World War Z

[UnSub]

Is there some pulp appeal I'm missing?

Obviously.

It is a B-grade film, but a satire of the "yay war!" style film full of very good looking people getting slaughtered. Their entire society is pro-war and propaganda focused, meaning they can't see the issue that perhaps if they stayed away from the Bugs, they'd probably could co-exist (but no - the Bugs killed some humans, so let's kill'em all!).

But it is a love it or hate it film. Either you buy into the satire and laugh at SS Doogie Howser, or instead sit aroudn wondering why the humans just didn't use better military tactics.

Verhoeven was a boy during WWII living in the Netherlands and lived through the bombings, seeing houses destroyed and dead bodies being moved around, plus a lot of German military outfits. I believe he's said in the past that he's amazed how pro-war some people he's met in the US are. "Starship Troopers" is coming from those kind of sources.

[Ironwood]

It's all about insulation.  You chaps don't even see the bodies anymore.

I get where he's coming from.

[Merusk]

It's all about insulation.  You chaps don't even see the bodies anymore.

I get where he's coming from.

It's "disrespectful" to show all the coffins en masse before the families can trundle them off to be single units we can dismiss as, "Oh, how sad, but  (s)he was a soldier after all." before flipping over to the evening's entertainment. 

[Ironwood]

Quite.  But beyond this point we enter the forum Which Must Not Be Named.

[Tebonas]

Ok, so I really need to know: What do people actually like about the Starship Troopers movie?

I liked it as a satire of jingoistic pro-war movies, exaggerated to riduculous extremes.

[Selby]

Either you buy into the satire and laugh at SS Doogie Howser,

My friends and I totally did this in the theater when it came out.  Lots of cutting up about Doogie.  Hence I actually enjoyed the film, but mostly because it was a fun overall experience rather than any particular great piece of cinema.

[Lantyssa]

Ok, so I really need to know: What do people actually like about the Starship Troopers movie?

Dizzy.  That's about it.

[Ratman_tf]

Ok, so I really need to know: What do people actually like about the Starship Troopers movie?

I liked it as a satire of jingoistic pro-war movies, exaggerated to riduculous extremes.

I think that's the break. It is for me anyway. I really liked Robocop, but Verhoeven's extremes rub me the wrong way in his other movies. Especially ST, which I found to be on the more stupid side of the stupid action movie scale. Great soundtrack, and Denise Richards is easy on the eyes, as usual, but the rest is too daft to have any fun watching it.
Again, IMO.

[Shannow]

Putting aside my feelings about the twisting of the book, if they do a good job of showing the war in a global context I may enjoy this movie. Always been my biggest want when watching a zombie movie..I want to know more than just whats happening to our intrepid band of survivors in the shopping mall..I want to see what the rest of the world is doing.
I had looked forward to 28 weeks later, but then spent a good portion of the movie critiqueing their zombie defence. So weak!

[Venkman]

Yea that is the part of WWZ I hope they include. As I mentioned, I've had enough of the "survivors, the later years". I want to see the phase as society is crumbling and the governments are adapting.

Obviously.

It is a B-grade film, but a satire of the "yay war!" style film full of very good looking people getting slaughtered. Their entire society is pro-war and propaganda focused, meaning they can't see the issue that perhaps if they stayed away from the Bugs, they'd probably could co-exist (but no - the Bugs killed some humans, so let's kill'em all!).

But it is a love it or hate it film. Either you buy into the satire and laugh at SS Doogie Howser, or instead sit aroudn wondering why the humans just didn't use better military tactics.

Ok, I can see that. He pulled that sort of critique way better in Robocop though. There was real grit, realistic corporate shenanigans if you buy into that future (which decades later I totally can see happening), a real disregard for human life we already all see, and a "force for hope" that had a real sordid origin. It all held together well, and still holds up.

This is why I really don't know howST went so off the rails for me. I think it was just too much smiling. I can appreciate the subject matter of period pieces and wanting to tell the story of desensitization. But the way the story was told was just too clean. Same problem I had with Avatar, which covered some of the same concepts.

[Hawkbit]

And you're singling out I Robot for that ?

Name me a single movie in the last 10 years that didn't have that shit.

Honestly, my bucket of movies I've actually watched in the past 10 years is a whole lot smaller simply because of that shit.  I Robot was one of the most memorable instances because of how blatant it was. 

I know it's everywhere; that's the one I remember the most. 

[DraconianOne]

And you're singling out I Robot for that ?

Name me a single movie in the last 10 years that didn't have that shit.

I, Robot's sin was writing the brand placement into the script. Everyone remembers Converse because there was an entire "character development" scene devoted to taking delivery of a new pair of Converse.

[lamaros]

ST is meant to be clean. It's not gritty anything. It basic b movie fodder. Like Fifth Element, but with satire instead of schmaltz.

[Ironwood]

And you're singling out I Robot for that ?

Name me a single movie in the last 10 years that didn't have that shit.

I, Robot's sin was writing the brand placement into the script. Everyone remembers Converse because there was an entire "character development" scene devoted to taking delivery of a new pair of Converse.

I actually prefer it when they do that.  It's like the bit in Waynes World with the Pizza.  You can laugh and move on.

[Venkman]

ST is meant to be clean. It's not gritty anything. It basic b movie fodder. Like Fifth Element, but with satire instead of schmaltz.

Yes, except Fifth Element was a movie you saw because of casting whereas ST you saw because of the book. Similar to I, Robot, without the title having come from an established brand, very few people would have bothered to see it, and nobody would remember it.

ST missed the mark because what people wanted to see was simply not depicted. Heck, Fifth Element was a better Verhoeven movie than ST if one was looking for kinda-fun-but-cynical futuristic Robocop-esque send up.

[calapine]

ST you saw because of the book.

I really doubt that. I'd say people who watched it because they are Heinlein fans are a very small minority.

[lamaros]

I know we are in a nerd corner of the world, but most people who watched ST would have had no idea about the book.

I've never read it myself either, tbh.

[Venkman]

Wuh? Generic aliens space movies with the most recognizable actors being b-level at the time, and people saw it just because? I do not agree. At $120mm. worldwide gross was less than half of the Full Monty that year. Yea, sure, Titanic also that year, but also the gawdawful Air Force One and the afforementioned (and fantastic) Fifth Element all crushed ST.

I'm quite sure a lot more people have seen it since of course, Netflix and whatnot. But the only groups I remember even talking about this movie 15 years ago were those who either read the book, knew someone who read the book, or knew a guy who knew a guy who walked by the book at some point. And we by then had enough internet that I knew a lot more people than just the guys I was tossing Magic: The Gathering tables at 

[Merusk]

My college roommate saw this with a group of friends on opening weekend just because it was an action movie berift of other action movies on surrounding weekends.  It opened on Nov. 9, 1997.

It was also #1 its opening weekend with a 55% falloff it hit #2 the following weekend and #7 its 3rd.  http://www.the-numbers.com/box-office-chart/daily/1997/11/09

It had a bigger opening weekend than Mortal Kombat: Annihilation, which was #1 the week it was #7 and nearly tied Alien: Resurrection which opened the following week.   

Unless you're telling me that Heinlein fans outnumber folks who went to MK:A and also thronged to see A:R

[DraconianOne]

Yes, except Fifth Element was a movie you saw because of casting whereas ST you saw because of the book. Similar to I, Robot, without the title having come from an established brand, very few people would have bothered to see it, and nobody would remember it.

I'm glad you're here to tell me why I went to see ST because I thought I went to see it because it was a) sci-fi action b) Highlander Bad Guys and c) Phil Tippett was involved in the SFX. I had no idea it was based on a book until the end of the film. Nobody I know went to see it because it was Heinlein - we went to see it because it looked cool. It was cool and I still love it as a film.

Also, comparing it to the Full Monty?

[Hoax]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNhYJgDdCu4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faFuaYA-daw

WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE?

[Venkman]

Wow forgot The Jackal was also 1997. Getting freakin' old.

I'm glad you're here to tell me why I went to see ST because I thought I went to see it because it was a) sci-fi action b) Highlander Bad Guys and c) Phil Tippett was involved in the SFX. I had no idea it was based on a book until the end of the film. Nobody I know went to see it because it was Heinlein - we went to see it because it looked cool. It was cool and I still love it as a film.

Also, comparing it to the Full Monty?

I was telling Lamaros 

Only brought up Full Monty because of box office sales comparison for the year. Slightly different movie than ST.

Looks like I'm in the minority on this. That's cool. There's probably people who hate Hudson Hawk as much as I hated ST, but I rather enjoyed it.

[MahrinSkel]

After having seen what they did to The Puppet Masters, I was just glad that ST didn't completely suck.

--Dave

[lamaros]

ST had a lot of 'big CGI movie' press too. We don't get that much anymore, but CGI was a bit of a novelty then IIRC.

[DraconianOne]

Looks like I'm in the minority on this. That's cool. There's probably people who hate Hudson Hawk as much as I hated ST, but I rather enjoyed it.

Don't worry - I'm in the minority who hated Verhoeven's Total Recall.    

EDIT: and that was nothing to do with whether or not it was like the story it was based on either.  I just thought it was cheap, tacky and stupid.

[Lantyssa]

Wuh? Generic aliens space movies with the most recognizable actors being b-level at the time, and people saw it just because? I do not agree.

It was a sci-fi movie.  With only a little prompting that'll get me to watch any movie.  Back then it was a given.

It really is that simple for many of us.

[Furiously]

Wuh? Generic aliens space movies with the most recognizable actors being b-level at the time, and people saw it just because? I do not agree.

It was a sci-fi movie.  With only a little prompting that'll get me to watch any movie.  Back then it was a given.

It really is that simple for many of us.

With Dina Meyer. Can't leave that part off....

[Teleku]

Yeah, everybody I went with had no idea it was a book (including me).  We just saw the trailer and all decided we wanted to go see the awesome looking action Sci-fi movie that had a hilariously bad name for some reason.

[MediumHigh]

Is there some pulp appeal I'm missing?

Obviously.

It is a B-grade film, but a satire of the "yay war!" style film full of very good looking people getting slaughtered. Their entire society is pro-war and propaganda focused, meaning they can't see the issue that perhaps if they stayed away from the Bugs, they'd probably could co-exist (but no - the Bugs killed some humans, so let's kill'em all!).

Its like welp, someone tossed a nuke from 200 light years away. Obviously someone in technical support just pressed the wrong button, no harm no foul  

Seriously, I can't understand those dissing the film and praising the book (Troopers).

The film is enjoyable and watchable, and no matter how blunt or shallow its political message, it is better than the book's one.

The novel is a rather thin pamphlet (supposedly written within two weeks, to be used in an argument) and reads like a manifesto. It literally consists of 1 chapter action and story (quite entertaining) follow by a chapter of political background on how in a post-war society government broke down and some returning ex-veterans started stringing people up. And that’s how the military government came to begin. Followed by another chapter of story and action. Follow by more blah about how civilians don't really have any 'teeth in the game' in a society and don't 'get it' like military dudes too. Hilarious that part were military government gets justified by saying the civilians one all failed, of course all that in the made up alternative history of the novel.

My memory of the book is that its 2 chapters of action and nothing more. 50% of it was a love letter to basic training and life in the military, 45% of it was the dreaded political discussion, which most people shut their brain off the moment they read "military government" or "civilians don't have the right to vote".

Anyway the ST movie was dumb fun when I watched it a million years ago and for all intent and purposes not "that" bad as a movie adaption of a book. At least the movie tried to be its own animal. Unfortunately in respect to world war z i really, really don't want another shitty survivor story. Its "global" scope has to be translated into film or this is a bust.

[tgr]

Wuh? Generic aliens space movies with the most recognizable actors being b-level at the time, and people saw it just because?

I watched the movie when it came out because "hey, hot chicks and boobs", laughed at all the terrible, terrible jokes, and I didn't even know the book (or the book's author) existed until 1-2 years ago.

[Mrbloodworth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNhYJgDdCu4

/STthread

[MrHat]

So I'm rereading this and it's still stellar.

I really wish they hadn't gone big budget with the movie and instead had a similar style/atmosphere as Waltz With Bashir:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylzO9vbEpPg

[Ratman_tf]

I think the so-called satire in the ST movie went over the heads of most moviegoers. The problem with satire is that it backfires a lot. For instance, I'm sure there's people who think Team America, World Police is a patriotic movie! 

[Furiously]

I think the so-called satire in the ST movie went over the heads of most moviegoers. The problem with satire is that it backfires a lot. For instance, I'm sure there's people who think Team America, World Police is a patriotic movie! 

People who like puppets pooping on other puppets?

[Ironwood]

So, um, New Trailer ?

Utter Shit ?

Ok.