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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  MMOG Discussion  |  Eve Online  |  Topic: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see. 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.  (Read 12862 times)
Kitsune
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on: December 06, 2012, 12:23:07 PM

*cricket chirp*

Has CCP's new professed love for frigates and cruisers actually given them a useful role, or is it still go battleship or go home in bigger fights?

And did T2 and faction variants of the newly-buffed ships receive similar boosts, or did their lead over the newly-buffed T1s diminish?

Did destroyers stop sucking?
Fordel
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Reply #1 on: December 06, 2012, 02:32:05 PM

Destroyers are awesome!

At collecting loot cans  why so serious?

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Lantyssa
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Reply #2 on: December 06, 2012, 02:33:03 PM

I deleted the e-mail as soon as it came in.  Didn't even read it to see what was up.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Sir T
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Reply #3 on: December 06, 2012, 03:20:26 PM

I got the email but didn't even read it, nor remember even receiving it to be honest.

I read through the ship balancing just now and gave a very large verdict of meh.

Be principled, but not too principled.
Kitsune
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Posts: 2400


Reply #4 on: December 06, 2012, 05:07:38 PM

Seeing the Arbitrator and Omen getting a 25 and 30 percent speed boost, extra lowslot, boosted defenses, and an actual decent drone bay on the Omen did make me mildly erect, I have to admit, as those are my two favorite cruisers.  Add in the new logistics bonuses on the old mining cruisers and you can actually field a T1 cruiser fleet with all of its bases covered where you used to require T2 stuff.

However, I'm still strongly suspecting that my long-standing hopes of it being viable to wolfpack around in cheap cruisers and have a prayer of taking down battleships or even battlecruisers are not going to come to fruition from those buffs.
ajax34i
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Reply #5 on: December 06, 2012, 07:47:14 PM

I resubbed to check it out.

T1 ships (frigs, destroyers, cruisers) got a boost in that they are not tiered anymore (all frigates about the same 45 power grid for example), but are instead bonused for ewar, or speed, or tanking (with resists), or exploration.  Neither the bigger ships nor the T2 variants got changed yet.  And we're currently finding out the unannounced changes, such as the fact that it takes more minerals (in some cases 5x?) to manufacture these rebalanced frigates and cruisers.

Otherwise, everyone is complaining about drones being useless because of the new AI for mission rats, and about losing ships on L4 missions.  They just posted a blog about the effect of the mining barge revamp; everybody appears to have switched from Hulks to the barge with the 20k ore hold and only slightly less yield.  And people are placing bounties on everyone they see, causing lots of tears on the forums with PVE'ers bemoaning that they can no longer undock because of the bounty.  Flagging/aggression system has changed, bounty system is new, there's a lot of confusion cause people don't read the forums/blogs.

They're pushing out a patch every day to fix the bugs, and sometimes they screw up.  For example, implants weren't applying their effect after a clone jump, "fixed" now so if you go from a no-implant clone to a +4 implant clone, your skills take longer to train (relog doesn't fix it).  Oh yeah, and the music; they took out the jukebox and implemented environmental / activity tunes.  Miners are complaining that now they hear the same song over and over, and it's a crappy one.  Pretty hilarious.

EDIT:  Kitsune - stronger ECM, dampeners, and tracking disruption (the T1 frigs and cruisers specialized for ewar got buffed with new role bonuses) - might make it possible.  Also, likely to get rather large bounties when killing said battleships, cause everyone's throwing bounties on everyone else currently.  Top 10 character bounties are in the 3 bil to 14 bil range; top 10 corps 1-5 bil, top 10 alliances 1-5 bil.  You kill one guy you get the value of his ship x 3, depending on his corp/alliance membership.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 07:59:24 PM by ajax34i »
Kitsune
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Reply #6 on: December 06, 2012, 07:54:19 PM

Good to hear that CCP is exactly how I remember it!   awesome, for real
Kageru
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Reply #7 on: December 06, 2012, 10:59:13 PM


I get somewhat tempted by the idea of flying around in a frigate, love the idea of fast small boats, and then I remember it's Eve and the gameplay hasn't changed.

Is a man not entitled to the hurf of his durf?
- Simond
Kitsune
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Reply #8 on: December 07, 2012, 01:07:42 AM

It's a shame, because I'd just love to see one of those hundred+ ship fleets comprised of something other than battleships and still being effective.  The occasional Drake or Tengu fleet is interesting, but really not the same as a dedicated cruiser fleet.
tgr
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Just another victim of cyber age discrimination.


Reply #9 on: December 07, 2012, 02:11:17 AM

Ahacs are also a pretty good at countering our alpha fleets, as long as the alphafleet doesn't have enough huginns.

As for the mineral changes, this has been well known by a lot of people well before the patch hit tranquility, I've personally made at least 50% on the first batch of cruisers, and I've still got a 2nd batch of cruisers coming out of the cooker in 26 days or so.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Kitsune
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Reply #10 on: December 07, 2012, 02:22:17 AM

Given that a properly fit AHAC can cost more than a battleship, I'm not really considering them to be in the same ballpark as rolling out in T1s.  At that point you may's well just have a Tengufleet.
tgr
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Just another victim of cyber age discrimination.


Reply #11 on: December 07, 2012, 03:22:48 AM

Thing is, though, I've repeatedly seen a full fleet of BSes get facerolled by ahacs. And, unless I'm wrong, T3s are more cockstabby to build than ahacs. I haven't built T3s, so I'm basing my assumption there on the fact you build the hull and the subsystems and put them all together.

And, of course, there's the whole subsystem skill loss, which makes ahacs a better choice from that POV, and the fact that ahacs are, last I checked, vastly cheaper than T3s.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Kitsune
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Reply #12 on: December 07, 2012, 12:31:03 PM

Thing is, though, I've repeatedly seen a full fleet of BSes get facerolled by ahacs. And, unless I'm wrong, T3s are more cockstabby to build than ahacs. I haven't built T3s, so I'm basing my assumption there on the fact you build the hull and the subsystems and put them all together.

And, of course, there's the whole subsystem skill loss, which makes ahacs a better choice from that POV, and the fact that ahacs are, last I checked, vastly cheaper than T3s.

T3 hulls weren't (a year ago) particularly expensive.  Most of the actual cost of flying one was the fact that their owners were loath to undock in them without faction/deadspace equipment out the ass because they were min/maxing to insane degrees.  If you just loaded them with T2 fittings, they were closer to a fleet AHAC, pricewise.  But yes, constructing T3 stuff is an insane complicated bitch to do.  I skilled up my industrial alt with an eye towards moving her into a wormhole to do just that.
ajax34i
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Reply #13 on: December 07, 2012, 02:57:50 PM

In other news the Devs seem to have resurrected the live events; they've created a forum where they're announcing things, they've set up in-game mails on NPC's for players to contact, and are forming dev fleets and raiding player space (they say this will be a regular occurrence).
Fordel
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Posts: 8292


Reply #14 on: December 07, 2012, 03:36:39 PM

Wait they removed the jukebox?


Why?

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
tgr
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Just another victim of cyber age discrimination.


Reply #15 on: December 07, 2012, 04:03:04 PM

EVE had sound? Ohhhhh, I see.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
ajax34i
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Reply #16 on: December 07, 2012, 08:22:50 PM

They (T0rfiFrans) removed the jukebox and coded situational music that changes depending on what you're doing, where you are, entering/exiting combat, etc.   They also released the sound tracks, but in-game the music is now chopped up into intros and extros so that it transitions smoothly as you go through gates or switch activities or whatever.  People immediately asked if they could save processor power by sliding the music volume to 0, and quite a few quoted the "eve has sound?" meme, which deflated CCP RealX quite a bit.  CCP is posting a lot on the official boards, so he appeared, made frowny face, promised to look into an actual "disable music" checkbox, and disappeared.

It's badly implemented in two obvious ways:

- If you're just doing one activity in one spot, like mining or ship spinnning, you only hear one song over and over.
- If you have multiple clients going (and who doesn't), you hear multiple music tracks, overlapping.  Volume controls apparently affect all clients at once, rather than individually.  Either that or people are too lazy to go slide down the volume in the off-client.

They also have new weapons and explosion sounds (graphics too), and the interface zooms the camera (and sound) about smoothly rather than suddenly.  Target reticules are different, notification texts are movable, etc., they've done some UI improvements.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 08:40:30 PM by ajax34i »
ajax34i
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Reply #17 on: December 07, 2012, 08:57:04 PM

This is a few days old news, but penifSmash re-activated his account briefly, too.
Brolan
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Reply #18 on: December 08, 2012, 09:18:33 AM

I just assumed everyone else did what I did.  After 5 minutes of Eve "music" I turned it off and never turned it on again.  I got my own tunes.
Numtini
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Reply #19 on: December 08, 2012, 05:49:15 PM

The music was actually pretty good, but I turned it off anyway. Too distracting.

So people are using the bounty system to grief carebears or is it working as intended?

Of all the games I've played, this is the only one I ever miss. I still don't think I have the time to play, but I do miss it.

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
ajax34i
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Reply #20 on: December 09, 2012, 06:41:21 AM

So people are using the bounty system to grief carebears or is it working as intended?

Yes.

From the players' point of view, it's awesome to bounty freighter pilots, general haulers, afk miners, etc., as it modifies their suicide gank worth it / not worth it ratio.  If you can get a hold of a kill right on a freighter pilot, ho boy, free attack AND bounty?  Icing on the cake.

From CCP's point of view, the fact that we're bountying each other like crazy (some people do it if you speak in the newbie channel or in any channel) is awesome, as billions of ISK get locked into character bounties for characters that will never undock (trader alts) or never fly big ships and thus will reasonably never be PVP'd to pay out their bounty.
Reg
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Reply #21 on: December 09, 2012, 10:46:33 AM

How do the bounties work? Are they instantaneous or do they take 24 hours to take effect, like a wardec?
tgr
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Just another victim of cyber age discrimination.


Reply #22 on: December 09, 2012, 11:01:23 AM

The guy (and his fleetmates) who gets the final blow gets 20% of the value of his hull, mods and cargo. And it's available the instant it's put on the guy.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
ajax34i
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Reply #23 on: December 09, 2012, 11:15:13 AM

So you can put a huge bounty on someone, but the bounty-hunters are only getting bite-sized chunks proportional to the value of the destroyed hull, and the bounty doesn't negate Concord response.  However if you manage to buy a kill right from someone and activate it on the target, he's flagged free-for-all for 15 min.  Considering who's likely to be generating kill rights, that's a way to disrupt a suicide gank gatecamp long enough to get a freighter through, but the carebears haven't quite thought that out yet (not seeing any suiciders complaining on the forums).
tgr
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Just another victim of cyber age discrimination.


Reply #24 on: December 09, 2012, 12:23:55 PM

Suicide gankers likely aren't impacted much by killrights in and of themselves, it's more the fact that looting someone else's wreck means you're flagged as a suspect, i.e. you may be able to gank the freighter, but getting off with the loot is more the suicide ganking nerf of retribution.

How effective either aspect of this is, however, is yet to be seen, I think. There are ways to circumvent all of the issues.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
ajax34i
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Reply #25 on: December 09, 2012, 04:29:55 PM

That should provide a way to get rid of the vultures, though.  I imagine a gank team that's organized and has brought enough people to take down a freighter would be able to have enough firepower in the field to deal with the suspect flag, and being able to kill the solo vultures is a boon.

In other news, CSM Chairman Seleene of PL is going to champion an "Add Bounty" button for the forums, next week at the meeting with CCP.
Comstar
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WWW
Reply #26 on: December 10, 2012, 12:53:59 AM

Could an alliance offer bounties on enemy fleet members before engaging them in 0.0? Or just put a bounty on everyone in a hostile allence and encourage their members to go roaming and make money "ratting".

Defending the Galaxy, from the Scum of the Universe, with nothing but a flashlight and a tshirt. We need tanks Boo, lots of tanks!
tgr
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Just another victim of cyber age discrimination.


Reply #27 on: December 10, 2012, 01:39:54 AM

Yup. You can set bounties on people, corps and alliances, and iirc the bounty system doesn't care much for where the kill happens.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Kageru
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Reply #28 on: December 10, 2012, 06:07:12 AM


How did they solve the problem of the target allowing his friends to kill him and share the bounty?

... somewhat tempted to resub just to put a bounty on boat.

Is a man not entitled to the hurf of his durf?
- Simond
tgr
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Just another victim of cyber age discrimination.


Reply #29 on: December 10, 2012, 06:57:09 AM

Which problem? The only problem was if someone got a bounty on themselves and undocked in an ibis and collected all of it. Now they would have to undock in something 5x as expensive as the bounty to get rid of it, at which point they could of course just put on another bounty.

Honestly, bounties would only be a "problem" in hisec, where the gank/not gank is dependent on how much isk you can get out of it afterwards. In this scenario the bounties are actually a buff in a roundabout way.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Kageru
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Reply #30 on: December 10, 2012, 07:20:38 AM


Before I played Eve there was a bounty system that got pulled. If the current bounty system payout caps at 20% of ship value that would be how they fixed it.

Is a man not entitled to the hurf of his durf?
- Simond
tgr
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Just another victim of cyber age discrimination.


Reply #31 on: December 10, 2012, 07:54:21 AM

That's 20% of the value of his hull, mods and cargo, and maybe even his pod.

Oh, I almost forgot, if there's a bounty on the person, the corp and the alliance he's in, it's paid out thrice, so that's 20% of his value 3 times. I think that'll make fleet fights a bit more lucrative for a few people...

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
ajax34i
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Reply #32 on: December 10, 2012, 09:18:18 AM

Yeah each payout is capped at 20% of destroyed value.  The pod is a different kill from the ship, so you get another chunk based on the implants.  I believe that the flagging system has been changed so once you're flagged, the pod is fair game too.  Once engaged, you can defend yourself all the way to podding the attacker; the engagement timer lasts 15 min (from last shot) and Concord won't intervene. 

Stealing from cans flags you as suspect (free for all to attack you), if the miner steals back from your can that's ok because you're a suspect with no rights.  So if you want to can flip (to bait the miner), you have to steal, pass it to alt, and alt can create the new jetcan.  But nobody jetcans anymore because of the new mining barges with 20k ore hold.
Sir T
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Reply #33 on: December 10, 2012, 01:39:44 PM

In other news, CSM Chairman Seleene of PL is going to champion an "Add Bounty" button for the forums, next week at the meeting with CCP.

Yep because putting bounties on alts that were created (Some by members of his own side and corporation! NOOO) just for the purpose of shitting on forums will really hurt the problem of the eve forums been looked at by the patrons of Mos Eisely cantina as being the residence of the  scum of humanity.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 01:48:38 PM by Sir T »

Be principled, but not too principled.
Pezzle
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Reply #34 on: December 10, 2012, 07:01:50 PM

They buffed the Arbi?  Damn, that will make Clavius happy.  If he is still playing.  That guy was incredible with those things. 
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