The Pee-Ess Four: It's a PC FFS.

[Trippy]

In this modern age where I can run a console emulator in a JVM in a Linux Virtualbox in a Windows VMware on OSX it's surprising to me that this would be a hard nut to crack, but I guess it's the pecularities of the hardware itself that make things difficult?  Maybe they'll end up caving at the last second and sticking an old chip in there like they did last time, then.  Not being able to play old games just makes them look dumb.

Yes, as I mentioned the Cell architecture is very complex. There's also the issue that the Cell can perform a ridiculous amount of floating-point operations per second given its transistor count. An Intel i7-3770 is just about as fast in FP operations as the Cell but has 5x the number of transistors. Now try emulating a Cell through an x86 CPU and see what kind of FP performance you get.

[rk47]

Streaming games = PC.
RPS continues the tradition of hyping shit.

[Margalis]

Every console has been "just a PC" to some degree past the days of dedicated sprite and tiling hardware. It's really a completely pointless thing to say.

[rk47]

Yeah this article on Gamasutra in the other hand seems more rational.

Ultimately Sony have succeeded in doing what I thought impossible: they announced a product that everyone knew was coming, and failed to tell their customers and shareholders the full technical specs, the full features list, the price, the release date, the availability, or anything else.  They didn't even give us a mock-up of what it looked like.  While this announcement may have stirred some (dis)interest, it answered nothing and provided even more questions, all the while highlighting major negative trends in the gaming industry.  I really have to wonder if ultimately the only reason we didn't learn the price is because Sony wanted to avoid another "599 US dollars" debacle.

[UnSub]

PCs are just DIY consoles that require more protection software. 

[HaemishM]

-x86 architecture

FFS, Why?

[Trippy]

Easier for developers.

[Merusk]

Honestly, if Gaikai is actually viable, and actually reasonably well for their backwards compatability more or less forever across all platforms, I'm down.  It's more or less what I've been using Steam for on PC's anyhow.  It's nice that consoles might finally be catching up.

Don't assume this is a 'catching up thing.'   It's totally a 'fuck those secondhand sales' thing.

Fan that I am of Steam, I write every purchase off as a loss that I'll never be able to play in the future, which is why I don't buy most games at > the $10 price point.  Not to be all Sinaj about it, but any system that can remove your access to purchases you made is a bad thing.

That gamasutra article makes me chuckle because it's mainstreaming a complaint I've had for years.  You can't keep pushing "ooh awesome graphics" because eventually you'll hit a wall where people don't care because the improvements are too minor or you're in full uncanny valley.  We were there years ago and now everyone's realizing that the emperor has no clothes on the gameplay side.   Whoops!

ed: And I realize I'm old but "ooh, instant LP streams!" is a feature?  So now watching other people play games is better than playing them yourself? Dafuq?

[Margalis]

Every time I want to like Gamasutra I read some piece there about how shitty social/mobile "mid-core" games are teh future.

[sickrubik]

Not saying the price makes Microsoft have to make the first move. They are clearly ready to try to right the ship and probably willign to take a big hit on the hardware end of things.

Personally, I came away impressed with the presser, down notes (Square Enix) aside.  The SquareEnix debacle I think proves a bit that the EU/US arm of things had a LOT more say in this generation in terms of marketing and development. Something that I think they did incredibly right this time.

And really, who gives a fuck what it looks like. I remember caring that the PS3 was domed but it ended up, all these years later to not really matter.

As for the streaming/social sharing shit... that is huge for a big part of the gaming community. I've never used it, but there is no mistake why things like Ustream and Twitch have succeeded. People DO like that shit. If you don't, that's great.. I know I certainly don't give a shit, but that doesn't mean it's not an important step for Sony and honestly, still impressive from a technical standpoint.

[Ingmar]

In this modern age where I can run a console emulator in a JVM in a Linux Virtualbox in a Windows VMware on OSX it's surprising to me that this would be a hard nut to crack, but I guess it's the pecularities of the hardware itself that make things difficult?  Maybe they'll end up caving at the last second and sticking an old chip in there like they did last time, then.  Not being able to play old games just makes them look dumb.

The likely compromise is going to be porting the 20 most popular PS3 games so they can placate 80% of the whining.

Put it this way, the PS3 can't really run Skyrim in a non-virtual environment, now put it in a VM. 

[Fordel]

ed: And I realize I'm old but "ooh, instant LP streams!" is a feature?  So now watching other people play games is better than playing them yourself? Dafuq?

Yea, no one does that. http://www.twitch.tv/ 

[Merusk]

Until you and Kubrick I had never heard of that.  Being over 35 and not in the tech field does that.

[Margalis]

The thing about stream watching is I might watch a Let's Play from a charismatic person, some sort of pre-release stream, a stream of a pro-gamer or E-sports event, but I have no desire to watch a stream from Joe Random Dumbass.

I mean on Twitch you'll see a couple streamers that have 8k viewers then the rest have 8.

[Goreschach]

The thing about stream watching is I might watch a Let's Play from a charismatic person, some sort of pre-release stream, a stream of a pro-gamer or E-sports event, but I have no desire to watch a stream from Joe Random Dumbass.

I mean on Twitch you'll see a couple streamers that have 8k viewers then the rest have 8.

This is accurate, and streamlining the process will do nothing to help the signal-to-noise ratio.

[sickrubik]

It makes it accessible, though. People WANT to share stuff. Only a handfull of people see the stupid pictures I post about my cat on facebook, but I still do that, too.

And there's probably a worse signal to noise ratio on cat pictures on the internet.

[Trippy]

Not saying the price makes Microsoft have to make the first move. They are clearly ready to try to right the ship and probably willign to take a big hit on the hardware end of things.

Sony is hemorrhaging money. They can't afford to lose money on the PS4. Given that they didn't show the console they probably don't have final hardware yet and don't know yet what it's going to cost them to make. They probably will wait for MS to announce pricing first but they don't have much flexibility in pricing given how bad their financial situation is.
 

[sickrubik]

Not saying the price makes Microsoft have to make the first move. They are clearly ready to try to right the ship and probably willign to take a big hit on the hardware end of things.

Sony is hemorrhaging money. They can't afford to lose money on the PS4. Given that they didn't show the console they probably don't have final hardware yet and don't know yet what it's going to cost them to make. They probably will wait for MS to announce pricing first but they don't have much flexibility in pricing given how bad their financial situation is.
 

The game and entertainment divisions (especially music amusingly) are the things that are keeping them up. The TV Set division is in REALLY BAD shape.

However, this really is a make or break moment, which is why they have to be more flexible than not. I left out mentioning the hardware end of things, because it's more or less moot. They have to knock it out of the park pricing wise, it's an unknown, and regardless what that range is, they're still waiting for Microsoft to tip their hand. Don't read my comments as thinking Sony will be trying to hit the $199 mark. Far from it.

PS2 was $299 at launch. the PS3 was $499 (and up). I'm guessing we see the PS4 at $399 (and up). I think the lowest they go is $349. I think Microsft DOES come in lower with either a subsidized model or another "core"/"arcade" system at $250/$299.

[Hawkbit]

InFamous looked like it might be fun from the setting.  God knows I want to parkour some Seattle hipsters, totally playing evil.  Hopefully there's coffee in the future.

[rk47]

MEANWHILE, KOTAKU ASKS THE HARD QUESTIONS...

[Trippy]

Not saying the price makes Microsoft have to make the first move. They are clearly ready to try to right the ship and probably willign to take a big hit on the hardware end of things.

Sony is hemorrhaging money. They can't afford to lose money on the PS4. Given that they didn't show the console they probably don't have final hardware yet and don't know yet what it's going to cost them to make. They probably will wait for MS to announce pricing first but they don't have much flexibility in pricing given how bad their financial situation is.

The game and entertainment divisions (especially music amusingly) are the things that are keeping them up. The TV Set division is in REALLY BAD shape.

Last quarter (Christmas) the game division made $53 million. The quarter before it lost $45 million.

[Margalis]

I hate the fact that people use women/woman when "female" is the correct word.

[tmp]

MEANWHILE, KOTAKU ASKS THE HARD QUESTIONS...

Lack of female presenters is a fair point to make, but i do have to roll eyes at the "100% white dudes" complaint. It's painting a slightly skewed picture.

[Soln]

I think Sony should sue for peace.  This ground war is over.

[Kageru]

It will be interesting to see if Microsoft uses this as an opportunity to bury them. They certainly have the money and there's nothing "special" about the machine to give it a system advantage.

[MahrinSkel]

My first reaction was 'So, it's another locked down PC "console".' My second was 'All those poor bastards that spent the last 8 years learning Cell programming are stuck with an orphan skillset.'  Then my nephew got bored and wanted to play Black Ops 2.

--Dave

[jakonovski]

I must be a sucker because I'm going to be queuing for this day 1. Unless the new Ecks Bocks comes sooner, then I'll queue for that day 1.

[Rendakor]

I'll probably buy one at launch too, but that's more to support Sony than because anything about the system has me excited. I'm pretty disappointed they didn't announce anything for the Vita at the conference either, besides "More Remote Play, for real this time". 

[Maledict]

It will be interesting to see if Microsoft uses this as an opportunity to bury them. They certainly have the money and there's nothing "special" about the machine to give it a system advantage.

Everything we have heard and read abut the MS machine indicates the PS4 is significantly more powerful. Where that apparently will make the difference is that you'll run the same game on the PS4 at a higher res and frame rate than the news Xbox.

Also will be interesting to see the kinect stuff about the new Xbox - the rumours are its embedded into the machine and Microsoft is focussing on the non-gaming side of things to y and transition straight to a media hub in this generation. It may be too soon to do that, and kinect has really not caught the interest of gamers in the long run at all.

Very disappointed in the lack of games shown by Sony though - and the lack of clear in game graphics and gameplay.

[Margalis]

It seems to me that everyone is suffering from long development lead times.

I'm sure Diablo 3 sounded like a slam dunk a year ago, now the prospect of getting D3 on PS4 years after release is completely unexciting. When MS was developing the 720 Kinect was booming but I think it's already largely petered out. It's basically the Wii but suitable for a much narrower range of games.

[Ironwood]

That gamasutra article makes me chuckle because it's mainstreaming a complaint I've had for years.  You can't keep pushing "ooh awesome graphics" because eventually you'll hit a wall where people don't care because the improvements are too minor or you're in full uncanny valley.  We were there years ago and now everyone's realizing that the emperor has no clothes on the gameplay side.   Whoops!

I can't agree with this more, even though it's just a personal opinion.  Having gone back to older games where the graphics are shite, but the gameplay is still engaging, it makes you wonder what the fuck people are actually doing these days.  And I'm not just talking about high profile abortions like Diablo III.

[tgr]

I seem to remember making various comments about today's gamers being focused on the "all-important graphical glitz" at the expense of gameplay, and getting shot down with "your gaming tastes have just changed".

[jakonovski]

One of the strengths of the f13 forums is that there's always someone to hate any given game. So whatever you like, you're wrong! 

[Margalis]

When I was a kid and the Genesis had just come out I told my parents I still wanted an NES because while the Genesis had better graphics the games didn't have the depth of NES games.

And I was right! At least for the first batch of Genesis games like Last Battle, Ghouls and Ghosts, etc.

[Kageru]

There's lots of terrible looking indie games on the PC 

To an extent the consoles, barring the wii, make the big money and get their retail penetration from the huge budget, massively marketed name brand, games. And those brands are always selling on graphics that look great on the trailer and provides a huge wow factor that feeds the "this is something special" reception. You could even argue they're not really very sophisticated gamers and are even happy to sacrifice interactivity for set piece effect in the gameplay.

That and the console with bigger numbers is obviously the better one.