savage Crag
    Icescar Boneyard
    Lashwind Cleft
    The Cracking Plains
    Grombolash
    The Boneslag
    Stonefang Outpost
    Icewind Drifts
    Grom'gar
    The First Anvil
    Ascent of Frostfire
    Refuse Pit
    The Ice Forge
    The Forge Gates
    Giant's Fall
    Grimfrost Hill
    Turgall's Den
    Sootstained Mines
    Sootstained Mining Camp
    Grulloc's Lair
    Bladespire Fortress
    Circle of Blood
    Hall of the Great Hunt
    Wor'gol
    Farseer's Rock
    Bladespire Throne
    Reeg'ak's Nest
    Melted Burrow
    Gormaul Watch
    Eastwatch
    Mor'dul Tower
    Pit of the Devourer
    Frostboar Drifts
    Butcher's Rise
    Gronnstalkers' Cache
    Pool of Visions
    Bladespire Ravine
    Stonefang Ridge
    Thunder Pass
    Windswept Lowland
    Bloodmaul Territory
    Bloodmaul Slag Mines
    Iron Siegeworks
    Bones of Agurak
    Agurak's Fall
    Frostwall
    Snowfall Alcove
    Coldsnap Bluffs
    Frost Den
    Frostbite Hollow
    Sleeper's Lair
    Bloodmaul Stronghold
    Thunder Pass
    Ruins of Ata'gar
    The Gloomspire
    Iceblister Den
    Darkspear's Edge
    Forbidden Glacier
    Blade's Edge Mountain
    Southwind Cliffs
    The Bleeding Mountain
    The Burning Glacier
    Wolf's Stand
    Iron Waystation
    Lowland Cave


Talador

    Gul'rok
    Shattrath Metropolitan Area
    Court of Souls
    Liadrin's Watch
    Deathweb Hollow
    Telmor
    Aruuna
    Anchorite's Sojourn
    Veil Shadar
    Duskfall Island
    The Pilgrim's Road
    Terokkar Refuge
    Sharptusk Lake
    Kuuros Farm
    [PH] Talador Beach
    [PH] Bluff Base
    Tuurem
    [PH] Logging Camp
    Aruuna Crystal Mine
    Light's Rest
    Tomb of Souls
    Shattrath
    Jorune Mine
    Ango'rosh Ruins
    Seat of Depravity
    Sunsworn Camp
    Retribution Point
    The Burning Front
    Exarch's Refuge
    Garden of K'ure
    Aruuna Desolation
    Tomb of Lights

Totally the same zones as TBC with nothing new.

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
luckton
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Reply #515 on: April 05, 2014, 04:46:26 AM


"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Malakili
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Reply #516 on: April 05, 2014, 05:01:37 AM

I agree with Sjofn and Paelos.  The main problem is that for someone like me who skipped MoP (my first missed expansion for WoW, even after not really playing it "seriously" since TBC) this expansion doesn't really have that "come see all this cool new stuff we've been doing since you were gone."  Hell, I've been known to occasionally cave on WoW and resub on a whim over the years, and a new expansion could tip me towards it still (even if I'd have to go back and pick up MoP also) if they got it right.

But in the end all this expansion announcement has done since the beginning is confirm for me that there isn't anything interesting to see here.  Whether or not that's a perfect analysis of the situation, with Diablo 3 being "fixed", Hex coming, and more games than time to begin with I need to at least be excited for something to give it a look at this point.
Tannhauser
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Reply #517 on: April 05, 2014, 05:22:56 AM

At least with MoP there were folks out there clamoring for pandas.  I didn't hear anyone go "Hey, remember that lame place the orcs come from?  I wish we could go back there with some sort of handwavey bullshit."

It just feels to me like they are out of ideas and are going in circles. 
Paelos
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Reply #518 on: April 05, 2014, 06:36:25 AM

I was hoping they would move away from the tanking model that's basically run off anybody who tanked in the past. Looks unlikely, since they are doubling down on the stat changes.

It's entirely possible that, according to metrics that aren't "do tanks want to run LFR when flex offers a similar & superior experience?", the active mitigation model was well-liked by the majority of the playerbase.

Ok bear with me a bit here, because you've become more realistic about this kind of stuff over the last couple years. It doesn't matter that the current people playing tanks like something, if the overall population of tanks including people who used to tank stopped doing it. Of course the people still playing tanks like it or at least tolerate it. You can't use that as a standard. The Standard should be where the majority of your playerbase encounters your content, and that's LFR. If tanks don't want to even bother with LFR, or if tanks as a population have fallen off so that LFR can't function? That's the biggest problem of the game, and the biggest problem to retention.

If Flex is the answer, and I think it could be, then you have to remove LFR and make it the standard. If you're keeping LFR, you can't make the more demanding jobs like healing and tanking even worse to play mechanically.

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Simond
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Reply #519 on: April 05, 2014, 06:58:58 AM

The main problem is that for someone like me who skipped MoP
I'd say the main problem there is that you skipped a very good expansion.

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Rendakor
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Reply #520 on: April 05, 2014, 07:08:55 AM

Nowhere in his post does it say he skipped WotLK.

"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
Mithas
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Reply #521 on: April 05, 2014, 07:26:25 AM

Nowhere in his post does it say he skipped WotLK.

MoP all in all was a pretty good expansion. It gets a lot of grief (lol pandas), but it contains the single best leveling experience so far in WoW. It just really sucks to do twice.

They also did have to patch in the fun, but that seems par for the course now.
Paelos
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Reply #522 on: April 05, 2014, 07:33:41 AM

There's nothing inherently bad about MoP other than the fact they started it poorly as they do all the xpacs. The daily grind with raid point items hidden behind factions that were unlocked by other factions? That was one of their more bone-headed decisions. I would hope they wouldn't make that mistake again in WoD, but they probably will. Cycle continues.

That being said, there was very little that MoP brought that was great, or wasn't implemented at the back end of Cataclysm as scramble to get back subs. The absolute best thing I think MoP gave the populace was pet battles, which opened up an entirely new addictive element to the game. Flex raiding on the back end is also a great idea.

Overall Mists was slower to be adopted, and 2013 saw 1.9 sub losses in the first two quarters. It was okay, but it wasn't very good by any stretch.

EDIT: Personally, I played for about 3-4 months and then quit. And I got the xpac for basically free by D3 AH sales at the time. My experience was that my guild and friends were already gone by month 3. I came back at the back end of 2013, and it was better, but Timeless Isle got old when I kitted out my character and LFR lost it's luster.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 07:36:07 AM by Paelos »

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Simond
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Reply #523 on: April 05, 2014, 09:33:48 AM

That being said, there was very little that MoP brought that was great,
The content?

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Selby
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2963


Reply #524 on: April 05, 2014, 09:36:31 AM

That being said, there was very little that MoP brought that was great,
The content?
After you hit 90, there was pretty much nothing interesting to do unless you had a guild or group of people to play with.  Killed my desire to play pretty quickly.
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