NHL 2012 - 2013

[Speedy Cerviche]

It was technically "clean" under normal rules of hitting, but potentially not clean under new anti-headshot rules cuz it was a  predatory high hit on a vulnerable player. Result: player K.O'd by contact to head.

This is exactly what the NHL (and NFL) are trying to get rid of, because it's bad for the sport, and the NHL has the following rule in place to curb it:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=64063

These hits are basically the worst thing in the game atm, and I am glad at the very least Gryba's action his being reviewed and will be given full consideration of judgement whether it qualifies for further discipline under this anti-headshot rule (personally I think so).

[Special J]

Kerry Fraser and TSN does a good job picking it apart:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83qHq-RgEGM

It just got worse for Montreal.  Unless Michel Therrien is playing some games, Pacioretty and Gionta are both out. Playing their home games back to back is the worst thing possible for them.  Carey Price better figure how to play again.


Full disclosure: Senators fan. Go Sens.

[Shannow]

These hits are basically the worst thing in the game atm, and I am glad at the very least Gryba's action his being reviewed and will be given full consideration of judgement whether it qualifies for further discipline under this anti-headshot rule (personally I think so).

I think it should be reviewed by the Shan man but as the TSN guys said, its a legal hit. When you look at it from the backside he hits the body first and clips the head. Didnt leave his skates, didnt raise his elbow...any of that stuff. You dont want to see it but I think it was clean.

Full discolsure: Not a Sens fan. Still ....go Sens go!

[Bunk]

It was a clean hit by the rules, but also one of those hits that you know is going to knock the guy silly - because he didn't see it coming. Eller was lucky he didn't bend down or lean forward just when he took the pass, or it would have been a head shot. That's the problem with those type of hits, its really just luck that determines whether or not its a headshot, because the guy making the hit doesn't have time to change things if the other guy moves the wrong way at the last second.

You really can't put in rules that say the hitter has to make sure the hitee sees him coming. So I agree with Ceryse ( probably for the first time in this thread), they need to look at making the equipment less battering ram like.

[Ceryse]

So I agree with Ceryse

So you are capable of seeing reason! 

But seriously; the equipment is a huge issue in hockey. Its built solely to protect the person wearing it with no concern given for the fact its also used to hit other people. Its a big reason why shoulder hits are causing so much damage, even in normal shoulder to shoulder hits. With the amount of speed and strength behind these hits... and more and more GMs are starting to see the same thing. Alternatives have existed for awhile, as well, which is sad. Its similar to the kevlar socks.. should be mandatory, honestly, but.. they aren't.

[murdoc]

Two game suspension

But the worst news? THE. WORST.

Jay Onrait And Dan O'Toole Are Coming To America.

Even the Prime Minister commented on it:

https://twitter.com/pmharper/status/330406900564901889

[Ceryse]

Two game suspension is a fucking joke. Shanahan has been working hard since he took over to become a laughingstock. his suspensions are similar to just tossing a dart blindfolded. There was a hit earlier this year on Landeskog that saw far more initial contact to the head that got no suspension (and no penalty!).

In my opinion this suspension is due to the fact its a Montreal player and that it looked worse than it was.

[WayAbvPar]

Two game suspension

But the worst news? THE. WORST.

Jay Onrait And Dan O'Toole Are Coming To America.

Even the Prime Minister commented on it:

https://twitter.com/pmharper/status/330406900564901889

If you want to send a message to a guy for a legal hit (but one you understandably want out of the game), 1 game should have been the maximum.

And I couldn't be happier about J&D coming south! I don't get TSN, but I got turned onto their podcast a couple of months ago and am now a huge fan. Hopefully Fox will let them do a new podcast as well.

[murdoc]

I think that time served with his game misconduct and at max, a one game suspension would have been enough.

Yet Dustin Brown still runs around doing stuff like this:

[WayAbvPar]

"He is a team captain just sticking up for his guys! Good Canadian boy and all that. I played with his dad in Juniors..."

Sorry, Don Cherry tackled me and took over my keyboard for a minute.

[Ceryse]

Don Cherry should be legally required to stay at least 100 meters from a camera or microphone. The man has been insane for more than a decade. I'm still surprised a racist bigot like him is still allowed on the air solely because of who he was.

[Speedy Cerviche]

Like I said earlier, you can't just run around drilling people in the head no matter how "legit" it is if they have the puck. Days of Scott Stevens ending careers and getting into hall of hame on "clean" hits are over, headshots in hockey & football are now a serious issue that even transcends pro leagues looking to not be in the bad publicity spotlight; People are pulling their kids out of contact sports because of it. There is rule 48 in the NHL and there is a responsibility on the hitter to NOT take that killshot as much as there is for the target not to put himself in that position.

[01101010]

Like I said earlier, you can't just run around drilling people in the head no matter how "legit" it is if they have the puck. Days of Scott Stevens ending careers and getting into hall of hame on "clean" hits are over, headshots in hockey & football are now a serious issue that even transcends pro leagues looking to not be in the bad publicity spotlight; People are pulling their kids out of contact sports because of it. There is rule 48 in the NHL and there is a responsibility on the hitter to NOT take that killshot as much as there is for the target not to put himself in that position.

Problem is in this situation, the head was never fully hit. The trauma came from his head hitting the ice, not the opposing player.

[Ceryse]

Like I said earlier, you can't just run around drilling people in the head no matter how "legit" it is if they have the puck. Days of Scott Stevens ending careers and getting into hall of hame on "clean" hits are over, headshots in hockey & football are now a serious issue that even transcends pro leagues looking to not be in the bad publicity spotlight; People are pulling their kids out of contact sports because of it. There is rule 48 in the NHL and there is a responsibility on the hitter to NOT take that killshot as much as there is for the target not to put himself in that position.

Except players are continually putting themselves into those positions. I see nothing wrong with the Gryba hit. Eller receives the puck, Gryba is stepping up to deliver the hit, makes clear contact with his hip into the body of Eller. Then, as Eller is in the process of changing his body position and position (watch his skates) it prevents Gryba from hitting fully through the body and the upper portion of his shoulder pad is driven into the lower part of Eller's head, which is clearly, imo, incidental.

Eller bears some responsibility for knowing that he's going to get hit; he's receiving the puck in open ice near his blue line, one of the big, prime areas you are going to get hit. Diaz bears responsibility as he is the one who throws that pass in suhc a way to force his team mate to make a choice; change his body position to receive the pass and be unable to keep his head up, or let it go.

Gryba is merely doing what he's been taught to do, and what he should do 10 times out of 10 in that instance.

Hits by Stevens were different. He would intentionally cut across the ice with the sole purpose of hitting his target as high as possible, as late as possible, with as much elbow and shoulder as possible -- t such extent he often vacated his defensive responsibilities to do so; and when he missed he gave a prime scoring opportunity to the opposition. He was clearly head hunting with intent. None of that is at play in the Gryba hit.

[Shannow]

Diaz should've gotten two games for making a pass with intent to get your forward killed.

Fuck Dustin Brown.  How did the NHL not go back and review that???   Fuck they gave Ference a game for a hit that wasn't whistled.

[Speedy Cerviche]

Problem is in this situation, the head was never fully hit. The trauma came from his head hitting the ice, not the opposing player.

he was KO'd on contact, that's why he didn't move his arms to protect face and broke nose/teeth when he fell onto ice.

Except players are continually putting themselves into those positions. I see nothing wrong with the Gryba hit. Eller receives the puck, Gryba is stepping up to deliver the hit, makes clear contact with his hip into the body of Eller. Then, as Eller is in the process of changing his body position and position (watch his skates) it prevents Gryba from hitting fully through the body and the upper portion of his shoulder pad is driven into the lower part of Eller's head, which is clearly, imo, incidental.

Eller bears some responsibility for knowing that he's going to get hit; he's receiving the puck in open ice near his blue line, one of the big, prime areas you are going to get hit. Diaz bears responsibility as he is the one who throws that pass in suhc a way to force his team mate to make a choice; change his body position to receive the pass and be unable to keep his head up, or let it go.

Gryba is merely doing what he's been taught to do, and what he should do 10 times out of 10 in that instance.

Hits by Stevens were different. He would intentionally cut across the ice with the sole purpose of hitting his target as high as possible, as late as possible, with as much elbow and shoulder as possible -- t such extent he often vacated his defensive responsibilities to do so; and when he missed he gave a prime scoring opportunity to the opposition. He was clearly head hunting with intent. None of that is at play in the Gryba hit.

Watch the NHL.com announcement they explain it pretty clearly what Gryba did wrong. It's not all on Eller, Gryba has responsibility to avoid headshots too, that is difference with rule 48. The league is starting to take this kind of player-killer headshot seriously and that puts an obligation on the hitter NOT to pulverize a guy's head even when the target set himself up on a tee for it; Hit him lower, hit him slower, avoid the headshot at all costs.

[01101010]

I will pleasantly agree to disagree with you completely - since many more egregious hits are not given penalties and not even given a second look. The inconsistency of rulings on this stuff has to be a complete mindfuck for the players. 

[Special J]

Sure is easy to hand 2 games to a bottom pair defenseman.  Can't wait to see Shanahan have to make a difficult decision not based on the depth chart.

[Ceryse]

Watch the NHL.com announcement they explain it pretty clearly what Gryba did wrong. It's not all on Eller, Gryba has responsibility to avoid headshots too, that is difference with rule 48. The league is starting to take this kind of player-killer headshot seriously and that puts an obligation on the hitter NOT to pulverize a guy's head even when the target set himself up on a tee for it; Hit him lower, hit him slower, avoid the headshot at all costs.

While the NHL's decision is final and is something we all have to live by, by no means does it make it the right decision. I've seen the Shanahan video where he goes through the hit and he contradicts himself a couple times in it, as was pointed out during TSN's panel tonight. Players/coaches around the league disagree with Shanahan. Hell, Aaron Ward was extremely displeased with the suspension and went through it explaining why it was not only a poor decision by Shanahan in and of itself, but how it will negatively affect the game and the players in it.

Even in the Shanahan video he clearly says there was zero intent from Gryba to hit the head; and the only reason the suspension was given was because while there was no intent they deemed there to be too much head contact in comparison to the amount of body contact (which is bullshit, imo), but clearly shows that this is not a case of a clear head shot meant to pulverize a guy. As for "avoid the headshot at all costs" you can't. The game is too fast for that. The only way to ensure there are no headshots is to remove body checks from the game -- just based on the size difference of players. Based on your criteria.. guys like Chara can't hit anyone under a certain height because there is no way for Chara to squat low enough not to get head contact on a guy like St. Louis.

In the end, we're going to have to agree to disagree.. but I'll be blunt in that if the NHL continues down the road it is going.. its going to lose a lot of fans; myself included.

And lastly, I don't care if these guys get concussions. I'm sorry, but I don't. They know the risk. They accept the risk. They get paid extremely well to live with the risk and the possible consequences.

And what bothers me the most is most of these injuries, such as Eller, could be drastically reduced in severity and frequency if the NHL just altered equipment. Have you worn full NHL gear? There is a reason why shoulders are destroying people, and often it has very little to do with the guy doing the hitting and more to do with the pads on his shoulders and elbows. They are large and they are hard. Properly modernizing equipment and I doubt Eller's head gets hit at all (even if most of the damage to his head was from slamming into the ice).

[Speedy Cerviche]

Price's dman gets pushed onto him, skate hits him hard on mask. Whistle blown, skates calmly over bench, passes the trainer 2 teeth then calmly skates back to goal.

[Ceryse]

Not a fan of Torres.. but for tonight? The man is a hero.

Pretty good night for me, score-wise... only team I wanted to lose that ended up winning was Montreal. Even the teams in the lesser leagues that I wanted to win did (Barons and Oil Kings). Leave it to Shanahan and Montreal (it is surprisingly hard not to call that city by the nickname it has out here) to spoil a perfectly good day.

[Strazos]

Suspension was bullshit - it was a clean hit. If Eller doesn't spout blood after falling, I doubt we would even be having this conversation.

Also, that poor pass...it's a pass that gets made a lot, but unfortunately Dias didn't see that Eller had a guy bearing down on him.

[Malakili]

I'm surprised this isn't getting more play from  "Why aren't players wearing fucking masks" angle.  I played hockey from the time I was 5 until the end of high school, never once did I feel like my mask obstructed my view.  It isn't only useful for the puck to the face problem, but also high sticks and hits like this.  Someone is going to have to lose an eye on the ice before they do anything I guess.

[Azaroth]

Suspension made no sense.

That said, I apologize for getting cocky about the Penguins earlier in the thread. I had hoped the 2012 attitude was gone. They got out there, got an early lead, and decided they were the '93 Penguins (who could not possibly lose to a lowly Islanders team and uh.. oh, oh god no).

[Ceryse]

That said, I apologize for getting cocky about the Penguins earlier in the thread. I had hoped the 2012 attitude was gone. They got out there, got an early lead, and decided they were the '93 Penguins (who could not possibly lose to a lowly Islanders team and uh.. oh, oh god no).

The Islander win was awesome.

It made me a good chunk of money.

Yes, I was crazy enough to bet on the Islanders.

[01101010]

Watching the Pens shit the bed again in game 3 is bittersweet. I love hearing all the asshats in my neighborhood yell and scream at their TVs. However, I have been a Pens fan since I was a kid - which in the 80s was filled with teasing and torture in grade/middle school.

[Special J]

Fear the wrath of the Walrus. Senators deliver an utter and complete ass-kicking.  On the ice and in the alley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7me3yqWrXp8

Stats you didn't think you'd hear:  The star of each game has had a tooth knocked out.

I love round 1 of the playoffs.  

[Speedy Cerviche]

lol if you gonna lose, lose hard

[Shannow]

Also fuck the refs and their hardons for Sydney Crosby, that was a weak weak call. Go Islanders!

[Shannow]

Fear the wrath of the Walrus. Senators deliver an utter and complete ass-kicking.  On the ice and in the alley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7me3yqWrXp8

Stats you didn't think you'd hear:  The star of each game has had a tooth knocked out.

I love round 1 of the playoffs.  

God bless the Ottawa Senators. SUCK IT CANADIENS.

[murdoc]

One guy waving his arms after a fight is dumb. Two is embarrassing. Three means maybe the other team should have rethought that line brawl. - @downgoesbrown


I can't stop watching this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTk_DE_Crg0

[Ceryse]

Montreal and Vancouver losing like they did? Awesome. San Jose versus Vancouver is a really interesting series because its the two biggest playoff chokes playing off against one another.

Also; Calder Trophy finalists continue the trend of a big general 'wtf?'.

[Bunk]

My first thought after last night's game: I have a party to go to later this month; at least I won't look like a bum with my scraggly playoff beard.

[Speedy Cerviche]

Also; Calder Trophy finalists continue the trend of a big general 'wtf?'.

why? They seem solid to me

[murdoc]

Also; Calder Trophy finalists continue the trend of a big general 'wtf?'.

why? They seem solid to me

Oilers fan so insert Yakupov whine there.  If the season had gone on another 34 games he might have had a point too.

Jonas Brodin should not only be on that list, but win the Calder imo.