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Author Topic: Marvel's Daredevil  (Read 30710 times)
jgsugden
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Reply #280 on: January 19, 2017, 02:32:02 PM

It isn't the coordination that is a problem: It is the rights and money.  The coordination is an excuse.  They know what is going to happen in the movies far in advance.  it gets tweaked, but the broad tstrokes are there.  They could use that information when crafting TV.  Further, TV could plan out some things and let the movie folks know so that it can be referenced.  Hell, all you have to do is tweak a line or two in Civl War where the speaker has their back to the camera (no reshoot, just redub a line) and you'd have tied in Agents of Shield and the Netflix sufficiently with refernces to vigilantes in NY and a reference to the growing number of metahumans in the world addressing MAoS and the Inhumans.  It might have been slightly clumsy, but it would have been better than having the Civil War movie ignore something that should have been a key discussion point in the accords: The global explosion of powered individuals.

The movies are the MCU.  Netflix is good fan faction.  MAoS is like fan faction being written by dozens of different people.

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Khaldun
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Reply #281 on: January 19, 2017, 04:45:11 PM

You know, it's tricky. I have to say I have liked all three series so far and yet I haven't liked them. Part of it is that all of them have terribly dull stretches in the middle. But it's also that each of them is just slightly too afraid of the more florid or exotic dimensions of the superhero, which is possibly a production-dictated decisions as much as an aesthetic one. (e.g., the more spectacular/exaggerated a comic-book movie gets, the more your effects budget has to grow or you end up looking cheap).
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Reply #282 on: January 19, 2017, 05:03:15 PM

You know, it's tricky. I have to say I have liked all three series so far and yet I haven't liked them. Part of it is that all of them have terribly dull stretches in the middle. But it's also that each of them is just slightly too afraid of the more florid or exotic dimensions of the superhero, which is possibly a production-dictated decisions as much as an aesthetic one. (e.g., the more spectacular/exaggerated a comic-book movie gets, the more your effects budget has to grow or you end up looking cheap).


I agree with this. Will have to wait and see how fantastical they go with Iron Fist (March 2017 IIRC).
eldaec
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Reply #283 on: January 24, 2017, 02:49:06 AM

Hell, all you have to do is tweak a line or two in Civl War where the speaker has their back to the camera (no reshoot, just redub a line) and you'd have tied in Agents of Shield and the Netflix sufficiently with refernces to vigilantes in NY and a reference to the growing number of metahumans in the world addressing MAoS and the Inhumans. 

I am pleased they don't do this - it would stand out like a sore thumb and immeadiately bring to mind a whole bunch of stuff from the tv shows that is not relevant to the story at hand.

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Reply #284 on: January 24, 2017, 10:25:08 AM

I'm ok with them leaving out all the "we can't say mutant" stuff from Agents of Shield. As a 70s/80s kid who grew up on X-Men, it constantly annoys me. I wish Marvel could get its legal house in order, because mutants raise all ships; using mutants in the other franchises will not reduce butts in seats for their garbage X-Men flicks.


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Reply #285 on: January 24, 2017, 10:39:17 AM

Having mutants wouldn't help the MCU at all. The X-Men in the current Marvel comic continuity have no real place or purpose for being there. It's pretty terrible.

eldaec
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Reply #286 on: January 24, 2017, 03:20:14 PM

Further, the biggest problem I have with Marvel comics right now is too many panels wasted 'crossing over' to find out what characters who don't matter to this story think about affairs.

If I were running things, I'd have taken the opportunity of the most recent apocalypse to wall mutants off in a separate continuity. Would have cut the crossover issues in half at a stroke.

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Reply #287 on: January 24, 2017, 03:30:19 PM

Totally agree.  I really like the current Marvel Movie universe because it lacks mutants.  Superheroes are still rare'ish and special!  In the marvel comics, fucking half the population is powered now.  And yet, for some reason, people still act racist/prejudice towards mutants no matter what they do, but people who got their powers through crazy experiments or whatever are totally awesome!  The civil rights angle makes no sense at this point, and they water down everything. 

Putting them into their own universe where its just x-men/mutants and nobody else would do wonders for the storytelling.  So I actually like that it's happened in the movie world because Fox just owns the X-men rights.  They've done a lot of terrible shit (along with some good) with it, but it's a much better setup.

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Khaldun
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Reply #288 on: January 24, 2017, 03:51:25 PM

Both DC and Marvel would be bad models for films and TV in this specific sense--a world with THAT many super-powered people has no excuse being portrayed as "mostly just like our world, only slightly different". Busiek's Astro City is one of the few conventional-ish superhero comics to recognize how thoroughly different a world like that would be even within fairly conventional genre parameters.

The kind of storytelling you have to do when there's one hundred or more superpowered people in tights running around Manhattan and the chance of getting hurt in a superhero battle is as high as the chance of getting hit by a car while crossing the street in Manhattan (unfortunately: high) is different. You can get away with it in the comics but not in movies that are meant to visually invoke "the world we live in"--think how much all the Marvel movies depend at least somewhat on the relatively exotic nature of the superpowered character vis-a-vis all non-supers they encounter. Doctor Strange doesn't work if all non-magicians are like, "Oh, pfff, magic, yeah I know all about that, the Weather Channel had a thing about Shuma-Gorath flinging deadly ectoplasm onto Baton Rouge yesterday and I wondered why the Louisiana National Guard didn't just cast the Flames of Faltorah at it". Spider-Man in the movies doesn't work if the kids in his high school all go, "hey I heard Darkhawk actually goes to our rival high school, and Nova too, big fucking deal that Spidey gets seen around here. Whatevs."
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Reply #289 on: January 25, 2017, 08:23:49 AM

Did you guys see Fox greenlit an X-Men tv show?  why so serious?

I mostly like what I was reading with the All-New X-Men and the whole Cyclops/Magneto/Emma Frost/Magik New School X-Men idea. I'm way less picky about comics than you guys, though.

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Reply #290 on: January 25, 2017, 08:59:14 AM

Yeah, that book is dead now as is Cyclops. Don't worry - I haven't spoiled anything, as they didn't reveal how he died or how the new X-Men status quo was setup after Secret Wars. The X-Men books have all gone downhill since that one (and I didn't like that one much, but I did love the art).

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Reply #291 on: January 25, 2017, 09:07:10 AM

I remember and X-Men TV series already with Banshee and Emma Frost teaching some retards.

But apparently I dreamt it because I can't find it on imdb or wiki ?  Have I gone insane ?

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HaemishM
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Reply #292 on: January 25, 2017, 09:17:11 AM

It was called Generation X. Fox tried to get it started as a series but they only ever made a pretty meh pilot 2-hour movie with Matt Frewer as the villain. I think I have it recorded on VHS somewhere but I think I only watched it once. It was based on the comic of the same name from the 90's.

There is also Legion, which is starting on FX in February. It's based on Legion (schizo son of Prof. Xavier) comics, but the TV version is not in the same universe as the X-Men so there won't be any Prof. X. It's starring the guy who played Matthew on Downton Abbey and is created by Noah Hawley, the guy who created the Fargo TV series. And again, it won't be related to the Fox X-Men TV show.

Khaldun
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Reply #293 on: January 26, 2017, 10:52:31 AM

You wonder why, in some sense, they don't just independently go with the idea of a mentally ill person who has a thousand different superpowered personalities. It's not as if that's specific enough to bring a lawsuit--Grant Morrison's Crazy Jane character in the Doom Patrol had almost the same schtick as Legion/David Haller and they were introduced within about four years of each other. If there's no X-Men and no Professor X and none of that, they don't gain much of anything by using this character specifically. It's not as if the character is extraordinarily popular on his own.

It's such a delicate balance. Overpopulated superhero universes only work in the comics, not as adaptations; completely unpopulated ones are best re-imagined as something other than superheroes per se. (e.g., if you're going to just have one main superpowered character, then lose all the other trappings--the costumes, the secret identities, etc., so you're able to tell a story without heavy genre obligations.
jgsugden
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Reply #294 on: September 20, 2018, 12:06:31 PM

Returning October 19th for Season 3 - Nice.  I expected we'd have to wait until December.  This will be the 4th season of a show released this year for the Netflix MCU.  It looks like they're aiming to put these characters out about once every 15 months going forward based upon when we've seen what we saw and how they're scheduling filming.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 12:15:43 PM by jgsugden »

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taolurker
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Reply #295 on: September 26, 2018, 10:08:01 AM



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jgsugden
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Reply #296 on: October 20, 2018, 05:50:20 AM

Back and generally getting good reviews.

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NowhereMan
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Reply #297 on: October 20, 2018, 04:02:40 PM

Marthoned this since the fiance isn't back in town yet awesome, for real It was a hell of a step up from Iron Fist and even Luke Cage. I have 0 complaints beyond the pacing of the final confrontation being a bit rushed but even that kind of works. Just a damn fine piece of work and it makes me feel a lot less bad about them cancelling IF just because it highlighted what they could be achieving.

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jgsugden
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Reply #298 on: October 25, 2018, 09:15:52 AM

The 'annual' hall fight in Episode 4 was, technically speaking, Amazeballs.  Still in the first half of the season, but it is really good so far.  It is pacing as one of the best seasons of Marvel yet.

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eldaec
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Reply #299 on: October 31, 2018, 03:26:41 PM

This is way better than the last season.

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jgsugden
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Reply #300 on: November 29, 2018, 08:47:51 PM

Fuck.

Reportedly canceled.

https://deadline.com/2018/11/daredevil-canceled-netflix-3-seasons-1202511521/amp/

The character may live on, but how is unclear.

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Hawkbit
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Reply #301 on: November 29, 2018, 09:14:00 PM

See, it's kinda fucked. One of two things are likely happening.

1. They're basing renewals solely on licence, which is not controllable by viewers. In that case, the entire Marvel suite is going to Disneyflix.
2. They're basing renewals solely on viewership, which is fucked because too many modern companies base their decisions entirely on data, not data+ response.

I haven't watched Daredevil S3 yet because I'm too busy. I will watch it in the next six months as I have time to commit, but not now. I suspect those immediate viewership numbers are all that matter to the groups that determine renewals. And if that's the case, then Netflix is pretty fucked in the long term.

Unless it's based on my #1, it's a dumb decision.
Mandella
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Reply #302 on: November 29, 2018, 10:01:25 PM

At this point, I'm going with Disney fuckery of some sort, even it it's just Netflix reading the writing on the wall. From what I understand even if Disney can't pull their contract for shows already licensed, they have no plans to license any *more* characters, which includes villains and sidekicks.

I'm totally just talking out of my butt here, but I was willing to accept that Iron Fist and Luke Cage were yanked due to viewership, but if Daredevil wasn't getting views then I don't think anybody is.

Either way, I'd expect Jessica Jones and Punisher to be cut after their respective next seasons (Punisher already filmed, IIRC), and Netflix gets out of Marvel altogether.

Damn shame too. I enjoyed (mostly) the whole shebang.
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Reply #303 on: November 29, 2018, 10:53:58 PM

I expect they'll either move the shows to Disneyflix or reboot them on that platform in a few years. Of course, a lot of that may depend on what they do with the MCU after Avengers 4. If they do a significant reboot, I could see them making new Disneyflix shows that can cross over into the movies like they should have been doing all along.

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Reply #304 on: November 30, 2018, 12:51:12 AM

Stop after 3rd episode.  VDO was the most interesting but it was all pretty cringy and Catholic trope boring.
jgsugden
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Reply #305 on: November 30, 2018, 10:55:33 AM

Punisher and Jessica are obvioulsy canceled if DD was canceled.  They'll just wait to announce it until after their next seasons. However, as I bet they expect people to drop after watching those, I suspect they'll drag out the release of those seasons.

Marvel was charging a licensing fee too high for Netflix to continue paying.  From my perspective, this may transition me into a 'subscribe for the summer only' approach with Netflix.  There are still Netflix shows I want to see, but I am not thinking of any that I have to see right away. Altered Carbon, Black Mirror and Stranger Things are not exactly urgent needs for me... well, maybe Stranger Things.  Maybe that release date will determine when I come back.

My hope is that Marvel does a 'New York' show on the new streaming service that has runs wth various characters in NY.  You could do the Netflix characters, Spider-man (yes - I know - but I'm talking about storylines not appropriate for a big screen that they want to tell and can film quckly), Moon Knight, etc...  You could tell Damage Control stories.  You could bring back minor characters from Agents of Shield or a movie (Abomination returns to Harlem?). 

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eldaec
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Reply #306 on: November 30, 2018, 03:55:43 PM

I suspect Netflix are confident enough in their product by now not to be afraid of people dropping subs for this.

They've had 13 seasons. A pretty good run all in all.

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Mandella
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Reply #307 on: December 01, 2018, 11:26:18 AM

Nice article from Mark Hughes over at Forbes on the cancellations.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes ... 7364d7196c

In short, it has nothing to do with ratings, and everything to do with Disney's new streaming service (surprise surprise). Even if Disney is not playing hardball, the execs at Netflix know there is no way they are going to be able to compete with the Mouse here, especially if they are going to have to go head to head with MCU versions of the characters, plus the fact that they won't get any more. Jessica Jones and Punisher will go out after their upcoming seasons.

He does make an interesting final point about the fans. He suspects that there is a strong overlap between "Folks who like Marvel shows" and "Folks who can't live without Netflix." Basically, they don't expect to lose many subs due to this.

I'll add my own editorial point and say I hope Disney sends Netflix a nice fruit basket and thank you card for test marketing their IP for them...
eldaec
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Reply #308 on: December 01, 2018, 03:34:11 PM

Aside from that overlap, Netflix is cheap as fuck, I doubt they lose many subs when anything ends

I expect they are far better served by continually rolling out new stuff that encourages different people to try the platform for the first time.

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HaemishM
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Reply #309 on: December 01, 2018, 05:17:38 PM

I expect they are far better served by continually rolling out new stuff that encourages different people to try the platform for the first time.

It's this. They have so many people making shows that don't or won't get bought by networks or even cable, they aren't going to suffer too much for losing these shows.

Cyrrex
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Reply #310 on: December 03, 2018, 12:47:11 AM

And much of what they produce is quite good, or at least good enough for me that I won't soon lack for any content.

Still, I lament the loss of MCU on Netflix.  Even at its low points, it is still decently produced super hero fun.  I want to say that Disney can go fuck itself with its streaming service and that I will never buy it, but then it occurred to me that the live action Star Wars stuff will end up there as well.  So I suppose the more honest truth is that it depends just how much good original content Disney puts up there.  I could give zero fucks about the movie licenses, it is the serial content that matters to me.

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Reply #311 on: December 03, 2018, 02:43:39 AM

Netflix is worth keeping for their in house productions, in my opinion. They have a lot of decent horror stuff you wouldn't otherwise see. That alone sells it for me. The kid stuff and wife tv are just gravy.

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eldaec
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Reply #312 on: December 03, 2018, 02:48:26 AM

I think it almost inevitable that I'll end up subscribed to Disney-flix.

Anyone with a family is practically guaranteed to get value from it.

They, and maybe HBO, are the only content producers that get a pass on having their own subscription platform.

Everyone else, on Netflix or it doesn't exist.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 05:18:51 AM by eldaec »

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Cyrrex
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Reply #313 on: December 03, 2018, 03:42:42 AM

I sorta want to agree regarding HBO, but I am an on/off subscriber for them.  I just think they need more content in general for a full time sub, which I believe costs more or less the same as Netflix around these parts.

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Reply #314 on: December 03, 2018, 11:12:40 AM

Netflix is worth keeping for their in house productions, in my opinion. They have a lot of decent horror stuff you wouldn't otherwise see. That alone sells it for me. The kid stuff and wife tv are just gravy.

Half my Netflix viewing lately has been foreign stuff: Hotel Beau Séjour out of Belgium, Transfers from France, 3% from Brazil - all quality entertainment.

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