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Author Topic: Marvel Universe (Thar be spoilers ahead.)  (Read 105488 times)
Evildrider
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on: February 05, 2013, 07:48:41 PM

I figured it would be easier to do a mega thread for Marvel since there is a bit of news out there at the moment.

First big news/rumor item is that Avengers Phase 2 is looking like it's going to lead to World War Hulk.  With the Hulk getting a movie, Planet Hulk,  after Avengers 2 and then Avengers 3 being his return in a World War Hulk story.

We also know for sure that there is an Ant-Man and Doctor Strange movie coming in phase 3.

Also Chris Pratt, recently in Zero Dark Thirty, has been cast as Star-Lord in Guardians of the Galaxy.
Khaldun
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Reply #1 on: February 05, 2013, 08:46:36 PM

The sourcing on the World War Hulk thing, though, is incredibly thin--it's basically one fanzine making a big deal out of a seemingly off-the-cuff remark by Feige about how they want to use good Marvel stories without getting caught up in continuity bloat, e.g., something like Planet Hulk/World War Hulk would be fun to do if it could be non-bloaty. Still, I can see why they'd think it's the way to go in terms of keeping the Hulk as fun as he was in The Avengers rather than as glum as he was in the Ed Norton Hulk flick.

The Doctor Strange thing isn't absolutely for sure for sure but it's looking pretty good.

I think the fact that they are making Guardians of the Galaxy certainly shows that the whole thing is very unpredictable--that anything could happen, any character might get a flick.
Evildrider
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Reply #2 on: February 05, 2013, 08:57:44 PM

That site has been spot on almost all its Marvel leaks since the get go.  It's the main reason it's getting so much press.  I think the biggest thing that rumor has going for it is that Hulk was easily the biggest fan favorite in Avengers.

Doctor Strange and Ant-Man has been confirmed by Kevin Feige.
Ubvman
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Reply #3 on: February 06, 2013, 01:17:32 AM

I'm disappointed if they go with WW Hulk/Planet Hulk. Kind of looking forward to Thanos and the infinity gems/gauntlet.
Ironwood
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Reply #4 on: February 06, 2013, 04:58:19 AM

They already did that animated Planet Hulk that was rather good.  Why bother with a live action version ?

Especially since Banner has pretty much fuck all to do with it.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Khaldun
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Reply #5 on: February 06, 2013, 06:16:35 AM

I love Doctor Strange so much as a character. He has one of the most distinctive origins and backstories in all of comics, just beneath the pure genius of Batman and Spider-Man's origins. He's about the only superhero I can think of whose origin is basically "depressed middle-aged man who has fucked up his life gets another chance, not because he fell into a radioactive puddle, but because he works hard and takes a leap of faith". He's sort of like the Theoden of super-heroes: midlife crisis melancholic, looking for a chance to be worthy of the moment. If they can keep that clear and intact, I think it could be great.

It also could be the most awful cheese fest of all the Marvel films if they get it wrong. I think they need to go to the fantasy-horror end of things visually--Strange's enemies can't look too much like their bright, spandexy comic-book versions. The upcoming Thor film will tell us a lot about whether they can do the Strange pic well.
Ironwood
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Reply #6 on: February 06, 2013, 06:26:23 AM

Do Strange wrong, though, and you're just retreading Iron Man.

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Khaldun
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Reply #7 on: February 06, 2013, 06:36:37 AM

Yes, though it's interesting--that's really an element of the Iron Man character that developed slowly in the comics and didn't really take hold hard until the first film and Downey's interpretation of the character. Whereas it's built right into Strange's DNA from the outset.

It wouldn't be a Stan Lee/early Marvel character if he wasn't ripping off the pulps in some ways, of course--Strange has definitely elements of Lamont Cranston baked into him, for example.

They almost ought to go the other way from Downey's take on Tony Stark. Tony Stark in the films (and now the comics) is a cocky, super-talented, hedonistic prodigy who is always one step away from a catastrophic fall. Strange opens his story having been the arrogant prodigy who has already long since fallen. So his cinematic character has to be a guy who is so afraid of his own mojo, so gunshy about himself, that he might miss the moment where he has to act without hesitation or regret.

Could make a meeting down the line between Stark and Strange interesting if they get the right actor for the part.
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Reply #8 on: February 06, 2013, 07:04:43 AM

That site has been spot on almost all its Marvel leaks since the get go.  It's the main reason it's getting so much press.  I think the biggest thing that rumor has going for it is that Hulk was easily the biggest fan favorite in Avengers.

The problem you run in to here is pretty often taking a fan-favorite character of an ensemble and making him the centerpiece falls flat.  You realize that it was the interactions that made the character shine, not the character themselves.

Not that it can't be done, but it's quite a risk.  Particularly with the Hulk who's already had two failed films.

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Sir T
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Reply #9 on: February 06, 2013, 09:16:05 AM

I still love the first hulk film, personally. It was cerebral in a way that most hero films were not at the time and arguably laid the foundation for the much more complex films that came after. Stan Lee still says that Hulk got a bum rap. I agree that the ending was a mess but most of the film was wonderful.

That said if they go "Hulk fights space aliens!!" everyone is going to laugh their head off. World War Hulk might have been great fun but it was completely daft.

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Reply #10 on: February 06, 2013, 09:34:46 AM

Could make a meeting down the line between Stark and Strange interesting if they get the right actor for the part.
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Reply #11 on: February 06, 2013, 10:00:27 AM

That said if they go "Hulk fights space aliens!!" everyone is going to laugh their head off. World War Hulk might have been great fun but it was completely daft.

This. It was also terrible. WWHulk was just BAD from the get go. And it was tied to and part of that whole goddamn Skrull Invasion shitpile of a story that was tied to the even bigger steaming shitpile of a story, Civil War. You'd have to be detaching a lot of story tentacles. Not that it couldn't be done, but I'd rather they go another way.

Hutch
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Reply #12 on: February 06, 2013, 10:34:51 AM

Also Chris Pratt, recently in Zero Dark Thirty, has been cast as Star-Lord in Guardians of the Galaxy.

Someone explain, and be as succinct or verbose as you desire, why they are making a movie about Guardians of the Galaxy.

Who at Marvel has got such a hard-on for Guardians of the Galaxy, that they're getting a movie? Much less getting a movie ahead of Dr Strange.

My bewilderment springs from the fact that I used to read Iron Man, Hulk, and Ghost Rider (along with X-Men, the Avengers, and the occasional Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, or Dr Strange story), but the GotG were nowhere to be found during my comic-reading days. I can't see how a GotG movie is going to do well financially. Unless there's an Avengers tie-in, maybe? Who the hell are these people?

Re: Avengers 2 (or 3). I wouldn't mind seeing an Ultron/Vision story. Ultron was a classic Avengers villain. Although they haven't really established his creator in the Marvel Movie Universe just yet.

Edit: punctuation, they are the little marks that use their influence, to help a sentence make more sense
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 10:50:15 AM by Hutch »

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Ironwood
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Reply #13 on: February 06, 2013, 10:39:24 AM

Am I the only one that's scared about Eccleston in the Thor 2 movie ?

Gi Joe was an abortion due to him hamming it up.  Not that it was ever going to be any good, but you understand where I'm coming from.

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sickrubik
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Reply #14 on: February 06, 2013, 10:51:29 AM

Guardians of the Galaxy have always had a really strong cult fanbase.

Keep in mind that it's not an Avengers-like project. The budget will be much smaller.

And there will most likely be an Avengers tie in. Wouldn't be hard with the space stuff. Even if it's minor.

Gi Joe was an abortion due to him hamming it up.  Not that it was ever going to be any good, but you understand where I'm coming from.

Wait... Okay.... wait, no. Eccleston is totally hammy, which can be fun, so I can't really disagree with the comment about him hamming it up.. but THAT is the reason the GI Joe movie sucked? The whole project was terrible.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 10:53:43 AM by sickrubik »

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Khaldun
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Reply #15 on: February 06, 2013, 11:09:11 AM

I think the Guardians film has two reasons:

First, that it's actually drawing on some of Marvel's strongest storytelling in the last decade--while Civil War and all its follow-ons were shitting the bed, Annihilation and the stories that followed it were taut, interesting, and actually had a relatively tight and self-referential continuity. You could enjoy all the MU elements being drawn in but you didn't have to know about the appearance of Galactus in a Thor storyline six years ago, etc., to even have the faintest idea of what was going on. The characters will come to the screen with very few prior expectations even by the fans--you aren't going to have a lot of Rocket Racoon purists unloading fanboy angst in advance of the release. If you can make the character work visually and thematically in a film, everyone will follow along.

Second, this is just my suspicion, but I think the Guardians film is mostly going to be a way to amp up attention and drama for the second Avengers film by letting Thanos rip up and kill a bunch of relatively disposable characters. My guess is that they're looking over the script and deciding if any of the characters have a shot at being genuine favorite "discoveries" like the Hulk was in the first Avengers film. That character(s) will survive the film. Everyone else, I'm thinking, buys the farm. It's the way you make Thanos into a palpable, known threat. If the Guardians don't die in their own film, then the bulk of them will die in Avengers 2--that's even more likely, since they might want to get a bit of fun out of introducing the relatively 'real-world' characters of the Avengers to an angry tree, a laser-blasting racoon, a slinky green alien assassin lady, a dude who calls himself "Star Lord" and a big Hulk-like guy who fights with knives. The Guardians can tell the Avengers or SHIELD about Thanos, have everybody go 'Right, we don't do talking animals' and then freak out when they all get ganked by Thanos or minions thereof. (Blood Brothers would be a good warm-up fight..)

Without the Guardians' film they'd have to introduce Thanos cold in the second Avengers film. (You can't have him pop up as an antagonist in the individual flicks, even Thor's, because he would have to be a threat that none of them can even remotely deal with by themselves). 
Sir T
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Reply #16 on: February 06, 2013, 11:11:19 AM

Well, all you have to do is bring in Squirrel Girl into Thor 2 and problem solved.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

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Reply #17 on: February 06, 2013, 11:20:43 AM

Without the Guardians' film they'd have to introduce Thanos cold in the second Avengers film. (You can't have him pop up as an antagonist in the individual flicks, even Thor's, because he would have to be a threat that none of them can even remotely deal with by themselves). 

I think you're going to see threads of Thanos in all of the individual movies leading up to Avengers. Thor makes sense to have a little more, given it's in SPACE. But a more important reason to doubt that is the great amount of time between the release of Thor 2 and when Avengers 2 will come out, which would be over a year and a half. Guardians fits nicely in that with a release window of 2014.

Somewhere... soemwhere, there is a calendar that looks a lot like the infamous Blizzard calendars that I would love to see more than the Blizzard calendar.

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Merusk
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Reply #18 on: February 06, 2013, 11:47:56 AM

I'm a geek and I have no idea who the fuck GoG are, or that they were even a thing.

It'd better be a damn small budget.

I don't think Squirrel Girl would get any love from the general public. She's too silly, even for me, and I like goofy things.  

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Reply #19 on: February 06, 2013, 12:13:13 PM

I'm a geek and I have no idea who the fuck GoG are, or that they were even a thing.

It's not like "Geek" means you would know everything. I know GoG, but I don't know how to speak Klingon, for instance.

beer geek.
Fordel
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Reply #20 on: February 06, 2013, 02:14:55 PM

KA PLAH!



I only know what the GoG are because they showed up in the Avengers Cartoon for an episode. I have no idea how they intend to make those heroes relevant for a movie. At all.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Khaldun
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Reply #21 on: February 06, 2013, 02:25:22 PM

The GoG they're going with in the film came together to fight a grim galactic war (in which Thanos was an antagonist but not the only one) and then stayed together to be a sort of emergency-reponse Special Forces team dealing with big universal crises. Basically think of them as the space version of the A-Team or the Howling Commandos and you're getting close to the mark. The character breakdown is basically:

Gritty, experienced veteran leader, human: Star-Lord
Han Solo-like wisecracking gunslinger, anthropomorphic animal: Rocket Raccoon
Ninja assassin with a dark past, sexy green lady: Gamora
Hulk-like giant rampaging brute, a giant alien tree: Groot
Riddick like cold killer on a suicide mission: Drax
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Reply #22 on: February 06, 2013, 04:58:33 PM

GoG is being written by James Gunn (Slither and Super - which if you haven't seen either, DO SO). You can bet he will bring something fresh to the story, and it will be humorous but also probably violent. And the Guardians have been around a lot longer than the version that Khaldun brought up. They used to be a more super-hero-ey style cosmic group of heroes. This version does sound right up Gunn's alley though.

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Reply #23 on: February 06, 2013, 05:44:05 PM

They're clearly going to forget all about the earlier Guardians, who are very much a product of an earlier comic-book era. Though the more recent stuff did make an interesting attempt to fold them back into the story eventually via temporal paradoxes and all that stuff.

I think it's fair to say we can expect a much more violent film than Avengers with a very different visual style. I think they're going more "niche" with this one.
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Reply #24 on: February 06, 2013, 06:19:02 PM

I'm a geek and I have no idea who the fuck GoG are, or that they were even a thing.

It's not like "Geek" means you would know everything. I know GoG, but I don't know how to speak Klingon, for instance.

But you know Klingon-speaking is a thing.  Meanwhile the public forgot it was a thing until Big Bang Theory brought it up again.

Not that GoG can't be a good film because the public will have clue "0" about it, but it's not going to be doing Spider Man or Avengers numbers without being a stellar movie.  It's uber-niche, which was my point.

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Evildrider
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Reply #25 on: February 06, 2013, 08:59:59 PM

GoG is probably more about Marvel finding a movie to put a bunch of Thanos information in before hitting Avengers 2.  I mean they basically hunt Thanos whenever possible.  Especially Drax and Gamora who both held infinity gems at one time.  It doesn't look like Iron Man 3 is gonna have much to do with Thanos.  Thor 2 has more of a chance to go that route, but with the addition of Enchantress and Executioner I don't know how much will be put in.
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Reply #26 on: February 07, 2013, 07:01:10 AM

I wouldn't be too surprised if it turns out that Malekith in Thor 2 is working for or connected to Thanos.
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Reply #27 on: February 07, 2013, 09:59:14 AM

In the current Marvel NOW continuity, Iron Man is off to team up with the Guardians. Additionally, images of a "Deep Space Suit" Iron Man got leaked. Now, the Deep Suit thing can be written off to some degree because toys always have weird versions not in the movies.

The Marvel NOW thing, however, is much more interesting. Tying Iron Man into it, even tenuously, would help the exposure greatly. However, Iron Man 3 also comes out in a couple of months, while GoG is still a lot further away.

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rk47
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Reply #28 on: February 07, 2013, 10:24:30 PM

I love Doctor Strange so much as a character. He has one of the most distinctive origins and backstories in all of comics, just beneath the pure genius of Batman and Spider-Man's origins. He's about the only superhero I can think of whose origin is basically "depressed middle-aged man who has fucked up his life gets another chance, not because he fell into a radioactive puddle, but because he works hard and takes a leap of faith". He's sort of like the Theoden of super-heroes: midlife crisis melancholic, looking for a chance to be worthy of the moment. If they can keep that clear and intact, I think it could be great.

It also could be the most awful cheese fest of all the Marvel films if they get it wrong. I think they need to go to the fantasy-horror end of things visually--Strange's enemies can't look too much like their bright, spandexy comic-book versions. The upcoming Thor film will tell us a lot about whether they can do the Strange pic well.


Have you seen their animated take on Strange's Origins?
Painful to watch. Very, very painful.

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Khaldun
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Reply #29 on: February 08, 2013, 06:09:42 AM

Yeah, I didn't like it at all.

Fucking with Strange's origins is like fucking with Spider-Man's or Batman's. It's the one thing about the character that doesn't need any fixing at all.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #30 on: February 16, 2013, 03:44:25 PM

Am I the only one that's scared about Eccleston in the Thor 2 movie ?

Gi Joe was an abortion due to him hamming it up.  Not that it was ever going to be any good, but you understand where I'm coming from.
Depends on which Eccleston was cast.  The manic smiler of the Ninth Doctor, or the misanthropic bastard of Heroes.  Given that he's playing Malekith, it would seem like a chance to chew the scenery in a really memorable way.

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Khaldun
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Reply #31 on: March 06, 2013, 07:22:15 AM

Re: the Planet Hulk/World War Hulk rumor as the post-Avengers 2 direction of these properties:

Joss Whedon said in reply to a query from IGN, "no, that's nonsense".

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2013/03/05/planet-hulk-movie-rumor-whedon-nonsense/
Ironwood
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Reply #32 on: March 06, 2013, 09:29:46 AM

Shocker.

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sickrubik
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Reply #33 on: March 06, 2013, 10:27:01 AM

Eh. Dismissal by someone like Whedon really doesn't give me a CASE CLOSED. Hell, Raimi denied all the time that there was  NO VENOM in his Spidey flick. He even said it was a stupid idea (which it was, ultimately).

beer geek.
eldaec
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Reply #34 on: March 06, 2013, 02:10:56 PM

Planet Hulk is palpably a stupid idea in a way recognisable by studio execs, also it has no obvious sales value. Wheras Venom is only a palpably a stupid idea to someone who has actually read a Spiderman comic.

I'm doubtful we'll see a standalone Hulk movie soon.

I also seriously doubt anyone worth a salary has been wasting their time on potential plots of 2016 movies four years ahead of time.

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