GET YER E3 BULLSHIT RIGHT HERE

[Cyrrex]

Name me a PC exclusive that has bloated control scheme, excluding flight simulators.

Well you'll probably don't let it count anyway because PC > console in your mind so you'll find a way to turn it so that PC is still 'better'/efficient whatever.

All I can say is that I want to dick punch every developer that pushes the inane WASD control scheme on me. That is the simple biggest design fail in the history of ever.

I don't mind using the keyboard to give me shortcuts to functions, spells or anything and the mouse is the best device for aiming or moving your view around (at least until someone does a perfect WiiMote-like device) but WASD is simply stupid and every developer that does it needs to reevaluate his life.

I like controllers because it's way easier to manage your movement and your viewpoint on a dual analog stick controller as it can ever be on a WASD + mouse or mouse control scheme.

If I had to choose between accurate aim and WASD and less accurate aim but dual analog controller I'd always choose dual analog controllers because at least that scheme doesn't give me carpal tunnel.

The Wii scheme - if the aiming was much more accurate would have been perfect if you can live with the limited number of buttons.

Also if your game needs more than 10 shortcuts and you are not a competitive multiplayer game (like an MMO or RTS) you're doing it wrong

 

Not getting into the argument of bloat and shortcuts and all that, but really?  WASD + mouse is such a precise movement control that I have a hard time imagining anything surpassing it that doesn't involve our brainwaves being transmitted into our PCs.  Some people are so good at it that it borders on eerie.  It is far easier to manage in almost every scenario, barring things that require top-down views and/or the control of multiple characters (I am thinking things like Madden or Fifa).  

As for carpal tunnel....I don't know.  My pet theory is that the more people use this shit, the more resistant we become to it.  I never even get a twinge of soreness or tiredness anymore...I only did in my early years of heavy PC gaming.

[Rendakor]

Name me a PC exclusive that has bloated control scheme, excluding flight simulators.

Well you'll probably don't let it count anyway because PC > console in your mind so you'll find a way to turn it so that PC is still 'better'/efficient whatever.

All I can say is that I want to dick punch every developer that pushes the inane WASD control scheme on me. That is the simple biggest design fail in the history of ever.

I don't mind using the keyboard to give me shortcuts to functions, spells or anything and the mouse is the best device for aiming or moving your view around (at least until someone does a perfect WiiMote-like device) but WASD is simply stupid and every developer that does it needs to reevaluate his life.

I like controllers because it's way easier to manage your movement and your viewpoint on a dual analog stick controller as it can ever be on a WASD + mouse or mouse control scheme.

If I had to choose between accurate aim and WASD and less accurate aim but dual analog controller I'd always choose dual analog controllers because at least that scheme doesn't give me carpal tunnel.

The Wii scheme - if the aiming was much more accurate would have been perfect if you can live with the limited number of buttons.

Also if your game needs more than 10 shortcuts and you are not a competitive multiplayer game (like an MMO or RTS) you're doing it wrong

I disagree with what you said.

[Arthur_Parker]

I don't really like the current game console controllers, I'm just used to a mouse and seem too old to change.  I was sorta average with the wii remotes on one of the call of duty games once I got used to it, but when I've tried playing xbox games it seems to take 60 seconds to go from full up to full down.  I keep trying though, as there must be reason so many people like them, I just don't see it as yet.

[Jeff Kelly]

Wait, there are people that actually like to control their toon with WASD + QE?

I don't even... It's... like I don't know you guys anymore 

The keys are too close together, there isn't anywhere you can rest your hand, the top row of keys is slightly more elevated than the bottom row and each key in the top row is moved a few millimeters to the left relative to the bottom row. If I use that control scheme for more than an hour my fingers and hand start to hurt. Put strafing on Q and E and it becomes even more awkward to use.

I really, really hate it.

[rk47]

Cyrrex , pass me the Senzu beans.

[satael]

Wait, there are people that actually like to control their toon with WASD + QE?

I don't even... It's... like I don't know you guys anymore 

The keys are too close together, there isn't anywhere you can rest your hand, the top row of keys is slightly more elevated than the bottom row and each key in the top row is moved a few millimeters to the left relative to the bottom row. If I use that control scheme for more than an hour my fingers and hand start to hurt. Put strafing on Q and E and it becomes even more awkward to use.

I really, really hate it.

I use this and I wouldn't even consider going back to using just a normal keyboard for any pc (WASD) gaming. 

[Cyrrex]

Wait, there are people that actually like to control their toon with WASD + QE?

I don't even... It's... like I don't know you guys anymore 

The keys are too close together, there isn't anywhere you can rest your hand, the top row of keys is slightly more elevated than the bottom row and each key in the top row is moved a few millimeters to the left relative to the bottom row. If I use that control scheme for more than an hour my fingers and hand start to hurt. Put strafing on Q and E and it becomes even more awkward to use.

I really, really hate it.

Are you sure you even have hands?  

For realz questions:  Do you have super big hands or something?  Can you type by touch?  Do you have a bajillion hours of PC gaming like the most of us?

While we are at it, Q and E strafing is the bees knees in my book.  People probably have differing opinions on this.  Nevertheless, WASD by itself is not what makes it work.  It is WASD and the mouse together that makes it.  One provides simple forward, back, left and right without any of the stupid nuances of the control stick that make it so imprecise...you move forward or back in an exactly predictable fashion.  You strafe left or right without accidently moving on the wrong axis.  And in the other hand, you have the mouse that lets you move your viewpoint in any dimension, with pixel perfect accuracy.  It is not just more accurate and intuitive than the controller, but it is just about completely perfect in terms of accuracy, once you have it down.  The only time the controller improves things is when you get out of the first person viewpoint, because then that kind of accuracy is no longer required (a different kind of accuracy might then take over, such as the timing of a button push or your agility to perform a sequence of pushes).  

Whether it is comfortable?  I'll leave that to personal opinion.  

[Cyrrex]

Some corporate spin coming out of Microsoft:

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/06/12/microsofts-phil-spencer-this-isnt-a-sprint

“We always knew that our story would play out over time,” said VP at Microsoft Game Studios Phil Spencer speaking with GameSpot. “And even now, I would say, this isn't a sprint. The platform launches this November; we've got more content to share."

“There are other means like Gamescom [and] TGS coming that will still continue to put a value [proposition] on what we're bringing to market,” Spencer added. “The reaction, I think, is complete when the product is on the shelf and it has a price and it has a content library and consumers vote.”

I am not quoting it necessarily because I disagree with what he is saying, but more by HOW he is saying it.  Platform.  Value Proposition.  Content library.  I fucking hate corporate suits like this.  They would be better off letting non-management schlubs do the talking for them, because at least they could pretend they are talking about games and game consoles and actually give a shit about the subject matter.  I wonder if Phil Spencer ever turned on a 360.

[Maledict]

TGS is where the PS4 exclusive Demon Souls 2 is being unveiled. Anything Microsoft does will be drowned out by Schild's cries of rapture anyways... ;-)

[Tebonas]

Wait, there are people that actually like to control their toon with WASD + QE?

I don't even... It's... like I don't know you guys anymore  

And its not only those crazy Americans, sorry Jeff!  

But in my defense I learned to like WASD only after I tried to play on Notebooks that didn't have Numeric Keys, before that I preferred them.

I realize I'm in the minority with my general dislike of controllers, though. And I never expect developers to humor me and my "Mouse and WASD is the best thing ever" feeling.

I'm surpised and glad Microsoft might tank hard. I'm even tempted to buy a PS4 just to get my own kick in to punish Microsoft for trying to fuck over customers with their used game policy. Sadly I am no console player, I gave away my Xbox 360 and all the games I bought to my Brother-in-law after having it stand almost unused for over a year.

[01101010]

http://majornelson.com/2013/06/11/xbox-one-smart-match/

Oh I so can't wait for this... player matching/evaluations... so delicious.

[jakonovski]

As a leftie, I can safely say that WASD is the devil's work.

[Falconeer]

Wait, there are people that actually like to control their toon with WASD + QE?

I don't even... It's... like I don't know you guys anymore 

The keys are too close together, there isn't anywhere you can rest your hand, the top row of keys is slightly more elevated than the bottom row and each key in the top row is moved a few millimeters to the left relative to the bottom row. If I use that control scheme for more than an hour my fingers and hand start to hurt. Put strafing on Q and E and it becomes even more awkward to use.

I really, really hate it.

You are putting yourself at the centre of everything and measuring what's comfortable for humans by the size of your own hand. On top of that, you are pretending to not know that a good billion people strongly disagree with what you said and very comfortable and ultra lethal at everything with WASD and a mouse. You are wrong on infinite levels. Stop.

[Jeff Kelly]

That last post broke my hyperbole detector

[Bzalthek]

WASD by itself is not what makes it work.  It is WASD and the mouse together that makes it. 

It's mainly the mouse IMO.  While I like the analog stick for movement in consoles, the lack of the precision a mouse gives you makes most chores on a controller seem like you're holding satan's dick.  I have friends who are really good with shooters on their 360, but I don't know how.  Even watching them play I feel like watching a MS victim attempting ballet.

[Bzalthek]

As a leftie, I can safely say that WASD is the devil's work.

As a leftie, you're barely above the status of a Ginger, so theres that.

[jakonovski]

As a leftie, I can safely say that WASD is the devil's work.

As a leftie, you're barely above the status of a Ginger, so theres that.

If you mean I'm exceptionally smart, then I agree.

[Shannow]

According to my market research (aka hearing stuff from my 12 year old) Microsoft has already lost the next gen console war.

He told me yesterday he would want a PS4 for his next console (we have never owned a PS, he has a xbox now). It's interesting as this must be a discussion he is having with his friends as I dont give a flying crap about consoles.

[Tebonas]

Whats with us leftie gingers then? 

[Cyrrex]

Whats with us leftie gingers then? 

Probably just mild retardation.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I am a leftie as well and the idea of using a keyboard to control a video game it just weird. It's not built in any sort of ergonomic way for gaming, even with the use of a mouse.  The pic Satael linked is more like something pc gamers should be using but rather than coming up with an industry standard controller for pc we just got stuck with this.  I'm not saying buttons and options are bad in a vacuum, in regards to a standard keyboard layout it's ridiculous.

[Kageru]

I keep trying though, as there must be reason so many people like them, I just don't see it as yet.

I think a large part of it is that keyboards don't work with lounging on the sofa. Also games where you are really mashing the buttons (most console action games) or want variable controls (driving I guess?).

For lefties the old, and no longer made, Ideazon Fang is an acceptable game-pad since it has an ambidextrous layout. I don't know what I'll when mine finally dies. Hope I can find another on e-bay I guess.

[Paelos]

Are yall actually doing the Keyboard v. Controller thing?

What is this 2001?

[Lantyssa]

Whats with us leftie gingers then? 

German leftie gingers?  What's the world coming to?

[MrHat]

Are yall actually doing the Keyboard v. Controller thing?

What is this 2001?

I've been trying to find exciting PC input news from E3 that might have spurred this.

[Tebonas]

What is this 2001?

I think it is. Wasn't that the year they released the Xbox One the first time? 

[Jeff Kelly]

What is this 2001?

Is there anything more interesting going on at E3 this year we could talk about instead?

[HaemishM]

http://www.gametrailers.com/netstorage/e3/live.html
~4h37m
"We have a product for people who cannot access some kind of internet connectivity and it's called Xbox 360" - Don Mattrick, President of the Interactive Entertainment Business at Microsoft.

That is so much win. You can actually see the fear in his eyes once the press whore responds with "So you're telling people without Internet access to stick to the 360 then, got it."

I could see the shit brick forming in his pants in real time.

[Ironwood]

Whats with us leftie gingers then? 

German leftie gingers?  What's the world coming to?

Better times for Bree at any rate.

[Paelos]

What is this 2001?

Is there anything more interesting going on at E3 this year we could talk about instead?

The games? The mood? The lighting? The glow? Anything is preferrable to rehashing a pimply faced debate from a decade ago raised by bunny-hopping dipshits in Unreal.

[Jeff Kelly]

"The Games"

OK anyone with more knowledge know any interesting stuff. The E3 presentations showed mostly stuff people already know and are comfortable with, the next COD, the next BF, the next Mario, the next Madden etc.

Anything intersting you guys saw that's off the beaten path?

[Speedy Cerviche]

I guess Taleworlds didn't show up with any Mount & Blade 2 stuff.

[koro]

http://uk.gamespot.com/features/dead-rising-3-reaches-for-the-call-of-duty-crowd-6409900/

Capcom Vancouver presented Dead Rising 3 behind closed doors, walking us through the demonstration that debuted during the Microsoft press conference while answering questions about the direction that they've taken. The changes that you can see in images were not a fluke. Capcom is pointedly trying to appeal to a wider audience in this latest iteration, saying it's going after the Call of Duty player. Gone is the cartoonish visual design, replaced by a more "realistic" interpretation of a viral apocalypse. That change is part of the maturation. By shifting the art style, the combat can be "more visceral" than in previous versions, with "real gore."

And Capcom has learned nothing  from Resident Evil 6.

[Merusk]

WASD by itself is not what makes it work.  It is WASD and the mouse together that makes it. 

It's mainly the mouse IMO.  While I like the analog stick for movement in consoles, the lack of the precision a mouse gives you makes most chores on a controller seem like you're holding satan's dick.  I have friends who are really good with shooters on their 360, but I don't know how.  Even watching them play I feel like watching a MS victim attempting ballet.

Yes.  The precision of the mouse is what makes WSAD work,.  If I had a thumb toggle for forward/ backward, strafe L/R I wouldn't need the KB for more than random binds.  

Even if the analog sticks did track as finely (granularly? Precisely?) as mice (IIRC they don't, and I think it's because they do fewer 'check' cycles for location per second) thumbs aren't as precise as fingers/ wrist. We kind of evolved that way.  That's why your first instinct on touching something is to use your index and mid finger, not your effing thumb.

[Jeff Kelly]

The precision with the mouse comes from your whole hand/whole arm not just one digit of your finger though.