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schild
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on: September 09, 2013, 08:27:16 PM

E-Cigarettes, as an industry and product, are moving at such a fast pace, I don't feel like this thread will be relevant in a year. As such, I've given it the title you see above.

ALSO: THESE ARE MY OPINIONS, I AM NOT A SCIENTIST, ELECTRICAL ENGINEER, DOCTOR, OR OTHERWISE. BUT I AM ALSO NOT A MORANS, SO I'M COMFORTABLE IN WRITING ALL OF THIS UP FOR YOU ALL. IF YOU THINK IT'S WRONG, TAKE IT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT OR SOMETHING.

WHY?
Feel free to skip this section if you're already vaping. This isn't for you. It's for people who want to know why the fuck people are tugging on ecigs in the most random of places. Or for people who are currently smokers.

Here's the skinny: Smoking is bad. Patches and pills either barely work, don't work, or make you bugfuck crazy and suicidal and shit. Vaping, however, completely emulates smoking minus the stuck-to-every-goddamn-thing-you-own smell and uh, the cancer. THEORETICALLY, the shit inside of e-juice is less harmful to you than the air in Mexico City. For those wondering, it contains the following: Propylene Glycol (PG) or Vegatable Glycol (VG) - or a mix of the two, Nicotine, and Flavoring. Two of those three things are super safe to consume in any form. Though I wouldn't recommend drinking flavoring.

One of them, Nicotine, is one of the most poisonous substances on Earth when consumed in too large a dose. In short, don't ever make your own ejuice with undiluted Nicotine - you don't have the hardware for it anyway. We'll talk about brewing your own shit later, but for now, just understand this. There is a very good reason NO vape company sells juice over 30mg (that would be 30 milligrams nicotine per 1.0 milliliter of eliquid). That amount is absurdly high. The highest found in cigarettes is about the equivalent to 24mg juice. Your AVERAGE cigarette is the equivalent to 12mg juice. Though, your delivery of nicotine from ejuice completely depends on the method used to vaporize the juice. Anyway, why is it not above 30mg?

Well, nicotine can fucking kill you. It skips the whole cancer bit.

That out of the way, nicotine is a wonderful substance that I have no problem consuming. I'm sure my doctor would disagree, but, eh, fuck him. If you want to read more shit about nicotine, click here. I'm not a doctor, I just know I'd rather not get cancer but still get the improvements I get from nicotine. One of the primary reasons I'm big on caffeine too. Obviously, I'm not a role model.

But schild, what about those studies that say ecigarettes have formaldehyde and fucking antifreeze and diacetyl-based flavoring? Well, reader. They're fucking buckets of lies. I'm not sourcing all this but it's pretty easy to find:

1. Diacetyl was found in a shitty Chinese liquid. Tip: Don't buy shitty liquid from China.
2. Formaldehyde was never found in actual eliquid. IIRC, it was found in the burning remnants of what was used as filler material. Why? Well, a fucking FDA study a few years back decided to burn through store-bought shitty ecigs using a machine and they amped it up to levels completely unreasonable for a human being to even hold let alone inhale. Frankly, the whole study was absurd yet newspapers keep quoting it because of THE RED SMOKING MENACE or something. Anyway, I blame big tobacco for not correcting these fuckers.
3. Antifreeze - oh fuckoff. Yes, PG is used in antifreeze. It's not the part of antifreeze that can kill you. That whole claim is made by morons.

LAWS LAWS LAWS. Yea, America is a shitshow right now. Lots of counties and shit are trying to just ban ecigs the way they banned cigs. These are misguided old fucks that will die soon enough. The young ones are shitheels whose disdain for the product should be met with rigorous hatred. People should be CELEBRATING an alternative that keeps people from smoking and isn't harmful to themselves or people around them. Yea, yea, the jury is still out on how much "harm" ecigarettes do to the person smoking it. Spoiler alert: It's going to come back so positive that it will be available right next to the patch on store shelves. Or behind the counter or whatever. Here's this:

Code:
Maximum Tobacco-Specific Nitrosamine Levels in Various
Cigarettes and Nicotine-Delivery Products (ng/g, except for nicotine gum and patch which are ng/patch or ng/gum piece)
Product NNN NNK NAT NAB Total
E-Cigarette 3.87 1.46 2.16 0.69 8.18
Nicotine Gum 2 ND ND ND 2
Nicotine Patch ND 8 ND ND 8
Swedish Snus 2400
Gitanes Kings 6369 1477 2965 354 11165
Winston 2200 580 560 25 3365
Newport 1100 830 1900 55 3885
Camel 3100 1400 2800 150 7450
Skoal 4500 470 4100 220 9290
Marlboro 4300 1800 4900 190 11190

I mean, the studies have basically come back, from multiple sources in fact. Just not the right ones. What you're looking at is a list of nitrosamines found in ecigs, cigs, patch, snus, etc. I made the chart look nice but I yanked it from here (Click Me!). V2 was nice enough to link their sources at the bottom. Anyway, long story short - I am completely unconcerned. Compared to cigarettes, we're talking TRACE amounts of all substances. That said, maybe we're all looking at the wrong thing and instead of cancer it causes something else. Who knows. But I know I'm not smoking and I'm still getting my sweet, sweet nicotine. This is here (along with that link) so if someone gives you shit about vaping or you want a number-based reason to quit smoking - well, this is about as good as it gets. End fo the day, this shit is better than cigarettes. Most people want folks to say less harmful - nawwwww, that isn't for me. As someone who thinks nicotine is just fantastic, well, these little juice delivering devices are just straight better.

THE STATE OF ECIGS IN THE US (AND THE WORLD, REALLY, OTHER THAN CHINA):
The USA is WAY ahead of the game in terms of ejuice. We have lots of suppliers of pharmaceutical grade nicotine, among high quality flavoring, and good PG/VG. We also have exceptionally good engineers making exceptionally good product. A lot of ex-manufacturing folks have turned ecigs (read: mods, atomizers, and juice) into full-time jobs. I'll get into that when I talk about specific product. But suffice it to say, the US is fucking crushing everyone else.

The Phillipines have taken their Pinoy-labeled shit and sort of dumped it on the US market. I don't care how many fans it gets, the quality is straight inconsistent. Their customer support is nearly non-existant. They're doing too much, too fast, and trying to be relevant. They're not. I would recommend just ignoring them.

Asia (not China): Japan, South Korea, and Malaysia has some interesting things happening. I'm going to keep watching them, but they are certainly getting there with their product. On average, it's NEARLY as good as America. But not quite, not yet. Some of the stuff however, is the best in the world.

Central/South America: A dude named Pedro makes something called the Caravela. It's really nice. There's a handful of other shit coming out of these areas but, they're no better than the stuff coming out of America or Greece. Speaking of...

Greece: Whoa, fucking Greece. I know right. Anyway, they have some spicy shit coming out of there. In fact, my current main vape is a combination of German and Greek produced product (with eliquid from America - I ONLY vape eliquid from America - not even going to give other countries a chance. Fuck'em.). Anyway, Greece has a couple exceptional mod-makers (Atmomixani for one).

Germany: The Kayfun is made there. That's really all that's relevant. More on this later.

Europe (outside of Germany and Greece): There are modders, and a handful of them are very, very good. I'll talk about them, but I feel no need to separate them out right now.

GREAT, WHAT IS AN ECIG?
You know, I have no clue why websites are so shitty at writing what an ecig is or how one works or otherwise. EVERY single e-cigarette consists of the following three parts:

1. Battery
2. Tank
3. Atomizer

That's IT. A battery to power an atomizer that vaporizes eliquid from a tank. It's one of the easiest things to use on the planet.

Is that too confusing? OK then, it's a flashlight that has a thing on the end that you suck vapor out of. Now I'm going to skip straight to breaking down each part of the ecig (broken down further into each type), IN THAT ORDER. Because frankly, this shit should be easy to understand. There doesn't need to be a Vaping for Dummies.

1. BATTERIES:
IN CIGALIKES: The battery generally starts where the top part ends. It's typically noticeable. For example, in the NJoy King, it runs from the tip (think of it as the lit end of a cigarette) to where it starts looking like a cigarette filter.

IN EGO STYLE: In eGo-style batteries It's everything from below the button to just north of the bottom (or sometimes to the bottom). It is what you're going to screw your tank onto. It is a self-contained battery that can power a lot of shit. It is generally charged through an adapter that looks like this. They come in both long and short varieties and each one has a different mAh rating (milliampere-hour) which is a rough indication of how long it will last before needing to be recharged.

BATTERIES: Uh, they're batteries. I use Efest IMR Button Top batteries. Some mods call for other ones. They work like a battery. They run out and you recharge them. Fin.

2. TANKS:
Well now, there's a whole lot of fucking different tanks. Let's cover the popular ones first.

1. Clearomizers: These are the MOST common tanks you'll come across. They run the gamut from CE4 plastic kinda-shitty tanks to a little better but-still-too-airy-a-draw Kanger Protanks. These have replaceable atomizers, which cuts down on cost. The plastic ones can crack when you fill them with a citrus, cinnamon, anise, or mentholated juice. Actually, it's not that they can crack. They DO crack. They also fog. No one really knows what happens when this occurs. In fact, the first thing I try to do is to get people off clearos if they aren't VERY aware of the juice they're dumping into it. Then there's the glass ones that can take any type of juice. I recommend them (Kanger Protank, Dbox Puritank, etc) to beginners because they can go hog-wild with whatever sort of caustic-towards-shitty-plastic juice they want. Anyway, nearly every "first-time" vaper starts out with these... or

2. Cartomizers: In short, these look like the filter of a cigarette. Most are longer than a filter, but they emulate that filter feel unless you put a driptip on them. Effectively, they're a combination atomizer / tank. There's a filler material (oh the source of so many problems for ecigs) that soaks up ejuice and sort of sits there waiting to be vaporized by a coil near the bottom (or sometimes the middle, or wherever). When used correctly, these things are awesome. I'm a fan of slotted Boge 2ohm cartos that can be found at Kidney Puncher. What a sweet domain name. Technically not a tank but the juice has to sit somewhere. A lot of people start on cartomizers (which is basically, like, stone age technology at this point). I'll talk about the atomizer more in next section.

3. Everything Else: You know, there's a shitload of things with tanks on the market, but the rest fit firmly under atomizer. So let's go!

3. ATOMIZERS: THIS IS WHERE WE REALLY GO DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE, BUT THIS SHIT IS AWESOME, SO LIKE, READ IT OR DON'T WHATEVER
First of all, what is an atomizer? Well, it's the element that heats ejuice to create the vapor. Ok, then why the fuck are some of them so elaborate? Well, those are rebuiladable atomizers (RBAs). Lots of very smart dudes make very good RBAs, and frankly, this is the ONLY part where things get a LITTLE complicated. There are lots of sources on the internet that get into them, but I'll give you the VERY brief version.

An RBA consists of, really, 4 parts:
1. The thing you build the coil on.
2. The thing that plugs into the battery.
3. The thing that we call a "driptip."
(sometimes) 4. The thing that is really just a specialized tank.

There are 4 styles of RBAs:
1. Genesis Style: These have a positive and negative post to wrap your coil onto. The coil heats a wick. The wick feeds from a tank below the posts.

2. Kayfun Style: This isn't what these are called, but effectively, they range from simple sort of Kanger Protank style things to vacuum sealed channel-delivered devices. They're rad and they're what I primarily use myself, specifically the Kayfun Lite.

3. Dripping (RBDA - Rebuildable Dripping Atomizer): These are what people use when they want to blow big ass clouds and refill their shit ALL THE FUCKING TIME. Basically it's anything from a single to quad coil setup that has a bunch of wick material and you apply the juice directly to the wick. I hate these. Lots of people love them. To each their own, they're still not smoking, so yay!

4. Everything Else: There's all sorts of different designs out there from Mojo's AIOS-D/T (basically a complex dripper with tank system that costs 200 duckets) to the vertical coil bizarre dripper. I mean, these technically fall into the other categories, but they're JUST complex enough that they fall into their own category. Generally, I don't dick around with these. Hell, I can't even tell you how to rebuild the Piculisci from Scientist.

So, my personal styles of choice, are genesis and Kayfun. They're very, VERY easy to build and aren't TOO finicky. Those two points are IMPORTANT to me. I don't want to futz around with my stuff every time I need more juice or something arcane has happened inside a stainless steel shell. My Kayfun will go 4-5 tanks without needing any sort of dry-burn or clean and my genesis, well (I'm on an iHybrid Pure atm), that thing has gone through 8 tanks with nothing more than a wash and wipedown of the deck and glass (which I did by choice because I've been filling it with a green juice that taints whatever it touches - Mad Murdock's Radiator Pluid for those wondering).

Now, let's get down to the nitty gritty of why "high-end" ecig shit SEEMS complicated. Coils. Let's break those down. They consist of two parts:

1. Wicking Material
2. The actual coil

So, generally, there's a handful of accepted wick materials. They are as follows:
1. Stainless Steel Mesh - Generally used in Genesis style atomizers. This stuff is great and super easy to use.
2. Silica Wick - the sort of standard up until recently. I don't recommend this.
3. Sterilized Cotton - as in fucking cotton balls. A handful of people have decided this is a good idea. They're also a handful of idiots. Don't use anything notably flammable. Yeesh. I shouldn't have to spell this out. Unless of course, you know what you're doing. In which case, any problem you run into is your own. I advise against this shit.
4. Ekowool - Now we're talking. Temperature resistant, highly durable. Wicks like a boss. MASSIVELY heat resistant, let along temperature resistant. This stuff is *the shit.*
5. Ceramic - Some people like these. They break easily. They're highly porous and wick very, very well.
6. Stainless Steel Cable - whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, what. Cable? Yup. Cable. Apparently it wicks really well. Sometimes too fast. Crazytown. I don't fuck with this, yet. So I have no opinion. It's a relatively new development. Fucking vapers will use anything for a wick. I'm just waiting for someone to break their tank with the end of the cable. Bound to happen sometime.

I'll be talking about 1 (SS Mesh) and 4 (Ekowool) because I believe those to be both the easiest, and most tolerant to the end user totally fucking up.

Stainless Steel mesh is some of the easiest shit on Earth to deal with. You basically, well, fuckit, here's a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdGUN0sgYCo

I don't do all that torching and shit though because, uh. You don't need to. Also, my wick is MUCH shorter than that. You know, I'll just post pictures next time I rebuilt it. Needless to say, I assure you, it's daunting and weird to work with at first, but man I could do it blind now.

Ekowool. Uh, you like, wrap wire around it and put the wire into some posts. Here's a video of Pbusardo reviewing the Russian - which is a clone of the Kayfun. It really is dead simple: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to0oHiETyAg

NOW NOW, I know what you're thinking - that doesn't look simple. Well, it is. So, like, there. Source: Me. Who has been vaping for 6 months who happens to like to do research.

With that out of the way, here's the deal with coils. They don't have to be perfect, they just have to heat evenly. Well, how do we achieve that?

Carefully.

Seriously, wrapping a coil isn't like an art or anything, but you want to make sure the leads (ends of the coil) coming off of the posts (where you screw the coils down) aren't touching anything and wind into a somewhat consistent coil around whatever you're using as a wicking material.

That's, like, about it. I use 32AWG Kanthal wire. A 4/5 wrap (can see 4 coils on one side, 5 on the reverse) on 2 layers of Ekowool yields about 1.2ohms.

Whoaaaaaaaaaaaa. Ohms. You know, some people understand them, some don't. I just understand the results. Ohm rating dictates the resistance of the coil. Even on shit like Kanger Protanks (where the head is replacable), there's an ohm rating. If you're not using a mechanical mod (COMING UP NEXT), but rather a variable wattage/power mod, the ohm rating will basically tell you where you want your power to be set. Wait? What? Oh, this part is easy - just click me!

BONUS - MECH(ANICAL) MODS
Basically, these are elaborate flashlights, most commonly featuring a 510 connection on the end so you can thread nearly any atty (atomizer) onto it.

The build quality is relevant. You don't want shit breaking, or shorts happening. You also want proper vent holes in case a battery decides to go ape shit on you. In the post after this one, I'll be talking about my own equipment, but in short: These can get expensive, but in recent experience, I have found them to be worth the money (and still less than smoking).

BONUS - HYBRIDS
These are cool. Basically, they are all in one units (just add wick, wire, and battery!) that give you an advanced setup in a pretty cool design. They come with both dripping and genesis style atties on the end, but the deal here is you're stuck with whatever the atty is.

What happens here though, is they remove 2 points of contact for the atomizer, effectively reducing the voltage drop from the pin transfer at the end of the battery. Basically, cleaner, more consistent power.

I can and plan to elaborate further on all of this, but feel free to throw questions at me about any particular part (or ask for recommendations). The second post in this thread will contain juice reviews/comments and hardware reviews as I plow through shit. As a hobbyist industry, the whole thing is really in an interesting space at the moment while corporations move glacially to enter it.

ADDENDUM - SO WHAT ABOUT CHINA ANYWAY?
Well, China is just cloning shit and putting out really fucking shoddy devices (comparatively). Frankly, I'd rather no one support them, but they do put out the easiest to understand products at the base level. Their mechs - even the 1:1 clones (except in VERY RARE CASES) - tend to be crap. Though, sometimes, they knock it out of the park. For example, there's a clone of the Electric Angel mod that's apparently simply better than the original. Unfortunately the EA is kind of an ugly dog of a mod and no one cares about it anymore as it's so outdated. Also, there's the clone of the Kayfun (The Russian) and Kayfun Lite (Russian 91%). The latter is actually BETTER than the original, adding airflow control. Nonetheless, its' still too much of a crapshoot. There are like ten new products a day from China, and out of every 100 of them, 99 of them are total shit. I don't gamble with shit that can explode, electrocute, or leak juice all over my shit.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 11:36:36 AM by schild »
schild
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Reply #1 on: September 09, 2013, 08:27:26 PM

THIS POST RESERVED FOR REVIEWS AND SHIT, AND A FAQ PROBABLY.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 10:53:57 PM by schild »
schild
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Reply #2 on: September 10, 2013, 12:07:34 AM

Before I jump into describing juices. Assume that every single one has had at least 2 week steep time unless it says otherwise. Lots of people have different methods of steeping. For me, I just leave the bottle open 24/7 but seal it and give it a good shake about once or twice a week. All of my bottle are always left open all the time though.



The Vapor Chef:
  • Honey Pearry - Easily the best juice from Vapor Chef. Unfortunately, it's not as good as Melon Medley from the Jameson's line of juices (made by SAVEUR, who also makes The Standard and Blueprint lines of juice). It costs about half as much though, so there's that.
  • Hobbes' Blood - I mean, it tastes like a Tiger's Blood snow cone. You either liked that as a kid, hated it as a kid (loser), or never had it (depressing loser). It's delicious.
  • Unicorn Poop - Probably my favorite "cupcake" flavor. I don't vape cupcakes that much though. This does a reasonable impression of about 2 weeks steep time.
  • Butter Beer - Butter Beer is basically a butterscotch flavor. It's OK when you get it - as in, I would vape it immediately. After steeping the butterscotch becomes too strong, imo. I have a half full bottle I can't even finish. Ugh.
  • Chamberry - This does not taste like Champagne and Strawberries. I don't know what it tastes like. But it's fucking delicious after 2 weeks steeping, even better after a month.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 12:41:07 AM by schild »
MahrinSkel
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Reply #3 on: September 10, 2013, 02:14:48 AM

Your comments about stainless steel mesh and steel wire reminded me of something: When I was still fiddling around with these things, one wick material that worked extremely well was titanium wool.  Virtually indestructible, corrosion proof, and tolerant to heat at temperatures that would make the coil pop like a flashbulb.  You could 'clean' it with a butane torch, and titanium is so biologically inert they use titanium oxide in tests for silicosis and other lung diseases.

E-cigs are more like pipe smoking than cigarettes in a lot of ways, one of the biggest being collecting and fiddling with the gear.

--Dave
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 02:16:58 AM by MahrinSkel »

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Miasma
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Reply #4 on: September 10, 2013, 06:43:12 AM

Where is big tobacco in all this?  I would have thought they would jump all over a new option but I've yet to see a brand I recognize, that said I don't think it's as big here in Canada yet.  Are they doing anything or would this actually hurt them?

My parents have been unable to quit smoking for decades.  I would be more comfortable looking into and suggesting this if a major cigarette company released a product rather than all these small fly by night type things.  I recognize the irony of trusting companies who are in the business of killing people for profit to make a safe, high quality product.

Also, if a country's regulators decide one day boom "no more of this vaping stuff it's all illegal now", how hard would it be to go back to smoking?
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Reply #5 on: September 10, 2013, 07:11:08 AM

You'd trust tobacco companies to put out a 'safe product'? Seriously, Miasma, think about what you're saying. Big tobacco is not in this because its far easier to quit e-cigs than tobacco. They are also run by crusty crazy cakes and would be far more likely to fund hysterical politicians trying to ban ecigs than to actually promote its use. Its the equivalent of asking why Apple isn't making a Linux OS.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying getting off ejuice would be easy, but significantly easier than tobacco.

I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe

I LIKE being bounced around by Tonkors. - Lantyssa

Babies shooting themselves in the head is the state bird of West Virginia. - schild
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Reply #6 on: September 10, 2013, 07:30:53 AM

Schild:  I'm willing to offer any science that might be helpful to this endeavor.  I have expertise in pharmacology (particularly toxicology and drug delivery) as well as surface chemistry.  I will do my best to provide information in an unbiased manner with references. 

Just throwing that on the table in case anyone has any questions of a scientific nature.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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Reply #7 on: September 10, 2013, 07:40:06 AM

All of my questions are scientific.  Although I stopped smoking already, if my friends converted it would save me from social smoking.

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Reply #8 on: September 10, 2013, 07:53:28 AM

You'd trust tobacco companies to put out a 'safe product'? Seriously, Miasma, think about what you're saying. Big tobacco is not in this because its far easier to quit e-cigs than tobacco. They are also run by crusty crazy cakes and would be far more likely to fund hysterical politicians trying to ban ecigs than to actually promote its use. Its the equivalent of asking why Apple isn't making a Linux OS.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying getting off ejuice would be easy, but significantly easier than tobacco.
It's a devil you know type of thing.  Both options are bad for you, there are no angels in this product area.  Big tobacco is watched like a hawk and already have incredible amounts of government scrutiny, if they screw up the nicotine dosage or something they have a lot to lose.  These small boutique style juice people could just disappear and open up under a new name.

And I don't want to derail the topic but Apple basically is a linux OS now.  Or blend of unix or however you want to describe what they built on top of BSD.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 07:55:20 AM by Miasma »
schild
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Reply #9 on: September 10, 2013, 07:56:40 AM

If big tobacco was willing to get into the higher end space of the market, it MAY actually be a good thing. They have actual scientists and engineers and smart people and shit. The hobbyist market has... hobbyists. No, big tobacco (specifically RJ Reynolds, Phillip Morris and Lorillard) is instead dicking around in the cig-alike space because it's the lowest barrier to entry. That said, they may think this is just a very sizable fad, particular in the geekspace it currently sits.

Anywhere, where are they? Off making ecigs be as close to cigarettes as possible. If you haven't tried an NJoy King but vape, you owe it to yourself to try one. Goddamn thing is an ACTUAL electronic cigarette.

Oh, also, they're trying to get ecigs regulated so they control the distribution chain and retail space.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 08:11:45 AM by schild »
Engels
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Reply #10 on: September 10, 2013, 08:18:00 AM

Oh, also, they're trying to get ecigs regulated so they control the distribution chain and retail space.

ding ding ding ding ding!

I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe

I LIKE being bounced around by Tonkors. - Lantyssa

Babies shooting themselves in the head is the state bird of West Virginia. - schild
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Reply #11 on: September 10, 2013, 08:19:58 AM

There's a glimmer of hope they won't be successful though. There's enough testing going on and proof going around that it's useful as a smoking cessation device - which would see it regulated in a completely different way. A not-so-good-way at that. I don't know which is worse. But in a couple years, I will likely have a STOCKPILE of juice (if not sooner) because it just won't be available... but wick, wire, and mesh always will be.
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Reply #12 on: September 10, 2013, 10:02:05 AM

I've gotten so lazy when it comes to my ecig purchases ever since a store opened up near me that sells most eGo 510-style stuff. I just go there when I need a new wick or I sit weird while drinking and break my battery (this is how 95% of my batteries break)

But that Captain's salami tray was tight, yo. You plump for the roast pork loin, dogg?

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schild
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Reply #13 on: September 10, 2013, 10:16:19 AM

You're in SoCal. You have access to Ecig City, Local Vape, Vape Revolution, etc. You have no excuse for continuing to use eGo style batteries. For real.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #14 on: September 10, 2013, 12:30:28 PM

Where is big tobacco in all this?  I would have thought they would jump all over a new option but I've yet to see a brand I recognize, that said I don't think it's as big here in Canada yet.  Are they doing anything or would this actually hurt them?
Blu Cigs is owned by Lorillard (Newport and Kent cigarettes).  Mostly the tobacco companies are hoping it will go away, they're seeing it seriously eat into their profits in Asia.  ASH (Action on Smoking and Health) is a tobacco front group that is behind most of the push to ban e-cigs in the US (they're the ones that requested that FDA study).

--Dave

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Reply #15 on: September 10, 2013, 01:05:20 PM

Is it even possible to get juices that do not contain any nicotine?

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Reply #16 on: September 10, 2013, 01:07:45 PM

Yes. It's referred to as 0mg or 0 nic. The placebo effect is strong if you've gotten your nic level down enough. I've gone from 24mg to 12 in like 6 months.
Signe
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Reply #17 on: September 11, 2013, 08:21:18 AM

THANKS!  You should get money for this.  It's a proper article and stuff.  You should fact check as much as possible and publish it.  Can I copy it all and send it to my nephew or would that make you shy?  I only ask because I'm not sure I could say all those words to him. 

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Reply #18 on: September 11, 2013, 09:18:31 AM

Eh, sure, go for it.

In other news, I should be getting that package from SAVEUR vape today, om nom nom.
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Reply #19 on: September 11, 2013, 12:20:58 PM

Yes. It's referred to as 0mg or 0 nic. The placebo effect is strong if you've gotten your nic level down enough. I've gone from 24mg to 12 in like 6 months.

When I quit smoking the hardest part after the first few weeks was not having something in between my fingers.  That fidgety craving of missing the physical thing in my hand lasted for years longer than the desire to smoke.  The fact that they sell 0mg is really interesting and makes me wonder how many people are addicted to the action and process, less than the nicotine. 

This article was pretty awesome, thanks for sharing this info.
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Reply #20 on: September 11, 2013, 08:09:24 PM

Got my giant package of juice. Expect reviews soon-ish.
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Reply #21 on: September 12, 2013, 12:00:45 PM

I appreciate your effort, and agree with pretty much everything you had to say.  A study published recently in the Lancet Medical Journal showed that e-cigarettes are as at least as effective as Nicotine patches in helping people quit or cut down on smoking.  Linkage.

I had also read an article recently, which I'm unable to track down at this point, that referenced a paper that theorized that beyond a certain threshold, it was more beneficial for ex-smokers to continue nicotine replacement therapy indefinitely.

As far as concerns of legality and stockpiling juice, as long as Nicotine itself doesn't get classified as a controlled substance, it's trivially easy to make your own.  I'm lazy, so I don't bother, but a friend of mine has been making her own for months now, and I've helped, it's literally just following a recipe and tweaking it to personal satisfaction.  The PG/VG and food flavorings will always be available, so worst case scenario, there's a way to still obtain it.  It may not be Boba's Bounty or Hobbe's Blood, but I'm sure there's something viable for everyone if it really came down to regulations.

I smoked 2 packs/day for 25 years, and I have been vaping for almost a year exclusively now.  Aside from saving me $500/month in cost, I feel a hell of a lot better too.

Phil

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Reply #22 on: September 12, 2013, 02:14:11 PM

What's your setup like, Ralence?

Also, I was going to review Boba's Bounty but really, that shit ruins coils too fast so I couldn't bring myself to even partially recommend it.
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Reply #23 on: September 12, 2013, 03:52:39 PM

I'm using interchangeable protank coil atomizers, EVOD's and Protanks with EGO-twists for work and out and about, just for portability and convenience.  It's also nice to be able to keep a charger in my car, at my desk at work, at my GF's, at $3/each or something, I have a dozen scattered all over.  I'm deathly afraid of running out of battery or juice when I'm out and about.  I like the fact that I can dry burn and rebuild the protank coils, and the fact that they are frequently on sale for $1.50 or so each is really nice. 

At home I have a few mods.  Vamo (Which i still use as an ohms tester for coils), Sigelei 8, Sentinel M16, and a Chi-You clone, with either AGA-T2 or a Smoktek RSST.  The RSST is probably the simplest and most newbie friendly RBA, at least from my experience, but it's limiting in that you can only use a single coil.  The AGA-T2 is awesome, but it just burns through liquid.  I'm not sure I benefit from the giant clouds, and that I'm not just wasting the liquid into the atmosphere.  It did give me a headache the first few days of using it, from the nic overload, so I dropped the nic level in the juice I vape at home to offset it.

And you're right about coils gunking, from my experience the darker liquids just make a mess.  I've been sticking with Hobbes Blood, and Magilla Banilla (From esixvapors.com), just so I can get a month or so out of each coil.

I've done most of the seemingly typical evolution.  Started with cig-alikes, got sick of refilling them, moved onto ego's with ce4's, got sick of replacing them, moved to iclear16's for the replaceable coil/wick, got sick of the wicking issues, so I moved on to Kanger T3's with bottom coil, which I really preferred but leaked like a sieve, and then found Protanks and EVODs, which I'm extremely content with.  For batteries I started with 650mah EGO's, moved on to 1000mah VV, then realized I was sick of charging three batteries a day and bought the Vamo for home use.  The others are mostly just toys, I'm perfectly content with a Protank on my Vamo for the most part, but I wanted to experiment and try out the other things that were available.

Also newsworthy on the topic is the HongKong preventing shipping of batteries out of China.  Apparently a lot of people are having them stopped in customs based on a law they passed back in January, but didn't ever bother to enforce until now.  Not that I ever trusted batteries from China, but some of my friends had been getting the panasonic 18650's from there.
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Reply #24 on: September 12, 2013, 03:57:10 PM

Yea, I've been considering buying like 20 batteries from RTDvapor just so I never have to worry about it again.
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Reply #25 on: September 12, 2013, 04:02:34 PM

Also, yea, I did the protanks and stuff for a while. For ease of use they're great. For flavor, well, let's just say I don't like the flavor of non-ekowool Silica and it's easier to rebuild a kayfun.
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Reply #26 on: September 12, 2013, 05:37:43 PM

What do you do about portability?  I just can't see myself carrying around a mod to go out with.  Or do you just figure fuck it, bring the flashlight?
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Reply #27 on: September 12, 2013, 05:40:22 PM

Yea, I've been considering buying like 20 batteries from RTDvapor just so I never have to worry about it again.
Keep in mind that the lifespan of Li-Ion batteries are limited to 2-3 years no matter what (chemistry degrades inevitably).  So you should plan on completely replacing your batteries every year or two no matter what.

Fake edit: I carry my Ego-compatible 18650 unit hanging from a lanyard around my neck.  Got tired of losing or breaking things.

--Dave

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Reply #28 on: September 12, 2013, 06:07:55 PM

I'll use a lanyard when hell freezes over.

The Nemesis in 18350 and even, to a degree, in 18490 mode is super small. Shorter than an eGo Twist 1100mAh, that's for sure. The Kayfun Lite is a little big, but eh, it's still shorter than a VAMO with just about any tank on it. Also, the Kayfun Lite don't leak if you don't build it like a goon.

Edit: When I'm gone for the whole day, I just suffer the 18650 mode. A modder is about to put out a hybrid adapter for the Nemesis / Kayfun combo next week, so it'll be a few cm shorter. Pretty stoked about that.
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Reply #29 on: September 13, 2013, 09:39:06 AM

Can you share pics of the stuff you use personally?

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Reply #30 on: September 13, 2013, 09:50:35 AM

Here's some grabbed of the internet since it's not dismantled atm. In order:

1. Nemesis Kalafan (Battery Mod)
2. Kayfun Lite (Atomizer)
3. iHybrid Pure (battery + atomizer hybrid)


And this should be coming in sometime in the next 3 weeks. It's a Doc Dave / iHybrid Collaboration hybrid:
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Reply #31 on: September 13, 2013, 01:41:01 PM

I got one of the tanks with a metal tip. Makes every inhale taste metallic. I'm hesitant to get any tank with a metal tip.

I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe

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Reply #32 on: September 13, 2013, 06:14:18 PM

I hate metal tips. I use Delrin ones. Specifically, these: http://www.modnworld.com/product_p/dta.htm
Signe
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Reply #33 on: September 15, 2013, 06:56:24 AM

I don't have a calming hobby and I need one.  My shrink says so.  I wonder if this would make a good hobby.  I LOVED smoking.  They make stuff even without nicotine, too.  I could puff away like I'm Greta Garbo.  My shrink suggested making some sort of feathery shit for fly fishing, which I don't understand at all and it looks dangerously pointy.  Or painting.  I would probably paint pictures of people smoking.  So, what do you think?  Or is this just stupid for a hobby?  I mean you guys seem SO into it and it even has terminology!

PS  This isn't a joke post, please.

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Draegan
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Reply #34 on: September 15, 2013, 09:36:25 AM

I kind of laugh when people keep saying vaping and juices in a serious tone.
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