Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 17, 2018, 06:25:49 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
Donate! | Shop: Amazon
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Movies  |  Topic: Marvel Universe (Thar be spoilers ahead.) 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 ... 58 59 [60] 61 62 63 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Marvel Universe (Thar be spoilers ahead.)  (Read 173985 times)
MediumHigh
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1624


WWW
Reply #2065 on: January 16, 2018, 12:28:48 PM

The problem with a black widow movie is that black widow at her core is a rated R character and the rest of marvel is decidedly pg 13. We have a pg 13 take on black widow which is fine because she is with the avengers who are decidedly pg13 but an interesting movie about black widow would be very much about her being her namesake.

Captain Marvel is a surprisingly bad ass character, which before the recent marvel comics nonsense was actually not grating and capable of holding her own. If she is the only prominent lead female character who gets her own movie, it will be worth it. Because she is basically an all american wonder woman without the grating feminist undertones or the nods to very cheesy aspects of early comic books.


If bored and want something to read click here -> http://memiorsofatroll.wordpress.com/
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9686


Reply #2066 on: January 16, 2018, 02:37:20 PM

Captain Marvel, the character who started off as Ms. Marvel, doesn't have feminist undertones? The character who recently has been remembering how her father and the men around her didn't want her to be a military pilot or an astronomer because they didn't think a girl could do that? The character who infamously rebuked the Avengers (and by association, a previous Marvel writer and editor who worked on the Avengers) for letting her get sexually assaulted and not realizing that she had been? The character who has almost always been written with feminist undertones?
Lakov_Sanite
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7587


Reply #2067 on: January 16, 2018, 02:42:49 PM

Oh don't worry, when that movie comes out we'll hear the same dog whistles all over again.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Threash
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8038


Reply #2068 on: January 16, 2018, 02:47:14 PM

Mediumhigh does have a point about Black Widow though, shes a russian assassin that was forcibly sterilized as a teen.  She seduces and kills people. There's no way a PG13 MCU movie can do the character justice. Instead of Atomic Blonde we are going to get Charlie's Angels.

I am the .00000001428%
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9686


Reply #2069 on: January 16, 2018, 03:08:44 PM

There's always a way, but yeah, Black Widow poses complicated challenges. I might note that they've spent two movies thinking seriously about Bucky/The Winter Soldier's violent R-skewing background as a Manchurian Candidate assassin and kept that in bounds.

The Black Widow started as a pretty stereotypical femme fatale with a lot of Stan Lee's especially unsubtle version of Cold War propaganda, but she got interesting in part because they told one story about her again and again: whose side is she really on? Double and triple-agent flips were the thing for her. Was she really in love with any of the superhero men she seduced? Now that's the real thing that's hard to do any longer because it's been done. If they want to do that, they'll have to find a way to make that kind of story fresh again. But you know, the recent run in the comics by Mark Waid was pretty good as far as that goes.
Threash
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8038


Reply #2070 on: January 16, 2018, 03:15:45 PM

She's been part of the team for years now, if they start doing "is she with us or against us" shit now that just wouldn't play well.

I am the .00000001428%
MediumHigh
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1624


WWW
Reply #2071 on: January 16, 2018, 04:04:30 PM

Captain Marvel, the character who started off as Ms. Marvel, doesn't have feminist undertones? The character who recently has been remembering how her father and the men around her didn't want her to be a military pilot or an astronomer because they didn't think a girl could do that? The character who infamously rebuked the Avengers (and by association, a previous Marvel writer and editor who worked on the Avengers) for letting her get sexually assaulted and not realizing that she had been? The character who has almost always been written with feminist undertones?


I'd like her depiction in earth mightiest heroes and her platonic relationship with spider-man. I remember her for taking no shit and being a bad ass.  Relatively speaking a casual look up of her character would register "she a badass of near hulk levels of punch punch to the face face". Almost started reading marvel again when they put her at the for front of the avengers but hmm... some bad writing is them neck of the woods. Almost the cyclops treatment. IE fuck marvel and the way their writer their heroes recently who been around longer than 5 years.


If bored and want something to read click here -> http://memiorsofatroll.wordpress.com/
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 39499

Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you and other troops you control.


WWW
Reply #2072 on: January 16, 2018, 04:44:57 PM

Carol Danvers, in the first issues of her own book as Ms. Marvel (this was in the '70's, she'd appeared pre-Ms. Marvel as an Air Force pilot), was I think the editor in chief of a feminist/women's magazine called Now if I remember correctly. To try to act like the character doesn't have a feminist background is ignorance at its finest.

eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10627


Reply #2073 on: January 16, 2018, 04:45:47 PM

Between Atomic Blonde and the upcoming Jennifer Lawrence movie Red Sparrow I think the hot white chick in a bad wig = superspy genre is a little over saturated.

La femme nikitia, fifth element, resident evil, underworld...


It's a whole genre.

This is all well and good but the MCU had to get to the 20th film before they had a female lead.

So yeah, they do kind of need to make an effort on this. Especially   after Avengers 2 and civil war.



If it takes 20 films to get another generic hot girl action movie then they shouldn't bother.  My point is the genre itself is kind of ridiculous, we don't need a scarjo version of underworld with black widow, captain marvel is the only hope.

I completely agree that if the film is shit they shouldn't make it. But there is no earthly reason it has to be any more generic than the rest of the MCU. Admittedly the rest of the MCU is pretty damn generic, but none the worse for it.

WB somehow managed to make a good Wonder Woman film ffs. There is no reason a Disney Black Widow has to be bad.


"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
MediumHigh
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1624


WWW
Reply #2074 on: January 16, 2018, 04:55:35 PM

Equally no reason it has to be good.  Ohhhhh, I see.

If bored and want something to read click here -> http://memiorsofatroll.wordpress.com/
Threash
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8038


Reply #2075 on: January 16, 2018, 05:14:19 PM

The only thing I know about comic book characters comes from movies and playing Marvel Heroes, and in that Captain Marvel was a badass.

I am the .00000001428%
eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10627


Reply #2076 on: January 17, 2018, 03:12:24 AM

Equally no reason it has to be good.  Ohhhhh, I see.

Sure, but they made Thor work on two out of three tries. So they earned a working assumption from me that it won't be terrible until evidence tells us otherwise.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
jgsugden
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3251


Reply #2077 on: January 17, 2018, 11:30:41 AM

Mediumhigh does have a point about Black Widow though, shes a russian assassin that was forcibly sterilized as a teen.  She seduces and kills people. There's no way a PG13 MCU movie can do the character justice. Instead of Atomic Blonde we are going to get Charlie's Angels.
They had the evil version of Black Widow on Agent Carter.  A Russian Assassin sterilized as a teen that seduced and killed people.  It was one of the better written characters on the show in my opinion - and wasn't Atomic Blonde or Charlie's Angels. 

The Black Widow we see on screen is at least a decade removed from being an assassin.  She has grown quite a bit.  This is unlikely to be an origin story for her set in the past - although it may touch on it.  I'm betting this will be a story where her past comes back to haunt her and we see her have to reconcile her past misdeeds with her current heroic agenda.  Of course, it doesn't really matter what we think as the events of Avengers 3 and 4 will need to be factored in, as well as the ramifications of the Fox deal - so anything could happen.  For all we know, this Black Widow film will introduce Mutants.

What can you tell me about gaming and fun in Charlotte, NC?
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 39499

Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you and other troops you control.


WWW
Reply #2078 on: January 17, 2018, 11:46:28 AM

There's plenty of good material in the last two series of Black Widow books, including the excellent ones done by Nathan Edmonson and Phil Noto and the series by Mark Waid and Chris Samnee. Both had her having to go against SHIELD for various reasons.

jgsugden
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3251


Reply #2079 on: January 17, 2018, 12:06:24 PM

Given where the MCU has been, I'm wondering if they stick Banner into the 'solo' Widow movie. 

What can you tell me about gaming and fun in Charlotte, NC?
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 39499

Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you and other troops you control.


WWW
Reply #2080 on: January 17, 2018, 12:57:32 PM

It looks like that storyline will likely resolve in Infinity War, IMO.

Sir T
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11900


Reply #2081 on: January 17, 2018, 01:01:28 PM

Of course they could "Hail Hydra" her.

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
jgsugden
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3251


Reply #2082 on: January 17, 2018, 02:10:00 PM

It looks like that storyline will likely resolve in Infinity War, IMO.
Do comic book romances ever resolve?  You can break them up, kill them, eliminate their memories, remove them from ever existing, and change their ages - but once a character gets the feelings for another character, they'll eventually come back to it again.  Given what we've seen of Avengers 4 news, I don't think we can assume anything is off the table. 

What can you tell me about gaming and fun in Charlotte, NC?
Hutch
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1892


Reply #2083 on: January 18, 2018, 02:41:16 PM

The dialogue between Banner and Romanov was (IMO) one of the things that could have been cut from Age of Ultron and left behind a better movie. Or at least a shorter one. If we're lucky, the MCU's writers and producers won't push to advance or even revisit this dud of a "romance".

Plant yourself like a tree
Haven't you noticed? We've been sharing our culture with you all morning.
The sun will shine on us again, brother
Lakov_Sanite
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7587


Reply #2084 on: January 18, 2018, 03:05:12 PM

The dialogue between Banner and Romanov was (IMO) one of the things that could have been cut from Age of Ultron and left behind a better movie. Or at least a shorter one. If we're lucky, the MCU's writers and producers won't push to advance or even revisit this dud of a "romance".

Then we never would have gotten one of the best jokes in the MCU in Thor3

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
jgsugden
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3251


Reply #2085 on: January 18, 2018, 04:00:33 PM

I still wonder if Whedon's unadulterated version of that theme would have worked.  The shortened version was offputting and awkward.  If you take the traditional Whedon beats, maybe it would have worked.

What can you tell me about gaming and fun in Charlotte, NC?
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9686


Reply #2086 on: January 18, 2018, 04:51:41 PM

What he was shooting for, I think, was a version of the Black Widow's early comics-schtick: am I really with Iron Man/Hawkeye/Daredevil because I am in love with them or want to have sex with them, or because I'm a secret agent and I think they're potentially useful assets? In this case, it was "Is she just being used to control Banner, or is she actually falling for the guy? Or does she even know any longer?" But yeah, that's a subplot you have to commit to if you want it to go anywhere.
MediumHigh
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1624


WWW
Reply #2087 on: January 18, 2018, 05:55:20 PM

What it looked like to me was a genuine romance between a moronic guy and a hot chick. They haven't played up her secret agent angle at all since iron man 2. Her ability to control the hulk (or more specifically the being able to talk directly to banner through the hulk) was just a caveat. She says upfront that she is into him and he stays clueless and when directly confronted with being with the smartest and sexiest woman in the marvel universe he cowers away. Convinced that he simply can't control himself. Black widow is not given any her comic book nusiance of using people to achieve her ends, she straight up likes this dopey guy because he is dopey.

If bored and want something to read click here -> http://memiorsofatroll.wordpress.com/
Lakov_Sanite
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7587


Reply #2088 on: January 18, 2018, 07:30:46 PM

So this is the backlash we got when reddit closed incels.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Raguel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1157


Reply #2089 on: January 25, 2018, 05:13:46 PM

« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 05:17:16 PM by Raguel »
MediumHigh
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1624


WWW
Reply #2090 on: January 25, 2018, 05:20:23 PM

I really hope that's not the outfit.  Ohhhhh, I see.

If bored and want something to read click here -> http://memiorsofatroll.wordpress.com/
Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 20986


Reply #2091 on: January 25, 2018, 06:44:09 PM

I hope that's just a Kree uniform she's wearing rather than her actual Captain Marvel costume.
Sir T
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11900


Reply #2092 on: January 25, 2018, 07:19:56 PM

Well, that's... green.

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 20986


Reply #2093 on: January 25, 2018, 08:09:46 PM

Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9686


Reply #2094 on: January 25, 2018, 08:29:09 PM

Yeah, that's a Kree outfit. I don't think she'll be in it when she transits to being Captain Marvel for reals.
Raguel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1157


Reply #2095 on: January 25, 2018, 09:04:56 PM

jgsugden
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3251


Reply #2096 on: January 26, 2018, 03:26:44 PM

It was the first suit and I bet she wears it in most of her first adventure - but that we'll see her in her modern outfit in Avengers 4.  I'm still curious how a 90s set adventure for her makes sense - It has to involve time travel, somehow, to get her into Avengers 4.  90s to 2019 - twenty to thirty years .... that was about the timeframe under which Captain America originally 'moved forward' in time and had all of those fish out of water issues.


What can you tell me about gaming and fun in Charlotte, NC?
Raguel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1157


Reply #2097 on: January 26, 2018, 06:57:46 PM

Personally I think it's a bad idea to set the story in the past but whatever.

I'm hoping DeWanda Wise plays Monica and is also sent to the future somehow (or someone older picks up the role in the present).  DRILLING AND MANLINESS
jgsugden
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3251


Reply #2098 on: January 29, 2018, 06:27:10 AM

On a separate note: The Netflix shows will remain with Netflix after Disney streaming comes about.  http://www.techradar.com/news/love-the-netflix-marvel-shows-dont-worry-the-disney-streaming-service-cant-touch-them

What can you tell me about gaming and fun in Charlotte, NC?
schild
Administrator
Posts: 57469


WWW
Reply #2099 on: January 29, 2018, 05:09:58 PM

phew

i was worried disney would care about shitty heroes
Pages: 1 ... 58 59 [60] 61 62 63 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Movies  |  Topic: Marvel Universe (Thar be spoilers ahead.)  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC