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Author Topic: Marvel's Daredevil  (Read 20724 times)
jgsugden
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Reply #280 on: January 19, 2017, 02:32:02 PM

It isn't the coordination that is a problem: It is the rights and money.  The coordination is an excuse.  They know what is going to happen in the movies far in advance.  it gets tweaked, but the broad tstrokes are there.  They could use that information when crafting TV.  Further, TV could plan out some things and let the movie folks know so that it can be referenced.  Hell, all you have to do is tweak a line or two in Civl War where the speaker has their back to the camera (no reshoot, just redub a line) and you'd have tied in Agents of Shield and the Netflix sufficiently with refernces to vigilantes in NY and a reference to the growing number of metahumans in the world addressing MAoS and the Inhumans.  It might have been slightly clumsy, but it would have been better than having the Civil War movie ignore something that should have been a key discussion point in the accords: The global explosion of powered individuals.

The movies are the MCU.  Netflix is good fan faction.  MAoS is like fan faction being written by dozens of different people.

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Khaldun
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Reply #281 on: January 19, 2017, 04:45:11 PM

You know, it's tricky. I have to say I have liked all three series so far and yet I haven't liked them. Part of it is that all of them have terribly dull stretches in the middle. But it's also that each of them is just slightly too afraid of the more florid or exotic dimensions of the superhero, which is possibly a production-dictated decisions as much as an aesthetic one. (e.g., the more spectacular/exaggerated a comic-book movie gets, the more your effects budget has to grow or you end up looking cheap).
MrHat
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Reply #282 on: January 19, 2017, 05:03:15 PM

You know, it's tricky. I have to say I have liked all three series so far and yet I haven't liked them. Part of it is that all of them have terribly dull stretches in the middle. But it's also that each of them is just slightly too afraid of the more florid or exotic dimensions of the superhero, which is possibly a production-dictated decisions as much as an aesthetic one. (e.g., the more spectacular/exaggerated a comic-book movie gets, the more your effects budget has to grow or you end up looking cheap).


I agree with this. Will have to wait and see how fantastical they go with Iron Fist (March 2017 IIRC).
eldaec
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Reply #283 on: January 24, 2017, 02:49:06 AM

Hell, all you have to do is tweak a line or two in Civl War where the speaker has their back to the camera (no reshoot, just redub a line) and you'd have tied in Agents of Shield and the Netflix sufficiently with refernces to vigilantes in NY and a reference to the growing number of metahumans in the world addressing MAoS and the Inhumans. 

I am pleased they don't do this - it would stand out like a sore thumb and immeadiately bring to mind a whole bunch of stuff from the tv shows that is not relevant to the story at hand.

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Sky
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Reply #284 on: January 24, 2017, 10:25:08 AM

I'm ok with them leaving out all the "we can't say mutant" stuff from Agents of Shield. As a 70s/80s kid who grew up on X-Men, it constantly annoys me. I wish Marvel could get its legal house in order, because mutants raise all ships; using mutants in the other franchises will not reduce butts in seats for their garbage X-Men flicks.


HaemishM
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Reply #285 on: January 24, 2017, 10:39:17 AM

Having mutants wouldn't help the MCU at all. The X-Men in the current Marvel comic continuity have no real place or purpose for being there. It's pretty terrible.

eldaec
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Reply #286 on: January 24, 2017, 03:20:14 PM

Further, the biggest problem I have with Marvel comics right now is too many panels wasted 'crossing over' to find out what characters who don't matter to this story think about affairs.

If I were running things, I'd have taken the opportunity of the most recent apocalypse to wall mutants off in a separate continuity. Would have cut the crossover issues in half at a stroke.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
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Teleku
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Reply #287 on: January 24, 2017, 03:30:19 PM

Totally agree.  I really like the current Marvel Movie universe because it lacks mutants.  Superheroes are still rare'ish and special!  In the marvel comics, fucking half the population is powered now.  And yet, for some reason, people still act racist/prejudice towards mutants no matter what they do, but people who got their powers through crazy experiments or whatever are totally awesome!  The civil rights angle makes no sense at this point, and they water down everything. 

Putting them into their own universe where its just x-men/mutants and nobody else would do wonders for the storytelling.  So I actually like that it's happened in the movie world because Fox just owns the X-men rights.  They've done a lot of terrible shit (along with some good) with it, but it's a much better setup.

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Khaldun
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Reply #288 on: January 24, 2017, 03:51:25 PM

Both DC and Marvel would be bad models for films and TV in this specific sense--a world with THAT many super-powered people has no excuse being portrayed as "mostly just like our world, only slightly different". Busiek's Astro City is one of the few conventional-ish superhero comics to recognize how thoroughly different a world like that would be even within fairly conventional genre parameters.

The kind of storytelling you have to do when there's one hundred or more superpowered people in tights running around Manhattan and the chance of getting hurt in a superhero battle is as high as the chance of getting hit by a car while crossing the street in Manhattan (unfortunately: high) is different. You can get away with it in the comics but not in movies that are meant to visually invoke "the world we live in"--think how much all the Marvel movies depend at least somewhat on the relatively exotic nature of the superpowered character vis-a-vis all non-supers they encounter. Doctor Strange doesn't work if all non-magicians are like, "Oh, pfff, magic, yeah I know all about that, the Weather Channel had a thing about Shuma-Gorath flinging deadly ectoplasm onto Baton Rouge yesterday and I wondered why the Louisiana National Guard didn't just cast the Flames of Faltorah at it". Spider-Man in the movies doesn't work if the kids in his high school all go, "hey I heard Darkhawk actually goes to our rival high school, and Nova too, big fucking deal that Spidey gets seen around here. Whatevs."
Sky
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Reply #289 on: January 25, 2017, 08:23:49 AM

Did you guys see Fox greenlit an X-Men tv show?  why so serious?

I mostly like what I was reading with the All-New X-Men and the whole Cyclops/Magneto/Emma Frost/Magik New School X-Men idea. I'm way less picky about comics than you guys, though.

HaemishM
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Reply #290 on: January 25, 2017, 08:59:14 AM

Yeah, that book is dead now as is Cyclops. Don't worry - I haven't spoiled anything, as they didn't reveal how he died or how the new X-Men status quo was setup after Secret Wars. The X-Men books have all gone downhill since that one (and I didn't like that one much, but I did love the art).

Ironwood
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Reply #291 on: January 25, 2017, 09:07:10 AM

I remember and X-Men TV series already with Banshee and Emma Frost teaching some retards.

But apparently I dreamt it because I can't find it on imdb or wiki ?  Have I gone insane ?

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HaemishM
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Reply #292 on: January 25, 2017, 09:17:11 AM

It was called Generation X. Fox tried to get it started as a series but they only ever made a pretty meh pilot 2-hour movie with Matt Frewer as the villain. I think I have it recorded on VHS somewhere but I think I only watched it once. It was based on the comic of the same name from the 90's.

There is also Legion, which is starting on FX in February. It's based on Legion (schizo son of Prof. Xavier) comics, but the TV version is not in the same universe as the X-Men so there won't be any Prof. X. It's starring the guy who played Matthew on Downton Abbey and is created by Noah Hawley, the guy who created the Fargo TV series. And again, it won't be related to the Fox X-Men TV show.

Khaldun
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Reply #293 on: January 26, 2017, 10:52:31 AM

You wonder why, in some sense, they don't just independently go with the idea of a mentally ill person who has a thousand different superpowered personalities. It's not as if that's specific enough to bring a lawsuit--Grant Morrison's Crazy Jane character in the Doom Patrol had almost the same schtick as Legion/David Haller and they were introduced within about four years of each other. If there's no X-Men and no Professor X and none of that, they don't gain much of anything by using this character specifically. It's not as if the character is extraordinarily popular on his own.

It's such a delicate balance. Overpopulated superhero universes only work in the comics, not as adaptations; completely unpopulated ones are best re-imagined as something other than superheroes per se. (e.g., if you're going to just have one main superpowered character, then lose all the other trappings--the costumes, the secret identities, etc., so you're able to tell a story without heavy genre obligations.
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