Vaping: 2013-2014 Edition

[MahrinSkel]

Great, now they look like -gourmet- lightsabers. Seriously, how anyone's dropping 200 bucks on what's a fancy maglight with a voltage regulator is beyond me. Unless the art on it is gorgeous or something. Then I can dig it, but seriously folks, its a tube with technology from the 1860s doing basic electrical stuff.

There are still questions of quality of materials and machining, and the aesthetics are worth something as well.  That being said, something like the Rook or the Flip from that site are the kind of thing you buy to show off to other people, you don't need them any more than you need plexiglass windows and LED's on your PC, or custom paint on your car.

I'm almost certainly not going to buy the Rook, I'm a cheap bastard at heart who built his own PC's in beige boxes until 2005 (by then there were prettier cases that didn't cost significantly more).  But I can still appreciate the quality of the design.  Most tube mods are easily cloned because they are just threaded metal tubes with laser etching, and $200 is an insane amount to charge for that.

--Dave

[MahrinSkel]

Going two in a row to ask a question: How do you know when a tank coil needs replaced?  With old-school atomizers and cartos, the draw got tighter and the vapor thinner until you were basically getting nothing, but I've been using the same core in my X10 for nearly two weeks and I don't notice any difference.  Do the cores just last longer?

--Dave

[schild]

X10s are the chinese tanks that can use Protank Coils right?

[MahrinSkel]

X10s are the chinese tanks that can use Protank Coils right?

Yeah, look like the Smoktech glass DCT's, but with protank bottom coil cores and polycarb tanks.  You can use Evod or protank coils in them.  I've been using the one that came with it, and don't notice any real difference (maybe a bit less vapor, but way more than I would from a carto I had been using for the same length of time).

My other tanks didn't make it out before Lunar New Year (China is closed for that each year), so I've been using it exclusively.  Just wondering how I will know it's time to replace the coil.

--Dave

[schild]

When I used tanks like that I would force myself to change the coil once a week. That shit can get gunked up. It's possible you're simply using a high pg juice with no major gunky flavors in it so you're simply not having gunk issues. Or your taste buds are shot and its fucking gross.

Moral: Change the coil.

[MahrinSkel]

When I used tanks like that I would force myself to change the coil once a week. That shit can get gunked up. It's possible you're simply using a high pg juice with no major gunky flavors in it so you're simply not having gunk issues. Or your taste buds are shot and its fucking gross.

Moral: Change the coil.

I'll go ahead and give it a shot.  I'm on 75% PG with less than 10% flavoring (5-7% mostly, and those flavors are comparatively low-residue).  I'm also running pretty cool (6 watts on a 2.2 ohm coil), it may simply not be charring/crusting the way that the others did with a fresh battery.  I've got 25 spare cores, I had planned on those lasting a year (edit: but at roughly $0.80 each, it wouldn't bother me to change once a week).

--Dave

Edit2: Swapped for a new core, draw's a little easier, just enough more vapor to notice, flavor is a little more clear.  Not a major change, I think that once every two weeks is going to work.

[schild]

I would do once a week. I don't know what you're vaping when it gets gunked up, even if it's only a little bit.

[Fabricated]

[schild]

I don't get it.

[schild]

Neither here nor there but my juice brand is blowing up.

[Signe]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean but duck and cover.

[MahrinSkel]

Finally finished buying everything from FastTech and other places, my ecig collection is essentially finished for the next couple of years.  Thought I'd post a lineup:



Left to right: R80 ePipe with Silencer and REM tank, Hammer with Kick 2 and DBox Puritank, Liberty King with iClear30 (no regulation), Smoktech SID with X10, Vamo V5 with iClear30.  All stainless steel except the SID, which is aluminum.

The iClear is a top-dual-coil tank, and the Vamo with one on the right is the one I actually use 90% of the time.  I like a cool vape with a lot of oomph, and single-coil doesn't really do it for me.  By the time I've dialed up the power enough to feel the nicotine (6-7 watts), a single coil has lost all flavor and is on the border of scorched.  The iClear I can turn up to 10 watts and get lots of cool vapor.  The R80 is a 'party piece', something I bring to show off, I actually have a couple of disposable tanks with built-in LED's for it.  As you can tell, I'm firmly on the regulated side of the "Tech Divide", I like a consistent vape rather than delivery and flavor that changes as the battery discharges.  All told, I've spent about $500 in the last 4 months (the same I would have on cigarettes in the same time), but that includes enough cores, liquid, and flavor to last two years, as well as the two RBA's with enough coils to last 10+ (pre-wound coils are so cheap, I went ahead and bought 400).

--Dave

[schild]

I have considered buying 1000+ Aspire BDC cartridges for my Billet Box for when the inevitable other shoe drops. I should probably go ahead and do that.

[MahrinSkel]

Yeah, the New York Times had an article specifically about nicotine liquids titled "Poison By The Barrel".  The surprising part was how comparatively safe it was in spite of the fear-mongering: 1 documented death (a suicide) and about 1400 hospitalizations since 2009.  Ignoring smoking-created diseases and just looking at poisonings (hundreds of toddlers go to the hospital for chewing cigarette filters every year) and fires I would bet that it was actually more dangerous if the same number of people had stayed smokers.

But I've been expecting that sooner or later the tobacco industry would jump on-board with systems based on disposable cartomizers (like the current Blu cigs), as that would be modererately safer and fits into the pre-existing model for distribution and taxes.  I have vague plans to have stockpiled a lifetime supply by the time they start seriously pushing to control nicotine, about 4-5 liters of 10% should do it (roughly $600-750 at current prices).

--Dave

[Signe]

People have poisoned themselves with those nicotine patches a lot.  If there's a way to do something stupid with something that's supposed to help you, people will always find it.  My last purchase was for a Innokin SVD Kit, which I'm looking forward to fooling around with.  Vapor Beast is my new fav place to buy stuff.  I LOVE their nutty tobacco juice.  Lots of stuff for DIY, too.  I also ordered some Patron from E-Juice Pub.  They have some awesome sounding flavours.  I don't drink but I love the taste of some alcohol.  I also picked up a glass dome for herb and heavy wax from them.  I was never able to get the more pricey set up I had to work properly.  It wasted my herb! 

Has anyone used wax?  This is the best hobby ever.

[schild]

This is what I've been working on:
http://www.teleosjuice.com/

To buy it online (there's also a list of retail stores on the link above):
http://www.giantvapes.com/teleos/
http://www.giantvapes.com/teleos-cloud-science/

[Engels]

Very cool, but price point and 30 ml quantity is prohibitive. If it were possible to order 3x10 ml sample packs for the price of one 30 ml, or maybe even a hair more, I'd be in.

[schild]

Alas, no, but if you've never ordered form there, I believe there's a 10% off coupon.

VAPEONTV10 I believe.

I personally think juice is a little pricey, but don't blame the juice makers.

[Furiously]

Very cool, but price point and 30 ml quantity is prohibitive. If it were possible to order 3x10 ml sample packs for the price of one 30 ml, or maybe even a hair more, I'd be in.

I agree with this gentleman. I've been burned by too many juices to go all in.

[Signe]

Which flavour did you get?  Although the coupon died yesterday, I might try the Nightfall when I get low on the absinthe one I have.  I'm a total sucker for Absinthe/Anise stuff.  And melon.  I love melon flavours in ecigs. 

Since I'm here, just to let people who use dry or wax, that the globe attachment works pretty good although the bowl is a bit small.  As for the Atmos Raw, I still can't get it to work right.  I've tried pulsing the battery and it still tends to combust.  Any of you dry herb people having any luck with the Atmos or any other one that doesn't use globe attachments?  Special filter, maybe?

[Nebu]

Been seeing articles on the long-term effects of vaping recently.  Looks like the biggest concern is the topical deposition of nicotine residue from unabsorbed compound on exhalation.  Have you guys come across anything?   I'm trying to stay on top of this for my students.

[Engels]

the topical deposition of nicotine residue from unabsorbed compound on exhalation. 

English please? It sounds like you're saying that vapor deposits nicotine in a residual form when you exhale and that sticks to someplace and that's bad, but I'm guessing.

[Nebu]

the topical deposition of nicotine residue from unabsorbed compound on exhalation. 

English please? It sounds like you're saying that vapor deposits nicotine in a residual form when you exhale and that sticks to someplace and that's bad, but I'm guessing.

When you inhale, not all of the nicotine from your juice gets absorbed.  The remainder is exhaled with the vapor and will deposit on any surface in your vacinity.  This could become problemmatic in public places where people touch the surfaces. Could be a bigger issue in homes with small children. 

So long as you carefully monitor your nicotine levels in the juice, this shouldn't be an issue.  I can see idiots ruining vaping for responsible users though.

[Engels]

Welp, according to this study http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/14/18/abstract, second hand exposure to the other bad stuff is negligible. However, there's no mention of nicotine in that study. This study http://ntr.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/12/10/ntr.ntt203.short suggests that although there is nicotine in an exhalation, its 10 times less than that of tobacco smoke exhalation. To quote the relevant passage:

Results: The study showed that e-cigarettes are a source of secondhand exposure to nicotine but not to combustion toxicants. The air concentrations of nicotine emitted by various brands of e-cigarettes ranged from 0.82 to 6.23 µg/m3. The average concentration of nicotine resulting from smoking tobacco cigarettes was 10 times higher than from e-cigarettes (31.60±6.91 vs. 3.32±2.49 µg/m3, respectively; p = .0081).

One thing to look at is studies that are measuring second hand exposure through use of a smoke machine that does not take into account the user's absorption of nictone and is just measuring pure vape plumes pre-inhalation. That's not a measurement of anything, because of-fucking-course there's nicotine in that shit, that's the point.

[schild]

Been seeing articles on the long-term effects of vaping recently.  Looks like the biggest concern is the topical deposition of nicotine residue from unabsorbed compound on exhalation.  Have you guys come across anything?   I'm trying to stay on top of this for my students.

Articles but not studies. There are no studies. The difference between vapor from an ecig and vapor from a fog machine at a club is the presence of nicotine.

The amount of nicotine film second-hand from vapor is likely behind negligible. PROPER tests need to be run, but I'd wager you get more nicotine from eating 2 potatoes than you do putting your hands on the desk of a vapor.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199308053290619

[MahrinSkel]

It's worth studying, but it seems extremely unlikely that there would be enough residual nicotine in redeposited PG/VG to have any risk, especially compared to redeposited tar from cigarette smoke.  Gaseous nicotine doesn't last long and doesn't redeposit (that's why 100% PG doesn't work well), so the risk would come from droplets of vapor that managed to stick to surfaces.  These are a thing, under the right conditions, but even in a heavy vaping environment it's barely detectable to eye/touch.

If the studies were done honestly, it would be interesting.  But my bet is that they will be done by ASH or some other tobacco industry front and they'll use 25% nic/75% VG, in a chamber with refrigerated stainless steel walls.

--Dave

[Nebu]

I wasn't placing any value judgements folks.  I was looking for input. 

[Nebu]

Found this in a technical report released by scientists at Drexel.

Key Conclusions:
 Even when compared to workplace standards for involuntary exposures, and using several conservative (erring
on the side of caution) assumptions, the exposures from using e-cigarettes fall well below the threshold for
concern for compounds with known toxicity. That is, even ignoring the benefits of e-cigarette use and the fact
that the exposure is actively chosen, and even comparing to the levels that are considered unacceptable to
people who are not benefiting from the exposure and do not want it, the exposures would not generate concern
or call for remedial action.
 Expressed concerns about nicotine only apply to vapers who do not wish to consume it; a voluntary (indeed,
intentional) exposure is very different from a contaminant.
 There is no serious concern about the contaminants such as volatile organic compounds (formaldehyde,
acrolein, etc.) in the liquid or produced by heating. While these contaminants are present, they have been
detected at problematic levels only in a few studies that apparently were based on unrealistic levels of heating.
 The frequently stated concern about contamination of the liquid by a nontrivial quantity of ethylene glycol or
diethylene glycol remains based on a single sample of an early technology product (and even this did not rise to
the level of health concern) and has not been replicated.
 Tobacco-specific nitrosamines (TSNA) are present in trace quantities and pose no more (likely much less) threat
to health than TSNAs from modern smokeless tobacco products, which cause no measurable risk for cancer.
 Contamination by metals is shown to be at similarly trivial levels that pose no health risk, and the alarmist claims
about such contamination are based on unrealistic assumptions about the molecular form of these elements.
 The existing literature tends to overestimate the exposures and exaggerate their implications. This is partially
due to rhetoric, but also results from technical features. The most important is confusion of the concentration
in aerosol, which on its own tells us little about risk to heath, with the relevant and much smaller total exposure
to compounds in the aerosol averaged across all air inhaled in the course of a day. There is also clear bias in
previous reports in favor of isolated instances of highest level of chemical detected across multiple studies, such
that average exposure that can be calculated are higher than true value because they are “missing” all true
zeros.
 Routine monitoring of liquid chemistry is easier and cheaper than assessment of aerosols. Combined with an
understanding of how the chemistry of the liquid affects the chemistry of the aerosol and insights into behavior
of vapers, this can serve as a useful tool to ensure the safety of e-cigarettes.
 The only unintentional exposures (i.e., not the nicotine) that seem to rise to the level that they are worth further
research are the carrier chemicals themselves, propylene glycol and glycerin. This exposure is not known to
cause health problems, but the magnitude of the exposure is novel and thus is at the levels for concern based on
the lack of reassuring data

[schild]

Yes, basically its the best nicotine delivery system imaginable at this point. And nicotine is awesome.

[Engels]

Nebu, you linked a file straight from your desktop computer, which, you'll thank your lucky stars if you think about it, isn't possible :)

[Nebu]

Nebu, you linked a file straight from your desktop computer, which, you'll thank your lucky stars if you think about it, isn't possible :)

I had a long day and pasted the wrong link.  Sorry.  I'll leave it linkless since the conclusion makes the point.

[Signe]

For Lakov:

I smoked a ton.  More than a pack a day while I was working in artist management.  I was up early and out late and constantly having to travel and go to shows.  It got so bad that I couldn't breathe in the morning until I had a cig.  After I left that sort of work, I tried everything to stop and couldn't.  I was finally able to do it well before I started vaping but the craving never went away.  I slipped up more than a few times.  I haven't craved cigs since I started vaping, though.  It's very much of a relief for me and people are now safer because I don't want to smash them in the face when they light up anymore.

Yeah, I probably would prefer cigs but this helps a lot and I haven't slipped up since I started.  Of course, if they invented a cucumber melon flavoured cig, harmful or not, I would absolutely slip up.  So, you're probably right or maybe wrong but I don't know because I've confused myself with this post. 

Also, the Constantine show has that cool Albino guy in it, too.  He has the most beautiful face.  Especially when he dyes his hair orange and goes all goth-like.

[HansMar]

Finally finished buying everything from FastTech and other places, my ecig collection is essentially finished for the next couple of years.  Thought I'd post a lineup:



Left to right: R80 ePipe with Silencer and REM tank, Hammer with Kick 2 and DBox Puritank, Liberty King with iClear30 (no regulation), Smoktech SID with X10, Vamo V5 with iClear30.  All stainless steel except the SID, which is aluminum.

The iClear is a top-dual-coil tank, and the Vamo with one on the right is the one I actually use 90% of the time.  I like a cool vape with a lot of oomph, and single-coil doesn't really do it for me.  By the time I've dialed up the power enough to feel the nicotine (6-7 watts), a single coil has lost all flavor and is on the border of scorched.  The iClear I can turn up to 10 watts and get lots of cool vapor.  The R80 is a 'party piece', something I bring to show off, I actually have a couple of disposable tanks with built-in LED's for it.  As you can tell, I'm firmly on the regulated side of the "Tech Divide", I like a consistent vape rather than delivery and flavor that changes as the battery discharges.  All told, I've spent about $500 in the last 4 months (the same I would have on e cigarettes in the same time), but that includes enough cores, liquid, and flavor to last two years, as well as the two RBA's with enough coils to last 10+ (pre-wound coils are so cheap, I went ahead and bought 400).

--Dave

Surely you have got awesome collection.. I am just introduced to the world of vaping so my collection is pretty small..

[schild]

It's not about the collection. It's about not smoking. :)

[Pennilenko]

It's not about the collection. It's about not smoking. :)

Just how many different tanks and batteries do you have?