Tomb Raider

[rk47]

I liked the bit where she is very upset after killing her first bad-guy and then five seconds later goes "Ah, good to get that out of my system" and starts headshotting (depending on your aim) and stealth-killing people in huge numbers without comment.  

[Lakov_Sanite]

I'm taking my time and it's very enjoyable.  Yes some stuff is silly(seriously were there cargo planes filled with skulls that crashed?)  but tomb raider is pulp adventure fantasy at its core and nowhere is it going wrong in that respect. 

The locals are beautiful, the gameplay is smooth and I love a good indiana jones mystical journey.

If I had one criticism it would be the side tombs being so small. Beautiful as they can be, they are essentially one room puzzles.

[Xuri]

Yeah that bothered me a bit as well. You arrive in those tombs, then you spend maybe a couple of minutes figuring out how the one puzzle that is there works - then you open one chest and you're done. :/ On the other hand, the shortness of them do tend to reduce them from "a chore" to "might as well do it while I'm here" - as you get nothing else from doing them other than more achievement points or % of the game completed, or whatnot.

[Trippy]

PC patch is out.

[schpain]

the whole one-room puzzle thing has its pro's and con's.  I'm with Xuri, they don't feel like a chore, but sometimes I want more of them.  Either slightly longer or more of them would be fine.

[Venkman]

I agree. For being called Tomb Raider, there's very few tombs and very little raiding. Doesn't bother me too much though.

I'm not sure I see the parallels to Arkham Asylum that some have said though. Feels a bit more like Dishonored with some ME-style cover/target shooting mixed in.

[Tarami]

I feel like a fucking retard when doing QTEs and this game abounds with them. If the intention is for it to be more immersive, it's just wholly misguided. I cringe at the stupidity of them. SUDDENLY: MINI-GAME! BET YOU DIDN'T SEE THAT ONE COMING!

No, I didn't, you smug asshole, I expected to be able to use my fucking gun, not have a directed epileptic seizure. You keep changing the goddamn rules of the game as it suits you like you were a five year old. If you set up a scene of suspense, I want to feel rewarded for preparing properly (i.e. taking out my gun), not have random instructions rammed into my face. If I can't read what's going to happen, there's no payoff to investing in the scene. I'm just going to fail a QTE, reload, pass the QTE, and move on. It's no better than what Doom 3 did with its goddamn monster-in-the-closet kind of gameplay.

/vent

[Lakov_Sanite]

You must really fucking hate wario ware.

[Venkman]

I don't have a problem with the QTEs except for those (thankfully few) occasions when the inputs didn't show up at all. They were really annoying in the first few zones, but either I've gotten used to them now near the end, or they taper off.

[Nayr]

So let me get this straight, teenage Lara Croft almost gets felt up by some sleazy crook, she kills him resisting, and suddenly turns into a major badass and kills her way through the rest of the game?

Am I getting the gist of it?

[Lakov_Sanite]

Not really, that one scene is maybe two seconds long and not rapey as people are want to think.  More like she gets beat the fuck up, shoots a guy in the face and gets over it really quick.

[Sir T]

Defiantly not as rapey as the death scene where she fails to kick off a bad guy and he sticks his Pick into her.

Pick. Its a mining tool, not a typo. You see.

[rk47]

Not really, that one scene is maybe two seconds long and not rapey as people are want to think.  More like she gets beat the fuck up, shoots a guy in the face and gets over it really quick.

With the power of feminism, anything is possible.

[Lakov_Sanite]

What's funny is the game writer is the daughter of Terry Pratchett.

[Ironwood]

The revelation of which seemed to chill everyone the fuck out.

Proving once again that people are hypocritical fucking over reacting douchebags of the highest order.

[tgr]

Which should come as absolutely no surprise to anyone, ever.

[koro]

Well you can't really blame people like Gail Simone for going "Wow, that's kind of rapey-looking and uncomfortable" when essentially all the early PR for the game was a lot of talking heads doing their damnedest to make it look rapey and uncomfortable.

[tgr]

And what makes that require any more press coverage or attention than the times men have been put in a vaguely similar position in videogames?

[Lakov_Sanite]

You know the part that bothered my girlfriend the most? It wasn't creepy dude, it was vertigo she got from all the high up scenes.

[Tarami]

Well you can't really blame people like Gail Simone for going "Wow, that's kind of rapey-looking and uncomfortable" when essentially all the early PR for the game was a lot of talking heads doing their damnedest to make it look rapey and uncomfortable.

I didn't follow the PR for the game beyond establishing "this looks fun" so I don't know all the material that was published, but there's ONE, ONE as mentioned very short sequence early in the game which could be construed as sexually abusive. Even then it seems to me that he caresses her to make her uncomfortable rather than because he gets off on it. You're back to brutal, visceral, hand-to-hand murder in like five seconds. I don't think anyone gets that close to her again for the rest of the game, other than when smashing her head to pieces in gruesome close-ups.

Yeah, I'm emphasizing something.

It's all in your head.

[Sir T]

Yeah. How could anyone accuse a Lara Croft game of being in any way sexist or objectifying women. What was everyone thinking.

[Tarami]

That wasn't what I was trying to say. That's really a different discussion, aswell. I was arguing against the notion that it's somehow presented as a rape fantasy or glorifies being a rapist asshole. Was there any PR material that gave off the vibe that she actually really enjoys it? Now that would bother me.

Yeah, it's strong imagery. That's why it ended up in a trailer and everything.

[UnSub]

And what makes that require any more press coverage or attention than the times men have been put in a vaguely similar position in videogames?

When has a male lead character been promoted as almost getting raped in his game? And that in order to make him strong and relateable as a character, the game narrative focuses on building him up just to break him down again?

[Lakov_Sanite]

Strawman. Tomb raider was not promoted as her 'almost getting raped' in fact nothing even close to that happens. She gets broken down physically and emotionally as do many heroes in novels and people confused that with somehow her being a victim.  We never consider people like Frodo a victim even though by the end he's gotten pretty fucked up and it's sort of similar to that.

In short, one half second of lecherous grab does not a rape scene make.

[Nayr]

Strawman. Tomb raider was not promoted as her 'almost getting raped' in fact nothing even close to that happens. She gets broken down physically and emotionally as do many heroes in novels and people confused that with somehow her being a victim.  We never consider people like Frodo a victim even though by the end he's gotten pretty fucked up and it's sort of similar to that.

In short, one half second of lecherous grab does not a rape scene make.

True. But the fact that the guy did that is indicative of his intentions. And the shock/realization of that is enough to make someone lash out/resist. And the guy ended up dead.

[Lakov_Sanite]

What's your point? Are you saying that having any hint of abuse towards a female hero is bad?

The premise of the game is that you're in the "not" bermuda triangle and ships have been wrecked there for centuries, so thousands of people have found their way to the island.  The game doesn't gives only a passing mention of what happened to the women and children, neither of which is sexual.  The game actively shies away from such uncomfortable things which would almost certainly happen in real life.

So you really get with tomb raider completely sanitized game where graphic gore and violence is acceptable in the extreme and any uncomfortable topic is brushed over so fast it makes your head spin.

[Ironwood]

WHY ARE WE DOING THIS AGAIN ?!

[UnSub]

Strawman. Tomb raider was not promoted as her 'almost getting raped' in fact nothing even close to that happens. She gets broken down physically and emotionally as do many heroes in novels and people confused that with somehow her being a victim.  We never consider people like Frodo a victim even though by the end he's gotten pretty fucked up and it's sort of similar to that.

In short, one half second of lecherous grab does not a rape scene make.

It came out of an interview with the game's executive producer. He was the one who used the "attempted rape" terminology as part of how much they were going to pile on top of Croft, which indicated the lecherous grab was the potential start of something else. And then the early preview was all about Lara Croft getting beaten up.

Also, it's nearly only the female characters that get strength raped / sexually assaulted into them. Male heroes who suffer their way to strength usually do so through surviving physical tests (which may include beatings and torture). (They generally don't get 'raped' appended to their character history because (at least in part) a male who's raped is perceived to be weakened - he couldn't even fight off his attackers.)

So while it may not have made up much of the released game, it was part of the E3 2012 promotion. The reaction may have led to other things being downplayed before release; it certainly led to the involvement of Rhianna Pratchett being played up a lot more.

[tgr]

And what makes that require any more press coverage or attention than the times men have been put in a vaguely similar position in videogames?

When has a male lead character been promoted as almost getting raped in his game? And that in order to make him strong and relateable as a character, the game narrative focuses on building him up just to break him down again?

Actually, apparently there was a male on male rape in far cry 3, and one of the endings in far cry 3 involves Citra drugging the player, tying the player up and fucking the player. And then killing the player. vOv

[Samwise]

And what makes that require any more press coverage or attention than the times men have been put in a vaguely similar position in videogames?

When has a male lead character been promoted as almost getting raped in his game? And that in order to make him strong and relateable as a character, the game narrative focuses on building him up just to break him down again?

Actually, apparently there was a male on male rape in far cry 3, and one of the endings in far cry 3 involves Citra drugging the player, tying the player up and fucking the player. And then killing the player. vOv

But Far Cry 3 didn't count because it was a male character being put in that position and therefore it didn't merit a blogstorm.  Therefore there are no examples of male characters being put in that position, since only examples which are notable by virtue of having generated blogstorms are worth discussing.   Therefore video games are sexist.  QED.

[Tarami]

So, to change the subject to the subject of the thread:

It's not much of a game, but it's a really spectacular interactive movie. Like, really. Even on hard it's really rather easy and the platforming doesn't require much dexterity. The cover-based shooting is meh and formulaic, almost entirely comprised of arena-type encounters. The QTEs are aggravating (as you noticed ) in the early game but disappear almost entirely to be replaced by either combat or actual platforming sequences.

I have to say Luddington did a really good job as Lara. I didn't groan and try to skip past every time she opened her mouth, as is par for game voice-over. But boy, recording must have been harsh on her throat with all that screaming.

I'd give it a C+ for gameplay, an A for presentation.

[Sjofn]

Spoilering this ENTIRE THING so people just go "oh, that Sjofn, what a feminazi!" and either read it or completely ignore it and talk about the actual game! I wrote it, god dammit, so I'm posting it!

[Paelos]

I agree with Ironwood.

[Sir T]

Is it time for a blazing saddles quote yet?

[rk47]