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Author Topic: Diablo 3: Reaper of Souls  (Read 367008 times)
Ironwood
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Reply #175 on: August 26, 2013, 08:16:21 AM

Because of Fuck You, that's why.

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ezrast
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Reply #176 on: August 26, 2013, 09:25:10 AM

Word, that's what I was saying from the start but everyone was all "Nooo, the combat is best-in-genre, it's because other people buying shit for real money ruins my fun somehow."

why so serious?
Abelian75
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Reply #177 on: August 26, 2013, 10:56:24 AM

Well, I still do think the AH is really, really sucky.  And not just (or even especially) the real money part of it.  That kind of did ruin a lot of the game for me.
Fabricated
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Reply #178 on: August 26, 2013, 02:24:41 PM

My crappy monk felt a bit squishy but after playing for 2 hours and not finding a usable drop I just bought 3 items off the AH that were 100 times better just by limiting my search to Dexterity->Vitality->More Armor than my current piece. Working as intended! I mean, it was soulless and boring and I didn't really look at the items for more than 2 seconds before equipping them but still working as intended!

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Soulflame
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Reply #179 on: August 26, 2013, 02:36:36 PM

I've played a monk a bit as well, she's about 51, and getting exploded.  I know it's a problem that can be solved by AH, because her gear is sadly out of date.  She's still wearing a piece that is level 26, and another that is level 27, because I haven't found pieces with better dex/stam/armor.

 swamp poop
Fabricated
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Reply #180 on: August 26, 2013, 03:03:40 PM

I use all of the defensive skills. The lashing kick with the stun rune, the AOE punch thing that slows attackers with the rune that lowers their damage, blinding flash with the rune that lowers hit chance on champs or higher by 60%, 7-sided strike with whatever which I use to survive big AOEs since you're invincible while doing it and it takes a long time to finish. Mantra of Evasion too.

edit: ah here we go - http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Fabricated-1825/hero/3684225
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 03:07:22 PM by Fabricated »

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Fabricated
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Reply #181 on: August 26, 2013, 04:15:56 PM

Oh hey, a legendary dropped in my game just now.



Well, I guess at least it's better after a gem...provided I don't mind losing a bunch of armor from my shield.

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Hawkbit
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Reply #182 on: August 26, 2013, 05:05:12 PM

Yeah, but fragrances, man.  Fragrances.
Malakili
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Reply #183 on: August 26, 2013, 05:23:28 PM

To be fair, I did a playthrough of Diablo 2 with a friend before Diablo 3 came out for one last hurrah, and the following happened:

I was playing Amazon.  I found a nice bow at the beginning of Act 2 (rare!), and promptly equipped it and kicked ass.  And then I didn't find another weapon upgrade all the way through Diablo and I'm not exaggerating.  Sure, my luck sucked, but if I could have ditched a 2-act old bow for an AH bought item I would have done it in an instant by act 4.

I've gone back to playing Hardcore, definitely injects some more fun into the game.
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Reply #184 on: August 26, 2013, 05:26:49 PM

Nevermind on the legendary, I switched to it to try it out and it sucks.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Ironwood
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Reply #185 on: August 27, 2013, 02:34:23 AM


  Sure, my luck sucked, but if I could have ditched a 2-act old bow for an AH bought item I would have done it in an instant by act 4.


Well, yeah, but you constantly miss the point :  By doing this, you're not really 'playing' the game anymore.  You're playing an entirely different kind of game and one that is, to my mind, not really as much fun.

(Also, your luck really, really must have sucked.)

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Merusk
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Reply #186 on: August 27, 2013, 05:19:37 AM

Nevermind on the legendary, I switched to it to try it out and it sucks.

Not a surprise.

"Hey, this legendary weapon is monk-only.  Should we flag it to make sure useless stats don't show up?"
"Nah, Intelligence is totally useful to monks. It's ok!"

 Ohhhhh, I see.

There's a fundamental disconnect in the way Blizzard designed items and forced primary stats that they apparently still refuse to fix.
Then again, why would they? People are so willing to rush to the AH to find a better one that bots harvested and Blizz gets a financial kick when those are bought.

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Malakili
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Reply #187 on: August 27, 2013, 05:37:41 AM



Well, yeah, but you constantly miss the point :  By doing this, you're not really 'playing' the game anymore.  You're playing an entirely different kind of game and one that is, to my mind, not really as much fun.



Well, we've had this discussion before, but most of my hours played in Diablo 2 were closed battle.net and I traded with a lot of people.  So to me the idea of using items I didn't find myself is pretty normal.  I do understand that this isn't how most people played the game - especially around here.  Personally, I'd have been just as happy if this game didn't have an AH as long as it had a decent chat channels to make trading a little easier.

Of course, the main issue is that regardless you don't find enough decent stuff on your own in Diablo 3 - especially while leveling.  There is absolutely no reason to have such low drop rates for decent stuff when leveling, particularly from bosses.  In my Diablo 2 example, my luck was terrible.  In Diablo 3, the experience is totally normal.


Not a surprise.

"Hey, this legendary weapon is monk-only.  Should we flag it to make sure useless stats don't show up?"
"Nah, Intelligence is totally useful to monks. It's ok!"

 Ohhhhh, I see.

There's a fundamental disconnect in the way Blizzard designed items and forced primary stats that they apparently still refuse to fix.
Then again, why would they? People are so willing to rush to the AH to find a better one that bots harvested and Blizz gets a financial kick when those are bought.

The problem with that weapon isn't the intelligence.  I'll take +7 all resist on my weapon just fine, the Dex and vit rolls are solid.  But the DPS is utter shit when you're talking about a two handed weapon that has a slow attack speed and prevents you from using a shield.  For a low-mid 50s legendary, there is no reason that shouldn't be at least 50% higher.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 05:40:14 AM by Malakili »
Soulflame
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Reply #188 on: August 27, 2013, 06:58:04 AM

In Diablo 2, the whole "I can't find a new bow after act 2 until god knows when, maybe act 1 or act 2 nightmare" is pretty much normal.  I'd get so desperate for any sort of upgrade that I'd take a 3 socket war bow (long or short, whatever I could find) and slap the three biggest gems in it I had. I'd generally twink down bows, not because I really wanted to, but because otherwise the game would become fairly miserable for a long stretch. All hail the frozen orb + hydra sorceress with ridiculous magic find.  Ohhhhh, I see.

Of course it doesn't help that all of the normal unique bows are completely terrible.
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Reply #189 on: August 27, 2013, 07:35:28 AM

Need more Pindleskin.

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Reply #190 on: August 27, 2013, 10:34:26 AM

Rasix
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Reply #191 on: August 27, 2013, 10:37:39 AM

That's a lot of drama and .jpg.

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MrHat
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Reply #192 on: August 27, 2013, 10:45:14 AM

INSULTING
Rokal
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Reply #193 on: August 27, 2013, 10:50:47 AM

I love that image because it covers everything that is really wrong with D3's loot while also re-affirming that the expansion isn't going to do shit to fix it.
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Reply #194 on: August 27, 2013, 11:26:52 AM

I love that image because it covers everything that is really wrong with D3's loot while also re-affirming that the expansion isn't going to do shit to fix it.

And it still would have been twice as bearable without the AH bashing you over the head with how shitty your loot is and the game at least at launch being designed in such a way that progression was tortuous without going to the AH fairly often for an upgrade or six because none of your drops were ever going to be good enough especially in hardcore.

So yeah they aren't fixing loot though they seem to have made the game so easy now that if they made a NO-AH league/ladder/race it could be fun to take for a spin if you don't feel like Fab does about the quality of the combat itself.

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #195 on: August 27, 2013, 11:36:53 AM

What I think killed the fun for me was that all the gear in my runs was simply for selling and anything I wanted was on the ah. I know I could have just avoided the ah altogether but it was part of the game

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Reply #196 on: August 27, 2013, 12:44:20 PM

red on black my eyes

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Reply #197 on: August 27, 2013, 02:29:55 PM

What I think killed the fun for me was that all the gear in my runs was simply for selling and anything I wanted was on the ah. I know I could have just avoided the ah altogether but it was part of the game

EXACTLY.

The guy that made that graph understands Diablo loot, why doesn't Blizzard?
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Reply #198 on: August 27, 2013, 03:06:06 PM

I do wonder what it's like at Blizzard HQ. These people play their games, you'd think these issues would bother them as much as everyone else.

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Reply #199 on: August 27, 2013, 03:15:22 PM

The image is not only entirely true, it's obviously true to anyone who played the game to 60.  How the devs didn't realize their gear/stat system was utter shit is beyond me.  I think the best part of it all is how much better a tiny indie dev out of New Zealand did with their gear and stat systems.  I like to think of it as passion for the source material (Diablo 2) trumping the focus-tested-into-obliivion-bullshit-method, although I don't know if that's really what went wrong with Diablo 3.
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Reply #200 on: August 27, 2013, 03:59:13 PM

I think the #1 goal of D3's design was the RMAH. That's what happened.

« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 04:38:08 PM by Hoax »

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Malakili
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Reply #201 on: August 27, 2013, 04:17:20 PM

I think the #1 goal of D3's design was the RMAH. That's what happened.

Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity.  The RM economy was lively in D2 and that wasn't even with a sanctioned way of buying/selling.  In fact, I would imagine that people would be a lot more keen to drop 10 dollars on an item that lets them play their character in a new and interesting way instead for a 2.0% increased chance to crit. They just failed spectacularly at creating compelling itemization.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 04:19:08 PM by Malakili »
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Reply #202 on: August 27, 2013, 05:58:06 PM

I'm the really bad jpeg artifacts.

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luckton
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Reply #203 on: August 29, 2013, 11:42:25 AM

Ya'lls loot prayers may have been answered...

Diablo 3: Reaper of Souls loot system designed to “cut the legs out from the auction house”

Quote
Diablo III’s controversial in-game gold and real-money auction house has been such a point of contention that even the game’s former lead designer admitted that it “really hurt the game”. While it will remain for upcoming expansion Reaper of Souls, an updated loot system – which will go live for all players via a free patch just before the expansion launches – has been created specifically to draw players away from the trading post, and back towards the streets and corridors of gib-prone monsters.

When asked about the loot system changes, lead content designer Kevin Martens told us that, while trading is a perfectly legitimate way to get an item, playing the game should always be the most effective. “It is fun to go buy something instantly, the instant gratification feel, that sugar high,” he said, “however it’s not the core fantasy, it’s not the most fun and by the endgame, for a variety of reasons, they tend to check the auction house first and play the game second.”

“That’s not what we intend, and we do want to address that, so the loot system and the enchanting and crafting systems are both intended to cut the legs out from the auction house; to make it unnecessary to go on it to some degree, where the most fun way to play the game becomes the best way to play the game.”

‘Loot 2.0′ will add “smart drop” items, which are tuned to your character. More legendaries are also planned, with extra effects, such as a staff that can spawn hydras from dead bodies. A new artisan, the Mystic, will be introduced, letting players transmute items – transferring the stats of one over to another. In addition, the new Loot Run mode will randomly generate a new 15-20 minute dungeon, letting you go treasure hunting without repeating the same locations.

Martens explained how the new system will ensure that the most efficient method to get gear is also the most fun. “So we say ‘Oh, you want efficiency? How about efficiency, like Loot Runs, how about you definitely get the best gear from there. Mathematically, that’s the best.’ Then they can stop doing that Alkaizer run in act three that everyone does.”

Lead writer Brian Kindregan noted the benefit of keeping people away from Diablo 2′s risky third-party trading sites, but clarifies that “we want the Auction House to be your last resort, right?”

“You play the game to have the fun, get the loot,” Kindregan said. “If you can’t find one particular thing, you craft it. If you can’t craft it, okay, then you go to the auction house.”

Despite its problems, Blizzard have no plans to simply cut the auction house. “Trading’s not invalid,” said Martens, “it’s just that its been skewed so if you’re a character who’s spending money maybe you’re getting eighty percent of your gear from the Auction House, and 20 percent in game. It should be the reverse at best. It’s more fun to kill monsters. It’s the same thing I said about Loot Runs. If you wan’t the best gear, let’s put it in a place in-game where you’re killing monsters.”

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Reply #204 on: August 29, 2013, 12:02:34 PM

That's actually the same info as before but just re-worded differently with a more positively spun article. The AH will still be powerful but less so, as previously mentioned, which I like but don't feel they're going far enough or at least not telling enough information on how the AH will become 20% of the loot source vs 80% currently (using the article's examples).

tl;dr
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 12:04:22 PM by Segoris »
Ironwood
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Reply #205 on: August 29, 2013, 12:11:31 PM

The only way to cut the AH off is to make the best items drop from the game, with reasonable percentages, and bind to account.

Otherwise, the Chinese Army will always make it easier to drop the gold.

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Reply #206 on: August 29, 2013, 12:56:02 PM

Did anyone else get a D3 survey a few days ago?  It was a long survey, took maybe 20 minutes to complete.  It asked about what I think the major failures of D3 were, and whether I am interested in the xpac. 

They would have generated a lot of goodwill with me if they had offered D3 for PS3 for ~$20 for those of us that bought on PC.  I'd have bought it for my console at 20-30, but I'm not dropping full price again. 
Mrbloodworth
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Reply #207 on: August 29, 2013, 01:35:56 PM

I think the #1 goal of D3's design was the RMAH. That's what happened.

Some said this before ( launch ), but were chased out with torches. Diabloons.

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Ironwood
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Reply #208 on: August 29, 2013, 01:56:38 PM

Lots said this.  But there were (and still are) people who are fooling themselves that Blizzard still put gaming and quality ahead of pure bottom line.

So there's that.

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Tannhauser
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Reply #209 on: August 29, 2013, 02:40:52 PM

 “however it’s not the core fantasy, it’s not the most fun and by the endgame, for a variety of reasons, they tend to check the auction house first and play the game second.”

There are no 'variety of reasons' we go to the AH, that's where the good gear is.  This quote almost makes it sound like they are blaming the player.

Under the guise of 'protecting the players' you put in two AH's and an always online restriction.  You then got your cut from the AH's since that is where the good gear resides while dumb fucks like me played and played fruitlessly hoping for that good drop.  In the name of skimming off the top, you tarnished your brand. 

Now that a year's gone by and you've wrung as much as possible from the AH money mills, you announce that you will make drops valuable, coincidentally just before your xpac is released.

 'We're sorry, why not try our xpac?  You know we've learned from our mistakes.  We're sorry.  Our xpac fixes all the problems and will blow you tonight behind the Dairy Queen.  Did I mention that we're sorry?'

I'm sorry too Blizzard, I'm sorry to see what you've become.
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