f13.net

f13.net General Forums => Eve Online => Topic started by: Kitsune on December 06, 2012, 11:23:07 AM



Title: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Kitsune on December 06, 2012, 11:23:07 AM
*cricket chirp*

Has CCP's new professed love for frigates and cruisers actually given them a useful role, or is it still go battleship or go home in bigger fights?

And did T2 and faction variants of the newly-buffed ships receive similar boosts, or did their lead over the newly-buffed T1s diminish?

Did destroyers stop sucking?


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Fordel on December 06, 2012, 01:32:05 PM
Destroyers are awesome!

At collecting loot cans  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Lantyssa on December 06, 2012, 01:33:03 PM
I deleted the e-mail as soon as it came in.  Didn't even read it to see what was up.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Sir T on December 06, 2012, 02:20:26 PM
I got the email but didn't even read it, nor remember even receiving it to be honest.

I read through the ship balancing just now and gave a very large verdict of meh.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Kitsune on December 06, 2012, 04:07:38 PM
Seeing the Arbitrator and Omen getting a 25 and 30 percent speed boost, extra lowslot, boosted defenses, and an actual decent drone bay on the Omen did make me mildly erect, I have to admit, as those are my two favorite cruisers.  Add in the new logistics bonuses on the old mining cruisers and you can actually field a T1 cruiser fleet with all of its bases covered where you used to require T2 stuff.

However, I'm still strongly suspecting that my long-standing hopes of it being viable to wolfpack around in cheap cruisers and have a prayer of taking down battleships or even battlecruisers are not going to come to fruition from those buffs.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: ajax34i on December 06, 2012, 06:47:14 PM
I resubbed to check it out.

T1 ships (frigs, destroyers, cruisers) got a boost in that they are not tiered anymore (all frigates about the same 45 power grid for example), but are instead bonused for ewar, or speed, or tanking (with resists), or exploration.  Neither the bigger ships nor the T2 variants got changed yet.  And we're currently finding out the unannounced changes, such as the fact that it takes more minerals (in some cases 5x?) to manufacture these rebalanced frigates and cruisers.

Otherwise, everyone is complaining about drones being useless because of the new AI for mission rats, and about losing ships on L4 missions.  They just posted a blog about the effect of the mining barge revamp; everybody appears to have switched from Hulks to the barge with the 20k ore hold and only slightly less yield.  And people are placing bounties on everyone they see, causing lots of tears on the forums with PVE'ers bemoaning that they can no longer undock because of the bounty.  Flagging/aggression system has changed, bounty system is new, there's a lot of confusion cause people don't read the forums/blogs.

They're pushing out a patch every day to fix the bugs, and sometimes they screw up.  For example, implants weren't applying their effect after a clone jump, "fixed" now so if you go from a no-implant clone to a +4 implant clone, your skills take longer to train (relog doesn't fix it).  Oh yeah, and the music; they took out the jukebox and implemented environmental / activity tunes.  Miners are complaining that now they hear the same song over and over, and it's a crappy one.  Pretty hilarious.

EDIT:  Kitsune - stronger ECM, dampeners, and tracking disruption (the T1 frigs and cruisers specialized for ewar got buffed with new role bonuses) - might make it possible.  Also, likely to get rather large bounties when killing said battleships, cause everyone's throwing bounties on everyone else currently.  Top 10 character bounties are in the 3 bil to 14 bil range; top 10 corps 1-5 bil, top 10 alliances 1-5 bil.  You kill one guy you get the value of his ship x 3, depending on his corp/alliance membership.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Kitsune on December 06, 2012, 06:54:19 PM
Good to hear that CCP is exactly how I remember it!   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Kageru on December 06, 2012, 09:59:13 PM

I get somewhat tempted by the idea of flying around in a frigate, love the idea of fast small boats, and then I remember it's Eve and the gameplay hasn't changed.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Kitsune on December 07, 2012, 12:07:42 AM
It's a shame, because I'd just love to see one of those hundred+ ship fleets comprised of something other than battleships and still being effective.  The occasional Drake or Tengu fleet is interesting, but really not the same as a dedicated cruiser fleet.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: tgr on December 07, 2012, 01:11:17 AM
Ahacs are also a pretty good at countering our alpha fleets, as long as the alphafleet doesn't have enough huginns.

As for the mineral changes, this has been well known by a lot of people well before the patch hit tranquility, I've personally made at least 50% on the first batch of cruisers, and I've still got a 2nd batch of cruisers coming out of the cooker in 26 days or so.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Kitsune on December 07, 2012, 01:22:17 AM
Given that a properly fit AHAC can cost more than a battleship, I'm not really considering them to be in the same ballpark as rolling out in T1s.  At that point you may's well just have a Tengufleet.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: tgr on December 07, 2012, 02:22:48 AM
Thing is, though, I've repeatedly seen a full fleet of BSes get facerolled by ahacs. And, unless I'm wrong, T3s are more cockstabby to build than ahacs. I haven't built T3s, so I'm basing my assumption there on the fact you build the hull and the subsystems and put them all together.

And, of course, there's the whole subsystem skill loss, which makes ahacs a better choice from that POV, and the fact that ahacs are, last I checked, vastly cheaper than T3s.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Kitsune on December 07, 2012, 11:31:03 AM
Thing is, though, I've repeatedly seen a full fleet of BSes get facerolled by ahacs. And, unless I'm wrong, T3s are more cockstabby to build than ahacs. I haven't built T3s, so I'm basing my assumption there on the fact you build the hull and the subsystems and put them all together.

And, of course, there's the whole subsystem skill loss, which makes ahacs a better choice from that POV, and the fact that ahacs are, last I checked, vastly cheaper than T3s.

T3 hulls weren't (a year ago) particularly expensive.  Most of the actual cost of flying one was the fact that their owners were loath to undock in them without faction/deadspace equipment out the ass because they were min/maxing to insane degrees.  If you just loaded them with T2 fittings, they were closer to a fleet AHAC, pricewise.  But yes, constructing T3 stuff is an insane complicated bitch to do.  I skilled up my industrial alt with an eye towards moving her into a wormhole to do just that.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: ajax34i on December 07, 2012, 01:57:50 PM
In other news the Devs seem to have resurrected the live events; they've created a forum where they're announcing things, they've set up in-game mails on NPC's for players to contact, and are forming dev fleets and raiding player space (they say this will be a regular occurrence).


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Fordel on December 07, 2012, 02:36:39 PM
Wait they removed the jukebox?


Why?


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: tgr on December 07, 2012, 03:03:04 PM
EVE had sound? :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: ajax34i on December 07, 2012, 07:22:50 PM
They (T0rfiFrans (http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73569)) removed the jukebox and coded situational music that changes depending on what you're doing, where you are, entering/exiting combat, etc.   They also released the sound tracks (https://soundcloud.com/#ccpgames/sets/eve-online-in-game-tracks), but in-game the music is now chopped up into intros and extros so that it transitions smoothly as you go through gates or switch activities or whatever.  People immediately asked if they could save processor power by sliding the music volume to 0, and quite a few quoted the "eve has sound?" meme, which deflated CCP RealX quite a bit.  CCP is posting a lot on the official boards, so he appeared (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2262873#post2262873), made frowny face, promised to look into an actual "disable music" checkbox, and disappeared.

It's badly implemented in two obvious ways:

- If you're just doing one activity in one spot, like mining or ship spinnning, you only hear one song over and over.
- If you have multiple clients going (and who doesn't), you hear multiple music tracks, overlapping.  Volume controls apparently affect all clients at once, rather than individually.  Either that or people are too lazy to go slide down the volume in the off-client.

They also have new weapons and explosion sounds (graphics too), and the interface zooms the camera (and sound) about smoothly rather than suddenly.  Target reticules are different, notification texts are movable, etc., they've done some UI improvements.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: ajax34i on December 07, 2012, 07:57:04 PM
This is a few days old news, but penifSmash re-activated his account briefly, too (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=177602&find=unread).


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Brolan on December 08, 2012, 08:18:33 AM
I just assumed everyone else did what I did.  After 5 minutes of Eve "music" I turned it off and never turned it on again.  I got my own tunes.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Numtini on December 08, 2012, 04:49:15 PM
The music was actually pretty good, but I turned it off anyway. Too distracting.

So people are using the bounty system to grief carebears or is it working as intended?

Of all the games I've played, this is the only one I ever miss. I still don't think I have the time to play, but I do miss it.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: ajax34i on December 09, 2012, 05:41:21 AM
So people are using the bounty system to grief carebears or is it working as intended?

Yes.

From the players' point of view, it's awesome to bounty freighter pilots, general haulers, afk miners, etc., as it modifies their suicide gank worth it / not worth it ratio.  If you can get a hold of a kill right on a freighter pilot, ho boy, free attack AND bounty?  Icing on the cake.

From CCP's point of view, the fact that we're bountying each other like crazy (some people do it if you speak in the newbie channel or in any channel) is awesome, as billions of ISK get locked into character bounties for characters that will never undock (trader alts) or never fly big ships and thus will reasonably never be PVP'd to pay out their bounty.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Reg on December 09, 2012, 09:46:33 AM
How do the bounties work? Are they instantaneous or do they take 24 hours to take effect, like a wardec?


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: tgr on December 09, 2012, 10:01:23 AM
The guy (and his fleetmates) who gets the final blow gets 20% of the value of his hull, mods and cargo. And it's available the instant it's put on the guy.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: ajax34i on December 09, 2012, 10:15:13 AM
So you can put a huge bounty on someone, but the bounty-hunters are only getting bite-sized chunks proportional to the value of the destroyed hull, and the bounty doesn't negate Concord response.  However if you manage to buy a kill right from someone and activate it on the target, he's flagged free-for-all for 15 min.  Considering who's likely to be generating kill rights, that's a way to disrupt a suicide gank gatecamp long enough to get a freighter through, but the carebears haven't quite thought that out yet (not seeing any suiciders complaining on the forums).


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: tgr on December 09, 2012, 11:23:55 AM
Suicide gankers likely aren't impacted much by killrights in and of themselves, it's more the fact that looting someone else's wreck means you're flagged as a suspect, i.e. you may be able to gank the freighter, but getting off with the loot is more the suicide ganking nerf of retribution.

How effective either aspect of this is, however, is yet to be seen, I think. There are ways to circumvent all of the issues.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: ajax34i on December 09, 2012, 03:29:55 PM
That should provide a way to get rid of the vultures, though.  I imagine a gank team that's organized and has brought enough people to take down a freighter would be able to have enough firepower in the field to deal with the suspect flag, and being able to kill the solo vultures is a boon.

In other news, CSM Chairman Seleene of PL is going to champion an "Add Bounty" button for the forums (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2296332#post2296332), next week at the meeting with CCP.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Comstar on December 09, 2012, 11:53:59 PM
Could an alliance offer bounties on enemy fleet members before engaging them in 0.0? Or just put a bounty on everyone in a hostile allence and encourage their members to go roaming and make money "ratting".


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: tgr on December 10, 2012, 12:39:54 AM
Yup. You can set bounties on people, corps and alliances, and iirc the bounty system doesn't care much for where the kill happens.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Kageru on December 10, 2012, 05:07:12 AM

How did they solve the problem of the target allowing his friends to kill him and share the bounty?

... somewhat tempted to resub just to put a bounty on boat.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: tgr on December 10, 2012, 05:57:09 AM
Which problem? The only problem was if someone got a bounty on themselves and undocked in an ibis and collected all of it. Now they would have to undock in something 5x as expensive as the bounty to get rid of it, at which point they could of course just put on another bounty.

Honestly, bounties would only be a "problem" in hisec, where the gank/not gank is dependent on how much isk you can get out of it afterwards. In this scenario the bounties are actually a buff in a roundabout way.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Kageru on December 10, 2012, 06:20:38 AM

Before I played Eve there was a bounty system that got pulled. If the current bounty system payout caps at 20% of ship value that would be how they fixed it.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: tgr on December 10, 2012, 06:54:21 AM
That's 20% of the value of his hull, mods and cargo, and maybe even his pod.

Oh, I almost forgot, if there's a bounty on the person, the corp and the alliance he's in, it's paid out thrice, so that's 20% of his value 3 times. I think that'll make fleet fights a bit more lucrative for a few people...


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: ajax34i on December 10, 2012, 08:18:18 AM
Yeah each payout is capped at 20% of destroyed value.  The pod is a different kill from the ship, so you get another chunk based on the implants.  I believe that the flagging system has been changed so once you're flagged, the pod is fair game too.  Once engaged, you can defend yourself all the way to podding the attacker; the engagement timer lasts 15 min (from last shot) and Concord won't intervene. 

Stealing from cans flags you as suspect (free for all to attack you), if the miner steals back from your can that's ok because you're a suspect with no rights.  So if you want to can flip (to bait the miner), you have to steal, pass it to alt, and alt can create the new jetcan.  But nobody jetcans anymore because of the new mining barges with 20k ore hold.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Sir T on December 10, 2012, 12:39:44 PM
In other news, CSM Chairman Seleene of PL is going to champion an "Add Bounty" button for the forums (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2296332#post2296332), next week at the meeting with CCP.

Yep because putting bounties on alts that were created (Some by members of his own side and corporation! NOOO) just for the purpose of shitting on forums will really hurt the problem of the eve forums been looked at by the patrons of Mos Eisely cantina as being the residence of the  scum of humanity.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Pezzle on December 10, 2012, 06:01:50 PM
They buffed the Arbi?  Damn, that will make Clavius happy.  If he is still playing.  That guy was incredible with those things. 


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Ingmar on December 18, 2012, 05:54:02 PM

I get somewhat tempted by the idea of flying around in a frigate, love the idea of fast small boats, and then I remember it's Eve and the gameplay hasn't changed.

Every time I think about trying it again, I remember how slow the damn frigates feel, and that everything else is even slower.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: ajax34i on December 19, 2012, 03:29:18 AM
EVE Retribution expansion trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX0p0irEOls) (for reference)
Holiday Celebration trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxlvsXekP2A)


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: eldaec on December 21, 2012, 04:01:36 PM
There are faster and twitchier things than frigates.

Interceptors and Interdictors specifically.

Roaming PvP usually involves cruiser sized ships. They feel pretty fast in a PvP context.

But any amount of pve in eve will feel slow.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: calapine on December 26, 2012, 06:10:03 PM
*points at new, improved face*

Is anyone here still playing this?

I finally gave in and reactivated all of my 3 accounts and started training again. Bit unsure what to do next, probably sticking with my first and only corp...


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Setanta on December 26, 2012, 08:15:58 PM
I have two accounts subbed and training but only really doing L4s and not leaving hisec.

The game, for all its shinies, feels stale and needs a kick in the arse. I really need to check my PvP pilot in with BC again, but I'm worried I'll lose interest fast in the game.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Comstar on December 27, 2012, 05:10:41 AM
I keeep waiting for some drama to start to make it interesting to come back, but I havn't heard of much.

TEST putting a corp into IRC to defend it from Razor might do it, but I doubt it.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Kageru on December 27, 2012, 07:56:51 AM

The idea of goon moon-time actually being important in the latest sov fight was mildly motivating.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: calapine on December 27, 2012, 02:07:19 PM
Thanks.

Logging is very weird. On one hand I feel the old addiction somehow, on the other hand I feel lost and out of place. Eve always was a 'game' I played because of the people I played it with, after being away for more than a year that is all gone.  :sad:

Palmer suggested I apply for Bat Country, but you people are Goon-turds. The villains of Eve.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Sir T on December 27, 2012, 02:21:07 PM
I would second the motion for you going to bat country if you want to enjoy Eve again. Goons are a good community if a bit self devouring, and the guys in BC are first class people and players. Eve really is the people you play with. The game simply is not good enough to be enjoyable on its own.

That said the most fun I had playing eve the last time I tried it was the hour I spent designing this avatar

<--



Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Phildo on December 27, 2012, 05:51:57 PM
Eve needs a bad guy or it gets boring fast.  Might as well be us.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Gets on December 28, 2012, 10:23:04 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQQdyOuX2OY

Sov changes of 2012.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Lantyssa on December 28, 2012, 10:48:06 AM
I wish EVE was as exciting as that music.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Sir T on December 28, 2012, 11:07:41 AM
Yeah tell me about it. Watching that gave me an urge to go back to eve... but then I remembered that is the sun total of long hours of sitting with staring at an empty screen listening to idiots bicker and with nothing happening but lag. Thanks but...


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Pezzle on December 28, 2012, 11:57:42 PM
Wow, CVA is running Providence again?  Taking that region was a high point.  I might still have a video of the last UK tower being destroyed.  How CVA keep going after all these changes I cannot fathom.  It is entirely possible that they is totally different.  I think about going back.  Then I remember.  There ain't no going back, this is the really real world. 


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Kitsune on December 30, 2012, 12:19:35 AM
As far as I can tell, CVA waited for the other nullsec powers to get bored and/or preoccupied with bigger fish, then quietly moved back in.  I never got the impression that their return was based on any sort of rousing military victory.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Korachia on December 30, 2012, 10:49:15 AM
Persistency and endurance is often greater strenghts longterm then pure mass.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Gets on December 31, 2012, 02:55:40 AM
Bye -A-


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Sir T on December 31, 2012, 09:08:57 AM
Again?


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Phildo on December 31, 2012, 02:09:07 PM
Please provide context so I don't spend the next two hours looking for it.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: tgr on December 31, 2012, 04:01:12 PM
(http://chart.googleapis.com/chart?chm=B,D5DF3D44,0,1,0&chf=bg,s,FFFFFF00&cht=lc&chs=230x160&chls=2&chco=D5DF3D&chg=14.89,25,1,5,10.64&chds=0,4000&chxt=x,y&chxl=0:|26.11|10.12|24.12|1:|0|1000|2000|3000|4000&chxp=0,25.53,55.32,85.11&chd=e:-Q7J7D8d8S5v5V5U5R5T5X5A5A414t4p4l4i4W4O4M4G4B4C323v3q232y2v2q2l2g2a2V2S2L2H2G1v1t1q1O1H1Eu0o3o0)

(http://chart.googleapis.com/chart?chf=bg,s,FFFFFF00&cht=bvs&chs=230x160&chco=D5DF3D&chbh=3,1,0&chg=14.89,20,1,5,11.46&chds=0,25&chxt=x,y&chxl=0:|26.11|10.12|24.12|1:|0|5|10|15|20|25&chxp=0,26.1,55.33,84.56&chd=s:661wpnnniiiiiiiaaaVVYVVTROMMMHHCC______________A)


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: ajax34i on December 31, 2012, 06:51:20 PM
Some possibly-related evenews24.com article (http://evenews24.com/2012/12/30/blackwater-usa-inc-leaving-a-to-join-pandemic-legion/).


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Comstar on December 31, 2012, 10:52:22 PM
Did they retreat to Stain like they always did, or is this the end?


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Gets on January 01, 2013, 06:40:32 AM
So far the only new thing I've found in the game are some skills I deemed worthless from their description and a "safety" button that doesn't do anything except change color.

CCP seems to cater to the high-sec dwellers with their new features while the interesting content like war, politics and space-jousting is produced by nullsec players. If they'd at least add Treaties it would be a huge boost to "cool stuff going on", but personally I think they're just not capable of making actual video games.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: tgr on January 01, 2013, 07:43:08 AM
You say they're catering to the hisec dwellers, and at first glance you would appear to be right. Looking closer, however, one thing strikes me as interesting. They've got things like the safety button (which interestingly refused to keep state initially, not sure about now), crimewatch's suspect status and the killrights' use thereof, all to basically try to reduce the "rampant ganking/griefing" of hisec ... and then you've got how the new bounties are basically being used as a grief tool. People with f.ex 5.81 sec status are bitching up a storm on eve-o about how unfair it is that people can actually put a bounty on them, because they're obviously so law-abiding that they should be impervious to such annoyances!


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: ajax34i on January 08, 2013, 05:34:22 PM
So, on Thursday they're patching in the DUST 514 beta testers (http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=74180) to be on the Live (TQ) servers.  Still with NDA for a while (supposedly), but able to chat on the same channels as EVE players.  Extended downtime  and all that.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Sir T on January 08, 2013, 10:40:41 PM
I'm sure that the chats of 01001010010100101010100100101010100101010101010 from the dust players will make perfect sense.  :awesome_for_real:

I remember one time that some macro programmer guy had the bright idea of having his macro programs reply in local, as there was a rumour that one of the ways CCP caught macro-miners was talking in local and if no-one responded they would investigate. So if you said "Hi" they would say hi back. Of course, they didn't figure on other macro players having the same program. So people would pass though systems and say hi and watch local fill up with the bots saying "Hi!" over and over again as they replied to one another.

Didn't last too long for obvious reasons but it was funny while it lasted.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Gets on January 10, 2013, 06:11:06 AM
Now people playing a terrible game can talk to other people playing another terrible game.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Phred on January 10, 2013, 10:44:27 AM
Misery loves company they say.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Comstar on January 22, 2013, 07:03:34 AM
Unless someone performs a regime change, it looks like the CFC and the HBC will be declaring war.



That's one way to get the game interesting again.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: tgr on January 22, 2013, 07:05:58 AM
Alternatively, everything fizzes out again after a few days or weeks of furious posting, because nobody really wants to wage a sov war on that scale.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Kageru on January 22, 2013, 08:10:06 AM

So is the game down to 2, relatively friendly, mega factions now?

Hopefully dust will be out of NDA soon, I look forward to hearing what game design "innovations" CCP has planned for this one.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: tgr on January 22, 2013, 08:38:25 AM
There's more than 2, but CFC and HBC are the main ones, yes.

This'll never get fixed until they fix the sov system into something which doesn't suck bags of dicks, but there you go.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: MahrinSkel on January 24, 2013, 02:01:37 PM
It's hard to tel from completely outside, but it seems like this fight is more 'we're bored, let's scrap' than the existential 'this galaxy isn't big enough for the both of us' blood feuds of days gone by.  There's nobody else in the game that could be more than a speedbump to either major coalition, and nothing left worth taking.  If anything, the major coalitions almost wish they could give away some of the turf they are squatting.  But nobody wants it.

--Dave


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: tgr on January 24, 2013, 02:09:37 PM
It fizzed out.

There are some posters who are literally crying buckets full because we're not going all out sov warfare, though, and that makes it so worth it. If we can, by sidestepping the sov system entirely and making up our own rules, force CCP to realize that the sov system must be fixed, then that would be an awesome result, too. I've just been bitching about it incessantly for 2+ years.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Kageru on January 24, 2013, 06:12:04 PM

They should have been working on sov before it got to this point. Have there been any comments they realize it needs a rework or are they still playing around with rebalancing ships and dust integration?


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: MahrinSkel on January 24, 2013, 06:49:22 PM

They should have been working on sov before it got to this point. Have there been any comments they realize it needs a rework or are they still playing around with rebalancing ships and dust integration?
I think it's obvious Dust is sucking up all their systems design bandwidth.  Not sure that any Sov changes will really fix it, anyway.  The problem is supercaps, and there's no easy way out of that at this point.

--Dave


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: ajax34i on January 24, 2013, 07:20:09 PM
They've made an announcement (http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=74192) that from now on they will have "themed expansions" where they update a mixture of game systems under the guise of a common theme (as opposed to having a Sov expansion, a high-sec expansion, an FW expansion, etc).

After this announcement (and after the CSM summit), a lot of people asked for the promised Modular POSes, in a thread (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194625&find=unread) that hit 2000 posts in about a day in the CSM forums.  Somewhere in there the devs complain that focusing on a single feature will break CCP and then try to backtrack and explain the whole "themed expansions" plan again.

After that, this week's just been a couple patches that have no patch notes, and we're guessing are actually DUST patches where they had to increase the EVE client version number too.  So yeah they're focused on DUST right now, it's in open beta.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: tgr on January 24, 2013, 11:20:13 PM
[I think it's obvious Dust is sucking up all their systems design bandwidth.  Not sure that any Sov changes will really fix it, anyway.  The problem is supercaps, and there's no easy way out of that at this point.
What's the problem with supercaps? I know it used to be a problem with titans and supers being used to rape subcap fleets, but that hasn't been the problem for a long while now.

No, I'm fairly certain that the main problem with nullsec wars these days is the fact that the sov system is a waterfall style system, where nothing really happens until the 6th or 7th timer (I forget how many there are), at which point you either win the system or you're reset back to square 1.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Gets on January 25, 2013, 12:55:26 AM
The problem with supercapitals is people stop logging in once they got their supercapital. Once you're stuck in your spacetomb there's nothing much else to do.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: ajax34i on January 25, 2013, 06:25:45 AM
So how would they fix that?  Let them dock?  Lock them per pilot so they can't be stolen if you eject?  Make it easier to create sitter alts?

I thought every supercap pilot had a sitter alt.  I certainly wouldn't train for a supercap on my main, even though the majority of the skills are duplicates with the regular carrier skills.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Setanta on January 25, 2013, 03:36:25 PM
Just logged in my pure Minmatar. WTF have they done to the ships? The rust look has gone from them, the hound looks like shit - where's it's sails? My Maelstrom is some dirty greyish look and my Vagabond looks like someone beat it with an ugly stick :(

I preferred the old look by a long shot.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: ajax34i on January 25, 2013, 04:55:35 PM
I think they remodeled all of the ships a few expansions ago to go with the increased texture size tech they had.  I think they also decided, at that time, to make T2 ships have same model as their base T1 ship, usually with camo paintjob as the only difference.  There was a complaint thread about the Vagabond so they gave it some transparent "ear" solar panels that the Stabber doesn't have.

Full remodel they haven't done on many ships.  Scorpion is one I know of, and the noob frigates (Reaper).  The other ships are just higher polygon / texture versions.  Well, the Maller looks different.

You probably know, but the game has a model viewer built in.  Show info on any ship, click its picture, and the ship viewer should open.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Kageru on January 25, 2013, 04:59:51 PM
Super-capitals are broken but still a symptom. The combats, sov system and ship progression all encourage players to converge into massive power blocks. Leading to a likely end-game where a very small number of powers hold massive amounts of the most lucrative space which cements their position. While they'll eventually decay the game can be stagnant till that happens, especially since much of the wealth generation of holding space is effectively passive.

I mean from the looks of things the elder powers are fielding fleets full of extremely expensive ships. No novice power coming out of low-sec (if they actually made low-sec have a point) has the numbers, funds or fleet to actually raise an independent flag in null-sec.

But I've seen no signs of them really considering it a problem or one they have any fixes for. Just tinkering at the edges.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: tgr on January 25, 2013, 05:27:03 PM
There's been talk about them tuning the sov system, but doing it in FW first to test out the systems, however what CFC and HBC are doing now (i.e. saying fuck sov warfare, let's setup our own rules in a region, if my interpretation is correct) might force CCP to push it up a bit on the priority list.

But yes, supercapitals are designed for sov warfare, and sov warfare is designed for supercapitals. The fact we're capable of derping around with enough dreads to smugcycle (in fact, we often had more left of the cycle than we'd used) and were almost even capable of just never go into siege in the first place and still save time doesn't detract from this fact.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: JWIV on January 26, 2013, 07:47:03 PM
What's the usual way these days for signing doing BC or Goonswarm proper? A former roommate of mine wants to sign up, and I'd just as soon have them avoid the customary emptying of their bank account. I am both terrible at internet spaceships and no longer playing, so I can't really do the post on forum and vouch thing.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Gets on January 27, 2013, 12:43:44 AM
Your former roommate needs to be sponsored.

Everything about supercapitals is broken; the way you train for them (need a separate account), the way you pay for one (botting), the way you use them (massive supercapital blob). Then after eons of waiting for the perfect opportunity to swing your shiny spacedick around you end up in a laggy unfun clump of shit that literally breaks the server on a different game on a different platform. (http://themittani.com/news/breaking-massive-super-fight-asakai-lowsec)

Delete all supercaps, vote Jack Gates for CSM8.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Kitsune on January 27, 2013, 11:19:34 AM
Yeah,  'former roommate of some guy who used to fly with us but fucked off a while ago' is probably not making it in.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: JWIV on January 27, 2013, 11:44:29 AM
Yeah,  'former roommate of some guy who used to fly with us but fucked off a while ago' is probably not making it in.

Yah, that's what i figured.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Furiously on January 27, 2013, 06:38:14 PM
Your former roommate needs to be sponsored.

Everything about supercapitals is broken; the way you train for them (need a separate account), the way you pay for one (botting), the way you use them (massive supercapital blob). Then after eons of waiting for the perfect opportunity to swing your shiny spacedick around you end up in a laggy unfun clump of shit that literally breaks the server on a different game on a different platform. (http://themittani.com/news/breaking-massive-super-fight-asakai-lowsec)

Delete all supercaps, vote Jack Gates for CSM8.

DBRB knows how to make things fun at least I guess. What did his dog have to say about the night?


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: tgr on January 27, 2013, 06:41:30 PM
Last I checked, boat's dog had been put down.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Furiously on January 27, 2013, 06:47:45 PM
Well... That explains why everything went the way it did, the dog was the best FC Goons had...

I did notice he's playing FTL tonight instead.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: calapine on February 01, 2013, 08:25:43 AM
Awww, Dusties will be the puppies of EVE!
I  just saw some the first time in Ala, with their cute little helmets and being all soldier-like in local: 'Red leader, standing by'  :heart:

One is even talking back...I am asking if they are open for adoption, no takers yet.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: tgr on February 01, 2013, 08:48:22 AM
Can we do planetary bombartment yet? :grin:


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Kitsune on February 01, 2013, 08:54:53 AM
Yes, though it's fairly pointless from the capsuleers' POV.  You get absolutely nothing for the bombardment, and if your team wins on the planet, the effect on the space war is pretty minimal.  I'd be willing to shoot them just for spite, but moving into position to take the shot lets everyone in the system know where you are similar to lighting a cyno, so you can expect company to arrive on your ass in short-ish order.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: ajax34i on February 01, 2013, 01:40:34 PM
I just saw some the first time in Ala, with their cute little helmets and being all soldier-like in local: 'Red leader, standing by'  :heart:

Can you imagine EVE fleet members reporting "standing by" on voice comms?  It's such a non-event to report.
Hey, hey, FC, HEY!  LISTEN!  I AM STANDING BY, OK?  Got that?  It's important.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Sir T on February 01, 2013, 04:28:20 PM
"Setting speed to 53"


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: calapine on February 01, 2013, 08:00:06 PM
I just saw some the first time in Ala, with their cute little helmets and being all soldier-like in local: 'Red leader, standing by'  :heart:

Can you imagine EVE fleet members reporting "standing by" on voice comms?  It's such a non-event to report.
Hey, hey, FC, HEY!  LISTEN!  I AM STANDING BY, OK?  Got that?  It's important.

Well, if you want a serious answer, at leasts it's an attempt at topical, relevant communication. And considering how long DUST has been out its not like they had so much time to practice.

People on ops who constantly had to be reminded to shut up sort of annoyed me. Or why did every scout use a different system of addressing gates and hostile?


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Kageru on February 01, 2013, 08:55:49 PM

What works for a squad of 16 doesn't scale too well into full Eve fleet.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Gets on February 02, 2013, 01:13:26 PM
"Dusties" is the absolute worst name for them. It's on the same level as iskies, toonies, thannies, mommies, scimmis, et al.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: tgr on February 02, 2013, 01:15:39 PM
"Dusties" is the absolute worst name for them. It's on the same level as iskies, toonies, thannies, mommies, scimmis, et al.
And yet, that makes it perfect.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: ajax34i on February 02, 2013, 09:24:45 PM
Well, some people called them something else (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trigga) on several occasions but the ISD put a nix on those posts right quick.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: calapine on February 03, 2013, 11:23:10 AM
Well, some people called them something else (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trigga) on several occasions but the ISD put a nix on those posts right quick.

ha ha. So this is a sort of 'I don't have anything against Dusties as long as they stay among themselves' thing? :grin:


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: calapine on February 03, 2013, 06:27:23 PM
1 guy, undocking his 100 (one hundred) mining barges. At the same time.  :ye_gods: Looks impressive though, and the soundtrack is catchy.  :grin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAoaW0vyKR8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAoaW0vyKR8)


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: tgr on February 04, 2013, 12:48:32 AM
Ah yes, thewis, the guy mittens mentioned on fanfest and the gaming media made sure everyone knew of "was suicidal".

Somehow I can't help but think that maybe he could've had a better time (and probably a cheaper time, too) playing X3 or some other properly advanced resource management game (you know, one of the games which even matrix games would've been hesitant to release :why_so_serious:), since that's basically what he seems to play EVE as, and literally any game would be better for this than EVE.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: calapine on February 04, 2013, 03:08:03 AM
Ah yes, thewis, the guy mittens mentioned on fanfest and the gaming media made sure everyone knew of "was suicidal".

Somehow I can't help but think that maybe he could've had a better time (and probably a cheaper time, too) playing X3 or some other properly advanced resource management game (you know, one of the games which even matrix games would've been hesitant to release :why_so_serious:), since that's basically what he seems to play EVE as, and literally any game would be better for this than EVE.

Oh, this guy is that guy from the mittani fanfest incident? What a small universe.

And well, not sure what the gaming media had to with that, but no one forced Mr. Gianturco to dedicate his public profile as head of CSM during a fanfest to shit on a previously unknown player. On a stage, with a mic in his hand. And that's before even bringing up the subject of someone being possibly suicidal and going "if you want to make this guy ... ..."



Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: tgr on February 04, 2013, 03:23:08 AM
And well, not sure what the gaming media had to with that
Yeah, they had nothing to do with it except
1) they named him specifically, thus increasing the exposure he got.
2) they made it into a huge scandal

Yes, it's easy to put all the blame on the guy who instigated the whole thing, but there's also a lot of blame to be put on the gaming media, because it didn't really explode on the forums until after the gaming media began the feeding frenzy.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Sir T on February 04, 2013, 03:33:48 AM
*Has a lost look on his face* What are we talking about here?


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: calapine on February 04, 2013, 03:48:49 AM
Ahh, that wasn't some drunk off-hand joke made on an after-event party that got tattle-taled by someone.

He stood on stage, in an auditorium, before an audience, and decided to use a pre-prepared power point presentation on a big ass screen to mock someone who writes about his real-life divorce and that he wants to die.


(http://i.imgur.com/YeCy4lI.png)

But yeah, looking at the picture, maybe it would have stayed secret if they found that one snitch in the gallery.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: tgr on February 04, 2013, 04:44:30 AM
But yeah, looking at the picture, maybe it would have stayed secret if they found that one snitch in the gallery.
Is this in any way, shape or form what I said? No, it is not.

Mittens fucked up and said something he shouldn't have. The gaming media made it worse by making a lot of noise about it, by linking the youtube links and by specifically writing the name of the guy who was at the butt of mittens' joke. Together, they made the whole thing a potentially much bigger problem for the guy than if the gaming media hadn't made it into a big fucking deal.

Am I absolving mittens for saying it? No, I am not.
Am I putting all the blame on the gaming media? No, I am not.
Am I putting a large portion of it on the gaming media for creating a feeding frenzy about it? Yes, I am.
Am I putting a large portion of it on mittens for opening up his yap in the first place? Yes, I am.

How much clearer can I make it? I mean, is it so hard to fathom that in an environment where picking on other people (which EVE is), the act of telling everyone "hey guys, this guy said that if you wanted to make someone commit suicide, bug <character name>, isn't this mean?" is effectively telling everyone who absolutely adores trolling people to do exactly that, and maybe, just maybe there should be some sort of interrupt saying "maybe we shouldn't give this so much cover, because giving this much cover would do exactly the opposite of what would be right"?


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Zetor on February 04, 2013, 04:53:43 AM
For me the takeaway was that the EVE community (just like any other MMO community) is fucking terrible. But I'm not sure that's news.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Sir T on February 04, 2013, 05:15:16 AM
For me the takeaway was that the EVE community (just like any other MMO community) is fucking terrible. But I'm not sure that's news.

But according to themselves they are the most mature playerbase of any game out there.

Yeah, I didn't believe it even when I was playing.


Title: Re: The new expansion really has everyone buzzing, I see.
Post by: Simond on February 04, 2013, 04:35:38 PM
They mean "smells like old cheese" mature, not emotionally mature.