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Author Topic: Useless comics news, discussions, and recommendations  (Read 202472 times)
HaemishM
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Reply #140 on: November 16, 2013, 08:41:40 PM

The whole concept of "mutant solidarity" or "mutants as a race/endangered species" was that they really had no trait or belief that brought them together other than being a mutant - which usually meant having a superpower and thus being feared and hated. But when there are all these other superpowered beings who aren't feared and hated, why be considered a "mutant" after all? It's an allegory for a lot of things (racism, homophobia) but it isn't necessarily one that makes a lot of sense these days.

However, there are at least some good books coming out of AVX. I doubt any of them are being written by Bendis, which is why I'm wary about All New X-Men.

Sky
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Reply #141 on: November 16, 2013, 09:22:39 PM

And it led to Uncanny Avengers, which through the 7 issues I've read so far has been outstanding. It's really Rick Remender's continuation of the stuff he was doing in Uncanny X-Force but it's good. Doesn't hurt that it's had good artists so far.
I thought it was pretty awful. The third book I dropped in TPB. On the other hand, I dig the All-New X-Men. Until it hit the wall of having a shit artist in the last compiled issue of the last TPB.

Just finished the second Sif Journey Into Mystery TPB, good characteristic art and fun writing.
Velorath
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Reply #142 on: November 17, 2013, 01:50:46 AM

It's an allegory for a lot of things (racism, homophobia) but it isn't necessarily one that makes a lot of sense these days.

I don't know that it ever made a lot of sense. Racism and homophobia are irrational fears/hatreds. I think it would be very rational to fear random people being born with the power to read peoples' minds or control their thoughts, be able to spontaneously create massive explosions or energy bursts, or in extreme cases be able to completely rewrite reality. Aside from Quicksilver defending the government's right to manufacture Sentinels to defend itself from people like his father, the X-men tend to come across as pretty naive in regards to the fact Mutants are a potentially world-ending threat.
Sky
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Reply #143 on: November 17, 2013, 08:58:16 AM

I agree. And despite 'saving the earth' so many times over, they've devastated cities and wrought chaos upon the planet on a larger scale than anything but those they oppose. So they're the proverbial necessary evil. At least the Sentinels program is supposed to have some governmental oversight so we can pretend it's the will of the people. Hell, even the Avengers are supposed to be answerable these days.

It's a great angsty book when you're a teen fighting The Man, but when you become an adult it's a horror story of hormones + destructive power. I think that would be a more interesting way to see it addressed.
HaemishM
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Reply #144 on: November 17, 2013, 10:58:46 AM

True, there are more interesting ways to handle the mutant thing. And let's face it, the mutants as allegory for minority oppression made a lot more sense in the '60's, '70's and '80's than it does now.

However, I submit that Bendis' All New X-Men concept is really fucking stupid. He is relying again on a premise that requires one of the characters (the Beast) to make a REALLY IDIOTIC DECISION that makes little sense in the context of all the stories about time-travel that have gone before. His writing is better than it was on most of his Avengers' run but still... idiotic concept.

Khaldun
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Reply #145 on: November 17, 2013, 01:49:43 PM

The thing I find fascinating is that the official Marvel line is after AvX:


Scarlet Witch was being controlled when she did bad things; forgive her.
Cyclops was being controlled when he did bad things; no one should forgive him.



HaemishM
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Reply #146 on: November 17, 2013, 05:52:51 PM

I never got the impression Scarlet Witch was being controlled so much as she was batshit insane. It just seems to me that most of the writers responsible for the Marvel direction hate Cyclops with a fucking passion, especially Bendis.

Khaldun
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Reply #147 on: November 18, 2013, 04:13:12 AM

When they brought Scarlet Witch back via the Children's Crusade mini, it was revealed that when she cast the "no more mutants" spell and killed friends in Avengers Disassembled she had been possessed by a mystical entity that took her over when she and Doctor Doom attempted to resurrect her two children. Comics everybody!
palmer_eldritch
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Reply #148 on: November 18, 2013, 04:22:09 AM

When they brought Scarlet Witch back via the Children's Crusade mini, it was revealed that when she cast the "no more mutants" spell and killed friends in Avengers Disassembled she had been possessed by a mystical entity that took her over when she and Doctor Doom attempted to resurrect her two children. Comics everybody!


Grr, I hate it when they do things which undermine an old story which I enjoyed at the time. The Scarlet Witch's actions actually made sense in the context of the storyline (the finale of House of M, not when she killed half the Avengers). She'd given up any hope that mutants and humans could live in peace and so she did what seemed logical to her, given her state of mind at the time.

I still don't like to admit that the first Phoenix (the one that died on the moon) wasn't actually Jean Grey.
Sir T
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Reply #149 on: November 18, 2013, 09:14:02 AM

Yes, that was one of their more idiotic retcons, and that's saying something.

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HaemishM
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Reply #150 on: November 18, 2013, 09:29:36 AM

When they brought Scarlet Witch back via the Children's Crusade mini, it was revealed that when she cast the "no more mutants" spell and killed friends in Avengers Disassembled she had been possessed by a mystical entity that took her over when she and Doctor Doom attempted to resurrect her two children. Comics everybody!


That fills me with such weary rage. The end of Bendis' run on Avengers filled me with the same rage - basically all the huge, shocking changes that were made during the run were reversed. Scarlet Witch is back and still a good guy, Hawkeye is alive, Wasp isn't dead, Doctor Strange is the Sorcerer Supreme again, Iron Man and Captain America are friends again.

jgsugden
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Reply #151 on: November 18, 2013, 10:16:45 AM

The whole concept of "mutant solidarity" or "mutants as a race/endangered species" was that they really had no trait or belief that brought them together other than being a mutant - which usually meant having a superpower and thus being feared and hated. But when there are all these other superpowered beings who aren't feared and hated, why be considered a "mutant" after all? It's an allegory for a lot of things (racism, homophobia) but it isn't necessarily one that makes a lot of sense these days. ...
This was addressed back in the 90s at one point:

Thor is a God.  The Silver Surfer is an alien.  These are visitors (and do tend to be pushed away more than some other heroes).

Captain America is an augmented human.  Iron Man is a man in armor.  Dr. Strange is a wizard.  These are people that have risen up. 

Mutants, however, are an invasive species.  They're replacing humanity.  As time goes by, the mutant means the end of humanity.  They represent the next step in the genetic progression - and if you're not one, you're outdated technology.  Plus, they *are dangerous*.  They get powers unexpectedly, and at a time in their life when they have no idea how to control the power - either in terms of how it works, or how to be mature and responsible with it.  They kill (or worse?) - sometimes intentionally, but often accidentally. 

That is why mutants, above all other super humans, are persecuted.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
palmer_eldritch
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Reply #152 on: November 18, 2013, 01:07:27 PM

The whole concept of "mutant solidarity" or "mutants as a race/endangered species" was that they really had no trait or belief that brought them together other than being a mutant - which usually meant having a superpower and thus being feared and hated. But when there are all these other superpowered beings who aren't feared and hated, why be considered a "mutant" after all? It's an allegory for a lot of things (racism, homophobia) but it isn't necessarily one that makes a lot of sense these days. ...
This was addressed back in the 90s at one point:

Thor is a God.  The Silver Surfer is an alien.  These are visitors (and do tend to be pushed away more than some other heroes).

Captain America is an augmented human.  Iron Man is a man in armor.  Dr. Strange is a wizard.  These are people that have risen up.  

Mutants, however, are an invasive species.  They're replacing humanity.  As time goes by, the mutant means the end of humanity.  They represent the next step in the genetic progression - and if you're not one, you're outdated technology.  Plus, they *are dangerous*.  They get powers unexpectedly, and at a time in their life when they have no idea how to control the power - either in terms of how it works, or how to be mature and responsible with it.  They kill (or worse?) - sometimes intentionally, but often accidentally.  

That is why mutants, above all other super humans, are persecuted.

True but they were portrayed a bit differently during the Claremont era. They were very much humans who were different to the majority, and the parallels with real life prejudice was made explicit, albeit in a clumsy way sometimes. The way they are now, anti-mutant prejudice is a lousy parallel for any real life prejudice because as you say, it's kind of understandable.

HaemishM
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Reply #153 on: November 18, 2013, 01:28:58 PM

I think it's because a lot of the creators writing the X-Men/mutants today really just don't like the mutants as characters. Everybody loves Wolverine (ick) as evidenced by how many fucktards want to put him in their team book. Seriously, is there one goddamn team book in Marvel that Wolverine ISN'T in? Fantastic Four maybe? But the other mutants? Let's shit on them from great heights and make it abundantly clear that they are dangerous, more dangerous than gods like Thor or egotistical alcoholics billionaires in metal suits.

Ard
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Reply #154 on: November 18, 2013, 02:09:53 PM

Hah, you wish, from wikipedia

"A temporary lineup from Fantastic Four #347-349 (December 1990-February 1991) consisted of the Hulk (in his "Joe Fixit" persona), Spider-Man, Wolverine, and Ghost Rider (Daniel Ketch)."
HaemishM
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Reply #155 on: November 18, 2013, 02:49:09 PM

 Argh! Argh! Argh!

Velorath
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Reply #156 on: November 18, 2013, 03:11:26 PM

To be fair, they weren't official members of the Fantastic Four in that story. I don't remember all the details, but I seem to recall that they were recruited by a Skrull impersonating the Invisible Woman. It was also obviously a pure 90's exercise in cramming as many popular guest stars in as possible to sell a comic. It's a wonder they didn't find some way to squeeze the Punisher in there somehow.
Margalis
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Reply #157 on: November 18, 2013, 04:10:01 PM

From what I recall that was pretty amusing. It was supposed to be a lark, and if I remember correctly the moral of the story was that 4 cool super dudes put together was pretty dysfunctional compared to the FF family.

On the subject of writers hating characters etc - this is my number 1 pet peeve in comics. People complain that editors control too much or in stupid ways, but I think in general editors don't control nearly enough. Comic writers are really bad about taking stewardship of a property seriously. They come onto a book and decide that they don't like two characters and kill them, decide they do like two old dead characters and bring them back, change the look of a character - over time it makes the property as a whole schizophrenic and disposable. It's especially bad now that creative teams change so often. Even if some of the changes make sense individually as a whole it just leads to a total clusterfuck.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Velorath
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Reply #158 on: November 18, 2013, 04:36:02 PM

I think clusterfucks are inevitable any time you have characters being written by dozens or hundreds of writers over multiple decades. The best you can hope for is consistency within one writer's run.
MediumHigh
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Reply #159 on: November 18, 2013, 09:37:36 PM

I am a fan of comic book writing being self contained. Superheroes shouldn't be 60 year old characters but re-imaginings as the writing teams change. They basically do the same thing with all the recons and guess who replaced who crap. Its the trying to tell a cohesive story that spans decades that is the real hangnail for comics.
HaemishM
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Reply #160 on: November 19, 2013, 08:55:30 AM

See, I wouldn't mind the schizophrenia so much if the companies weren't also trying to sell you a "universe-spanning" (which really means all the company's titles) crossover story every year for 6 months out of the year. With the decompressed storytelling that is meant to have one story arc complete within a trade paperback, that means a new writer at best gets about 1 story arc, maybe two of their own before they have to alter their plans and character development to shoehorn in this massive story that may have very little to do with where they were going.

Marvel and Joe Q's attitude of "not being strangled by continuity" is all well and good until they start doing yearly multi-book crossovers that consume characters for months at a time.

MediumHigh
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Reply #161 on: November 19, 2013, 07:16:45 PM

These comic spanning events wouldn't be a big issue without the schizophrenia. Without the need to tie things together and demand to ignore the stuff the readers don't like in the continuity, you don't get crap like spiderman giving his secret identity during the civil war and the implications. If spiderman and civil war were self contained stories the last 3 years of spiderman would have been different.
Raguel
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Reply #162 on: November 20, 2013, 11:41:30 AM


I have discovered the joys of torrenting and I just gorged on the Annihilation/Guardians/Thanos Imperative.  I read the Guardians first and I was not expecting that. I was wondering why Starlord and not Warlock was the leader. Overall I liked the stories, but I'm glad I didn't have to pay ~$3 a pop for them.
HaemishM
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Reply #163 on: November 20, 2013, 12:15:30 PM

Hickman simply cannot tell stories where the human scale is remotely in focus. None of his Marvel characters really have personalities in any sense--they're all chesspieces on a plot board. And the plotboard is really just a piece in a larger gambit to establish a bigger, more abstract, more cosmic-for-the-sake-of-it scale. At least on FF, Hickman had the Future Foundation kids and Reed Richards to hold on to (the other members of the team got almost no real character attention in that time).

I've just started reading through the Hickman Avengers series. Fantastic art... but what the fuck am I reading? I'm 9 issues in and I just... what the fuck? It's like Jack Kirby's New Gods/Apokolips stuff mixed with some of Steve Ditko's indie work that had pretensions of philosophical mixed with just really off the wall stuff like Morrison's Invisibles or Ellis' Planetary. There was one sequence that was decent (a good set piece battle which I get to see so little of these days) in issue #7 or #8 where Capt. Marvel throws the Hulk at Strabrand from orbit - that was kind of cool. But shit, the inclusion of Capt. Universe (aka the black female version of the Sentry) harkens back to the worst parts of Bendis' run when he felt the need to put the Sentry in the book and then treat the rest of the Avengers as superfluous because of the power levels of the cosmic entity. I haven't gotten to Infinity yet, and I WANT to like this book if for no other reason than it puts Cannonball and Sunspot from the New Mutants in the Avengers, but shit. What is this?

Margalis
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Reply #164 on: November 20, 2013, 01:06:40 PM

When I talk about not treating the franchise with respect I'm talking about things like the treatment of the X-Men character Marrow. I don't remember exactly what happened with her but in essence each writer who got a hold of her decided they didn't like her and just changed her into something else. Or the way various X-people have been killed and brought back willy-nilly.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Raguel
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Reply #165 on: November 20, 2013, 05:24:08 PM

When I talk about not treating the franchise with respect I'm talking about things like the treatment of the X-Men character Marrow. I don't remember exactly what happened with her but in essence each writer who got a hold of her decided they didn't like her and just changed her into something else. Or the way various X-people have been killed and brought back willy-nilly.

Somewhat related, as a former Quasar fan I'm not sure I liked the whole Phyla deal, but I suppose more than most that's Quasar's thing (dying/resurrecting).
Velorath
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Reply #166 on: November 22, 2013, 03:40:46 PM



(Coming in March)
HaemishM
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Reply #167 on: November 22, 2013, 06:13:26 PM

Well that will be... interesting.

Evildrider
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Reply #168 on: November 22, 2013, 06:58:08 PM

As a Moon Knight fan, I approve. 
Raguel
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Reply #169 on: November 24, 2013, 07:21:54 AM


Anyone like the latest Guardians of the Galaxy? It doesn't seem to be as good as the previous version.

Velorath
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Reply #170 on: November 24, 2013, 12:56:32 PM


Anyone like the latest Guardians of the Galaxy? It doesn't seem to be as good as the previous version.



Bendis.
CmdrSlack
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Reply #171 on: November 24, 2013, 01:22:44 PM


Anyone like the latest Guardians of the Galaxy? It doesn't seem to be as good as the previous version.



Bendis.

In tandem with Nova, not too bad. We have a waste mgmt company in town named Groot. I really want to put "I am" above that logo on a t shirt.

I traded in my fun blog for several legal blogs. Or, "blawgs," as the cutesy attorney blawgosphere likes to call 'em.
Khaldun
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Reply #172 on: November 24, 2013, 02:35:14 PM

Really dislike it. In part because I thought the previous title was tons of fun. I really don't like Bendis on 'ordinary' titles, there's something sour about his take on a lot of it.
HaemishM
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Reply #173 on: November 25, 2013, 09:24:33 AM

I've just started reading through the Hickman Avengers series. Fantastic art... but what the fuck am I reading?

Started reading Hickman's New Avengers. It's only slightly less WHAT THE FUCK? So the Illuminati (one of the most idiotic ideas of the Bendis' era) gets back together to stop what sounds like the Anti-Monitor destroying infinite earths, brainwash Captain America because he won't let them destroy alternate earths to save their own, get all but one of the Infinity Gems destroyed in what amounted to a throwaway sequence and I just... what the fuck am I reading? Oh and Black Panther joins the group but doesn't murder Namor the minute he sees him even though he probably should because Namor flooded Wakanda during the AVX stuff. Just... I don't even know what this is.

Khaldun
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Reply #174 on: November 25, 2013, 11:44:49 AM

About the only really interesting bit was that it sort of explained why there should be "Infinity Gems" in the first place (seems kind of dumb to have gems that allow a single being to take over all of reality)--they're essentially an emergency weapon to deal with this sort of incursion of another universe. I like the grim determination that is the major mood of New Avengers but again, it basically ruins the characters overall by changing the scale at which they operate. Now they kill universes--kind of hard to imagine the Black Panther fighting Klaw any time soon. It's also a bit uncomfortable how much this actually resembles Crisis on Infinite Earths in plot terms and maybe even in terms of end objectives. (Basically I think they're going to bring all 'alternate' Marvel characters that they like into the main 616 universe and get rid of all the alternate universes).
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