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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  World of Warcraft  |  Topic: It's not you, it's me. 0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: It's not you, it's me.  (Read 186317 times)
Simond
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Reply #315 on: January 18, 2013, 08:43:57 AM

And I'm still waiting for an explanation as to how running dungeons with friends for gear/JP has somehow become impossible.

For one thing JP is generally useless.
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=64607

Oh look, a vendor full of JP gear with no faction requirements.

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Merusk
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Reply #316 on: January 18, 2013, 09:06:56 AM

And I'm still waiting for an explanation as to how running dungeons with friends for gear/JP has somehow become impossible.

For one thing JP is generally useless.
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=64607

Oh look, a vendor full of JP gear that is totally worthless as it's of a lower item level than the blues you get out of heroics with no faction requirements.


So, yeah, JP are pretty pointless.   Also, as previously mentioned unless you get lucky with drops you have no mechanism for gearing.  My rogue has run about 30 dungeons and 8 weeks of Vaults raids and only *just* got the item level to be able to run the Klaxxi raids.  That's not fun.   My hunter is still wearing a blue shoulder because I can't win on the randomizer and there's no VP option.  Also not fun.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Simond
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Reply #317 on: January 18, 2013, 09:25:25 AM

Vendor-sold gear was always supposed to be gap-filling, so being worse than heroic drops is sort of the point. As for not being good enough for raid gear...this started with a comment of "Why can't I just run heroics with friends?" so what do raids have to do with anything?

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Paelos
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Reply #318 on: January 18, 2013, 10:34:43 AM

Vendor-sold gear was always supposed to be gap-filling, so being worse than heroic drops is sort of the point. As for not being good enough for raid gear...this started with a comment of "Why can't I just run heroics with friends?" so what do raids have to do with anything?

Because you glossed over the entire point, and seem to be putting your fingers in your ears. During wrath you could run dungeons, slowly earn points, AND BUY THE FUCKING RAID GEAR.

JP for a bunch of blues? Fuck off with that shit. People are earning these valor points by running dungeons already. They just can't spend them because Blizzard has deemed that prior model needed to be gated by factions.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Rokal
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Reply #319 on: January 18, 2013, 11:15:45 AM

You can use JP to upgrade dungeon blues until 5.2 hits and the upgrade NPC retires (permanently?). JP is pretty useful right now, especially for alts or characters that are trying to reach LFR without VP/rep items.
Draegan
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Reply #320 on: January 18, 2013, 11:19:09 AM

Scenario's were utterly fucking disappointing.

It's not Risk V reward, it's TIME vs reward.

I'm not attacking you just adding to your thought process. The idea of risk at all in a video game is fucking stupid. Fucking neck beard virtual achievers need to quit fucking the fun out of our pixels with that whole risk versus reward bullshit. Give me my treats as my reward for spending time in your shitty virtual world.

Just exchange Risk for Challenge. 
Pennilenko
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Reply #321 on: January 18, 2013, 11:19:52 AM

No, offense Rokal, but I think you and Simond are definitely not ever going to agree with the general arguments here. You guys are the demographic that is responsible for the mindsets that stole the fun from the rest of us.

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
Simond
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Reply #322 on: January 18, 2013, 11:51:29 AM

Nah, I'm not hardcore in any way. I'm just a little tired of some people frantically searching for the Next Big Thing in MMOs coming back to the WoW subforum all butthurt (because their latest crush turned out to be mediocre and dead within a quarter) and then shitting all over the threads here because they've got nothing better to do.

I'm the first to admit that the current setup of factions & dailies is flawed - especially the ten days* worth of Golden Lotus dalies - but the whole "Waaah the grind" melodrama is overdone and in fact I am fairly certain that if MoP unlocked everything the second you dinged 90 some of the exact same people would be sat in here whinging about how there was no content left.

*For your first character, of course. Five days for alts.

Also, speaking of rep: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/251023-i-honestly-hope-blizzard-never-brings-back-rep-tabards/
Quote
For 5.2 you will be able to champion a faction and earn rep with them on your first heroic and scenario of the day
Quote
Also, before I forget, remember that in 5.2, you'll be able to receive Work Orders in Sunsong Ranch from all accross Pandaria, and completing a work order will earn a reputation boost with the issuing faction. So it should help reduce the burden of doing dailies for those of you that don't enjoy them that much :)

So there you all go: ignore dailies and just do 1 heroic + 1 scenario and the Tillers work orders. Some people will need find a new reason to bitch about how they seem to keep coming back to WoW even though they despise it and the dev team.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 11:54:15 AM by Simond »

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Paelos
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Reply #323 on: January 18, 2013, 12:04:26 PM

You're really living in a glass house there Simond, condemning people continually bitching about the same thing over and over and over.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Simond
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Reply #324 on: January 18, 2013, 12:13:07 PM

I'm usually right, though.  awesome, for real

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Paelos
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Reply #325 on: January 18, 2013, 12:27:45 PM

I'm usually right, though.  awesome, for real

You mean you're able to predict failure in the gaming world? Holy shit, I'm surprised you haven't been contacted by Vegas yet to set lines!

It's not special. It's called playing the odds and waiting.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Simond
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Reply #326 on: January 18, 2013, 12:58:02 PM

Yeah, true. It would be more difficult if the industry sucked less, of course.

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Lt.Dan
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Reply #327 on: January 18, 2013, 02:40:27 PM

Actually the big news in 5.2 is that they are reducing the cost of VP items by 25-50%. 50% for 5.0 items and 25% for 5.1 items.
Ironwood
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Reply #328 on: January 18, 2013, 02:47:35 PM

Wood for the fucking trees.

I don't give a shit if they only cost on VP, if I can't get them.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Ingmar
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Reply #329 on: January 18, 2013, 02:51:44 PM

Poster A has a long history of shitting up threads about games he hasn't played.

Poster B has a long list of complaints about a game he's played for 5+ years and sunk hundreds of dollars into, and is now angry about to the point where he repeats himself sometimes.

Poster A tells Poster B to stop shitting the thread up with his complaints.

The only appropriate response to Poster A:

Fuuuuuuuuuuck yooooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #330 on: January 18, 2013, 03:50:33 PM


The only appropriate response to THE INTERNET:

Fuuuuuuuuuuck yooooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Setanta
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Reply #331 on: January 18, 2013, 03:53:18 PM

So you prefer Cataclysm heroics and overall gameplay design to MoP?

Way to put words in a person's mouth. I focussed on the dungeons in that post.

Reading for comprehension is a skill apparently.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
Selby
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Reply #332 on: January 18, 2013, 05:40:47 PM

Because you glossed over the entire point, and seem to be putting your fingers in your ears. During wrath you could run dungeons, slowly earn points, AND BUY THE FUCKING RAID GEAR.

JP for a bunch of blues? Fuck off with that shit. People are earning these valor points by running dungeons already. They just can't spend them because Blizzard has deemed that prior model needed to be gated by factions.
Umm... at launch in Wrath you could only buy blues that weren't that stellar at first too.  You had to hit the token cap (of 2/day) to be able to afford the raid gear (that generally took 25-30 days to get one piece) unless you actually ran the raids and killed bosses, and then could afford to upgrade quicker.  It wasn't until several patch cycles in that the EPICZ came into full swing of being easily affordable by the masses (which is likely coming in the next patch).

Don't get me wrong, upgrading your pants and gating things behind dailies and high faction reps still sucks ass, but Wrath didn't exactly make things easy at first either (fucking Hodir), it took a few patch cycles to work it up to great fun.  I think they are trying to repeat Wrath's cycle of high player retention but are missing the mark and making things too much of a dickpunch.
Fabricated
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WWW
Reply #333 on: January 18, 2013, 06:16:11 PM

Wrath had the benefit of an opening raid tier that was incredibly easy.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Paelos
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Reply #334 on: January 18, 2013, 06:55:33 PM

Poster B has a long list of complaints about a game he's played for 5+ years and sunk hundreds of dollars into, and is now angry about to the point where he repeats himself sometimes.

I do.

I do.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Xanthippe
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Reply #335 on: January 20, 2013, 08:09:48 AM

Nah, I'm not hardcore in any way. I'm just a little tired of some people frantically searching for the Next Big Thing in MMOs coming back to the WoW subforum all butthurt (because their latest crush turned out to be mediocre and dead within a quarter) and then shitting all over the threads here because they've got nothing better to do.


I'm not sure if you're talking about more than one person here, but I think I can speak for some of us when I say that people come back to the WoW forum to complain about WoW because Blizzard used to do things differently than they do now; Blizzard used to behave differently. I liked that Blizzard - the one that was fairly nimble and responsive to players complaints (that was several years ago now). I don't like this Blizzard, the one that tells me that my problem isn't their game, I'm just not playing it right, and other people's accomplishments are more important than my own enjoyment.

Besides, where are people shitting all over threads here? Isn't this the thread for expressing disappointment? If you're happy, why are you reading this thread when it's bound to upset you.
Pennilenko
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Reply #336 on: January 20, 2013, 08:36:57 AM

I think Xanth has a point, if you are totally happy with blizzard and think WoW is peachy keen, this isn't the thread you are looking for...

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
Fordel
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Reply #337 on: January 20, 2013, 10:38:58 AM

Nah, I'm not hardcore in any way. I'm just a little tired of some people frantically searching for the Next Big Thing in MMOs coming back to the WoW subforum all butthurt (because their latest crush turned out to be mediocre and dead within a quarter) and then shitting all over the threads here because they've got nothing better to do.


I'm not sure if you're talking about more than one person here, but I think I can speak for some of us when I say that people come back to the WoW forum to complain about WoW because Blizzard used to do things differently than they do now; Blizzard used to behave differently. I liked that Blizzard - the one that was fairly nimble and responsive to players complaints (that was several years ago now). I don't like this Blizzard, the one that tells me that my problem isn't their game, I'm just not playing it right, and other people's accomplishments are more important than my own enjoyment.

Besides, where are people shitting all over threads here? Isn't this the thread for expressing disappointment? If you're happy, why are you reading this thread when it's bound to upset you.


Umm... Which Blizzard was this?


and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Simond
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Reply #338 on: January 20, 2013, 11:15:03 AM

Nostalgia is corrosive poison.

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Maledict
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Reply #339 on: January 20, 2013, 11:38:44 AM

NIMBLE?

What on earth?

Is this the Blizzard that took 18 months to do an initial balance pass at classes post launch?

Or is it the Blizzard that arbitrarily and oddly nerfed mages at the start of TBC for no apparent reason and then literally waited over a year to remove the nerf despite every bit of evidence showing the nerf wasn't needed in the first place?

Is it the Blizzard that left the horrendous Horde / Alliance disparity in vanilla exist all the way through the vanilla game despite the massive imbalances it was causing?

Blizzard have never, ever ever been nimble. Every expansion comes with promises of faster content delivery, and it never happens. Gross class imbalances are left in place for months and months, if not years, at a time. Players are left to endlessly grind the same content for 6+ months at a time. The only time you can use nimble and Blizzrad together is in the sentence "Blizzard are the opposite of"
Paelos
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Reply #340 on: January 20, 2013, 01:22:12 PM

Class balance is impossible, anybody that hammers Blizzard for that is a loon.

They are not quick on anything, that much is true. They are a slow trundling behemoth that needs to be moved in a direction. Often they know exactly how to fix a problem and can't correct it until months have passed.

If anything I think their PR has gotten worse because they are trying to give people a glimpse into the process now. Before they would just say nothing. The problem is that the glimpse often shows they have people that don't understand their own systems, or they have completely different visions of fun, or they can't anticipate at all how the average player will react to a situation.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Sheepherder
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Reply #341 on: January 20, 2013, 05:04:56 PM

Before they would just say nothing. The problem is that the glimpse often shows they have people that don't understand their own systems...
Quote
Consider the fact that there is one very valuable talent at the first tier of every tree. The other two don't get talked about much, because it is assumed every Warrior takes them, much like Tactical Mastery. A cookie for those that know or can guess what they are.

...

As for 41-point talents, it is quite possible they could be buffed. There are devs playing with 41-point builds now and talents like Endless Rage are seeing a lot more play options than may have been anticipated. If you think this ability might be on the weak side, consider that you are stockpiling rage while it's active, so the majority of cases will see a full rage bar when it's duration runs out.

This was when they were rolling out 2.0.  Good times.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 05:06:59 PM by Sheepherder »
Margalis
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Reply #342 on: January 20, 2013, 06:21:24 PM

"The game is fine you're just playing it wrong" and punishing players for having fun the wrong way is definitely a newish attitude at Blizzard. It's D3 and mid-life WoW Blizzard.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Azazel
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Reply #343 on: January 21, 2013, 03:29:22 AM

"The game is fine you're just playing it wrong" and punishing players for having fun the wrong way is definitely a newish attitude at Blizzard. It's D3 and mid-life WoW Blizzard.

Yeah. I don't consider them to ever have been fast or responsive, but what Margalis said and part of what Xan said are spot on.


I don't like this Blizzard, the one that tells me that my problem isn't their game, I'm just not playing it right, and other people's accomplishments are more important than my own enjoyment.

http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Paelos
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Reply #344 on: January 21, 2013, 07:02:09 AM

Part of Blizzard's issues of late is ego. The other part of it is many of the decisions they've made would have produced a better game in an ideal environment. More challenging content in and of itself is not a bad thing. Nor is the idea of repeatable quests, or guild levels, or faction rewards, or token points.

The problem is always in the unintended consequences of implementation. Blizzard holds fast to these ideas at times because they know they can improve the game, but the playerbase doesn't react the way they want. It's frustrating to them as designers because they think "if they would just do this, it would work so well." Hey, tough shit. They don't want to do it that way, and you should know better than to fight it by now.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Fordel
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Reply #345 on: January 21, 2013, 11:29:05 AM

Not class balance, class philosophy.

Nothing but a warrior should tank, all hybrids are really just healers, except warriors which are also pure DPS.


Then you have the Vanilla content philosophy of "What do you mean you don't like raiding? okay, how about a giant grind to unlock more raids FOR the raiders, you like that right?"



Blizzard has been telling us that we are playing their game wrong for a long long time.


and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Ingmar
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Reply #346 on: January 21, 2013, 11:32:54 AM

It also doesn't help that apparently in everyone's memory, Diablo 2 sprung full-formed into existence with LoD 1.10/1.11 patch level stuff right from the beginning.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Lantyssa
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Reply #347 on: January 21, 2013, 11:37:52 AM

Diablo 2 was fun for me from the start.  Patches and LoD just enhanced that fun, they were never about fixing it.  Maybe others were hardcore enough they felt different.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Selby
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Reply #348 on: January 21, 2013, 02:38:49 PM

Diablo 2 was fun for me from the start.  Patches and LoD just enhanced that fun, they were never about fixing it.  Maybe others were hardcore enough they felt different.
Blizzard screwed with the graphics driver settings on a few of the early patches (1.02 or 1.03) and it really ruined my experience.  I wasn't the biggest fan of D2 honestly, I like D1 so much more and D2 felt like a giant letdown.  It wasn't until LOD 1.10 with the synergies that I actually enjoyed playing it again, but that was like 3-4 years after release...

And seriously, Blizzard hasn't changed their attitude towards the players of WoW in almost 8 years, it's the same story.  "More raids for the hardcore.  What do you mean you don't like raiding?" of Vanilla... some raids of which hardly anyone saw due to how difficult they were to get into or even attuned to.  TBC was not much better, with horrendous chain quests to get into raids and heroics which practically required raid gear to be done without wiping all night.
Setanta
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Reply #349 on: January 21, 2013, 02:56:26 PM

Diablo 2 was fun for me from the start.  Patches and LoD just enhanced that fun, they were never about fixing it.  Maybe others were hardcore enough they felt different.

This ^^. Plus I never had graphics issues after patches (trying to remember if I was using a 3dfx Voodoo or Voodoo 3 card by then). I'd played D1 to death and found that D2 was better. LoD was even better, but I never faulted the original (well except for the Corpse Explosion nerfs on my necro).

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
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