GET YER E3 BULLSHIT RIGHT HERE

[Cyrrex]

Welp, thats it for Microsoft and consoles. I cannot see how this gen will do anything but crush the Xbox line.

I wouldn't go that far. There are millions upon millions of people who buy consoles, the majority of whom don't care that people on game forums hate DRM and restricting used game sales. Particularly in the U.S. where the 360 has been pretty dominant, there are probably a lot of people who have Xbox now and see a new one coming out and just figure that's what they're going to get, and hey they can watch the NFL on it and play some shooting games. The shit MS is doing will cost them a lot of support, but I don't think it's too the point where they're just going to tank completely.

While the dudebro 360 crowd don't care about DRM, they do usually care about money and the PS4 is $100 cheaper.

I expect the dudebro crowd ultimately cares as much about the DRM as anyone else does.  Do they not also loan games to friends?  Rent games?  By them used and then sell them back?  Of course they do. 

But yeah, long way to go.  I think eventually MS has to reel this atrocity back in and come with a new approach, because they will categorically lose the next gen race if they don't.

[Velorath]

They'll care about the DRM as soon as it starts effecting them, but right now even to people like us who follow this stuff closely, the details are still horribly nebulous. I think how much the average person decides to take issue with it will largely depend on how the mainstream media covers it during the holiday season (hell, they helped whip people who didn't even usually play games into a frenzy over the Wii).

[Rendakor]

I think they're already offering a $300 with 2 year subscription package, but that may have just been a rumor.

[palmer_eldritch]

They can enforce it through the mechanism of your game not working if you live in the wrong region. It's not like they care too much, their press conference made it eminently clear they are almost completely US centric.

It will certainly be interesting if they get sued, but it's not like that's a new experience for them either.

The US has a GDP of $15.68 trillion. The EU has a GDP of $15.82 trillion. (According to Wikipedia). The US may still be a better market because it has a higher GDP per head which I guess probably means a higher average disposable income, but there's no way a company like Microsoft just doesn't care about the European market. They care about making money.

[Fabricated]

I won't write the XBONE off completely because it is the descendant of the bro console of choice and the PS3 honestly kinda sucked online. Those images stick.

Now, the first time some major universities have network outages over construction/etc or when students move into their new apartments every semester, and discover they can no longer play their XBONE because the internet connection at their new place hasn't been set up yet we might see some complaints from people who aren't /v/, Kotaku, or NeoGAF posters.

[Kageru]

The CoD and Halo people will buy it because "Man, it's an XBOX and you can play HALO! All my bro's are getting one!".

Thankfully I don't think there's that much growth in that market and I'm unlikely to have much interest in the games aimed at that market. Seeing Fuse and Dead Rising where the whole market is trying to make variations on CoD (plus sports and driving) pretty much confirms it is becoming less interesting all the time.

It would be fascinating to know what analysis prompted microsoft to take this approach. But they've always been poor at reading the market.

[Bzalthek]

I think Microsoft is being affected by the cognitive dissonance that is affecting much of America today.  They're in their own echo chamber, surrounded by yes men, and refuse to believe anything that doesn't confirm their starting opinion.  There's a good chunk of hyperbole in what I just said, but the symptoms are very similar to what you see from people in the news lately who say completely over the top bullshit.  Microsoft had their little presser earlier where they let a lot of shit fly, and people responded heavily that no, this is not a good idea.  E3 was them going double down on the stupid.  I don't expect MS to turn anything around until about 3 months after a significant "restructuring."

[Merusk]

I think Jeff is right on this. I really wonder what the hell are thinking at Microsoft, or what kind of stunt they are gonna pull in order to "try" and enforce this.

Never attribute to malice what can be covered by incompetence.  I'd be very willing to bet that the team never consulted with Ms Europe division, who are now sending urgent internal emails.

You'd think, having shipped two previous generations of consoles with an online store feature in various international markets, this shouldn't be a surprise to them...

How many people are at *your* office who were there 4 years ago?  5? 8?  Are they in the same positions? Are they overseeing the position they used to have so they can apply or pass-along their experience?  

It's been my experience in the non-tech sector that the answers to the above are around: 30%, 10% 3%.  About 3%.  No.  
I can't believe that in the much-more-malleable tech sector where a long-term employee has been there about 5 years that it's any better.  (Hell Median age of employment for people 25-34 is only 3 years.)

Someday we'll learn that corporate experience means nothing if it's not applied correctly or retained.  As always, it's all about the individuals.

[Lantyssa]

It's not like anyone listens to the people who have been around.  My advise was completely ignored when choosing the solid company over the used car salesman in order to save* a few thousand dollars.

* Where save equates to spending several thousand more than the not-taken bid in the six month period following and no end in sight.

[Sky]

I ... am literally sick to death of fucking Star Wars?

[UnSub]

Not exactly the same situation, but I was in an EB not too long ago where a teenage boy was begging his mother to buy Destiny for him because it was by the same people who did Halo.

MS' biggest concern in attracting that group is being US$100 more expensive than the PS4. They'll need to show that they're offering $100 worth of extra value.

[kaid]

Not exactly the same situation, but I was in an EB not too long ago where a teenage boy was begging his mother to buy Destiny for him because it was by the same people who did Halo.

MS' biggest concern in attracting that group is being US$100 more expensive than the PS4. They'll need to show that they're offering $100 worth of extra value.

Unfortunately for the Xbox one that 100 dollars more is pretty much the integrated kinect stuff. Unless devs find some really unique and interesting ways to utlize that there are a large chunk of people for whom that 100 extra bucks is a straight waste.

[sickrubik]

I won't write the XBONE off completely because it is the descendant of the bro console of choice and the PS3 honestly kinda sucked online. Those images stick.

Now, the first time some major universities have network outages over construction/etc or when students move into their new apartments every semester, and discover they can no longer play their XBONE because the internet connection at their new place hasn't been set up yet we might see some complaints from people who aren't /v/, Kotaku, or NeoGAF posters.

If the image stuck that much, PS3 would have fared better because of how much more popular the PS2 was over the XBox.

[Paelos]

I ... am literally sick to death of fucking Star Wars?

Captain Pun is getting pedantic?

[Sky]

I ... am literally sick to death of fucking Star Wars?

Captain Pun is getting pedantic?

Literally.

[HaemishM]

Figuratively spent on the entire Star Wars phenomenon. I loved it as a child and into adulthood. George Lucas FIGURATIVELY broke me.

[Sky]

I agree, for the most part. I still have a warm place for the IP in general for some reason, and look forward to Empire setting Battlefield. I even mostly like TOR except where they kept making it more and more WoW-like.

[Ingmar]

I think the idea that EU law is somehow going to come as a giant surprise to MS is silly. There's no way they don't have some kind of plan to deal with those issues. Console makers are not in the same category of derp as game studios; these are big companies with tons of experience in all kinds of business segments, they aren't going to just walk into a door on something like this.

[jakonovski]

What gets me is that on paper this should be a complete faceplant for MS.

Steam is able to do what they do because it's a relatively small US based company that deals entirely in digital products, so it's hard to go after that and so the authorities opt for laziness. Microsoft however is a big juicy target that has a real presence in the EU, and the infringing product is easily defined and has a physical dimension to it. There's also precedent that the EU is actually willing to go after MS.

[Merusk]

I think the idea that EU law is somehow going to come as a giant surprise to MS is silly. There's no way they don't have some kind of plan to deal with those issues. Console makers are not in the same category of derp as game studios; these are big companies with tons of experience in all kinds of business segments, they aren't going to just walk into a door on something like this.

I'd agree except for the part where MS keeps doing it on big-ticket EU items knowing they just have to pay a fine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_litigation#European_Union

[Ingmar]

Right? That's kind of my point. If the sort of fines that they get for anti-trust behavior aren't a deterrent, why would anyone think they'd care about whatever minor nuisances arise from a smaller issue like this?

[jakonovski]

MS actually complied with the EU demands in addition to getting fined, so it's not exactly like they got off scot free. Unless I'm missing something.

[Merusk]

MS actually complied with the EU demands in addition to getting fined, so it's not exactly like they got off scot free. Unless I'm missing something.

They got additional fines in 2008 for not complying, which they are tying-up legally.

2011 lists that Spain started a right-of-first-sale investigation on digital goods, which means MS is clear till, oh, 2015 before they really have to worry about that problem.

[luckton]

[Azazel]

The CoD and Halo people will buy it because "Man, it's an XBOX and you can play HALO! All my bro's are getting one!".

Because CoD is an Xbox exclusive or something? 

[Rendakor]

No, but most dudebro types seem to prefer to play it on Xbox since the online is better or something.

[Margalis]

The online was better when 360 and PS3 launched, now the online on every system is pretty comparable. Sony just needs to add party chat and it will be 1-for-1 with Live in terms of features.

The biggest feature of an online console community is size anyway. The 360 online experience was better largely because it got of to a good start so people played more online games on 360. Once you have that momentum it's hard to lose it - if someone's friends are buying a game for X system they will too so they can play together.

[sickrubik]

The XBox still has timed exclusives for CoD as well, so.. there's that for the bros.

[Velorath]

The online was better when 360 and PS3 launched, now the online on every system is pretty comparable. Sony just needs to add party chat and it will be 1-for-1 with Live in terms of features.

The biggest feature of an online console community is size anyway. The 360 online experience was better largely because it got of to a good start so people played more online games on 360. Once you have that momentum it's hard to lose it - if someone's friends are buying a game for X system they will too so they can play together.

Given that a Live sub gives you access to Live on both the 360 and the Xbone, and that people on one system can communicate with people on the other I'm curious if that will have any effect on people's purchasing decisions, particularly early on when a lot of people will have friends that aren't going to buying a new system at launch. The communities aren't exactly starting over from scratch, but Sony also might actually be fracturing their community slightly by putting a paywall up for online multiplayer where they didn't have one before.

[01101010]

Given that a Live sub gives you access to Live on both the 360 and the Xbone, and that people on one system can communicate with people on the other I'm curious if that will have any effect on people's purchasing decisions, particularly early on when a lot of people will have friends that aren't going to buying a new system at launch. The communities aren't exactly starting over from scratch, but Sony also might actually be fracturing their community slightly by putting a paywall up for online multiplayer where they didn't have one before.

I doubt it (fracturing Sony's community) since the other alternative is not exactly free.

doh, never mind. I misread that. I get what you are saying.

[Threash]

I just talked to my brother who plays nothing but consoles.  He said he's getting the xbone because he likes the xbox controllers better than the ps ones.  When told about all this stuff that we think is so important his reaction was "i don't care about that shit man".

[Venkman]

He's had a chance to hold the X360 controller?

MS' biggest concern in attracting that group is being US$100 more expensive than the PS4.

Nah. Nobody who can scrape together $400 for a console is thinking about cost-savings. Remember how quickly it became standard in the last generation for people to have a Wii and either an Xbox or PS3.

The biggest threat to this generation has been the decline of the overall core business, which has been happening for awhile, and not because of the global recession which contributed to the extended console cycle. The college kids are starting to move on from even laptops, dudebros are having kids, the console exclusives aren't what they used to be, and most of the best titles won't require a new console purchase until probably Q2 2014 at this point.

For MS in the twitter generation, it's much harder to solve bad PR with effective marketing. Everyone loves to pounce on something, and MS's stupidly complicated and nebulous message is going to become mainstream because they can't help how they act. It'll be Win8 all over again.

Meanwhile for Sony, they're message is easier to grasp because it's changed the least. Their whole conference was basically "we're changing nothing!". That plays very well for an E3 crowd that is so hoping things don't actually change. While they are.

Sony and MS will sell plenty well, but I think they'll both have disappointing holidays.

[Phred]

Yeah, it's just confusion due to the mention of DRM being up to the publishers, which sounds like what Microsoft was saying about it being up to the publishers to choose whether to use Xbox One's DRM infrastructure or not.  In this case Sony is just saying any DRM of that kind is entirely up to the publisher to decide upon and implement with no assistance from Sony.  Bad wording, though, and I'm sure it will be clarified.

Don't forget as well, Microsoft are past masters at the art of FUD.

[Margalis]

I just talked to my brother who plays nothing but consoles.  He said he's getting the xbone because he likes the xbox controllers better than the ps ones.  When told about all this stuff that we think is so important his reaction was "i don't care about that shit man".

You should tell him that a lot of people in that camp are saying that the PS4 controller is better than the xbone one.

[01101010]

The trend of having anyone say anything criticizing the Xbone will automatically be deemed a troll is aggravating... predictable, but seriously aggravating. Bring up a few very important short comings of the Xbone without even mentioning the PS4 and you are deemed a troll and hand-waved off as a Sony fanboy. I hardly see the opposite happening with any type of frequency. I know I shouldn't be, but I am a little astounded by the head-in-the-sand reaction to everyone who is sticking by the Xbone.