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Author Topic: Marvel Universe (Thar be spoilers ahead.)  (Read 605766 times)
jgsugden
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Reply #770 on: June 19, 2014, 10:31:22 AM

You could argue this stuff all day and anyone that is stubborn (for example; everyone on f13) will not budge from their current view. 

Dr. Strange is looking like it may trend highly towards the early years.  I have a feeling this movie is going to be more enjoyable in Colorado and Washington.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
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Reply #771 on: June 20, 2014, 09:15:51 PM

Stark's behaviour in IM1 is directly linked to his abduction and near-death experience body.

IM2 has him dying from alloy poisoning. (This only really makes him more of a jerk, but everyone accepts that Stark is a charming jerk, so there's not a lot of character impact there. Plus all the time that was lost grounding the audience for the Avengers film.)

IM3 has him suffering PSTD. I could make a case that PSTD hitting him at that point is actually not just about what happens in the Avengers, but what has happened to him in summary from his near death experience, but that would be skimmed by most.

The difference between Marvel and DC films right now is that DC films want to show the impact of the character's behaviour, where Marvel has generally gone for the Rule of Cool and ignored the implications. Which has led to people saying how much Marvel makes sure their properties are "fun" where DC doesn't.

But then, I would have preferred that IM1 used this scene as the introduction of Tony Stark as Iron Man - and show that Stark is actually in some kind of danger in wearing the armour -  and not the meet cute with Pepper Potts that the film actually had:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0pU7_tQljY

jgsugden
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Reply #772 on: June 21, 2014, 10:33:17 AM

...
The difference between Marvel and DC films right now is that DC films want to show the impact of the character's behaviour, where Marvel has generally gone for the Rule of Cool and ignored the implications. Which has led to people saying how much Marvel makes sure their properties are "fun" where DC doesn't. ...
I would not say that the impact of a character's behavior is not something that Marvel worries about.  That is a big issues on MAoS, the ramifications of Stark's introduction of new technology was the core of Iron Man II, Thor is almost always focused on his responsibility to Asgard,

I would say that the difference is that Marvel focuses on a story while DC focuses on story elements.  DC is too worried about adding drama, adding humor, adding action, etc... to worry about how they fit together.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Trippy
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Reply #773 on: July 18, 2014, 02:27:33 PM

New Thor discussion moved here:

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=24314.0
Evildrider
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Reply #774 on: July 18, 2014, 11:10:20 PM

This is the updated Marvel schedule with the 5 new dates announced.  I'm assuming we will get the rest of the details at Comic-Con.

August 1, 2014 - Guardians of the Galaxy

May 1, 2015 - Avengers 2

July 17, 2015 - Ant-Man

May 6, 2016 - Cap 3

July 8, 2016 -  Doctor Strange(Rumored)

July 28, 2017

November 3, 2017

July 6, 2018

November 2, 2018

May 3, 2019
Velorath
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Reply #775 on: July 19, 2014, 03:21:44 AM

This is the updated Marvel schedule with the 5 new dates announced.  I'm assuming we will get the rest of the details at Comic-Con.

August 1, 2014 - Guardians of the Galaxy

May 1, 2015 - Avengers 2

July 17, 2015 - Ant-Man

May 6, 2016 - Cap 3

July 8, 2016 -  Doctor Strange(Rumored)

July 28, 2017

November 3, 2017

July 6, 2018

November 2, 2018

May 3, 2019

You missed May 5, 2017 (three movies that year). Presumably one of those dates will be for Avengers 3 which essentially leaves 5 unknown. I'd be surprised to see any of them announced at Comic-Con, and would expect to see maybe one or two announced around the time of Avengers 2 when they want to start laying out their plan for Phase 3.

Edit: Thor 3 would be a fairly safe bet as well. Also if GOTG is a hit they'd likely want to get a sequel out before 2019 so that could account for another slot. From this year's Comic-Con I'd expect maybe a formal announcement of Dr. Strange with some possible teases about the plot. Possibly the full name of Cap 3 as well.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 03:30:42 AM by Velorath »
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #776 on: July 19, 2014, 06:08:12 AM

Quote
Also if GOTG is a hit they'd likely want to get a sequel out before 2019

James Gunn has said as much on the Adam Carolla podcast, that if GOTG is a hit then the sequel is going to be the next movie he makes.  So likely it'll be a 2017 release.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Fordel
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Reply #777 on: July 19, 2014, 01:59:37 PM

I'll be sad if one of those isn't Captain Marvel.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Velorath
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Reply #778 on: July 19, 2014, 04:13:20 PM

My somewhat random guesses:

July 8, 2016 -  Doctor Strange

May 5, 2017 - Hulk

July 28, 2017 - Guardians of the Galaxy 2

November 3, 2017 - Thor 3

May 4, 2018 - Added later. Avengers 3 could end up here instead now.

July 6, 2018 - Avengers 3

November 2, 2018 - New series (would guess either Black Panther or Inhumans, but could be any number of things)

May 3, 2019 - Iron Man 4 or Cap 4


While Avengers is usually a May release, 2017 seems too early and 2019 seems too late. I can only assume that with May 2018 currently not on the list that one of the Star Wars spin-offs will be taking that date. So looking at a 2018 release, the weekend following the 4th of July seems like a better bet than November and that would close out Phase 3 with 7 movies.  Thor's not a strong enough franchise to get the May 2017 release and GOTG 2 seems like a better fit for an end of Summer movie like the first one. Thor's last release was in November, and 2017 seems about the longest they'd want to wait between Thor 2 and 3.  With two new series already being introduced with Ant-Man and Dr. Strange, it would seem unlikely for a third that quickly and again, May tends to be an important date so they'd probably be looking for something more established. Assuming Hulk once again has a strong part in Avengers, May 2017 would seem like a good date to build off that in a solo movie.

That leaves the last couple dates. Any series left that would be getting a sequel is likely too strong for an early November release so I would expect a new franchise there. Kevin Feige has seemed pretty excited in the past about the possibility of doing the Inhumans. Black Panther seems like another strong possibility. As Fordel illustrates, there are a lot of people out there who really want to see a Ms. Marvel movie, although most of the rumors I've seen in regards to it actually happening seem to involve a lot of wishful thinking. May 2019 is another summer tent-pole release. Cap 2 is still currently the top grossing movie domestically this year, and if Cap 3 remains strong, I can see them wanting to do a Cap 4. This is also around the time they'll have probably wanted to decide what they're going to do with the Iron Man solo franchise (assuming that isn't actually the May 2017 release).
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 05:28:20 PM by Velorath »
HaemishM
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Reply #779 on: July 19, 2014, 05:47:57 PM

One of those may also be a Black Widow movie.

Evildrider
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Reply #780 on: July 19, 2014, 06:18:55 PM

If Guardians hits it off, I wonder what the chances are for a Nova movie. 
jgsugden
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Reply #781 on: July 19, 2014, 06:49:57 PM

The current plan for most years is one srwiel and one new character/team per year... don't anticipate so many sequels.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Velorath
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Reply #782 on: July 19, 2014, 07:27:17 PM

The current plan for most years is one srwiel and one new character/team per year... don't anticipate so many sequels.

Big movie studios don't generally stop making sequels to extremely successful franchises in order to focus on trying something new. Also if they do one sequel and one new movie a year they'd quickly get to a point where there would be 5-6 years gaps between the first movie and a sequel. At that point you're churning out a bunch of characters and then not taking the time to develop them any further after that.

Edit: Also, I'd expect that any new Hulk movie wouldn't really be like a sequel to the last one and it would serve more as that year's new series, leaving my list of guesses with one new series each for 2016-2018.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 02:13:48 AM by Velorath »
Khaldun
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Reply #783 on: July 19, 2014, 07:44:47 PM

I'm guessing they're thinking hard about the first round of films post-Avengers 3 that will probably feature recasts of some of the major characters. Evans has made it clear that he's out after his contract and I assume RDJ too.
Evildrider
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Reply #784 on: July 19, 2014, 08:25:03 PM

I'm guessing they're thinking hard about the first round of films post-Avengers 3 that will probably feature recasts of some of the major characters. Evans has made it clear that he's out after his contract and I assume RDJ too.


Which is why they introduced Falcon.. Obviously he's the new Cap in Cap 4.   awesome, for real
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #785 on: July 19, 2014, 10:11:58 PM

The current plan for most years is one srwiel and one new character/team per year... don't anticipate so many sequels.

Well as for guardians the director has flat out said that should the movie do well(which by all indication it will) the big wigs want him to go right into the sequel as his next movie.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Fordel
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Reply #786 on: July 19, 2014, 11:52:34 PM

As Fordel illustrates, there are a lot of people out there who really want to see a Ms. Captain Marvel movie, although most of the rumors I've seen in regards to it actually happening seem to involve a lot of wishful thinking.


She's a Captain now dammit!   tongue


I bet we see a Captain Marvel movie before a Wonderwoman one... which is kinda sad thinking about it.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Velorath
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Reply #787 on: July 20, 2014, 02:44:59 AM

I'm guessing they're thinking hard about the first round of films post-Avengers 3 that will probably feature recasts of some of the major characters. Evans has made it clear that he's out after his contract and I assume RDJ too.


I would imagine if enough of the new characters are hits, they can replace Iron Man and Cap movies. Iron Man without RDJ would likely put up numbers more in line with the other Marvel stuff. If he's gone there's not a huge financial need to keep the franchise going if they have other stuff that's doing well. Cap would probably continue to do similar numbers to what it's doing now with Bucky or Falcon taking over so they could keep that going if they wanted. Maybe it's wishful thinking here but I feel like if Ant Man, Dr. Strange, GOTG, and whatever other new stuff comes out between now and Avengers 3 does well, you have A3 essentially be a send off for Iron Man, Cap, Thor, and probably Hawkeye and Black Widow as well. At that point you're still potentially left with Ant Man, Dr. Strange, Falcon, Winter Soldier, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Vision, maybe Hulk, for future Avengers movies, and theoretically the characters from the Netflix stuff as well.
Khaldun
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Reply #788 on: July 20, 2014, 01:48:39 PM

I'm still puzzled a bit that they haven't gone harder at Black Panther, who I think is movie-ready if they do a mash-up of Priest and Hudlin's takes on the character.

On the other hand, once they get out of the "Cap's Kooky Quartet" era of the old comics, they're in for trouble as far as characters who can sustain films. Hercules is out of the question for all sorts of reasons.

Black Knight and Swordsman, I don't see it.

Moondragon, Mantis, everyone from that era, no fucking way.

Captain Marvel/Ms. Marvel: could work, they're probably getting her set up now.

She-Hulk: probably not.

Starfox: no fucking way, ever. Date-Rape-Man, not going to happen.

Some of the New Warriors characters like Justice or Firestar, probably not.

Maybe Luke Cage and Iron Fist if their series does well. Or Daredevil or Jessica Jones, ditto.

At a certain point they're out of characters--so I think they'll have to go for James-Bond-style recasts and keep doing films now and again about the Big Three.
Fordel
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Reply #789 on: July 20, 2014, 01:59:13 PM

If they do She-Hulk it will be some kind of TV/Netflix thing, where its just like her current comic, being the lawyer for superheroes.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Evildrider
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Reply #790 on: July 20, 2014, 02:30:35 PM

I'd like to see Wonder Man! 

Also you could do a Hawkeye film which allows you to bring in Mockingbird. 

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Reply #791 on: July 20, 2014, 02:44:40 PM

On the other hand, once they get out of the "Cap's Kooky Quartet" era of the old comics, they're in for trouble as far as characters who can sustain films.

They're probably at least a decade away (Avengers 5) before they need to start worrying about that too much, and by that point audiences may well have stopped caring about the MCU anyway. That May 3rd, 2019 date will be the 20th movie over the course of 11 years.
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Reply #792 on: July 20, 2014, 05:39:56 PM

Quote
I'll be sad if one of those isn't Captain Marvel.

My guess is they wait for a Wonder Woman movie, which DC will fuck up completely, and they'll crush with Carol.

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
Fordel
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Reply #793 on: July 20, 2014, 05:59:33 PM

Quote
I'll be sad if one of those isn't Captain Marvel.

My guess is they wait for a Wonder Woman movie, which DC will fuck up completely, and they'll crush with Carol.

So it's never happening then  sad

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
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Reply #794 on: July 21, 2014, 12:20:10 AM

Moonknight could be pretty awesome as a movie.

I think the bigger problem for Marvel Studios is villains, in that ones with name recognition are tied up in other studios.

eldaec
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Reply #795 on: July 21, 2014, 01:06:02 AM

I'm not convinced there are any comic book villains with meaningful name recognition outside of lex luthor, various Batman villains, and possibly venom.

Name recognition with comic book fans doesn't count, you're going to pay to see the film anyway.

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rk47
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Reply #796 on: July 21, 2014, 01:22:14 AM

Dr. Footdive is pr. popular.

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eldaec
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Reply #797 on: July 21, 2014, 06:54:39 AM

Dr. Footdive is pr. popular.

I have no idea if that is some obscure crap that comic book fans understand or an autocorrect error.

Not that they really need name recognition.

Iron Man and Thor had next to none. They worked because they made a good film.

Name recognition only matters if your film is bad.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Khaldun
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Reply #798 on: July 21, 2014, 11:49:29 AM

Pretty much, yeah. Though it helps to pick a villain that a good actor and script can really light up and make a draw in his/her own right, which takes both a good concept AND not following the comic overly literally, since most comic-book villains have at best one-dimensionality. See: Loki, who not only is better in the films than most of the comics, but whose cinematic portrayal has helped spur an interesting revision of the character in the comics.

I don't really hold out a heck of a lot of hope for Thanos in that respect, but we'll see soon enough.

Kang the Conqueror might have some potential in a future Avengers flick.

Some version of a villain team, Masters of Evil-ish, could also work if they pick the right 2nd-stringers (Absorbing Man, Taskmaster--people with fun powers who don't need ridiculous amounts of backstory).



Velorath
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Reply #799 on: July 21, 2014, 01:11:38 PM

Yeah, it would be cool if they started introducing characters for an eventual Masters of Evil and possibly Thunderbolts. Zemo, Goliath, the Enchantress, Skurge the Executioner, Beetle, Fixer, Screaming Mimi are all decent characters and would be easy to introduce in the MCU without too much set up.
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Reply #800 on: July 21, 2014, 01:22:08 PM

I'm not convinced there are any comic book villains with meaningful name recognition outside of lex luthor, various Batman villains, and possibly venom.

Name recognition with comic book fans doesn't count, you're going to pay to see the film anyway.

Dr. Doom, The Red Skull, Dr. Octopus and Magneto were recognizable villains and why they were used for movies. Of those, Marvel holds the rights to one.

Remember that the Fantastic Four were licensed off prior to Marvel Studios because they were a publicly recognizable property, like Spiderman and the X-men.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Simond
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Reply #801 on: July 21, 2014, 01:24:13 PM

I still want a Nextwave movie. Or TV series. Or cartoon.
Whatever.  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

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eldaec
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Reply #802 on: July 21, 2014, 02:38:59 PM

I'm not convinced there are any comic book villains with meaningful name recognition outside of lex luthor, various Batman villains, and possibly venom.

Name recognition with comic book fans doesn't count, you're going to pay to see the film anyway.

Dr. Doom, The Red Skull, Dr. Octopus and Magneto were recognizable villains and why they were used for movies. Of those, Marvel holds the rights to one.

Remember that the Fantastic Four were licensed off prior to Marvel Studios because they were a publicly recognizable property, like Spiderman and the X-men.

As a non-comic following geek I had only heard if Dr Doom prior to the film and had a vague idea he was a Spiderman villain. Seriously, these guys have no recognition outside of comic fans.

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"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
jgsugden
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Reply #803 on: July 21, 2014, 03:07:51 PM

There has been exposure outside comic books.  There were animated series on TV showing various Marvel characters since the 80s.  A lot of people that have never read a comic book know who a lot of these characters are... but I think that is a bit irrelevant.  The name brand of a villian can be established through the promotion of the movie.  All that matters is if the hero is of interest.  And, if GotG does well, they may very well establish that they don't need name brand heroes in order to sell Marvel movies.

I made a list about 3 years ago of potential Marvel MCU movie franchises and the list exceeded 100 options.  It included things like Thunderbolts, Namor, Ka-zar, etc...  but if they can get this much anticipation for Guardians of the Galaxy, everything on that list is not out of the realm of reason.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Evildrider
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Reply #804 on: July 21, 2014, 03:09:51 PM

I think this is the most hyped I've been for a Marvel movie since Iron Man. 
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