Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

[Raguel]

I think you can defend the team. The core is Coulson, May, and Ward, and all of them appear to be seasoned, highly-capable vets. Fitz Simmons, while young, are highly competent; afaik we were never told where they are on the SHIELD scale, but why not pretend they are at least top 5?   

Skye is young and cute. 

[Mrbloodworth]

You people hate fun.

[Speedy Cerviche]

Well they aren't top, because we know that shield has actual badasses who are (hawkeye, widow).

[Evildrider]

Well they aren't top, because we know that shield has actual badasses who are (hawkeye, widow).

I think May is supposed to be up there, but something happened to her where she wanted to just be a desk jockey.

[Trippy]

The team itself just doesn't make a lot of sense.

If you didn't know that they are supposed to be part of SHIELD, a huge important organization, you'd assume this was some rag-tag group of misfits that got together through happenstance like the A-Team, or were outcasts like Fox Mulder, or something like that. The idea that this is the special team they've come up with is just crazy. It's using the same Scooby-Doo gang formula as other Whedon shows but it doesn't make sense here.

"Why is this the group of people that has their own plane and fly around solving mysteries?" is a question that I don't think has an answer. If someone told me the original concept was a SHIELD: The New Class thing about fresh recruits I might believe it. As it is this group of people working for SHIELD in this capacity is just weird.

Especially when in the movies, Coulson  was Nick Fury's point man at command, and in dealing with important assets like Stark. He was a top officer at the headquarters and now he's running a random field team?

It's meant to be an elite team. The other agent at the epilogue of this week's episode refers to it as Coulson's "dream team".

[Evildrider]

The team itself just doesn't make a lot of sense.

If you didn't know that they are supposed to be part of SHIELD, a huge important organization, you'd assume this was some rag-tag group of misfits that got together through happenstance like the A-Team, or were outcasts like Fox Mulder, or something like that. The idea that this is the special team they've come up with is just crazy. It's using the same Scooby-Doo gang formula as other Whedon shows but it doesn't make sense here.

"Why is this the group of people that has their own plane and fly around solving mysteries?" is a question that I don't think has an answer. If someone told me the original concept was a SHIELD: The New Class thing about fresh recruits I might believe it. As it is this group of people working for SHIELD in this capacity is just weird.

Especially when in the movies, Coulson  was Nick Fury's point man at command, and in dealing with important assets like Stark. He was a top officer at the headquarters and now he's running a random field team?

It's meant to be an elite team. The other agent at the epilogue of this week's episode refers to it as Coulson's "dream team".

This, he got to hand pick the people he wanted for this team.

[MediumHigh]

His dream team just happen to hit all the marketing 101 checkboxes.

[jgsugden]

The way I see it, these people are Avengers-lite.

Skye and FitzSimmons are brilliant, but a few rungs behind Stark.  Stark outdid what we've seen each of them (Hacking SHIELD in Avengers at will, Drunk solutions to biology mysteries in IM III, countless technical marvels)
May was last generation's Widow.
Ward is not Hawkeye, but he is not that far off (unless you're talking theatrics).

They're the best you can get without being Superhuman.

[Evildrider]

His dream team just happen to hit all the marketing 101 checkboxes.

This argument is becoming just old and stupid.  You do realize this stuff is still made by Hollywood right?

[Lakov_Sanite]

Therefore it must be formulaic? I'm not shitting on the show, I've already done that but come on, there is nothing wrong with having standards.  "Hollywood" makes plenty of shows that are not blatant pandering to demographics all the time. 

It's ludicrous to simply say that by virtue of being made it can't be bad.

[Raguel]

Well they aren't top, because we know that shield has actual badasses who are (hawkeye, widow).

I'm not sure if this was a reply to me, but my "top 5" statement was referencing Fitz Simmons, and anyway Hawkeye and Widow are just humans and given hints of their training/background there's no reason to think Ward and May aren't their equals. 

[Tannhauser]

Per the last episode, FitzSimmons are straight out of school, if that's Cambridge or Shield Polytechnic I don't know.  But it does explain their goofiness and lack of combat skills.

I assume Shield was heavily invested in them and Coulson snatched them up for his 'dream team'.  May and Ward for combat and a convenient hole for a 'leet haXXorz' girl.

So I'm fine with the backstories except for Skye.  Poor acting doesn't help her case either.  I give Ward some rope because he's supposed  to be a Terminator with poor social skills.

[Nevermore]

Ward has been humanized a bit so while I wouldn't say he's grown on me, he's not as bad as he was in the first couple of episodes.  The stoic professional trope works better for his role on the team than the alternative, the loose cannon trope.  Making him self aware enough to poke fun at himself that last episode was a nice touch.

[Ironwood]

I'm finding the 'hints' around Coulson to be entirely unsubtle and annoying.

Not being able to handle the gun due to lack of 'muscle memory' was almost rubbed in our faces.  In a bad, pornographic way.  Whedon used to pretend his audience was somewhat clever.  When did that change ?

I'd really rather they'd got that shit out of the way in episode one and not bothered making it a mystery because, honestly, I don't care.

[Velorath]

I'm finding the 'hints' around Coulson to be entirely unsubtle and annoying.

Not being able to handle the gun due to lack of 'muscle memory' was almost rubbed in our faces.  In a bad, pornographic way.  Whedon used to pretend his audience was somewhat clever.  When did that change ?

I'd really rather they'd got that shit out of the way in episode one and not bothered making it a mystery because, honestly, I don't care.

They aren't hints to the audience, since it's generally understood that the audience knows from the start that there's something up. They're hints to Coulson himself. The idea isn't that we're supposed to be piecing together that something is wrong, we're supposed to be watching Coulson piece that together.

[Ironwood]

Fair enough if that's how you see it.

Still annoying.

[Margalis]

It's meant to be an elite team. The other agent at the epilogue of this week's episode refers to it as Coulson's "dream team".

Right, but I'm saying they don't come off as an elite team at all. They have some supposedly bad-ass Asian chick who doesn't want to do anything useful, two young naive science types, an anti-government hacker that got hired without any due diligence and has already betrayed the team once.

Ward is the only guy who comes off as an elite agent. Simply referring to the rest as elite doesn't make it so.

Per the last episode, FitzSimmons are straight out of school, if that's Cambridge or Shield Polytechnic I don't know.  But it does explain their goofiness and lack of combat skills.

And again, to me this would make more sense if this was a project that Coulson believed in but SHIELD as a whole was lukewarm on, so he had to rely on talented youngsters and outsiders rather than established talent. With the exception of Ward the team is up-and-comers and also-rans. Even Coulson himself is damaged goods - he may not know it but SHIELD does.

Maybe the twist is that SHIELD knows Coulson is messed up and gave him something to keep him busy that they don't really care about? That would make a lot more sense to me - sure, take some recent grads, a hacker chick and a desk jockey, here's a plane, go knock yourself out. Better than having you short circuit in the office and gun down a bunch of people.

[Numtini]

"Hollywood" makes plenty of shows that are not blatant pandering to demographics all the time. 

SHIELD's problem isn't that it panders, it's that it tries to and fails. Arrow is pandering its ass off to us and we're eating up every Oliver-doing-a-chin-up and Felicity nerd-strutting minute of it.

"I don't mine a parasite. I object to a cut rate one."

[HaemishM]

I'm still liking this show, and I think it's starting to hit as good of a stride as it's going to hit. The best bit of acting this season was Coulson talking to the firefighter that was about to blow up. That was really strong and of course, it's Coulson. He's really the heart of the show and I'm glad because both Ward and Skye are holding the show back. Ward has gotten better but Skye is just... not. Fitz Simmons make for some good banter though I have problems understanding their accents at times (which is weird because I don't usually have a problem with those accents at all).

[Venkman]

I'm still enjoying it, but it's not holding my attention. I find half the time I'm just barely listening. I don't mind the acting as much as I don't like how they're treating Skye. It's very soap-opera-ish in treatment, how she's the cause of a problem then passively-aggressively suffering for it then the solution then the problem again. Only a handful of episodes in though, and they're still going through the "this episode is now about this character" sequence. It's good treadmill distraction, and I've run out of Netflix, so it'll do

[Der Helm]

I have a good enough time watching it, nitpicking things that make no sense (and maybe complain about them on the internet). It is entertaining.


Carrying  a box containing a deadly virus on a plane and then just putting it onto a table in a room where aparently nobody is watching it ? Really ?

[Ironwood]

I'm all caught up now.

Nothing really blowing me away, but it passes the time.  The scene with Skye in her undercrackers was painful, in all the wrong ways.  Talk about gratuitous and shoehorned in.  Also, those pants were just ugly as fuck.

Anyway....

[Tannhauser]

Well I did my part and saw Thor 2.  So lets see how the next episode plays off of that story line. 

[Threash]

Fair enough if that's how you see it.

Still annoying.

I mean, the very first episode had a "he must never find out!" scene. This are not hints, it has been made obvious to the audience something is up with Coulson.

[Ironwood]

I didn't catch the pilot.  Sorry.

(But he's not a robot.  Shame.  I was enjoying shouting 'It's because you're a robot' at the screen every ten minutes, much to wife disgust.)

[Lakov_Sanite]

Funny PA comic on the show.

[Tannhauser]

What's bad is that Arrow, with probably 1/3 of the budget is kicking its ass.  Maybe it's because the format is more of a soap opera, but:

1.  Actions have consequences.  Queen's mom is in jail and on trial still for a huge explosion she was involved in in Season One.
2.  Queen has two comrades, one of which is a hot hacker chick, but reasonably portrayed i.e. she's not wearing designer duds in a van beside a coffee shop.
3.  Queen has secrets and flaws.  Coulson has a secret but is the perfect agent.  Queen is haunted by past mistakes; Coulson grins and saunters off.

Of course, there are limits in episodic vs. serial storytelling, but Arrow is a pretty tight show with believable characters making mostly believable decisions.  Maybe Arrow is doing well staying focused on gritty street-level action while AoS is trying to tell grander stories.  I feel Arrow knows what it's about while AoS is still figuring out what kind of show it wants to be.  It might be unfair to compare Arrow season two to AoS season one, but it's the only benchmark that matters to me at the moment.

[HaemishM]

Arrow season one was better than Agents of SHIELD so it's a fair comparison.

[Ironwood]

I find Arrow just as painful, but that's probably because I don't really 'care' about either premise, to be honest.

[Margalis]

I'm not a fan of CW superhero shows but they at least seem to know and embrace what they are.

SHIELD is a show that's half-embraced CW's philosophy. (Basically what Numtini said earlier) A lot of Whedon's shows try to blend drama, comedy and pandering, and rather than succeeding on all fronts SHIELD is failing on them all. I think this SHIELD show is actually less dramatic than the Avengers cartoon. (Earth's Mightiest Heroes) To me that's the single greatest failing - it's just failing as dramatic television. Largely because it doesn't take the characters or situations seriously. Whereas something like X-Files could have a lot of comedy but still function as a drama.

To be fair I think most of the Marvel movies don't really work as dramas, but they have enough other stuff going on that it doesn't matter so much. But on a TV show without a lot of set pieces, adventuring or super heroes you need a dramatic core.

[Ironwood]

Yeah.  I don't feel any drama or tension either.

I find it hard to worry about the main character dying when, you know, been there, done that.

 

[Numtini]

she's not wearing designer duds in a van beside a coffee shop

There have been a few scenes with her in designer dresses and they've been exquisite for how realistically uncomfortable she looks.

[jgsugden]

There have been a few scenes with her in designer dresses and they've been exquisite for how realistically uncomfortable she looks.

I'm not sure that was what was exquisite about those scenes.  I can think of a couple of things that were really shown off there...  (See GIF above)

Arrow =/= MAoS.  Arrow is about a man, his family, and the people supporting his agenda.  The stories are about him - his past, his relationships, his goals.  MAoS is about a team coming together. The stories are about what pulls them together, and how they interact.  Rather than a focus, you have several focuses pulling together into one.  This is also a fundamnetal difference between Buffy and Firefly.  As such, I'd argue Whedon can pull off either approach.  We just need more time for this show to develop and a bit more backstory on each character.

[Ironwood]

And then you see her in her underwear and they're nowhere to be seen and, yet again, you thank God for push up bras in TV.

[HaemishM]

  As such, I'd argue Whedon can pull off either approach.  We just need more time for this show to develop and a bit more backstory on each character.

I don't care if it's written by Whedon's brother, it's not a Whedon show. It just isn't. He does not have enough input into the show which is I think one reason it's not as good as it could be.