Vaping: 2013-2014 Edition

[Furiously]

Oh hey Schild did you see vape fest 2013 is going to be at the Flaminco in Vegas Sept. 20-21?

[schild]

I hate the lingo, but I get why it caught on. It doesn't involve the word "smoking." 'Juice' is a questionable term though.

Edit: About Vapefest, that's funny. I hadn't noticed. I was actually going to be in Vegas that weekend and decided not to go. Whoops. ECC is the same weekend though in Cali, and all the good modders will be there anyway.

[Miasma]

Aside from scientists and engineers having big tobacco would also bring in marketing people with enough competence to realize calling this liquid "juice" would trigger a gag reflex in 80% of prospective customers and then proceed to call it something much better.

Every time I hear the word in this thread all I can think about is drinking the contents of a spittoon and I want to vomit.

[schild]

The mistake Big Tobacco is making, I think, is trying to make disposable E-Cig size devices the de facto standard. They don't realize that people who are like, uh, "vapers" want to remove themselves from the cigarette smoking arena. Besides, that device has already been perfected in the NJoy King and NONE OF THEM are going to be able to do it better. The goddamn King is like smoking an actual cigarette. Even tastes like one. Little fucker is crazy.

Anyway, I really, very badly, want cigarette manufacturers to not think of these things as cigarettes. That's the cancer that will kill the industry.

[Furiously]

They want the continuing money. A pack a day smoker won't go through eight dollars of juice a day.

[Ralence]

They want the continuing money. A pack a day smoker won't go through eight dollars of juice a day.

It's very true, but the profit in the juice is phenomenal as well.  Cost to manufacture is around $.05/ml, and that's after purchasing the PG/VG/Nic/Flavoring at retail prices, and retail is closer to $.55/ml or so.  I go through 5-6ml/day, so figure that's $3.00 in profit.  With actual cigarettes, their retail is something ridiculously low like $2.00/pack, the other $6 is all taxes.  So they were probably making $1.00/day profit from me at 2-packs/day.

So theoretically, and I'm only half talking out my ass here, they would actually make more profit in juice than they ever did in cigarettes themselves, at least until the Gov't gets involved for some of that sweet sweet tax revenue.

[Furiously]

So, you don't want to jump in with $300 dollars of stuff and just want to try ecigs... What do you do?

http://www.mtbakervapor.com/e-cig-starter-kits/smoktech-510-dc-automatic-starter-kit/ You can get this stuff cheaper from China, but they are having a bit of an issue shipping batteries currently. (Also these types of atomizers are really nice for testing if you like a juice flavor). They also have really cheap juice and it's of decent quality. http://www.mtbakervapor.com/nicotine-juice/cinnamon-roll-e-juice-baker-vapor/

Should be able to try the experience out for less than 40 bucks. (they also have really fast shipping).

[schild]

Gimme a few, I'll post what *I* would tell a new vaper to get (I went through ALL the new vaper gear, trying to find something decent).

[schild]

If I were to start vaping today, I would have wanted to know the following:

• Buy shit from Fast Tech. You're just starting out, you'll be buying Chinese bullshit from any vapor store, might as well buy from Fast Tech. Besides, they take paypal and shipping is free. You're going to find out very quickly that nearly no one in America takes Paypal - the American branch hates vaping (well, anything related to or tertiary to cigarettes).
• You CAN start with an eGo-Twist style battery, but eh, they sort of blow ass.
• Start with a VAMO or Innokin MVP or even a mech. Seriously.
• Understand what "caustic" juices can do to a tank and plan accordingly.
• Flavor and quality of vapor is more important than the battery driving it.

That said, if someone handed me $100 for gear (don't roll your eyes, if you're a pack a day smoker, you spend that much in 15 days - in Virginia no less), I'd get the following:

BATTERIES:
1. Innokin MVP: http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10004594/1352000-innokin-itaste-mvp-5-in-1-voltage-adjustable
OR
1. VAMO: http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10004394/1350600-vamo-v2-variable-voltage-rechargeable-e-cigarette

The VAMO comes with 2 batteries. Don't stack them. You're not driving a big atomizer, they'll last a bit. When they're full the VAMO will read 4.2, when they're running dry it'll tell you (~3.2 if you're wondering). The VIVI NOVAs that come with the VAMO are shit. I don't even like the iclears that come with the MVP.

ATOMIZER:
PLASTIC: About caustic juices - strong menthols, cinnamons, banana, and citrus (lime, lemon, orange, tangerine, grapefruit, etc) flavors can crack / degrade / cloud plastic tanks. If you like things like that, DON'T BUY PLASTIC GODDAMN TANKS. So many stores don't even follow this rule and will sell someone fucking Ecto Cooler with a plastic tank. People are most stores are idiots.

1. X10: http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10004996/1389502-x10-protank-atomizer-4-0ml
with these heads: http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10005274/1423110-clearomizer-coil-heads-for-kanger-protank-5-pack

PYREX: This will take any juice. Yay!

1. Kanger Protank-II - http://www.fasttech.com/products/1411/10004861/1429700
It's out of stock atm, but yea, that. There aren't enough glass tanks for noobs. There should be more. I don't like telling people to get carto tanks when they start, so this is your only real glass option. I like the X10 more and simply avoided caustic juices because of that. Protanks have an incredibly airy draw and are honestly kind of shit. But they're easy to use and your options are thick.

This tank uses the same atomizers linked with the X10.

I would not recommend any top coil / wicked pre-fab tank to fucking anyone. They're crap and taste like actual butt.

JUICE:
DON'T BUY FUCKING CHINESE JUICE. DON'T BUY FILIPINO JUICE. JUST BUY FROM THE US. SERIOUSLY. ALL JUICES LISTED BELOW ARE NON-CAUSTIC AND ARE SAFE IN PLASTIC TANKS.

1. FRUIT - VAPOR CHEF'S HONEY PEARRY - http://thevaporchef.com/products/honey-pearry
2. DESSERT - THE STANDARD'S CELL BLOCK 4 - http://elevated-vaping.myshopify.com/collections/the-standard/products/cell-block-four
3. BREAKFAST - VAPOR TRAIN'S CHOO CHOO CRUNCH - http://www.shopmvg.com/products/choo-choo-crunch
4. ESOTERIC - VELVET CLOUD'S MEWLEW'S MAGIC - http://www.velvetcloudvapor.com/collections/e-liquid-blends/products/mewlews-magic
5. IDON'TEVEN - SUICIDE BUNNY'S MOTHER'S MILK - http://skylinevapor.com/mothers-milk-by-suicide-bunny/

That last juice is just like, man, it grows on you. It starts off as this sort of "oh, vanilla in strawberry out" ok. But it's not like a candy strawberry or an absurd-smack-you-in-the-face vanilla. Honestly, if Cell Block 4 wasn't already my favorite vanilla, I could vape Mother's Milk all day. I can't actually vape CB4 ALL day.

Finally, this is the best chart in vaping:

[schild]

All bullshit aside, rebuilding a Kayfun is easy. Hell, I just watched a 1 minute of a video on youtube and have insane microcoils on my iHybrid Pure right now on the first try. The nic high I'm riding from 10mg Pluid at the moment is stupid.

All the beginning shit is honestly sort of shit. Even with a $175 mod, $100 hybrid, $110 atty, wick, wire, batteries, and $22/per30ml bottles of juice, I've spent SUBSTANTIALLY less than smoking. In fact, about $600 less. So, yea.

[Signe]

To answer my own question which was not a joke question, this has become a hobby and there's private clubs, like those smoking a cigar clubs, popping up.  There's even one in London but not Philadelphia. Maybe I'll go see when I go back.  This is really getting sort of trendy. 

[Ralence]

I agree with most of schild's recommendations.

For the Vamo, I think this: https://www.fasttech.com/products/1359402 is a better choice.  Nitecore charger and branded panasonic 18650 batteries.  I don't trust chinese batteries at all, in any way shape or form, or their generic chargers.  It also doesn't come with the shitty vivi nova tanks, but they're useless anyways.

I usually suggest Ego batteries, just because they're more compact, but most people end up with a Vamo anyways, so that's splitting hairs.

I'm not familiar with most of the juices you list, aside from honey peary, so I went to check them out.  WTF nothing smaller than 30ml from Elevated or Suicide Bunny?  I've had such bad experiences choosing flavors I really like, that I'm not sure I'm ready to plop down $22 for a flavor I may just give away.  I have nothing against people wanting to be more "high end", but even Vapor Chef does the 6ml bottles, and Alice in Vapeland has the "little of everything" sampler.

I think anyone who has access to a brick and mortar vape shop should just stop by and test a bunch for themselves.  Everytime I think I'll like a flavor, it tastes like ass.  The one's I don't expect, I fall in love with.

[schild]

Alice in Vapeland and Vapor Chef are good, but like, not that good. I don't quite know how to explain it, but a subset of the higher-end juices is just vastly superior to those (and Velvet Cloud). Frankly, I wish I could buy 100ml bottles of The Standard line (as well as Choo Cho Crunch). The only reason Honey Pearry is on the list is its cheaper than Melon Medley - which is strictly superior and won't give you vaper's tongue.

I've gone through like 45ml of Cell Block 4 in the last 4 weeks. That's not even with it being my adv. I just hit like 3ml of it a day. Urgh, so good. The only Suicide Bunny juice I've had thus far is Mother's Milk. At first I was like "Eh, whatever." But it grew on me by the end of the tank (I try to give every juice a 3ml tank's worth of a try).

Edit: As for the VAMO recommendation, part of my problem with the VAMO is its already "big" for entry level (hence my MVP recommendation alongside it). If I were very very specific, I'd say get the VAMO, body only, get eFest or AW 18350 IMR batteries, and a Nitecore charger - all separately. I *never* use my VAMO in 18650 mode. I use my Nemesis in 18650 mode all the time though (with a kayfun its' about as tall as the VAMO in 18650). In 18650 mode, the VAMO is basically one of those little bats you used to get at baseball games.

[Signe]

So I have decided this WILL be my hobby although I barely understand what most of you lot are on about.  No worries.  I'm clever and you guys gave lots of info, especially Schild  .  No nicotine though.  I'm thinking maybe it will replace some of the extremely odd and compulsive behaviour I've been exhibiting for the last few years some of which is a little weird and not always safe.  If it works, this will be awesome.  Maybe it'll go so well I'll write a book on how harmless vaping can rid you of your obsessions, compulsions, saying the first thing that pops into your mind regardless of how inappropriate it might be and the odd urge to steal other peoples stuff.  (almost always give them back but it's embarrassing.)  When the 'urges' hit, I just pop one into my mouth and chill... right?  This will be bausome.

[Ralence]

Alice in Vapeland and Vapor Chef are good, but like, not that good. I don't quite know how to explain it, but a subset of the higher-end juices is just vastly superior to those (and Velvet Cloud). Frankly, I wish I could buy 100ml bottles of The Standard line (as well as Choo Cho Crunch). The only reason Honey Pearry is on the list is its cheaper than Melon Medley - which is strictly superior and won't give you vaper's tongue.

It's clearly a personal preference thing.  I ordered 6ml of the Choo Choo Crunch based on your recommendation, and it's definitely not my thing.  Meanwhile, I'm cranking through 6ml of Hobbes Blood everyday and loving it.  I may just be pickier than most, but I've tried 100s of flavors from everywhere, and there's only maybe a dozen that I can actually vape an entire tank full without swapping out.  I'm pretty terrible at choosing things based on what I *think* I'll like, so I've gone through a ton of the 5ml samplers from all over the place.

[schild]

I mean, if you're not looking for Captain Crunch, Choo Choo Crunch is certainly going to be "Not Your Thing." But, if you like Hobbes' Blood, I can't help but recommend A-Train from Blueprint (which is also The Standard). I have both, but I'm going through A-Train faster.

Tark Vemada sent me some of his Reserve line today, specifically Old Gold, Matador, and Camelot. I've never liked any tobacco vapes, but he says I should give these a go. I still like tobacco as a flavor, just not off the stank of a cigarette - so we'll see how it goes. If you're wondering: http://www.modnworld.com/Artisan_Juices_s/1866.htm

[Miasma]

FFS now I feel like a bowl of Captain Crunch cereal.  I don't even know if they make that anymore.

[schild]

They do! We bought some recently.

[Furiously]

It's a good thing I had to give up gluten or Opps all berries would have been the death of me.

[Signe]

I just got mine today.  I LOVE it!  No nicotine, but I think I can cut out my morning Xanax and maybe even one Prozac if I use it when I get up.  And with my coffee.  I have missed smoking tobacco for like a decade.  I hardly ever cheated but I still have always wanted a ciggie every minute of every day since I stopped.  It takes all my willpower to keep from starting again.  It's not the nicotine or even just the tobacco taste, I think, it's the smoking.  And this weird contraption is cool.  Once cannabis is legal here (probably never so I'll have to move) and in England (who knows?), it'll be even coolerand sexy and very very useful!  I wish they were smaller, though.

Thank you, Eric Schild, when I die you can have my stuff.

[schild]

Yay! I don't need your stuff though! What did you order for yourself? And yea, it works as well as cigarettes for the addiction portion.

[Signe]

I bet you want my stuff.  I have the in-store promo stuff for the first 2 Zorks, Leather Goddess of Phobos, and some of the junk from the release of Centipede.  Garage sale.  Wish I knew where it all was.  Somewhere in Linda's cellar, I think.

Anyway, I got this Chinese thing for my first because I wasn't sure if I would like it.  I had a coupon and it was on sale.  It was this:

   Apollo Superior eGo CE4 Kit
[Color:Stainless Steel]
[Flavor:Tobacco]
[Strength:Zero (0mg)]   1   

It works great.
 

I didn't buy anything else until I tried it and then I ordered two flavours from Halo, Kringle's Kurse because I love peppermint and this kind has no calories, and Longhorn because, you know... COWBOYS!  I also found that you can't always get what you want with no nicotine.  There's a shop not too far away from here, http://www.vaporphoxxe.com/, and I think I'll visit them at some point.  Just to see.  I think you can get soy candles there, too.  I love soy candles.

I ended up with a twitchy tummy last night.  I think I may have over-vaped my e-juice.  (not in a pervy way)

[MahrinSkel]

PG can cause twitchiness, mild nausea, and muscle cramps.  Goes away for most people after a week or two.

--Dave

[Pennilenko]

I am trying to find out how long juice should last before I invest. For instance, how long does 30ml last under heavy usage?  I got people in local shops telling me different stuff about usage and cost and quality of liquids.  This thread has already been very useful, and has helped me avoid purchasing a bunch of cheap garbage equipment.  I am now hopeful that you all can help me with usage expectations.

[schild]

I can! But I need to know what sort of tank you bought / are planning to buy. Genesis tanks go through juice a lot faster than, uh, anything, for example. Kayfuns I get about 6ml a day out of. Carto tanks @ 5ml do NOT burn through juice quickly. Getting through all 5 without chain vaping would be exhausting. Etc etc. Whatcha buying?

[Xanthippe]

I don't have a calming hobby and I need one.  My shrink says so.  I wonder if this would make a good hobby.  I LOVED smoking.  They make stuff even without nicotine, too.  I could puff away like I'm Greta Garbo.  My shrink suggested making some sort of feathery shit for fly fishing, which I don't understand at all and it looks dangerously pointy.  Or painting.  I would probably paint pictures of people smoking.  So, what do you think?  Or is this just stupid for a hobby?  I mean you guys seem SO into it and it even has terminology!

PS  This isn't a joke post, please.

A calming hobby for me is knitting. It's like yoga for my brain somehow, and I get serious pleasure out of the visual/sensual of a beautiful yarn (like MadelineTosh). There are a zillion tutorial videos online, and the tools can be found cheaply (especially used off ebay and so on). If you're interested in learning, I'd be happy to help.

I only miss smoking sometimes (after quitting 18 years ago) and it's brand specific (Camel Filters) but you know what I really don't miss is having a monkey on my back. It's nice to not have to need anything ever (except air and food and water).

I'm confused about this whole ejuice thing. Does it satisfy smoking urges? Do people go from tobacco to ejuice with nicotine to ejuice without? How does it affect people in the room? My town has anti-smoking ordinances covering downtown, and some people want to add ecigs to that. Why would that be necessary?

Thanks, Schild, for that informative post even though I only read half of it and it made my eyes glaze over.

[Engels]

I'm confused about this whole ejuice thing. Does it satisfy smoking urges? Do people go from tobacco to ejuice with nicotine to ejuice without? How does it affect people in the room? My town has anti-smoking ordinances covering downtown, and some people want to add ecigs to that. Why would that be necessary?

It somewhat satisfies the urge to smoke and it definitly removes the nicotine urge behind 80% of it. It also alleviates the oral fixation and need to fiddle that smoking is associated with.

As far as I know, there is little to no effect to bystanders, but you will want to do your own research. Its PG and VG, which are common ingredients in asthma inhalers. And a bit of nicotine which as a trace amounts of a carcinogen, but you probably inhale 5 times the amount of toxins just by wandering in traffic.

Also, your town is filled with hysterical asshats. Go to a town meeting and hose them down.

[Pennilenko]

I can! But I need to know what sort of tank you bought / are planning to buy. Genesis tanks go through juice a lot faster than, uh, anything, for example. Kayfuns I get about 6ml a day out of. Carto tanks @ 5ml do NOT burn through juice quickly. Getting through all 5 without chain vaping would be exhausting. Etc etc. Whatcha buying?

Well actually I haven't decided on a tank yet. I smoke less than a pack a week. Usually only on breaks at school which is like 10 to 12 cigarettes a week.  I am trying to figure out how much I am going to spend to mimic that usage maybe a little more. I could really use a skilled equipment suggestion based on my expected light to medium usage.

What has kind of made me waver is the cost of the juice.  The nice flavored stuff I have seen you guys post here looks expensive to me.  Also a concern I have is ending up vaping more than I actually smoke now, I tried out a friends kit and the nicotine buzz was pretty intense, although he said he vapes with juices that have the highest nicotine content.

Edit: Forgot to add, based on your post there I will likely lean in the direction of a Carto tank, provided there aren't any maintenance issues.

[Xanthippe]

Also, your town is filled with hysterical asshats. Go to a town meeting and hose them down.

What's hilarious is that the same people who complain about tobacco don't complain about people smoking whacky tobacky, which smells worse to me than tobacco.

And yes, this town is dysfunction junction on so many levels.

[Signe]

I love the smell of wacky tobacky and not just because I'm a bit of a pothead.  I also like the smell of regular tobacco burning.  Wood, natural incense, etc.  What I don't like is the smell when it's on someone's breath or hair or clothing.  I don't need nicotine anymore so I use mine with 0 nicotine.  I love it.  I've been smoking something named "Sahara" which is rather nice.  A sort of dry tobacco.  The RY4 is lovely, too.  I'm trying to find something a bit more woodsy, though.  The e-juice seems to last me a really long time, too, so it's not too bad on the wallet. 

[Engels]

I have recently taken on aromatic teas because the one thing I do miss most about smoking is the organic sense of foliage being burnt. Namely, I actually miss the 'grounding' effect of smoke. I presume most people don't get this, but I don't care too much. The best tea for me is Lapsang tea. I get a pine smoked Lapsang from Remedy Teas in Seattle that smells like a campfire and just sooths my soul in a way that I have missed since quitting smoking.

[schild]

Some of the more expensive juices I listed come in at around $0.75/ml. I can't speak to my own experience because I practically chainvape and it's on high end gear that can burn through liquid, but the girl had me fill a 5ml carto tank yesterday morning, she's halfway through now - a full day later. So, I guess that's about $2.25 in juice a day. I know for a fact I don't do $7.84 (price of what I smoked) in juice a day, but I might do like $4-$5. Genesis tanks are juice burners.

[Furiously]

I just got a bottle of train choo choo crunch and it is delicious. I'm not so sold on the uncle junks belgianberry. It might need to seep or something. But that captain crunch flavor is amazing. I have a new daily good.

[Signe]

I have recently taken on aromatic teas because the one thing I do miss most about smoking is the organic sense of foliage being burnt. Namely, I actually miss the 'grounding' effect of smoke. I presume most people don't get this, but I don't care too much. The best tea for me is Lapsang tea. I get a pine smoked Lapsang from Remedy Teas in Seattle that smells like a campfire and just sooths my soul in a way that I have missed since quitting smoking.

This makes total sense to me.  In fact, I look for the same sort teas.  I really like Green Hojicha  and Wuyi Oolong teas.  The Hojicha is really woodsy and if they made an e-juice from it, I'd so be there.  Some of these teas are really expensive.  I buy from The Republic of Tea because you can usually get a small sample size for a fiver.  I've never had trouble with the tea being too old, either, like some other tea place whose name I forgot. 

[schild]

I just got a bottle of train choo choo crunch and it is delicious. I'm not so sold on the uncle junks belgianberry. It might need to seep or something. But that captain crunch flavor is amazing. I have a new daily good.

I've never had the belgianberry. My favorite Uncle Junk juice is Monica's Eyes.