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Author Topic: FF14: A Realm Reborn  (Read 382238 times)
luckton
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Reply #70 on: June 16, 2013, 07:04:24 PM

Some of Luckton's posts just have to be ignored sometimes.

 Ohhhhh, I see.  Indeed.

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Kitsune
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Reply #71 on: June 16, 2013, 10:26:48 PM

If that game actually played like Tera, I'd be battering down their door trying to make them take my money.
Falconeer
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Reply #72 on: June 16, 2013, 11:44:17 PM

FF XIV combat is literally 2003 and earlier. I haven't played beyond level 14 so of course things could be different later on (really?), but it's the "oldest" and most traditional MMORPG combat I have seen in ten years. It's pre-WoW combat. I think it's safe to say it's the least Tera-like of all the MMORPG combat systems in existence. This is almost retrogaming.

EDIT to add: It is a known fact that I love the direction MMO combat is going with Tera and the likes. And this couldn't be any further away from that. But I am also a lover of old things and retrogaming. So while on paper Final Fantasy 14 combat is all I have been vocal against in the last five years or so, I have to give it to them that they are aming for a specific kind of player and are doing so by staying true to the EQ1/FFXI formula while polishing everything else and adding the quality of life items those games are missing. I am not sure if I could stick with it for more than a month, or a week actually, but somehow it feels (and plays) terribly familiar (updated EverQuest 1 more than updated World of Warcraft) without giving me that "*groan* not again!" feeling, because it's more vintage cool than cloney bland.

Again, this is based on quite limited beta exposure.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 12:51:42 AM by Falconeer »

Hawkbit
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Reply #73 on: June 17, 2013, 06:56:09 AM

For what it is, the game isn't bad.  The fact that it is on a console helps, too.  I was able to log into both the PS3 and PC version and played the same character.  That's pretty cool!

I suspect the failure of the game this time around will be in the decision to retain the subscription model. 
Lantyssa
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Reply #74 on: June 17, 2013, 08:13:59 AM

FF XIV combat is literally 2003 and earlier.
This is my main problem with the game.  I need combat to be interesting.  On top of the sub, it's not for me.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
dusematic
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Reply #75 on: June 18, 2013, 04:20:28 AM

Phase 3 Beta underway, Phase 4 will be open beta.  Expected to launch in August.
Falconeer
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Reply #76 on: June 18, 2013, 04:34:45 AM

Am I wrong when I say that Beta 3 was only last weekend, unless you are in some "inner circle"? I can't get in right now and "Test schedule" says servers went offline Sunday night and next test has yet to be announced.

EDIT to add: Not that I would ever pick a Final Fantasy game for PvP, but seems like they are planning to keep PvE and PvP progression totally separated from each other to the point that you won't be able to use any of your PvE abilities in PvP, you will have to level up in PvP gaining abilities along the way. They are proably gonna be pretty much the same functionality-wise as the PvE ones, but with different values and potency and way less headaches in rebalancing them when needed. Not too much info on this yet though. Rumor is Yoshi-P, the director, played DAoC for five years.

Also, on the PvE side of things, there is mentoring for dungeons and FATE events (public quest/events), but not for normal monster grinding although they promised there's very little to no need for monster grind in FFXIV.

EDIT 2: The Windows edition of this is going to be 29$/£/€. I didn't see that coming. Console is 39.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 04:57:09 AM by Falconeer »

01101010
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Reply #77 on: June 18, 2013, 06:01:07 AM

FF XIV combat is literally 2003 and earlier.
This is my main problem with the game.  I need combat to be interesting.  On top of the sub, it's not for me.

I agree with you, but FFXI and I assume this iteration of FF is geared towards grouping. Having slower combat cycles allows for more synergy among the group in skillchains which I also assume is going to be a focus. This game sounds like a throwback to those days of primarily group content and less solo work. I have a love hate relationship with that: when you get in a group and it is working, it is some of the best gaming I have played. But if you don't have a group, then it becomes some sinkhole abyss that I want nothing to do with.

Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
Falconeer
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Reply #78 on: June 18, 2013, 06:22:09 AM

It feels exactly like that. How many times have I said "EverQuest 1" already? Hell, they even have the bard class, and it's a buffer. Good or bad, that's what they are going for, although in a super-polished new environment. And it might work, on a limited scale. But let's not forget this is TRULY cross-platform and cross-planet, so while I am afraid the monthly fee could kill it before it is even born, I am really curious to see how it will work out.

Lantyssa
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Reply #79 on: June 18, 2013, 06:30:58 AM

I'm aware it's a grouping game.  That's what makes me sad.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Draegan
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Reply #80 on: June 18, 2013, 06:37:32 AM

I think it's a good thing that this game is group based. There is definitely space in the genre for a group-heavy game since nearly every single major release is solo-oriented. It gives the neckbeards something to do I suppose. This game is really well done for those that want to relive 1999 with some modern touches.
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Reply #81 on: June 18, 2013, 06:39:21 AM

I would be curious, but forced grouping and a sub fee?  There are just too many other lackluster MMOs out there to play already that cost virtually nothing.  Will be interesting to see how it does.

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Nonentity
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Reply #82 on: June 18, 2013, 09:13:25 AM

So the NDA for phase 3 lets you talk impressions but no audio or video? Okay..

This game isn't terrible, but it's not anything revolutionary. They have really good world art. I got from level 1 to 3 running around in town not fighting a single thing.

Their UI art is really slick, and the UI itself does have some legitimately cool things.

Not having to loot anything ever is great. Having a separate quest inventory and a gear inventory is good, and automatically starting with 100 bag slots is generous, on top of a tab for crystals for crafting.

Full screen quest cutscenes make me want to cut myself. Time to 'oh fuck this i'm skipping everything' was quite low.

Curious to see how group combat plays out, I didn't make it that far. Character models are really slick, regardless of whether I like their style or not.

But that Captain's salami tray was tight, yo. You plump for the roast pork loin, dogg?

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Reply #83 on: June 18, 2013, 09:14:42 AM

Does the game have autofollow and /assist? awesome, for real
dusematic
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Reply #84 on: June 18, 2013, 10:18:00 AM

I think it's a good thing that this game is group based. There is definitely space in the genre for a group-heavy game since nearly every single major release is solo-oriented. It gives the neckbeards something to do I suppose. This game is really well done for those that want to relive 1999 with some modern touches.

Exactly.
dusematic
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Reply #85 on: June 18, 2013, 10:20:50 AM

FF XIV combat is literally 2003 and earlier.
This is my main problem with the game.  I need combat to be interesting.  On top of the sub, it's not for me.

I agree with you, but FFXI and I assume this iteration of FF is geared towards grouping. Having slower combat cycles allows for more synergy among the group in skillchains which I also assume is going to be a focus. This game sounds like a throwback to those days of primarily group content and less solo work. I have a love hate relationship with that: when you get in a group and it is working, it is some of the best gaming I have played. But if you don't have a group, then it becomes some sinkhole abyss that I want nothing to do with.

I'm ready for another grouping game.  Chances are, I'll remember why everything moved away from that.  But it was always the best when you had a well oiled machine of a group, and the worst when you didn't.  But at some point, personally, I just wonder, why not go play Skyrim, maybe these other people are just a distraction when I never interact with them meaningfully.
01101010
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Reply #86 on: June 18, 2013, 10:27:21 AM

I agree with you, but FFXI and I assume this iteration of FF is geared towards grouping. Having slower combat cycles allows for more synergy among the group in skillchains which I also assume is going to be a focus. This game sounds like a throwback to those days of primarily group content and less solo work. I have a love hate relationship with that: when you get in a group and it is working, it is some of the best gaming I have played. But if you don't have a group, then it becomes some sinkhole abyss that I want nothing to do with.

I'm ready for another grouping game.  Chances are, I'll remember why everything moved away from that.  But it was always the best when you had a well oiled machine of a group, and the worst when you didn't.  But at some point, personally, I just wonder, why not go play Skyrim, maybe these other people are just a distraction when I never interact with them meaningfully.

I am just hoping to get into beta and see the changes. I am quite sure this will run just like 2003 where I play this then switch over to Wildstar about a year later.

Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
Falconeer
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Reply #87 on: June 19, 2013, 10:08:12 AM

So next test is this coming Friday and Saturday. Just those two days. Rumor is more invites will go out tomorrow.

Margalis
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Reply #88 on: June 20, 2013, 07:02:35 PM

I'm aware it's a grouping game.  That's what makes me sad.

Why not play one of the existing 50 or so solo-oriented WoW-clones?

"I like pizza - why isn't this hamburger a second-rate pizza???"

I get people who don't like grouping but the vast majority of MMOs cater to those people already. It's far better to be one of the best games serving an under-served market than to be a middling game serving a market already beyond saturation.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 08:31:12 PM by Margalis »

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Rendakor
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Reply #89 on: June 20, 2013, 07:11:46 PM

I'm pretty psyched to have a grouping-focused MMO again too, but then I'm one of the few who really liked launch-era EQ2.

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Hoax
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Reply #90 on: June 20, 2013, 10:08:02 PM

I'm aware it's a grouping game.  That's what makes me sad.

Why not play one of the existing 50 or so solo-oriented WoW-clones?

"I like pizza - why isn't this hamburger a second-rate pizza???"

I get people who don't like grouping but the vast majority of MMOs cater to those people already. It's far better to be one of the best games serving an under-served market than to be a middling game serving a market already beyond saturation.

I agree but the thing is sub + grouping gameplay is even less palatable than sub + solo gameplay. I would love to have the game installed and play with a static that manages to meet together once or twice a week at best.

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Margalis
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Reply #91 on: June 21, 2013, 12:48:12 AM

I hear you. Sub fee sounds anachronistic in a bad way, whereas group-centric play is anachronistic in a good way. It's probably true that the more group-centric a game is the less sense a sub makes, as in a group-centric game having more people playing is more important.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Lantyssa
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Reply #92 on: June 21, 2013, 10:25:27 AM

Why not play one of the existing 50 or so solo-oriented WoW-clones?

"I like pizza - why isn't this hamburger a second-rate pizza???"

I get people who don't like grouping but the vast majority of MMOs cater to those people already. It's far better to be one of the best games serving an under-served market than to be a middling game serving a market already beyond saturation.
I will be.  It's not like I'm sending them nasty letters over it.  I'm disappointed, not raging.

For some reason I can't see Square-Enix wanting to put out a niche title, though.  It should have room for solo and groups with the resources they're dumping into it.  Considering they redid FFXI to be more solo-friendly, it also seems like yet another poorly thought out decision for a game that has already flopped once.

Why even have the 1-15 game if it's going to be poorly done, neglected, and not representative of the rest of it, either?

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Falconeer
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Reply #93 on: June 21, 2013, 11:06:46 AM

The only thing that really worries me is the stunning poverty of skills and actions. Each class seems to have very few attacks even at level 50, so even though in their official director notes they promised "rotations" (woohoo!), I am really worried about how interesting the combat will ever be. I wonder if I am missing something, but we are talking about a new skill every 6 levels or so, and that's often just a buff. Seriously?

dusematic
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Reply #94 on: June 21, 2013, 01:31:37 PM

That could be a problem, although I'd rather have seven awesome abilities than 32 fair to middling abilities.
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Reply #95 on: June 21, 2013, 01:56:18 PM

Some of the skills are cross-class. I believe that each advanced class can use abilities from 2 other basic jobs as well.

But that Captain's salami tray was tight, yo. You plump for the roast pork loin, dogg?

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[20:42:41] The spirit touches you and you feel drained.
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Reply #96 on: June 22, 2013, 09:05:57 PM

I'm aware it's a grouping game.  That's what makes me sad.

Why not play one of the existing 50 or so solo-oriented WoW-clones?

"I like pizza - why isn't this hamburger a second-rate pizza???"

I like the game's aesthetics quite a bit, so 50 existing solo-oriented WoW-clones that also copycat WoW's cartoon-like graphics don't really help me any in this regard. So for me that analogy is more like "While I like pizza this hamburger looks nice, too... but why can I only buy a package for a party of 6 when I just want one for myself?"
Margalis
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Reply #97 on: June 23, 2013, 01:08:22 AM

Yeah I get that.

Unfortunately when a game does well developers tend to "learn" ultra-specific lessons from them like "make sure everyone has goofy shoulder pads" rather than more general things like "make sure your game is playable on a wide range of hardware."

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Falconeer
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Reply #98 on: June 26, 2013, 11:10:38 PM

Grrrrrrrreat video showing and explaining FATEs (Full ActiveTime Event), their equivalent of Rift's rifts and other games' Public Quests.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 11:12:24 PM by Falconeer »

Margalis
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Reply #99 on: June 30, 2013, 10:31:59 PM

I did some storyline stuff, it's pretty well done overall. The amount of story you get is pretty regular and the cut scenes are all well-presented.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Falconeer
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Reply #100 on: July 01, 2013, 12:50:20 AM

I want to love this game, I preordered it knowing that at 24 euros I am definitely gonna get a few weeks of fun out it and in all honesty there actually is lots of stuff that I am liking. But damn, the combat is really, really fucking dull. I'm afraid it's worse than I feared. I am sure you can get used to it, and it probably gets better with levels, but the long cooldown is exhausting me and it doesn't help that the number of attacks/skills you seem to have by the time you hit max level is quite limited.

Margalis
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Reply #101 on: July 01, 2013, 07:34:34 PM

The cooldown time doesn't really bother me but the limited selection of skills is a bummer. In particular on a mage class you basically have one main damage spell and you just use that spell forever. It scales in mana cost and damage with level - in a way it's like playing a game where enemies all scale to your level. You go up a level, your damage goes up, the mana cost goes up, your mana pool grows, and you fight slightly tougher enemies, so in the end nothing has changed.

A lot of games have the "problem" where you learn new spells that are more powerful than old ones and your old spells become obsolete to some degree, but that is mitigated by stuff like elemental weaknesses and the fact that a stair-step function for power is inherently more satisfying than something strictly linear.

The way the game works now (at least as either caster class) it feels like my power level as a function of character level is strictly proportional. As I level my spells become more powerful, I get equipment that is slightly better than before - there's no point where I hit a new level and can equip an awesome new ability or significantly more powerful piece of equipment that feels like more than a minor upgrade.

For example in FFXI as a healer when you learn Cure 2 that is a huge step up from Cure 1 - it heals for a lot more and also draws a lot more enmity. In FFXIV your cure just scales up with level so at no point does it feel like it's starting to be too weak and at no point does it feel like a significant step up. In FFXI on non-mage classes special abilities were pretty sparse but stats and equipment were super important, in FFXIV again it feels like equipment just scales with level linearly.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
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Reply #102 on: July 01, 2013, 09:13:04 PM

That's how CoH worked but it also had a good variety of powers to use.
01101010
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Reply #103 on: July 11, 2013, 06:57:38 PM

In case anyone actually is paying attention, a ton of beta invites went out for this weekend today. I know because I got one in my email earlier, so that means they are letting in everybody now.

Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
Kitsune
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Reply #104 on: July 12, 2013, 02:52:44 AM

I got the invite today as well, and thus far I'm at least impressed with the presentation, if not so much with the play mechanics.  But the horrible generic repetitive landscapes are gone, the clunky controls are gone, the visuals are lovely and the music is great.  The interface is straightforward and playing is smooth, though the whole 'autoattack and occasionally press a skill' system is something that I might not be able to get past.
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